1 Cor. 15:45-47
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I'm curious, why are you asking this question? It seems like you're a pretty intelligent person, and can understand basic numerical references like first/last and first/second.
Helen
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I'll buy it! You are probably asking a question that you already know the answer to! Ha!
As we were all in the first creation "the Adam man" ...the only other man is the perfect man, Adam/Christ.
On new birth we all moved out of the old first Adam into the Last Man, Christ.
We were "in Adam", now we are " in Christ."
Just two men in God's eyes.
As we were all in the first creation "the Adam man" ...the only other man is the perfect man, Adam/Christ.
On new birth we all moved out of the old first Adam into the Last Man, Christ.
We were "in Adam", now we are " in Christ."
Just two men in God's eyes.
Of course I can understand basic numerical references. And that involves the answer to this question concerning these verses. I am asking because though I have an opinion concerning these verses, I am interested in others, because this question has intrigued me for years.
Stranger
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Well, I have an opinion on these verses that I have considered over the years. I am open to others input.
Yes, we who are born again were in Adam and are now in Christ. But, Christ is not said to be the 'Last Man', as you said. He is the 'Last Adam', and the 'Second Man'. Why?
Stranger
Luk 3:38 Which was the son of Enos, which was the son of Seth, which was the son of Adam, which was the son of God.
who died that day, in the garden of that life of son of God, and was left with the life in the flesh as all other flesh in the earth and sea and air, ashes to ashes and dust to dust. that doesn't mean men don't have souls, but those souls until born again are born into condemnation. hence Jesus being the new Life of the Son of God given to men (meaning new to men and the world, not really new considering the Word of God is of God therefore God not being something new), able to receive via faith because it was A&E's faith (trust and belief) in a judgement other than God's Judgement that resulted in death and condemnation, and now its God's Judgement to accept the faithful or those who believe in the same respect. where men place their trust and belief can be death or eternal life, being restored to the Life given man in the first place that was lost under His Grace and Mercy.
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That all sounds real good....but it doesn't address at all the question of why is Christ called the 'last Adam' and the '2nd Man'? Think a little. Adam is called the 'first Adam' and 'first man'. No problem, right? He is the first Adam and he is the first man. Now, how is Christ the 'last Adam' and '2nd Man'?
I believe Adam is called the first Adam because God sees him as the first representative of the human race. And God calls him the first in that there will be another Adam. Or, another representative of the human race. That other representative will not be called the Second Adam because to do so implies there will be another. And there won't be. The other, Jesus Christ, will be called the Last Adam. So, there are only two representatives of the human race. Adam and Christ. The first Adam and the Last Adam. See (Rom. 5:12-19)
So, Adam is the head of his race. And it is a fallen race due to Adams actions. Thus when Adam fell, his whole race fell with him. Some are really bad in that race. Some are really good in that race. But they are all still in the fallen race. No good thing can they do to get out. There is no way out...until Jesus Christ. Another head of the human race. The Last Adam.
So, just as Adams race suffered due to his actions, so the race of the Last Adam receives the free gift of eternal life through the actions of Jesus Christ. Now the believer has been disconnected from his old head Adam and brought into another race whose Head is Jesus Christ. Some are really good in that race. Some can be not so good or really bad. But they are still in the race whose Head is Jesus Christ. And just like those of Adams race could do no good work to get out of that race, so too, those who are in the race of Jesus Christ cannot get out for any bad work they do. The only work that got them there is the one Jesus Christ did. And the only way one in the first Adam can get into the Last Adam is by faith in Jesus Christ.
Thus Christ died for all. He is the other Adam, the Last Adam. He is the only hope for man to get out of the first Adam. And all one has to do is come to Jesus Christ as their Lord and Saviour. Believe. (Rom. 5:1-2) But if they don't do that, even though Christ died for all, they are still in the first Adam. They are still in their sins. And they cannot be saved. (1Cor. 15:22) Yes in Adam all die. And yes in Christ shall all be made alive. But you must be 'in Christ' the Last Adam. Not in Adam.
Stranger
So, Adam is the head of his race. And it is a fallen race due to Adams actions. Thus when Adam fell, his whole race fell with him. Some are really bad in that race. Some are really good in that race. But they are all still in the fallen race. No good thing can they do to get out. There is no way out...until Jesus Christ. Another head of the human race. The Last Adam.
So, just as Adams race suffered due to his actions, so the race of the Last Adam receives the free gift of eternal life through the actions of Jesus Christ. Now the believer has been disconnected from his old head Adam and brought into another race whose Head is Jesus Christ. Some are really good in that race. Some can be not so good or really bad. But they are still in the race whose Head is Jesus Christ. And just like those of Adams race could do no good work to get out of that race, so too, those who are in the race of Jesus Christ cannot get out for any bad work they do. The only work that got them there is the one Jesus Christ did. And the only way one in the first Adam can get into the Last Adam is by faith in Jesus Christ.
Thus Christ died for all. He is the other Adam, the Last Adam. He is the only hope for man to get out of the first Adam. And all one has to do is come to Jesus Christ as their Lord and Saviour. Believe. (Rom. 5:1-2) But if they don't do that, even though Christ died for all, they are still in the first Adam. They are still in their sins. And they cannot be saved. (1Cor. 15:22) Yes in Adam all die. And yes in Christ shall all be made alive. But you must be 'in Christ' the Last Adam. Not in Adam.
