Understanding the 'Little Horn' power of Prophecy in Daniel.

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Phoneman777

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Hearsay, so far on your part. Present the scriptures that backs up your theory of the end times.
I'd prefer a thoughtful explanation rather than a "you're just wrong" response.
Where are the columns of Salt and the beds of sulphur that make the landscape of Babylon similar to what happened in Sodom and Gomorrah? If as you say the ruins of Babylon suffered the same fate as Sodom of Gomorrah one would expect to find the same sort of evidence.
You're confusing "manner of destruction" with Isaiah's description of the "aftermath of destruction" - and this kind of confusion is why you've rejected Historicism.

Babylon will be rebuilt as soon as Sodom and Gomorrah are - which is never.
I have read no evidence that suggest that the landscapes are the same. As for the size of Babylon, that is not clearly recorded. What is recorded in some historical accounts is that the Grecian Empire dismantled all of the utility structures of Babylon and carted them off and rebuilt them throughout the eastern Grecian Empires domain. The people were also taken away and resettled throughout the eastern Grecian Empire. If this is true, then there would be few ruins that could be pointed to that would indicate the extent of Babylon/the Land of the Chaldeans.
Then, why not just believe God when He tells you Babylon will be built as soon as Sodom and Gomorrah is?
You are showing that you are even cherry picking the Historical records as well as the scriptures.
You're showing you don't believe Isaiah who says Babylon is going to lie in ruins as Sodom and Gomorrah.
So like Hobbie you are an SDA adherent and any other proof that shows that you have a flawed understanding are to be ignored.
Hobie and I agree with Isaiah that the aftermath of the destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah will be that of Babylon - perpetual desolation - which shows it's actually you with flawed understanding.
As for you claim that the sanctuary holds the truth, the Sanctuary of the Temple also no longer exists.
"And the temple of God was opened in heaven..."
Since I never claimed that the four winds of heavens equal four kingdoms you are painting a false picture of what I have posted.
My mistake. So many people with wild ideas in here, it's hard to keep track of who's saying what.
What I have consistently stated is that the four winds of heaven are four wicked fallen spiritual entities, namely angels that have rebelled against God who are able to influence people groups, kingdoms, nations and Empires to inhabit their respective domains showing the dominat e characteristic of the four angel beasts.
Cool story, bro, but no where are we told "winds" represent "angels". Do we read about the "four winds standing holding back the four winds of the Earth".
Your list of nations of the Babylonians, Medes Persians, Greek, Roman, English, German, Russian the USA etc. have all inhabited the dominion of the Third beast which has had up to four different regional powers doing its bidding.
I have 3 irrefutable facts which point to Babylon as the "first beast"4
1) A lion with eagles wings was the ancient symbol for Babylon
2) Nebuchadnezzar was made insane 7 years because of his proud heart.
3) Jeremiah and Isaiah refer to Babylon as a "lion"
4) The first "beast" is one singular "kingdom"

The flawed foundation of your entire premise is claiming the first beast is a plurality of kingdoms.
Actually, directly from God's word in the 7th Bowl Judgement and History.
Bowls are still future, according to the prophetic timeline which says the bowls are poured out after the 2,300 Days prophecy expires...so sorry, but no "7th bowl" can be found in history.
Sadly, you are caught up in your misunderstanding of Isaiah 13 re Sodom and Gomorrah and what God was conveying with their respective eventual demise.
What's sad is that you refuse Isaiah's word that the aftermath of Sodom and Gomorrah will be for Babylon.
I have not broached the Antichrist in this thread from memory. Another false red herring argument on your part.
Since you reject Historicism, all that remains is to tell whether you're a Jesuit Preterist or Jesuit Futurist.
Sadly, the reformation father tried to link the Statue prophecy in Daniel 2 with the Daniel 7 beast prophecies when the subject matter of these two prophecies addresses different subject matters.
Now this is the height of redonkulousness. Of course, the chapters are linked. God, like any good teacher, uses the principle of "repetition and enlargement" - He presents the foundational lesson (Dan 2) then repeats it, adding details (Dan 7, 8, 9, Revelation, etc.). The method is supposed to keep us on track, but it seems some are determined to run off the rails.
Daniel 2's Statue prophecy only deal with Nations, kingdoms and Empires that have had and are presently having dominion over the Land of Babylon
Do you not understand that Babylon did not cover the entirety of the Roman Empire? You need to understand that "prophecy moves East to West, starting in Babylon, then moving West to MP, Greece, Rome, all of Europe, and finally the United States "second beast" of Revelation 13 which will force you and everyone else who rejects the truth to bow down to the papacy.
whereas the Daniel 7 Beast prophecies deals with the demonic nature of the wicked fallen heavenly hosts, i.e., angels,
How many times must we tell you that a "beast" is not an "angel"?

