The Dragon in Revelation 12

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TallMan

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What are it's 7 heads and 10 horns?Is theer more than one fulfilment as it seems to be mentioned again in chapters 13 & 17? Rev.17:9 says “The seven heads are seven mountains” i.e. kingdoms, so some say that these are:Egypt, Assyria, Babylon, Media-Persia, Greece, Rome & Papal Rome .. . but was Greece against God & his people?
 

whirlwind

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[quote name='TallMan;73814]What are it's 7 heads and 10 horns? Is theer more than one fulfilment as it seems to be mentioned again in chapters 13 & 17? Rev.17:9 says “The seven heads are seven mountains” i.e. kingdoms' date=' so some say that these are:Egypt, Assyria, Babylon, Media-Persia, Greece, Rome & Papal Rome .. . but was Greece against God & his people?[/QUOTE'] I believe the first beast of [Revelation 13] is a one world system.....Seven nations or seven continents. The world. Mystery Babylon sits on this one world system, a "scarlet coloured beast." Perhaps it is red because Russia and China are communist. China - the leopard. Rusia - the bear.
 

n2thelight

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Dec 24, 2006
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Hello Tallman Hope this helps The first beast [Rev 13:1-10] is the emerging one-world political/religious system that we see gaining strength and power at a breakneck speed in our present generation. This confederacy of all the world's Nations, Educational systems (Media), Monetary systems, and most importantly the Religions will be in effect under the rule of one Governing body. This will make it possible for the antichrist to step in, take the reins, and assume control of most every soul on the planet. This antichrist is the second beast of Revelation chapter thirteen, and he is satan himself, who comes first before Jesus Christ's Second Advent, and he claims to be the True prophesied Messiah. Satan is called variously: the serpent, the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, the son of perdition, the abomination of desolation, the beast, the dragon, death, morning star, lucifer, father of lies, king of ty'-rus, devil, king of babylon, the assyrian, the prince that shall come, the vile person, the prince of the power of the air, beelzebub, and the man of sin.Just too name a few.Now let's take a look at the kingsRevelation 17:7 "And the angel said unto me, Wherefore didst thou marvel? I will tell thee the mystery of the woman, and of the beast that carrieth her, which hath the seven heads and ten horns."This angel is going to tell us the mystery of the woman, the beast, the heads, and the horns. Satan will work differently in this second earth age, than he worked in the first earth age [given in Revelation 12:1-6]. Then the crowns of power was given to the kings that sat over the people, where as in Revelation 13:1-3 we saw that it was the ten agencies of power that wore the crowns of power, not individuals.Revelation 17:8 "The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition: and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is [shall come]."This "beast" was in the Garden of Eden deceiving [beguiling] Eve; he is not here now, for he is in heaven accusing the saints before the throne of God, now. He [Satan] will ascend out of the bottomless pit, as we saw in Revelation 9:1, and 2, and "he will go to perdition", following the judgment at the end of the Millennium kingdom age. "He" spoken of here, is Satan, Satan is the "son of perdition" as recorded in II Thessalonians 2:1-4, and he will be the first Christ to come at the end of this earth age. Revelation 17:9 "And here is the mind which hath wisdom. The seven heads are seven mountains, on which the woman sitteth."The "Mountains" are seven nations, or dominions. They are areas of land, and all seven dominions comprise the entire earth. They will make up Satan's earthly kingdom. A "kingdom" is "a king and his domain". The "woman", or this false religion will sit and rule over all seven of these dominions. "She" is the religion of Satan created by the Kenites, and the eighth verse told us it is Satan [the beast] that will sit over the woman.Revelation 17:10 "And there are seven kings: five are fallen, and one is, and the other is not yet come; and when he cometh, he must continue a short space."There were ten kings at first, but this deals with seven different kings. These seven kings have been over their dominions for some time. There is only one king that Christ has given power over all the earth in the past two thousand years, and that king is Satan. These seven kings represent the seven offices that Satan has held, from the "dragon" in the first earth age, "serpent" in the garden, all the way through this age to the Antichrist at the end of this age. There has been five roles that Satan has and is playing to this date, and Satan is our "accuser" before the throne of God today, but in time he will be right here on earth filling the role of Antichrist, which will be for a very short time. Satan's final role starts shortly, very shortly, with Michael casting him out of heaven [Revelation 12:7]. He will have only five months in his final role of this earth age.Revelation 17:11 "And the beast that was, and is not even he is the eighth, and is of the seven, and goeth into perdition."Remember in verse eight, "he" was the one out of the pit. Satan's "eighth" role is when he goes into perdition. Why, "of the seven"? Because he was over the seven, one entity in all seven positions; and now this eighth is his last. No one except Satan has been judged and sentenced already to perdition, as recorded in Ezekiel 28:18. Revelation 17:12 "And the ten horns which thou sawest are ten kings, which have received no kingdom as yet; but receive power [authority] as kings one hour with the beast."These "ten horns" are ten kings, and all these kings exists at the same time. They are not like the seven kings of the roles of Satan. They do not rule until a specific time, and then they rule for one hour. The beast [Antichrist] must appear first, then their power will be given to them by the Antichrist. This is after the deadly wound has been healed, the ending of the one world political system. This is the "hour of temptation" Jesus speaks of and warned us of seven times. The warnings are given so that we will not follow, or be deceived by this beast in that final hour [of this age]. The elect and the sealed of God will not be tempted in that hour, for they know who the tempter is [Satan].The whole purpose of the endtime tribulation is deception,satan comes in peace not destruction,the detruction comes when Christ arrivesI Thessalonians 5:3 "For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape."
 