Stranger
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As to Christ being the Second Man, it is much like (Jude 14) says that Enoch was the seventh from Adam. Enoch was not the seventh from Adam, because of Cain. But in the line of the redeemed, the sons of God, Enoch was the seventh from Adam.
So how is Christ the second man when He wasn't the second man? Because God is counting only the race of the redeemed. He is counting only those of His family. And that race is found in Jesus Christ as the Last Adam.
Because Christ is called the Last Adam, that means there will never be another Adam or representative of the human race. But because Christ is called the Second Man, that indicates there will be others to follow. But they will be counted as in Christ.
So Adam was a son of God (Luke 3:38), and the first man, then Christ, The Son of God and second man, then all others who are and will be sons of God are numbered after and in Christ.
It is my opinion that when God told Adam and Eve to 'Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth' that it was always these counted in the Last Adam that God was making reference to. Those who are of Him. But, at the fall, somehow, and I don't know how, another seed line was introduced. And others were now born of Adam and Eve who were not of God.
Stranger
So how is Christ the second man when He wasn't the second man? Because God is counting only the race of the redeemed. He is counting only those of His family. And that race is found in Jesus Christ as the Last Adam.
Because Christ is called the Last Adam, that means there will never be another Adam or representative of the human race. But because Christ is called the Second Man, that indicates there will be others to follow. But they will be counted as in Christ.
So Adam was a son of God (Luke 3:38), and the first man, then Christ, The Son of God and second man, then all others who are and will be sons of God are numbered after and in Christ.
It is my opinion that when God told Adam and Eve to 'Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth' that it was always these counted in the Last Adam that God was making reference to. Those who are of Him. But, at the fall, somehow, and I don't know how, another seed line was introduced. And others were now born of Adam and Eve who were not of God.
Stranger
pia
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Hi, please could you point to a few or a couple of references to where you find that? Then I can read some of the bits before and after, what it says about the second man. I always find it helpful to try and find context or better still , I ask for understanding and wait....
pia
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pia
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Sounds very reasonable. Often wondered about the 'new' humans also, the ones Cain met up with and found a wife with. And of course then there is the tale of the fallen angels mating with women and making yet another type of offspring. So much of our human past is well hidden from us it seems....
pia
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Helen
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I didn't get back here, had to work,and we all know how work can get in the way of life.
I see that you answered these yourself in following threads Ha! Good posts.
Yes, I believe when God said, " Let us make man in our image and likeness "....it started there in The Garden...and has been going on ever since! He is still 'making man'. And , like you post says...God only see two men. He either sees us in the first Adam or us in the last Adam. So Jesus in that respect is the second man, ( Jesus was the fullness and refection of God, and with God from the beginning, Adam was never that.. but..)
I am wondering if outside of that,while Jesus was here on earth showing what Adam 'could have' been, in walk and relationship. We know that Adam was obviously aware of God's presence in the garden...but on top of that we also know that God walked with Adam in the cool of the evening. That was obviously some special manifestation of God to Adam. A special closeness. No maybe forget that, that is a rabbit trail. I have a bad habit of rabbit trailing and rambling.
Enjoyed your posts
and yours too DPMartin.
Helen
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I didn't get back here, had to work,and we all know how work can get in the way of life.
Good posts.
Yes, I believe when God said, " Let us make man in our image and likeness "....it started there in The Garden...and has been going on ever since! He is still 'making man'. And , like you post says...God only see two men. He either sees us in the first Adam or us in the last Adam. So Jesus in that respect is the second man, ( Jesus was the fullness and refection of God, and with God from the beginning, Adam was never that.. but..)
I am wondering if outside of that,while Jesus was here on earth showing what Adam 'could have' been, in walk and relationship. We know that Adam was obviously aware of God's presence in the garden...but on top of that we also know that God walked with Adam in the cool of the evening. That was obviously some special manifestation of God to Adam. A special closeness. No maybe forget that, that is a rabbit trail. I have a bad habit of rabbit trailing and rambling.
Enjoyed your posts
and yours too DPMartin.
I don't mind rabbit trails. So if you so of mind, let me know where you were going with that. When it comes to rabbit trails I feel like brer rabbit.
Stranger
pia
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pia
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Hi 'Stranger'...Had a good prayer, a little study and what not last night, and this morning I saw something I hadn't noticed before. It could also be understood this way.....Jesus became both the last Adam and the 2nd man at the same time, in this way there is no need for another.... The 1st Adam was the first man UNDER condemnation and in his seed we were all born into death and corruption.......... In the last (needed) Adam and THE 2nd, Man, the Son of Man who ended up NOT under condemnation, but JUDGED Righteous, innocent and justified in Gods eyes, and IN HIM, we can stand in His Righteousness, innocence and justification, and in His seed the rest of mankind CAN be born anew into righteous standing with our Father / Creator.....So, He, Jesus would become the only last and 2nd needed.....
Any thoughts?
pia
Well-Known Member
Likewise sweet sister, have a lovely rest in His arms tonight.......Excellent thoughts pia. That blessed me.
I am getting into bed now...and will dwell on those thoughts you shared.
Enjoy your day. Good night from my side of the world!
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