"These great beasts, which are four, are four kings (kingdoms)".
"The fourth beast shall be the fourth kingdom".

It is for this reason that I consider that you, as well as many others, have willingly become a good and faithful servant Satan doing his bidding.
I don't know if you're deceived or deliberate in your satanic errors, but that's between you and God. My job is simply to sound the warning: "Come out of her (Babylon), My people, that ye be not partakers of her sins and receive not of her plagues".
 
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Phoneman777

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My beliefs stems from scripture not teachings of those whom I have never read.


1 John 2:18 Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time.
Thanks for proving my point. This verse plainly shows the forerunners of the papacy were in John's day, circulating around, scheming, gearing up for the takeover that happened in 538. Satan is an expert at the long game.
A singular person as AC who shall come. My beliefs are based on scripture.
The Man of Sin is no more a "singular" person than is the "man of God" spoken of by Paul.
 

ewq1938

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Thanks for proving my point. This verse plainly shows the forerunners of the papacy were in John's day, circulating around, scheming, gearing up for the takeover that happened in 538. Satan is an expert at the long game.

The Man of Sin is no more a "singular" person than is the "man of God" spoken of by Paul.

Then you don't understand the difference between singular and plural in language. Antichrist is one person while antichrists are multiple people.
 

Jay Ross

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I'd prefer a thoughtful explanation rather than a "you're just wrong" response.

Unless you provide the scriptural references for your theory it is just your opinion and most opinions are just hearsay

You're confusing "manner of destruction" with Isaiah's description of the "aftermath of destruction" - and this kind of confusion is why you've rejected Historicism.

But I have not rejected Historicism. In fact I have backed up my opinions on when certain prophetic event took place from the historical records. Another false argument on your part.

Babylon will be rebuilt as soon as Sodom and Gomorrah are - which is never.

And you are choosing to reject Historicism when it does not suit or support your POV.

You're showing you don't believe Isaiah who says Babylon is going to lie in ruins as Sodom and Gomorrah.

Another false claim on your part. I have not rejected the methodology of Historicism. It is just that we have a very different understanding of when Babylon will be like Sodom and Gomorrah and be no more. You have assumed that Babylon will be no more like Sodom and Gomorrah when both Isaiah and Jeremiah both tell us that the Land of the Chaldeans will lie devastated and be desolated for a period of two ages after which it will again be filled with people before its final destruction like Sodom and Gomorrah's.

Then, why not just believe God when He tells you Babylon will be built as soon as Sodom and Gomorrah is?

But as you well know, this is a false argument as God has not said that Sodom and Gomorrah will be rebuilt. In the Statue prophecy of Daniel 2, Babylon must still exist when the Rock that comes down out of heaven and strikes the statue on its feet such that it topples and falls to the ground and is ground by this rock to become like chaff on the threshing floor which will be blown away like dust by the wind of the spirit.

"And the temple of God was opened in heaven..."

What just for the elect of the SDA denomination? You are not consistent with your posts and claims.

My mistake. So many people with wild ideas in here, it's hard to keep track of who's saying what.

So, what you are telling me is that you have not integrity when you post and make wildly outrages and false claims against other members. Not a good look for you.

The flawed foundation of your entire premise is claiming the first beast is a plurality of kingdoms.

Another false claim on your part. I never made that claim with respect to the influencer of the first manifestation of the first beast within a people group, kingdom, nation or Empire.

