Who is Jesus?

amadeus · Jan 21, 2020

bbyrd009 said:
Can’t find two much to disagree with their, and for what it’s worth I know this is a hard thing to learn OK? We are all taught to be Mithraists now, blown about by every wind, don’t know if Jesus is returning or if Jesus is coming back to take us somewhere or yada yada.

“The best cure for Christianity is reading the Bible”

Do you see any a more specific cure in these verses?

"And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;
For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:
Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:
That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive;" Eph 4:11-14

Perhaps the problem is in finding and/or recognizing those ministers both given by God and also working correctly according to that to which He called them. Lots of people bearing the titles of those ministries, but either not having the gift or twisting what they have for selfish reasons.

bbyrd009 · Jan 21, 2020

amadeus said:
Do you see any a more specific cure in these verses?

"And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;
For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:

imo certainly, but i srsly doubt that any of our common definitions for those are correct?
As you more or less end up saying

bbyrd009 · Jan 21, 2020

The wind said:
In the day of judgement Jesus will say to many I never knew you. But if any man love God the same is known of him. And this is the love of God that we keep his Commandments. He that has the Commandments of Christ and keeps them he it is that loves him, and he that loves Jesus loves God.

Yah loves you

bbyrd009 · Jan 21, 2020

Giuliano said:
I agree God didn't need it, but I also can't believe the devil got anything out of it.

it looked like a victory for "him" i guess, until it didnt? Seeing why Jesus' sacrifice to Yah would be a victory for satan ends up being another pointer as to why Jesus did not die for our sins in the manner we are taught
imo

bbyrd009 · Jan 21, 2020

mjrhealth said:
Which one is that ??

lol

Giuliano · Jan 21, 2020

bbyrd009 said:
it looked like a victory for "him" i guess, until it didnt? Seeing why Jesus' sacrifice to Yah would be a victory for satan ends up being another pointer as to why Jesus did not die for our sins in the manner we are taught
imo

I suspect people believe some things without thinking them through.

amadeus · Jan 21, 2020

bbyrd009 said:
imo certainly, but i srsly doubt that any of our common definitions for those are correct?
As you more or less end up saying

Our common definitions, of course, don't need to be correct since ultimately the judgment of those supposedly working as ministers is not ours. However, because we or others don't properly identify all of the ones God has called, who are also striving to do things the way God wants them done, does not mean they don't exist. It may be seldom or never that the real ones are acknowledged by men, but God sees it all. Are the words Paul wrote which I cited true? Did they come from the mouth of God?

"So shall my word be that goeth forth out of my mouth: it shall not return unto me void, but it shall accomplish that which I please, and it shall prosper in the thing whereto I sent it." Isaiah 55:11

Again, we may not be witnesses to all the occurrences, but those who were recipients of the works of such ministers certainly know. That is what happened to me and my family in the early 1970's. One man and his family lived for God before us, perfecting us and edifying us. God is not finished with the work in us yet, but He started it through them.

Give God the glory!

bbyrd009 · Jan 21, 2020

Giuliano said:
I suspect people believe some things without thinking them through.

like thinking Yah needed a sacrifice to make us acceptable to Him?

FollowHim · Jan 22, 2020

bbyrd009 said:
ok, thanks for the comments

are you aware of the diff in satan's and the naive dialectic?

I am aware of different dialectic arguments, but I suspect the one I was referring to you are not.

FollowHim · Jan 22, 2020

bbyrd009 said:
like thinking Yah needed a sacrifice to make us acceptable to Him?

God said we needed a sacrifice to be acceptable to Him, so suggesting this is not part of the gospel means not understanding the gospel.
You cannot have salvation without the atoning sacrifice, and you cannot have cleansing without repentance and faith.

But God hated those who did the ceremonies, and said the words with their lips but meant nothing in their hearts or lifestyle.
It is easy to think sacrifices are not important because of these comments, but to think that is to ignore the commands of God and the cornerstone, Jesus who came to die upon the cross and shed His blood for the forgiveness of sins.