whirlwind

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n2thelight;73886]Hello TallmanHope this helps This angel is going to tell us the mystery of the woman said:
the first earth age [given in [/COLOR]Revelation 12:1-6]. Then the crowns of power was given to the kings that sat over the people, where as in Revelation 13:1-3 we saw that it was the ten agencies of power that wore the crowns of power, not individuals.
It certainly helped me. :) I do have questions about the two beasts and, the trumps, woes, etc. and hope to have time to organize my thoughts later today. Hopefully you can help answer the questions. About the above I hi-lighted in blue.... Consider that the first earth age, in which Satan "drew the third part of the stars" is also a type for our present time. In [Rev.12:5] Satan stands before Eve, Mary and all others through which the Savior would come to "devour her child," Jesus. Now...after the Advent of Christ, Satan still "stands before the woman," who is now the body of Christ, to devour her child...her child being the man child, the very elect of end times. They are those Jesus abides in, The Man Child in the man children. Revelation 12:13 And when the dragon saw that he was cast unto the earth, he persecuted the woman which brought forth the man child.He knows he can't touch God's elect, the man child, so he persecutes the church, the woman, that brings them forth. At least he doesn't touch them until they have finished their testimony and then....some shall be killed.
 

Christian Commando

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Nov 8, 2007
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Well, i beg to differ with the interpretation given here about the antichrist- The anti-christ will be the "first" beast in Rev. 13, because he is the one who is the political leader who is eventually killed, incarnated by Satan, revived and makes the world wonder after him. The second beast is the Religious Leader who is a partner of the 1st beast. Why? Rev. 13:11- "And I beheld another beast coming up out of the earth; and he had 2 horns like a lamb, and he spake as a dragon. Now, Rev. declares, the Dragon is Satan. Why? Because, the 1st beast can only do wonderous things in the sight of the dragon. The second beast is shown in Rev. 13, to be around the whole time the 1st beast is, and can exorcise all the same power the 1st beast could. but- The second beast, in v 11, is depicted as having "2 horns as a Lamb"- (imitating Jesus Christ as the "Lamb of God"), but spakes- (speaks), as a "Dragon"- (Satan-deciever). the anti-christ will never be able to gain control over all populations of the earth, representing only the political side of the population. He will need a partner of religious backround, to also decieve the more religious living population. 2nd- God is a Trinity. Therefore, Satan- (Dragon), employs the aide of two partners to create his own "false trinity" to imitate God in another aspect. The 10 horns are 10 Kings Rev. tells us. In Daniel, and King Nebecaneezer's first dream God gave Dan. the interpretation to, a statue, which depicted Babylon as the head of gold, Medes and Persians as the chest and arms of silver, Greece as the lower abdomen and thighs of brass, and Rome as the two legs of iron. Notice tho, the "FEET" now, are also made of "iron" tho mixed with clay, and has 10 toes. As such, this last Gentile governing nation over Isreal, will be a "revived Roman Empire." Scriptures tell us, this "one world Government" will have 10 kings, but it will not be solid, as the Roman Empire was, but have its divisions/weaknesses. But, a "Rock"- (Jesus Christ, who returns bodily to earth, will smash the FEET of that Statue). Not the legs, thighs, waist etc, but the "FEET". now, the 1st beast of Rev. 13, also has "10 horns, plus "10 crowns" upon those horns. And this 1st beast- (anti-christ), will start out being given power in the sight of the dragon. But later is wounded- (as tho it were killed- dead). how can it be revived, except Satan now possesses/incarnates this man to bring him back to life. the 2nd beast cannot be the anti-christ, as Scriptures in Rev. 13, also tells us how the 2nd beast helps to cause more of the world to worship the "1st beast". Satan will never take 2nd place in such a situation. Especially knowing, towards the end of his 7 year reign, the anti-christ actually goes to Jerusalem and sits upon the Temple Throne claiming himself god. I'll add more later. God Bless!!
 