Now this is the height of redonkulousness. Of course, the chapters are linked. God, like any good teacher, uses the principle of "repetition and enlargement" - He presents the foundational lesson (Dan 2) then repeats it, adding details (Dan 7, 8, 9, Revelation, etc.). The method is supposed to keep us on track, but it seems some are determined to run off the rails.

Yes, you are right, some have run off the rails and you are a part of that same crowd.

Do you not understand that Babylon did not cover the entirety of the Roman Empire? You need to understand that "prophecy moves East to West, starting in Babylon, then moving West to MP, Greece, Rome, all of Europe, and finally the United States "second beast" of Revelation 13 which will force you and everyone else who rejects the truth to bow down to the papacy.

What is the basis of this response. A fun fact, the Mede Persian Empire was towards the east from Babylon and yet you claim that it was towards the west of Babylon. You seem somewhat confused with your facts.

As for bowing down to the papacy when the Antichrist is finally released from the Bottomless pit in over 1,000 years from now, I am lost as to how you might even know if this is what will happen. It seems that you have engaged in redonkulousness once again.

How many times must we tell you that a "beast" is not an "angel"?

"These great beasts, which are four, are four kings (kingdoms)".
"The fourth beast shall be the fourth kingdom".

It seems that you hold to a flawed interpretation of the Scriptures. Perhaps you simply should not be attempting to teach anyone based on you lack of understanding.

I don't know if you're deceived or deliberate in your satanic errors, but that's between you and God. My job is simply to sound the warning: "Come out of her (Babylon), My people, that ye be not partakers of her sins and receive not of her plagues".

You can wonder if I am deceived, but there are many on this forum who believe that SDA members are well and truly deceived.

Goodbye.
 
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Phoneman777

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Then you don't understand the difference between singular and plural in language. Antichrist is one person while antichrists are multiple people.
You need to understand that "antichrist" and "antichrists" are used interchangeably - thereby eliminating any distinction between the two.

"For many (plural) deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a (singular) deceiver and an (singular) antichrist."

Paul says there were those who sought to "take the place of Christ" and "draw away disciples after themselves" in his day, which were forerunners to the Antichrist papal system which perfected the practice. They've got YOU, right or wrong?
 
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Phoneman777

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Unless you provide the scriptural references for your theory it is just your opinion and most opinions are just hearsay
I've shown you from Isaiah that Isaiah didn't mean "two ages", right?
But I have not rejected Historicism. In fact I have backed up my opinions on when certain prophetic event took place from the historical records. Another false argument on your part.
Sorry, but Protestant Historicism holds as one of its main tenets the papacy as the Beast, Whore riding the Beast, Man of Sin, Little Horn, etc., so I haven't spoken falsely.
And you are choosing to reject Historicism when it does not suit or support your POV.
You can't call something Protestant Historicism simply because you agree that "prophecy parallels history". The interpretation demands acknowledgement of the papacy as the Antichrist, Beast, Man of Sin, Whore of Babylon, and Little Horn.
It is just that we have a very different understanding of when Babylon will be like Sodom and Gomorrah and be no more. You have assumed that Babylon will be no more like Sodom and Gomorrah when both Isaiah and Jeremiah both tell us that the Land of the Chaldeans will lie devastated and be desolated for a period of two ages after which it will again be filled with people before its final destruction like Sodom and Gomorrah's.
The Bible never says any of that. It says Babylon was to be just as Sodom and Gomorrah - never inhabited, never rebuilt, perpetual destruction.
But as you well know, this is a false argument as God has not said that Sodom and Gomorrah will be rebuilt.
Not a false argument - evidence for why Babylon is never going to be rebuilt, just as God said.
In the Statue prophecy of Daniel 2, Babylon must still exist when the Rock that comes down out of heaven and strikes the statue on its feet such that it topples and falls to the ground and is ground by this rock to become like chaff on the threshing floor which will be blown away like dust by the wind of the spirit.
What we know is that Babylon, MP, Greece, and Rome cannot possibly exist simultaneously in the last days, as seen by the Stone striking only the feet - so, the disappearance of the rest of the statue is symbolic for the passing away of the very memory of them along with their philosophies which have been passed down to each successive kingdom and now sit firmly ensconced in the papal antichrist.
What just for the elect of the SDA denomination? You are not consistent with your posts and claims.
To the contrary, all inconsistency is on your part, friend eg. - Isaiah tells you the aftermath of the destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah will be for Babylon - perpetual desolation - yet, you claim Babylon will be rebuilt.
So, what you are telling me is that you have not integrity when you post and make wildly outrages and false claims against other members. Not a good look for you.
You sure like throwing around that "f" word, dont' you? How about we just stick to the texts and intepretation thereof?
Another false claim on your part. I never made that claim with respect to the influencer of the first manifestation of the first beast within a people group, kingdom, nation or Empire.
Are you waiting for the rise of antichrist in the future?
Yes, you are right, some have run off the rails and you are a part of that same crowd.
Protestant Historicism is the only sensible explanation.
What is the basis of this response. A fun fact, the Mede Persian Empire was towards the east from Babylon and yet you claim that it was towards the west of Babylon. You seem somewhat confused with your facts.
In order for MP to become an empire, it had to attack Lydia (to the West), Egypt (to the West), and Babylon (to the West).

