Calvinism is a Cult

SovereignGrace said:

We do not know who the sheep and goats are, so we proclaim the gospel to everyone we can.

I noticed you are exactly one day older than me, as I was born May 1, 1971.

Hi there 'gramps'. Just kidding my friend.

Click to expand...

Ha! Get off my lawn....

So what if some of the sheep are not evangelized?

aspen said:

Ha! Get off my lawn....

So what if some of the sheep are not evangelized?

Click to expand...

That's impossible. See, this is where those who think they understand our theology do not really understand it and lump us in the hyper-Calvinist camp. They hypers believe God will save His elect even if they never hear the gospel. That's erroneous doctrine. Romans 10:8-17, Ephesians 1:13, 1 Corinthians 1:18-21, all show that it takes the word of God to save ppl.

Jesus said He would lose none the Father gave Him.

SovereignGrace said:

That's impossible. See, this is where those who think they understand our theology do not really understand it and lump us in the hyper-Calvinist camp. They hypers believe God will save His elect even if they never hear the gospel. That's erroneous doctrine. Romans 10:8-17, Ephesians 1:13, 1 Corinthians 1:18-21, all show that it takes the word of God to save ppl.

Jesus said He would lose none the Father gave Him.

Click to expand...

So if they are elect they will be saved
To be saved the elect must hear the word of God

Sounds like a contradiction

aspen said:

So if they are elect they will be saved
To be saved the elect must hear the word of God

Sounds like a contradiction

Click to expand...

There is no contradiction my friend. We are all born dead in Adam. You can find this in Romans 5:12. Then the same can be found in 1 Corinthians 15:22. God chose a # of lost, God-hating ppl, that no one can #, and gave them to His Son to redeem. To redeem means to be bought back. Bought back from what? Adam sold us out to sin and Satan when he defied God's one command in the Garden. We can see the first prophecy in the bible And I will put enmity Between you and the woman, And between your seed and her seed; He shall bruise you on the head, And you shall bruise him on the heel.”[Genesis 3:15] Notice the two seeds mentioned...the seed of the serpent(Satan) and the seed of the woman(Eve). Now, these seeds are never mingled, meaning, one does not go from a seed of the woman to a seed of the serpent, and vice versa. The same can be said for the vessels of mercy and wrath. One does not go from an object of wrath to mercy and vice versa.

The sheep are the elect of God who, at birth, are lost. They need to hear the gospel in order to be saved.

aspen said:

So if they are elect they will be saved
To be saved the elect must hear the word of God

Sounds like a contradiction

Click to expand...

"She will bear a Son; and you shall call His name Jesus, for He will save His people from their sins.”[Matthew 1:21] Notice the angel said He will save His ppl, not try to save them, not make them savable and allow them to make an informed decision, but will save them. Now, not everybody whoever lived make up His ppl. We are all His via creation, but only His ppl via salvation.

SovereignGrace said:

Notice the angel said He will save His ppl, not try to save them, not make them savable and allow them to make an informed decision, but will save them.

Click to expand...

And this should be understood in the light of ALL Gospel truth. "His people" are those who become children of God by faith in the Lord Jesus Christ. And He surely saves them from their sins by giving them the gift of eternal life and the gift of the Holy Spirit. "His people" does not mean only the so-called *elect*. This is the false interpretation of Calvinism.

aspen said:

Why would the elect need saving? They are elect, right?

Click to expand...

Amazing that you don't know the answer and think you've stumped others with the above dopiness and incomprehension.

Ephesians 2:3 is just one answer. You probably shouldn't be talking theology or bible on a forum if you don't know this answer already. Drop your surf board dude and pick up your bible bro.

aspen said:

So if they are elect they will be saved
To be saved the elect must hear the word of God

Sounds like a contradiction

Click to expand...

Of course it sounds contradictory to you, but that is due to the fact you hold to less than a rudimentary understanding of God, man, Scripture and the Gospel of Christ. Don't take offense bro, it's just easy to conclude given your statements.

Bro! Stop waxing your board duuuude, read your Bible Barney. Akaw!

aspen said:

Ha! Get off my lawn....

So what if some of the sheep are not evangelized?

Click to expand...

John 6:37.

Preacher4Truth said:

John 6:37.

Click to expand...

This must be an echo...

Preacher4Truth said:

John 6:37.

Click to expand...

This must be an echo...an echo...and echo...an echo...an echo...an echo...

SovereignGrace said:

This must be an echo...an echo...and echo...an echo...an echo...an echo...

Click to expand...

No, it's a Husqvarna...Husqvarna...Husqvarna. Echos are junk.

Preacher4Truth said:

No, it's a Husqvarna...Husqvarna...Husqvarna. Echos are junk.

Click to expand...