Adstar

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Sep 17, 2009
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Horns represent Kingdoms and their leaders.Beasts represent Empires.The Old Testament gives the key to understanding the Beast of Revelation. The Prophecy given to Daniel makes it as clear as day.In Daniel we read about a two-horned beast, a Ram.“Daniel 8:3I looked up, and there before me was a ram with two horns, standing beside the canal, and the horns were long. One of the horns was longer than the other but grew up later.”The Angel interpreted the vision to Daniel later in the passage.“Daniel 8:2020The ram which you saw, having the two horns--they are the kings of Media and Persia.”Meda and Persia both distinct kingdoms united and both ruled the Meda/Persian Empire (the ram). Now the empire (the Ram) consisted of many more nations than just the Medes and the Persians, But it was only the Medes and the Persians that had the ruling power within the Empire (two horns). The Persian Horn was longer (more powerful) than the other Meda Horn, Persia became more powerful and eventually absorbed its partner Meda and the empire became known as Persia.In this same prophesy the ram was destroyed by a one horned goat.Daniel 8:5“5And as I was considering, suddenly a male goat came from the west, across the surface of the whole earth, without touching the ground; and the goat had a notable horn between his eyes. 6Then he came to the ram that had two horns, which I had seen standing beside the river, and ran at him with furious power. 7And I saw him confronting the ram; he was moved with rage against him, attacked the ram, and broke his two horns. There was no power in the ram to withstand him, but he cast him down to the ground and trampled him; and there was no one that could deliver the ram from his hand.”The Angel interpreted the vision to Daniel later in the passage.Daniel 8:2121And the male goat is the kingdom of Greece. The large horn that is between its eyes is the first king.So the empire of Greece like the empire of Meda Persia had nations that where not Greek under it's control (Goat) But the Greek Empire was controlled by only one Kingdom Greece (One Horn only) . We all know about Alexander the Great and how he destroyed the Persian Empire.So beasts represent Empires.Horns do not represent the number of kingdoms in that empire but they represent the Powers/ nations that have controlling power within that empire.Most empires through history have been single horned Empires. But the final empire will be controlled (for a time) by 10 kingdoms/nations.If you read on in the book of Daniel you will also find the same 10 horned beast detailed as you will read about in the Book of Revelation. And you will see that the final shape of the empire will be controlled by not 10 but only 8 horns.Daniel 77 “After this I saw in the night visions, and behold, a fourth beast, dreadful and terrible, exceedingly strong. It had huge iron teeth; it was devouring, breaking in pieces, and trampling the residue with its feet. It was different from all the beasts that were before it, and it had ten horns. 8 I was considering the horns, and there was another horn, a little one, coming up among them, before whom three of the first horns were plucked out by the roots. And there, in this horn, were eyes like the eyes of a man, and a mouth speaking pompous words.So the little Horn i believe is the anti-christ who will come to power through a small kingdom and will gain direct control over 3 other kingdoms within the 10 kingdoms that are the power behind the beast empire of the end times.All Praise The Ancient Of Days
 

Dragon

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Jun 11, 2007
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This is one of my favorite topics of the Bible. During these tough economic times, I've lost my job (and mabe career) as a personal trainer, and for the last couple of years, I've been taking care of my family and being taken care of by my family, and whatever money I've recieved has gone to the care of the household and we aren't doing too bad. During this time, I have had the time to delve very deeply into the Word of God, it has filled me very greatly.