As I said, prophecy moves East to West, not West to East, as you claim.
As for bowing down to the papacy when the Antichrist is finally released from the Bottomless pit in over 1,000 years from now, I am lost as to how you might even know if this is what will happen. It seems that you have engaged in redonkulousness once again.
The papal antichrist will burn up at the Second Coming of Christ, and 1,000 years later at the Resurrection of the Damned it will rise to judgment along with the rest of the wicked and be cast into the LOF.
You can wonder if I am deceived, but there are many on this forum who believe that SDA members are well and truly deceived.
Now that's rich.

We were the first to herald the soon coming of Jesus and almost 100 years went by before you all got on board.

We keep the Bible Sabbath while you guys keep a day of which you can't find a single verse authorizing Sunday "sacredness".

We were telling the world "Tobacco is a slow, insidious, but most malignant poison" that is "all the more dangerous because its effects are slow and at first hardly perceptible" in a time when you guys were using doctor prescribed cigarettes to "cure" lung ailments; that a high fat diet is deadly, started the breakfast cereal industry to combat the horribly unhealthy staples; we were warning that milk/sugar combinations are dangerous, especially before bed; were the first to scientifically demonstrate the stark difference between plant and animal protein consumption, as well as the benefits and dangers, respectively; we began developing institutions of education and learning so that we are now 2nd only to the incomprehensibly wealthy RCC, and the list goes on and on.

I'd say the world owes a debt of gratitude to the "deceived" SDA church, right or wrong?
 
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ewq1938

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You need to understand that "antichrist" and "antichrists" are used interchangeably - thereby eliminating any distinction between the two.


This is not correct. They are used separately, distinguishing the singular future AC from the current multiple ACs. How could you possibly not understand it as it is presented by John?



"For many (plural) deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a (singular) deceiver and an (singular) antichrist."

Wrong scripture.

1Jn_2:18 Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time.





Paul says there were those who sought to "take the place of Christ" and "draw away disciples after themselves" in his day, which were forerunners to the Antichrist papal system which perfected the practice.

This is not related t6o something that did not yet exist. There were false teachers at all times and they denied Christ was Messiah. Each one is an AC but none are the future AC that did not exist at that time showing there is a difference between all the ACs that existed and one that was coming. Many prophecies speak of this singular person, powerful, against Christ and able to perform miracles.

They've got YOU, right or wrong?

I'm not the one misidentifying and dismissing the coming AC. You see the shadow/similar example (a type) and think you know what AC is but those are never the final fulfillment. The Papacy is the shadow of what's to come but it will be far greater, more devious and AC than anything from the Papacy/RCC.
 

Hobie

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Perhaps you have not understood the Seventh Bowl Judgement in Revelation 16:17-21.