Stihl..Stihl...Stihl...Stihl...Stihl...

justbyfaith said:

That sounds too much like Universalism. Would you care to elaborate what you mean by that?



You know it!

Finney (who is not our Lord and Saviour but an effective preacher of His good news) preached not himself but Jesus Christ as Lord, and himself our servant for Jesus' sake.

Click to expand...

Christ knows the elect, and they are His since before time began, and therefore Christ is able to say that all that the Father has given Him will come, because the elect have always belonged to God. If there were not a group of people who belonged to God, He could not give them to Christ.

As for the Finneyism, Finney is in no wise sound in his doctrine, as he stated clearly that the blood of Christ did not save anyone, and he believed that this was heresy. He thought that Christ's blood actually saving people was heresy! This man spread his own hyper-works righteousness gospel that was not the Scriptures.

Enoch111 said:

And this should be understood in the light of ALL Gospel truth. "His people" are those who become children of God by faith in the Lord Jesus Christ. And He surely saves them from their sins by giving them the gift of eternal life and the gift of the Holy Spirit. "His people" does not mean only the so-called *elect*. This is the false interpretation of Calvinism.

Click to expand...

But how could God claim them as His before they had made this decision? And, if they are His because of their choice, how is that not works righteousness? If the only difference between them and the unredeemed is their correct choice, how is this not works righteousness?

Enoch111 said:

And this should be understood in the light of ALL Gospel truth. "His people" are those who become children of God by faith in the Lord Jesus Christ. And He surely saves them from their sins by giving them the gift of eternal life and the gift of the Holy Spirit. "His people" does not mean only the so-called *elect*. This is the false interpretation of Calvinism.

Click to expand...

If faith is a fruit of the Holy Spirit according to Paul in Galatians 5:22, how can it be an attribute of the flesh, which is all we have to work with before the new birth?

Mjh29 said:

Christ knows the elect, and they are His since before time began, and therefore Christ is able to say that all that the Father has given Him will come, because the elect have always belonged to God. If there were not a group of people who belonged to God, He could not give them to Christ.

As for the Finneyism, Finney is in no wise sound in his doctrine, as he stated clearly that the blood of Christ did not save anyone, and he believed that this was heresy. He thought that Christ's blood actually saving people was heresy! This man spread his own hyper-works righteousness gospel that was not the Scriptures.

Click to expand...

Finney was very confused. He denied the atonement of Christ being salvific, then lamented that his "converts" at the end of his run weren't to be found. This after claiming multitudes being "saved" via decision. Part of the problem with his methods was assuring others they were saved because they made a decision. This tells them that no matter what, they're going to heaven.

Preacher4Truth said:

Finney was very confused. He denied the atonement of Christ being salvific, then lamented that his "converts" at the end of his run weren't to be found. This after claiming multitudes being "saved" via decision. Part of the problem with his methods was assuring others they were saved because they made a decision. This tells them that no matter what, they're going to heaven.

Click to expand...

Whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved. Romans 10:13

...and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out. John 6:37b.

From my reading of Finney I do not see him denying the efficacy of the blood...for he preached Christ and Him crucified.

Calvinism is the very doctrine that claims superiority over other doctrines because it offers solid assurance of salvation to its adherents...and yet it condemns the theology of those who are in opposition over the fact that that theology offers real, biblical assurance.

Sounds like a real case of envy to me.

Dave L said:

If faith is a fruit of the Holy Spirit according to Paul in Galatians 5:22, how can it be an attribute of the flesh, which is all we have to work with before the new birth?

Click to expand...

Faith is a fruit of the Spirit for those who are ALREADY BELIEVERS. The context of Galatians is crystal clear. The indwelling Holy Spirit produces the fruit of the Spirit. Also there is a spiritual gift of faith for those who are already believers.

But before He becomes the indwelling Spirit, He must be received as a gift (the gift of the Holy Ghost Himself). And that gift is only received by those who (a) repent and (b) believe on the Lord Jesus Christ (Acts 2:38; 16:30,31 and many other passages).

Therefore saving faith is generated by (1) the POWER of the Gospel unto salvation (Rom 1:16) and (2) the POWER of the Holy Spirit in convincing and convicting sinners (John 16:7-11). And that is why Scriptures says: Today, if ye will hear His voice, harden not your hearts...(Heb 3:7-9)

You keep bringing up "the flesh" mistakenly. The flesh is at enmity with God and has nothing to do with the New Birth. The Holy Spirit overcomes this enmity by convicting and convincing even the vilest sinners, and that is the power of God Himself. So unless you are prepared to meditate on and recognize the power of the Gospel and the power of God in bringing souls to Christ, you will continue to hold a false belief about how the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit bring sinners to the Savior.