I've taken a particular interest in the Book of Revelation, and particularly, the Beasts of Revelation 13 and 17. for the last year, and culminating in the last 4 months, I have done an unbelievable amount of research and studying. It's all I do right now. the only thing I've been trying to do is figure this out.

The approach that I've taken is this:

- I observe
- I test
- I repeat
- I demonstrate
- I make predictions

Basically, I use a scientifically based system of thought, to Faith (Belief, trust, loyalty) in the Word of God. Logic is good, and is not an opposition to Faith, especially if you are applying logic to Faith. Therefore, I am not coming up with my own thoughts or the thoughts of man, I am logically studying God's word to see how it is meant to be understood, but I have to only go by what God's word is saying and nothing else, not my own Ideas.

I 1st decided how I was going to study. That's right, I was "thinking about thinking". I think too much actually, and I think it's a problem that I have. But, it's helped me alot. When deciding how I would study this topic, I concluded that there is no private interpretation of the Bible. The Bible interprets it's own symbols. You read the Bible contextually. Alot of people claim to know this, but then they go on big private interpretations of the Bible, trying to figure out things that can't be figured out from reading the Scriptures alone.

Anyway, after studying revelation 13 and 17 for about 2 months, I decided that the way of studying that I was doing (just letting the Bible interpret itself and doing away with all interpretations of religious denominations) was the right way, and I kept at it with that outlook.

So, I went to libraries, staying in the all day, looking at many different study Bibles (KJV) and seeing all of the different interpretations of them and why. I'd read multiple ancient history books from secular authors and study them. I'd do massive amounts of research on ancient newspapers from over 100 years ago to confirm or deny things. Things I can't confirm, I ignore. Every once in a while, I'd come up with a theory based on what I've learned, and then I search (for the 1st time) for the opinions of other scholors, and If I had any predictions that matched what they said on that one topic, I'd keep that, and drop the rest and start all over. A very long process.

See, if person A is arguing and says that person B threw eggs at their house, and person B is arguing and says that person A is lying and that he really threw the eggs at the yard, then you know one thing for sure: Person B threw eggs. Especially if person C knows nothing about the existence of person A or B but is an expert at egg-throwing and says that you use your two middle fingers, and you then find out that person B is also an expert at throwing eggs, never heard of person C, and person A has no idea how to throw eggs, and you ask person A "did person B use two fingers" and person A says "yeah, how did you know that?!".

Likewise, I read alot of secular information that does an awful lot of distorting facts and distorting evidence and distorting information and distorting history. But guess what? none of it works, because unless they are 100% lying about absolutely everything, then sooner or later you'll be able to put two and two together again and will be able to single out the truths from the lies.

I believe that at this point, I've done a good job at it, because I've actually been able to approach subjects that I have NO KNOWLEDGE ABOUT WHATSOEVER and I've been able to actually PREDICT the results of what I should find out if my suspicions about certain things were true, and ofcourse, that's exactly what would happen.

Anyway, after all, after studying through and through, that in regards to the Beasts of Revelation 13 and 17, I believe that at this point, that I've figured it out.

The problem is, is that when sharing my views on this, I don't even know where to begin. It would take about 3 full pages for me to even lay out my theory. If we were to discuss it point by point, it would take bout 15.



Look, I'm no Biblical expert, but I don't think that's necessary in the grand scheme of things. I could definitely be wrong, and I have a few friends that I've spoken to (one is pentecostal and the other is an atheist) that have given arguments against me and have stuck to them at will, but none have given me any arguments that aren't dependent on private interpretations of the Bible. Yes, the Holy Spirit educates us all, but the Holy Spirit will not give us information on things that directly contradict the Bible itself. That doesn't make any sense. If the Spirit gives you something that looks like it's in opposition to the Bible, you can always prove it by showing how the Bible can be interpreted WITH THE BIBLE, and therefor there won't be any big contradiction. But The Holy Spirit would never tell you something that is against the message of the Bible where the Bible doesn't interpret it that way for you as well. the arguments that I've encountered that prove me wrong are ones that ultimately depend on some type of "I think it means this" presupposition.