Revelation 16:17-21: - Seventh Bowl: The Earth Utterly Shaken

17 Then the seventh angel poured out his bowl into the air, and a loud voice came out of the temple of heaven, from the throne, saying, “It is done!” 18 And there were noises and thunderings and lightnings; and there was a great turmoil, such a mighty and great turmoil as had not occurred since men were on the earth. 19 Now the great city was divided into three parts, and the cities of the nations fell. And great Babylon was remembered before God, to give her the cup of the wine of the fierceness of His wrath. 20 Then every island fled away, and the mountains were not found. 21 And great hail from heaven fell upon men, each hailstone about the weight of a talent. Men blasphemed God because of the plague of the hail, since that plague was exceedingly great.

Here is what is found on the internet: -

Source: - Historicism (Christianity) - Wikipedia.

As for Sodom and Gomorrah having a 2-age prophecy of being desolated and devastated, that is not found in the scriptures, but Babylon when it is finally receiving God's wrath, then God's wrath will be like the wrath that he poured over Sodom and Gomorrah. This is still a future event. When it will occur is God's determination and His alone.

Goodbye.
[/QUOTE]
All of Revelation goes down the timelines to the end. It repeats itself to show how the church and events and the conflict between God and the devil will be brought to the end. It's shown true by the historical record and all parts show we are at the end..
 

covenantee

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This is not correct. They are used separately, distinguishing the singular future AC from the current multiple ACs. How could you possibly not understand it as it is presented by John?





Wrong scripture.

1Jn_2:18 Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time.







This is not related t6o something that did not yet exist. There were false teachers at all times and they denied Christ was Messiah. Each one is an AC but none are the future AC that did not exist at that time showing there is a difference between all the ACs that existed and one that was coming. Many prophecies speak of this singular person, powerful, against Christ and able to perform miracles.



I'm not the one misidentifying and dismissing the coming AC. You see the shadow/similar example (a type) and think you know what AC is but those are never the final fulfillment. The Papacy is the shadow of what's to come but it will be far greater, more devious and AC than anything from the Papacy/RCC.
Apostate Jesuit Futurist Francisco Ribera expresses his appreciation for your allegiance.
 
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Phoneman777

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This is not correct. They are used separately, distinguishing the singular future AC from the current multiple ACs. How could you possibly not understand it as it is presented by John?
I just proved to you they are used interchangeably. If you choose to ignore it, so be it.
There were false teachers at all times and they denied Christ was Messiah. Each one is an AC but none are the future AC that did not exist at that time showing there is a difference between all the ACs that existed and one that was coming. Many prophecies speak of this singular person, powerful, against Christ and able to perform miracles.
Since "antichrist" and "antichrists" are used interchangeably, what John is telling us is that the "antichrists" which were around in his day were the forerunners of the "antichrist" papal system in Rome that took over the church and later convinced non-catholics to look to the future or past for antichrist - anywhere but at them.
I'm not the one misidentifying and dismissing the coming AC. You see the shadow/similar example (a type) and think you know what AC is but those are never the final fulfillment. The Papacy is the shadow of what's to come but it will be far greater, more devious and AC than anything from the Papacy/RCC.
What's funny is that you Jesuit Futurists have absolutely no idea who the antichrist is but you're absolutely certain you know what the Mark is.

Do any of you ever stand back and reflect on how absolutely ridiculous that is?
 
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Phoneman777

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"Antichrist" means "in place of Christ".

The papacy absolutely fulfills all the identifying marks of Bible prophecy, including their boastful claim that they take the place of Jesus...but sensationalism and cowardice prevent the acceptance of this.

It's more important that the church be entertained with wild ideas about a "Nicolai Carpathia" type antichrist while waiting to be "raptured" so they can safely watch Earth's final moments from celestial cheap seats.
 

Jay Ross

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I've shown you from Isaiah that Isaiah didn't mean "two ages", right?

No, you have shown me your/SDA's interpretation/understanding of Isiaih 13:19 is: -

19 And Babylon, the glory of kingdoms,
The beauty of the Chaldeans' pride,
Will be as when God overthrew Sodom and Gomorrah.

The problem I have your dogmatic POV is that verse 19 does not indicate when this prophecy is applicable.