So important is the sacrifice, Jesus says we have to eat His flesh and drink His blood to follow Him.
This is such an odd idea, yet it is still true, because the resolution for sin in our hearts is so difficult to resolve and set right.

Grams · Jan 22, 2020

7
That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus.

8
For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
9
Not of works, lest any man should boast.

bbyrd009 · Jan 22, 2020

FollowHim said:
God said we needed a sacrifice to be acceptable to Him, so suggesting this is not part of the gospel means not understanding the gospel.
You cannot have salvation without the atoning sacrifice, and you cannot have cleansing without repentance and faith.

But God hated those who did the ceremonies, and said the words with their lips but meant nothing in their hearts or lifestyle.
It is easy to think sacrifices are not important because of these comments, but to think that is to ignore the commands of God and the cornerstone, Jesus who came to die upon the cross and shed His blood for the forgiveness of sins.

So important is the sacrifice, Jesus says we have to eat His flesh and drink His blood to follow Him.
This is such an odd idea, yet it is still true, because the resolution for sin in our hearts is so difficult to resolve and set right.

the part i love is how we say all this with such confidence, when maybe the barest hint of a misunderstanding in that direction is in Scripture, but way more vv laying out the truth, that we dont want to read. We need a bloodthirsty, capricious "God" at first i guess, and we need a "sacrifice" to worship, so that is what we get, and that is why you keep playing "nevermind that, what about this" like pretty much every other believer does at first.

We get sold a posthumous trip to "heaven" via Apollos and then we basically become useless to the rest of humanity, just like the Bible says i guess. Which i guess sounds bad to read, but really it is prolly the best way to learn? Ok if/when youre ever done with the nevermindthatwhataboutthis lemme know k.

I have not seen such faith from anyone of Israel

FollowHim said:
God said we needed a sacrifice to be acceptable to Him

if you would just find this v and Quote It pls, ty

bbyrd009 · Jan 22, 2020

Who told you that you were naked?
No son of man may die for another's sins
I said "you are elohim"
Why do you call Me good?
If you then, being evil
even greater things will you do
that they may be one, as we are one

bbyrd009 · Jan 22, 2020

imo dont be letting religious ppl tell you who Jesus is, unless you want Apollos

which lets face it pretty much everyone wants

bbyrd009 · Jan 22, 2020

Grams said:
7
That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus.

8
For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
9
Not of works, lest any man should boast.

grams, i wont be denying Scripture so much as suggesting a diff perspective to read It from, ok. More or less like "stay here for the present" if you get me. So, most of this i would never have even approached someone like you with, ok, but you might reflect upon Who told you that you were naked? in this context, and if you disagree that that is Yah's position today, then you might say why

Grams said:
That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus.

so much for "eternity" being a single "forever" huh?

FollowHim · Jan 22, 2020

bbyrd009 said:
the part i love is how we say all this with such confidence, when maybe the barest hint of a misunderstanding in that direction is in Scripture, but way more vv laying out the truth, that we dont want to read. We need a bloodthirsty, capricious "God" at first i guess, and we need a "sacrifice" to worship, so that is what we get, and that is why you keep playing "nevermind that, what about this" like pretty much every other believer does at first.

We get sold a posthumous trip to "heaven" via Apollos and then we basically become useless to the rest of humanity, just like the Bible says i guess. Which i guess sounds bad to read, but really it is prolly the best way to learn? Ok if/when youre ever done with the nevermindthatwhataboutthis lemme know k.

I have not seen such faith from anyone of Israel

if you would just find this v and Quote It pls, ty

Ok, let us look at things from a different perspective.
I can sacrifice my time and money for a goal. I will do this because I believe in achieving the goal. Sometimes I discover the goal was better than not achieving it, but just posed a set of new goals, as if I had not even started.

Now the cross for me was God declaring in the best way He could His commitment to us if we are prepared to take Him seriously. My best analogy of this was when me son was small, he was on a chair too big for him holding on to the table, above a stone floor. He let to of the table, started to lose balance and fall to the floor. I lept and caught him in time. He then turned round to complain and tell me off for interfering etc. To him there was no danger and nothing to save him from, just dad wading in.