Anyway, I know I'm still missing alot of info, but I believe that my theory on the Beasts' are just as good as anyone else's.


I'm probably going to come by here and share all of my thoughts and see what we all think about it. I like working from bottom up whan talking about something, and not starting from conclusion down, but, to make it easier, I might just start out with my conclusions first and then work my way down to the premises.
 

Elijah returns

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Dec 16, 2009
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The seven heads and ten horns: Kingdoms and kings Satan has power over. He is the symbolic King of Tyre that is yet to be casted down. What ever arrangement Satan has in Heaven, it is also represented here on the earth.

Below in an extract of Robert Kings essay on Satan's expulsion from Heaven, and it explains this quite clearly:

Now, there is an interesting account in the Hebrew Scriptures that seems to focus on the ouster of Satan from heaven, here I am referring to the 28th chapter of Ezekiel, and of course Ezekiel foretold the downfall of the island kingdom of tire. He spent three chapters discussing various aspects of Tyre's downfall. But in the 28th chapter he connects the king of Tyre, and describes them in a way that obviously pertains to Satan to the devil, for example, in verse 13 he refers to the king of Tyre as existing in the garden of even the garden, the garden of God, and refers to him as the covering cherub, or cherub, that is covering, and of course that's what Satan and I was originally, he was an angel in the garden of Eden, a righteous perfect angel, who became haughty and arrogant and rebelled against God and sought to seduce Adam and Eve to follow him, which he was successful in. So we know that, but what's this connection with the king of tire describing him as if he were saving the devil?

Well, Tyre represents something greater than itself in the Bible, and I've written somewhat on this, Tyre, I feel that represents Great Britain, more specifically the city of London. And London has exercised an empire over the earth for nearly 200 years. London is still the seat of the empire, sentence thrown. Jesus referred to the throne of Satan in that second or third chapter of revelation. So, although Satan exercises his power from the invisible, but nonetheless he has an earthly organization if you will. And it’s interesting at that revelation describes Satan has a seven headed dragon, well it’s no coincidence that there is a seven headed wild beast, because the seven had a wild beast reflects whatever governmental arrangement that Satan has in place in the invisible realm, and this reflected on the earth. So, if Satan has a throne in heaven, he also has a throne on the earth, where he has men under his influence, I won’t say control, I won’t imply that men are demon possessed, they are not, but there persuaded to do think Satan is way, it's his system and he empowers men. So, London is the greater Tyre and that's in that connection then, the downfall of Tyre is also the downfall of the King of Tyre, who in reality is Satan the devil. Let me read to you the 16th and 17th verses, because it seems to speak to the ouster of Satan, and it says, “because of the abundance of your sales goods, they fill the midst of you, (that is Tyre), with violence and you began to sin. And I shall put you as profane out of the mountain of God and I shall destroy you…oh cherub that is covering...from the midst of the fiery stones”. And Verse 17 goes on, “your heart became body because of your beauty, you brought your wisdom to ruin on account of your beaming splendor, (but notice this), on to the earth I will throw you, before kings I will set you, for them to look upon you”, and the latter part of verse 19, it says, “and sudden terrors are what you must to become and you will no more to time indefinite”.

So, the downfall of Tyre coincides with the downfall of this covering cherub, Satan the Devil, and the Scriptures say, “on to the earth I will throw you out of the mountain of God”, (which is the symbol for heaven itself).


This is one of my favorite topics of the Bible. During these tough economic times, I've lost my job (and mabe career) as a personal trainer, and for the last couple of years, I've been taking care of my family and being taken care of by my family, and whatever money I've recieved has gone to the care of the household and we aren't doing too bad. During this time, I have had the time to delve very deeply into the Word of God, it has filled me very greatly.

I've taken a particular interest in the Book of Revelation, and particularly, the Beasts of Revelation 13 and 17. for the last year, and culminating in the last 4 months, I have done an unbelievable amount of research and studying. It's all I do right now. the only thing I've been trying to do is figure this out.