It is my view that this verse is applicable still to a future time period and has as yet not been fulfilled. From my understanding you are not "right" with your presented POV. Isaiah and Jeremiah both point to a two-age period where Babylon will be left desolated and desolated but you refuse to accept this even though from a historical perspective the evidence clearly shows that this is true.

Sorry, but Protestant Historicism holds as one of its main tenets the papacy as the Beast, Whore riding the Beast, Man of Sin, Little Horn, etc., so I haven't spoken falsely.

But that is the accepted error that many run with. Scripture does not support this premise, nor does it mention the Papacy as being the beast whore riding the beast, Man of Sin Little Horn etc. so from a biblical perspective you have spoken falsely.

You can't call something Protestant Historicism simply because you agree that "prophecy parallels history". The interpretation demands acknowledgement of the papacy as the Antichrist, Beast, Man of Sin, Whore of Babylon, and Little Horn.

That was the desire of the reformation fathers to label the papacy as one of the beasts to demonise the RCC so that they could break free from their dominance over them.

The requirement that "The interpretation demands acknowledgement of the papacy as the Antichrist, Beast, Man of Sin, Whore of Babylon, and Little Horn." is where this theory breaks down. Your attacking of one part of the Church is against scripture.

What we know is that Babylon, MP, Greece, and Rome cannot possibly exist simultaneously in the last days, as seen by the Stone striking only the feet - so, the disappearance of the rest of the statue is symbolic for the passing away of the very memory of them along with their philosophies which have been passed down to each successive kingdom and now sit firmly ensconced in the papal antichrist.

I thought that Daniel 2 said this about the Rock: -

34 You watched while a stone was cut out without hands, which struck the image on its feet of iron and clay and broke them in pieces. 35 Then the iron, the clay, the bronze, the silver, and the gold were crushed together, and became like chaff from the summer threshing floors; the wind carried them away so that no trace of them was found. And the stone that struck the image became a great mountain and filled the whole earth.

Seems like you have a very different understanding of scripture and what it clearly states.

To the contrary, all inconsistency is on your part, friend eg. - Isaiah tells you the aftermath of the destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah will be for Babylon - perpetual desolation - yet, you claim Babylon will be rebuilt.

I am only quoting scripture where Babylon will be remembered once more before God to receive His wrath for what they had done to Isarel.

History confirms that this prophecy was fulfilled in 1926 AD. All that I have done is aligned history to the prophetic word of God.

Previously you stated this: -
Do you not understand that Babylon did not cover the entirety of the Roman Empire? You need to understand that "prophecy moves East to West, starting in Babylon, then moving West to MP, Greece, Rome, all of Europe, and finally the United States "second beast" of Revelation 13 which will force you and everyone else who rejects the truth to bow down to the papacy.

and what you are claiming now is: -
What we know is that Babylon, MP, Greece, and Rome cannot possibly exist simultaneously in the last days, as seen by the Stone striking only the feet - so, the disappearance of the rest of the statue is symbolic for the passing away of the very memory of them along with their philosophies which have been passed down to each successive kingdom and now sit firmly ensconced in the papal antichrist.

To the contrary, all inconsistency is on your part,

I would be happy if that was the case but both you and Habbie know that it is your POV that needs fixing.

You sure like throwing around that "f" word, dont' you?

So you do not like being called out for presenting false doctrine claiming that only the SDA doctrine is right. Many on this forum would disagree on this point but chose to have a quiet life without your dramas.


I do not have time to respond to your garbage at the moment. It is probably time to bow out of correcting your false theories.

Goodbye
 
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Jay Ross

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All of Revelation goes down the timelines to the end. It repeats itself to show how the church and events and the conflict between God and the devil will be brought to the end. It's shown true by the historical record and all parts show we are at the end..
[/QUOTE]

Really, History shows that the seventh bowl judgement has already been fulfilled and that the Sixth Bowl judge, is presently unfolding before us.

But with your current blinkers you cannot see this.