I have met people so emotionally closed off the cost of what it means to choose to die at the hands of ones enemies, to show them a better way, has no impact.

So all I ask, is do you realise the cost Jesus paid and why this is significant, mind blowing, so vast it goes outside our scale of proportion, or even our understanding of either the problem or its solution? It is this realisation that changed my life.

bbyrd009 · Jan 22, 2020

FollowHim said:
So all I ask, is do you realise the cost Jesus paid and why this is significant, mind blowing, so vast it goes outside our scale of proportion, or even our understanding of either the problem or its solution? It is this realisation that changed my life.

look, wadr i fully believed at Jesus died for my sins like 45 years ago, ok? Iow i was pushing what you are now pushing then? I have read the brochure? So no offense meant, ok, but i would ask you to leave off believing as Absolute Truth what the entire rest of the world believes, just for a second, if you would, and contemplate whether you bought into a lie bc the guy you were listening to had charisma, and everyone around you was nodding their heads, if you would pls. Just as a possibility, even, ok?

Bc Jesus did not die for our sins, at least in the manner that we are taught, and i say this because No son of man may die for another's sins, which you can either address or keep with the nevermindthatwhataboutthis. You have been deceived, along with the rest of us, and no, Yah did not need a sacrifice to make you acceptable to Him, as Scripture makes abundantly plain in the vv you keep refusing to address, wadr, just like every other believer does

and not meaning to diminish your (our) first approach to Christ any either, ok? Its just that worshipping Jesus is whacked, and is not following Christ. Apollos has been put in a dress for us, and we call him "Jesus" now. You're going somewhere special after you have died, right? Death, More Abundantly?

FollowHim said:
Ok, let us look at things from a different perspective.
I can sacrifice my time and money for a goal. I will do this because I believe in achieving the goal. Sometimes I discover the goal was better than not achieving it, but just posed a set of new goals, as if I had not even started.

Now the cross for me was God declaring in the best way He could His commitment to us if we are prepared to take Him seriously. My best analogy of this was when me son was small, he was on a chair too big for him holding on to the table, above a stone floor. He let to of the table, started to lose balance and fall to the floor. I lept and caught him in time. He then turned round to complain and tell me off for interfering etc. To him there was no danger and nothing to save him from, just dad wading in.

I have met people so emotionally closed off the cost of what it means to choose to die at the hands of ones enemies, to show them a better way, has no impact.

So all I ask, is do you realise the cost Jesus paid and why this is significant, mind blowing, so vast it goes outside our scale of proportion, or even our understanding of either the problem or its solution? It is this realisation that changed my life.

so iow yes, i do hopefully realize--if not we will see i guess--and this is normally where i would ask why you have quoted me if you dont want to respond to the quote, even though i understand that that does approach a kind of response, denial-as-response, "do you realize," which lets admit is really just another way to play nevermindthatwhataboutthis.

Yes, i realize that expecting Yah (love) to require a sacrifice is pagan and heinous, and not what Christianity is supposed to be about, even as all those who believe that are invited into a better understanding, vis the virgin (that, btw) will be with child

mjrhealth · Jan 23, 2020

so @bbyrd009 you have made another religion, just like all the religions, and like all religions its all about self..
You remember that little self thing I wrote...
So many poured there hearts out to you, and yet you still deny Him. God gave man the freedom to choose, free will, He gives us all the choice, life or death , the smart ones choose life, but so many because of the pride of man, and religion choose death. God sends no man to hell, it is your choice. You are without excuse. and If you think death is a big Joke, Ill get Pia to write her story of how she found out what death is, the complete and utter separation from God.

And who was it that told you. you where naked,

Joh 16:7 Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you.
Joh 16:8 And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment:
Joh 16:9 Of sin, because they believe not on me;

and like Adam and Eve when they discovered their nakedness, you are just hiding from God, as if you could.

FollowHim · Jan 23, 2020

bbyrd009 said:
look, wadr i fully believed at Jesus died for my sins like 45 years ago, ok? Iow i was pushing what you are now pushing then? I have read the brochure? So no offense meant, ok, but i would ask you to leave off believing as Absolute Truth what the entire rest of the world believes, just for a second, if you would, and contemplate whether you bought into a lie bc the guy you were listening to had charisma, and everyone around you was nodding their heads, if you would pls. Just as a possibility, even, ok?