The approach that I've taken is this:

- I observe
- I test
- I repeat
- I demonstrate
- I make predictions

Basically, I use a scientifically based system of thought, to Faith (Belief, trust, loyalty) in the Word of God. Logic is good, and is not an opposition to Faith, especially if you are applying logic to Faith. Therefore, I am not coming up with my own thoughts or the thoughts of man, I am logically studying God's word to see how it is meant to be understood, but I have to only go by what God's word is saying and nothing else, not my own Ideas.

I 1st decided how I was going to study. That's right, I was "thinking about thinking". I think too much actually, and I think it's a problem that I have. But, it's helped me alot. When deciding how I would study this topic, I concluded that there is no private interpretation of the Bible. The Bible interprets it's own symbols. You read the Bible contextually. Alot of people claim to know this, but then they go on big private interpretations of the Bible, trying to figure out things that can't be figured out from reading the Scriptures alone.

Anyway, after studying revelation 13 and 17 for about 2 months, I decided that the way of studying that I was doing (just letting the Bible interpret itself and doing away with all interpretations of religious denominations) was the right way, and I kept at it with that outlook.

So, I went to libraries, staying in the all day, looking at many different study Bibles (KJV) and seeing all of the different interpretations of them and why. I'd read multiple ancient history books from secular authors and study them. I'd do massive amounts of research on ancient newspapers from over 100 years ago to confirm or deny things. Things I can't confirm, I ignore. Every once in a while, I'd come up with a theory based on what I've learned, and then I search (for the 1st time) for the opinions of other scholors, and If I had any predictions that matched what they said on that one topic, I'd keep that, and drop the rest and start all over. A very long process.

See, if person A is arguing and says that person B threw eggs at their house, and person B is arguing and says that person A is lying and that he really threw the eggs at the yard, then you know one thing for sure: Person B threw eggs. Especially if person C knows nothing about the existence of person A or B but is an expert at egg-throwing and says that you use your two middle fingers, and you then find out that person B is also an expert at throwing eggs, never heard of person C, and person A has no idea how to throw eggs, and you ask person A "did person B use two fingers" and person A says "yeah, how did you know that?!".

Likewise, I read alot of secular information that does an awful lot of distorting facts and distorting evidence and distorting information and distorting history. But guess what? none of it works, because unless they are 100% lying about absolutely everything, then sooner or later you'll be able to put two and two together again and will be able to single out the truths from the lies.

I believe that at this point, I've done a good job at it, because I've actually been able to approach subjects that I have NO KNOWLEDGE ABOUT WHATSOEVER and I've been able to actually PREDICT the results of what I should find out if my suspicions about certain things were true, and ofcourse, that's exactly what would happen.

Anyway, after all, after studying through and through, that in regards to the Beasts of Revelation 13 and 17, I believe that at this point, that I've figured it out.

The problem is, is that when sharing my views on this, I don't even know where to begin. It would take about 3 full pages for me to even lay out my theory. If we were to discuss it point by point, it would take bout 15.



Look, I'm no Biblical expert, but I don't think that's necessary in the grand scheme of things. I could definitely be wrong, and I have a few friends that I've spoken to (one is pentecostal and the other is an atheist) that have given arguments against me and have stuck to them at will, but none have given me any arguments that aren't dependent on private interpretations of the Bible. Yes, the Holy Spirit educates us all, but the Holy Spirit will not give us information on things that directly contradict the Bible itself. That doesn't make any sense. If the Spirit gives you something that looks like it's in opposition to the Bible, you can always prove it by showing how the Bible can be interpreted WITH THE BIBLE, and therefor there won't be any big contradiction. But The Holy Spirit would never tell you something that is against the message of the Bible where the Bible doesn't interpret it that way for you as well. the arguments that I've encountered that prove me wrong are ones that ultimately depend on some type of "I think it means this" presupposition.

Anyway, I know I'm still missing alot of info, but I believe that my theory on the Beasts' are just as good as anyone else's.


I'm probably going to come by here and share all of my thoughts and see what we all think about it. I like working from bottom up whan talking about something, and not starting from conclusion down, but, to make it easier, I might just start out with my conclusions first and then work my way down to the premises.