Goodbye
 

covenantee

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Your attacking of one part of the Church is against scripture.
Is this "one part of the Church"?
  1. All the names which in the Scripture are applied to Christ, by virtue of which it is established that He is over the church, all the same names are applied to the Pope.” Robert Cardinal Bellarmine, De Conciliorum Auctoriatate (On the Authority of the Councils) Bk 2, chap. 17
  2. “The pope is of so great dignity and so exalted that he is not mere man, but as it were God, and the vicar of God. He is the divine monarch and supreme emperor, and king of kings. Hence the pope is crowned with a triple crown, as King of heaven and of earth and of the lower regions.” Lucius Ferraris, Prompta Bibliotheca, vol.6, art. “Papa II”
  3. “We hold upon this earth the place of God Almighty.” Pope Leo XIII, in an encyclical letter dated June 20, 1894, The Great Encyclical Letters of Leo XIII, p. 304.
Which part?
 

ewq1938

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I just proved to you they are used interchangeably. If you choose to ignore it, so be it.

Not in the one verse where currently there were many antichrists but a singular AC was yet to come.

Car and cars aren't interchangeable.

Since "antichrist" and "antichrists" are used interchangeably

They aren't. You have created this fallacy so you can deny a singular AC and insert an organization instead. Classic eisegesis driven by doctrinal bias.

.



What's funny is that you Jesuit Futurists have absolutely no idea who the antichrist is but you're absolutely certain you know what the Mark is.


Don't falsely accuse people of being part of a denomination they aren't a part of. Do you want to be accused of being a Jesuit because you accept their teachings about what the mark is?
 

ewq1938

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"Antichrist" means "in place of Christ".

To those reading this is a partial definition. It's the "anti" that can mean in place of but it also can mean opposed to.

1Jn 2:18 Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time.

G500
ἀντίχριστος
antichristos
an-tee'-khris-tos
From G473 and G5547; an opponent of the Messiah: - antichrist.
Total KJV occurrences: 5


G473
ἀντί
anti
an-tee'
A primary particle; opposite, that is, instead or because of (rarely in addition to): - for, in the room of. Often used in composition to denote contrast, requital, substitution, correspondence, etc.
Total KJV occurrences: 22


G473
ἀντί
anti
Thayer Definition:
1) over against, opposite to, before
2) for, instead of, in place of (something)

2a) instead of
2b) for
2c) for that, because
2d) wherefore, for this cause
Part of Speech: preposition
A Related Word by Thayer’s/Strong’s Number: a primary particle
 

covenantee

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1Jn 2:18 Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time.
John informs his readers that a single antichrist is simply hearsay.

He describes the key to recognizing the last time.

It is the presence of not one, but many, antichrists; and they were already extant reality in John's time.

And they continued, and continue, to be reality; to this day.

And will until Christ returns.
 
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Illuminator

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All of Revelation goes down the timelines to the end. It repeats itself to show how the church and events and the conflict between God and the devil will be brought to the end. It's shown true by the historical record and all parts show we are at the end..
True by the historical record? According to who? Your own top SDA scholars have pleaded to make minor edits in The Great Controversy so it wouldn't be so absurd but the leaders wouldn't allow it.

Daniel 2:44 ESV
44 And in the days of those kings the God of heaven will set up a kingdom that shall never be destroyed, nor shall the kingdom be left to another people. It shall break in pieces all these kingdoms and bring them to an end, and it shall stand forever,

Daniel prophesies an earthly kingdom that will never be destroyed. The Church He founded is indestructible. Either that, or Jesus, who promised He would never leave us, took a vacation and came back in 1860. Perhaps Hobie should re-think Daniel.

 
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Brakelite

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I will if you continue this false abuse of other people's beliefs. History only shows the flawed understanding of the reformation fathers.
Does anyone else see the irony in the above statement?
but it will be far greater, more devious and AC than anything from the Papacy/RCC.
The papacy has deceived
a 1/4 of the world population sufficiently enough that they are recognised as members.
The Papacy has deceived 90% of non Catholics sufficiently that they no longer recognise who she is, and that includes most of Protestantism.
The Papacy has deceived 95% of the political world into believing the Pope has the world's best interests at heart, and is merely a lovely old man who writes a lot.
The Papacy is soon to deceive the rest of the planet, and in the name of the papacy his trusted sidekick, fallen apostate American Protestantism, will
KJV Revelation 13:12-17
12 exerciseth all the power of the first beast before him, and causeth the earth and them which dwell therein to worship the first beast, whose deadly wound was healed.
13 And he doeth great wonders, so that he maketh fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men,
14 And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast, which had the wound by a sword, and did live.
15 And he had power to give life unto the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak, and cause that as many as would not worship the image of the beast should be killed.
16 And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads:
17 And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of hi
s name.