Bc Jesus did not die for our sins, at least in the manner that we are taught, and i say this because No son of man may die for another's sins, which you can either address or keep with the nevermindthatwhataboutthis. You have been deceived, along with the rest of us, and no, Yah did not need a sacrifice to make you acceptable to Him, as Scripture makes abundantly plain in the vv you keep refusing to address, wadr, just like every other believer does

and not meaning to diminish your (our) first approach to Christ any either, ok? Its just that worshipping Jesus is whacked, and is not following Christ. Apollos has been put in a dress for us, and we call him "Jesus" now. You're going somewhere special after you have died, right? Death, More Abundantly?

so iow yes, i do hopefully realize--if not we will see i guess--and this is normally where i would ask why you have quoted me if you dont want to respond to the quote, even though i understand that that does approach a kind of response, denial-as-response, "do you realize," which lets admit is really just another way to play nevermindthatwhataboutthis.

Yes, i realize that expecting Yah (love) to require a sacrifice is pagan and heinous, and not what Christianity is supposed to be about, even as all those who believe that are invited into a better understanding, vis the virgin (that, btw) will be with child

I get what you mean, I think. The picture of God, angry with a bill for repairs needing to be paid, and someone comes in with the work done, so God is happy, seems cartoon and unreal.

Equally substitutional atonement seems distant and very cartoon, something that does not involve me.
There is though another problem. I do not know if you have ever seen this. It is not about external things, but internal things in our hearts, and how we justify ourselves and our behaviour. I will put it in these words, can I trust you? I mean can I trust you with the most precious thing to me and everything I own and am. Can I put everything on you, and know you will deliver, and if you do not it is all lost, blown apart.

How could you show me that you are worthy of that trust and have the ability to deliver what you say? How can you show that nothing here on earth, its powers, temptations, enticements are not stronger than what you are offering? And if I do not know you, what on earth am I getting involved with and why do I care?

Theology is very dry, like ideas in the mouth, but not digestable. What I believe does not come from teachers or theologians but from scripture and the Lord working in my heart. Worshipping Jesus is because I love Him, literally, and would follow Him to my death. These here are but a few sentences, but His truth does transcend anything else I have ever found. God bless you

FollowHim · Jan 23, 2020

bbyrd009 said:
the part i love is how we say all this with such confidence, when maybe the barest hint of a misunderstanding in that direction is in Scripture, but way more vv laying out the truth, that we dont want to read. We need a bloodthirsty, capricious "God" at first i guess, and we need a "sacrifice" to worship, so that is what we get, and that is why you keep playing "nevermind that, what about this" like pretty much every other believer does at first.

We get sold a posthumous trip to "heaven" via Apollos and then we basically become useless to the rest of humanity, just like the Bible says i guess. Which i guess sounds bad to read, but really it is prolly the best way to learn? Ok if/when youre ever done with the nevermindthatwhataboutthis lemme know k.

I have not seen such faith from anyone of Israel

if you would just find this v and Quote It pls, ty

God said we needed a sacrifice to be acceptable to Him

Heb 9:22
In fact, the law requires that nearly everything be cleansed with blood, and without the shedding of blood there is no forgiveness.

Heb 9:28
so Christ was sacrificed once to take away the sins of many people; and he will appear a second time, not to bear sin, but to bring salvation to those who are waiting for him.

bbyfd - it is possible to theorise about faith and build ones own religion, but Christianity is based on scripture and its concepts and teaching. What is taught in churches that reflect scripture represent what is written and is carefully constructed so as to teach its meaning. It would seem to me you have left biblical beliefs for something else. God bless you

1 John 4:10
This is love: not that we loved God, but that he loved us and sent his Son as an atoning sacrifice for our sins.

Who is Jesus?

Well-Known Member

Groper

Groper

Groper

Groper

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Groper

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Groper

Groper

Groper

Groper

Well-Known Member

Groper

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Similar threads