Your attacking of one part of the Church is against scripture.
The Antichrist is not a part of the church, although it originated there.
To those reading this is a partial definition. It's the "anti" that can mean in place of but it also can mean opposed to.
It means both. It isn't one or the other. It opposes Christ by replacing Him.
 

Brakelite

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Everyone demands, and rightly so, that we Adventists ought to have scriptural backing and support for our beliefs. I couldn't agree more. Thing is this. I have posted the following a few times now on various threads on a couple of different sites, and all those who oppose us take to the mountains. Or the bush. Or the desert, I don't know. But they disappear never to be seen or heard from again. I don't know if they run in defeat, or fear or boredom. That isn't the point. It's about truth, the scriptures, and the clear and present danger of a usurper working at taking down Jesus from His rightful place as Lord and Master of His people. Satan despises Jesus, and loathes His people. Revelation reveals his agenda. If you want the truth, here's a Bible study. Let's see who stays the distance.


Dragon/Satan.

His place in heaven (Rev 12:3, 7, 8.)

He has a throne. (Rev 13:2; 2:13)

Gives throne, power, and authority to sea-beast. (13:2,4.)

He is worshipped. (13:4a)

Destroyed forever. (20:9,10)


Now compare:


God the Father

Dwelling in heaven (Rev 4, 5)

He has a throne. (4:5; 7:9-15; 19:4)

Gives throne, power and authority to Jesus. (Math 28:18 Rev 2:27; 3:21; chapters 4,5.)

Is worshipped. (Rev 4:10; 15:4)

Lives and reign forever. (4:9; 5:13; 11:15)


The Land-beast or false prophet.

Called the false prophet because he deceives people with regards to religious matters. (16:13; 19:20; 20:10)

Lamb-like. (13:11)

Exercises all authority of sea-beast. (13:12a)

Directs worship to sea-beast. (13:12b,15)

Performs signs. (13:13; 19:20)

Brings fire down from heaven (13:13)

Gives breath/life to beasts image (13:15)

Applies mark of beast. (13:16)


Now compare:

The Holy Spirit

Called the Spirit of truth guiding people. (Jn 16:13 Rev 22:17)

Christ-like, in fact is the very Spirit of Christ. (Jn 14:26; 16:14; Romans 8:9,10)

Exercises authority of Christ (Jn 16:13, 14)

Directs our attention to Christ (Acts 5:29-32)

Fire from heaven at Pentecost (Acts 2)

Instills life to us, the image of Christ, His character. (Romans8:11,29; 2 Peter 1:3,4.)

Applies seal of God. (2 Cor 1:22 Eph 1:13 4:30 Rev 7:3, 4.)



The sea-beast or antichrist.

Comes from water to begin activity. (13:1)

Resembles dragon. (12:13 13:1)

Ten diadems. (13:1)

Ten horns (13:1)

Receives power throne and authority from dragon/Satan. (13:2,4)

42 (prophetic) months of activity in first phase. (13:5)

Was slain (13:3)

Resurrected (13:3)

Receives worship after healing (13:3,4,8)


Now compare:


Jesus Christ

Comes from water to begin ministry (Luke 3:21-23)

Resembles Father (Jn 14:19)

Many diadems (Rev 19:12)

Lamb has 7 horns (5:6)

Receives power throne and authority from His Father (Math 28:18 Rev 2:27 Chapters 4,5)

42 (literal) months of ministry in initial phase. (Gospel of John)

Appeared to be slain (Rev 5:6)

Was "resurrected". (Rev1:18)

Received worship after resurrection (Math 28:17)


The claim is that the papacy is the Antichrist. So how does the papacy match the above sea beast, and how does the Papacy meet the criteria for being a replacement for Christ on earth? A counterfeit?