23 major reasons to reject the Premil doctrine!

[Truth7t7]

Zechariah 14 occurred 2000 years ago. Zechariah 14:1 declares, “Behold, the day of the LORD cometh, and thy spoil shall be divided in the midst of thee.”

Hinneh Behold
yowm- day
baa' cometh
la-Yahweh the Lord
wªchulaq divides
shªlaaleek the spoils
bªqirbeek in the midst

This passage and especially its rendering in the King James Version has caused confusion to many Bible students over the years. However, a closer examination of the original dispels a lot of ambiguity surrounding the text. Firstly, the Hebrew does not actually say “the day of the Lord” as the King James Version renders it but ‘a day is coming for the Lord’.

Where did you obtain your Ph.D. in Hebrew/Greek?

Your claim Zechariah 14 took place 2,000 years ago is "False"

Zechariah Chapter 14 depicts the future "Second Coming" day of the Lord, and the "Eternal Kingdom" that follows after this, as you have been shown "Several Times" in your denial

Jesus Is The Lord

(Second Coming/Eternal Kingdom)

Zechariah 14:1-12 below shows the Lords return to earth in fire in final judgement.

(Verse 1) shows "The Day Of The Lord" also seen in 2 Peter 3:10-13 "Fire Judgement" below

(Verse 2) Shows that all nations are gathered for the final battle of armageddon.

(Verses 3-5) shows the Lords return, and his eternal feet touch down on the earthly Mt, of Olives, and in the "Twinkling Of An Eye" 1 Cor 15:52 takes place, in the catching up, resurrection, final judgement by fire, and the New Heavens, Earth, and Jerusalem being revealed for eternity, judgement complete, eternity begins.

(Verses 6-7) Eternal light seen, in the eternal kingdom, Rev 22:1-5

(Verse 8) The river of life is seen, Rev 22:1-5

(Verse 10) The New creation is being revealed, the plain is lifted up.

(Verse 12) "The Day Of The Lord" showing the "Last Day" judgement by the Lords fire, as men are consumed as they stand on their feet, 2 Peter 3:10-13

2 Peter 3:10KJV
10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.

Revelation 22:1KJV
And he shewed me a pure river of water of life, clear as crystal, proceeding out of the throne of God and of the Lamb.

"The Eternal Kingdom"!

Zechariah 14:1-12KJV
14 Behold, the day of the Lord cometh, and thy spoil shall be divided in the midst of thee.
2 For I will gather all nations against Jerusalem to battle; and the city shall be taken, and the houses rifled, and the women ravished; and half of the city shall go forth into captivity, and the residue of the people shall not be cut off from the city.
3 Then shall the Lord go forth, and fight against those nations, as when he fought in the day of battle.
4 And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and there shall be a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south.
5 And ye shall flee to the valley of the mountains; for the valley of the mountains shall reach unto Azal: yea, ye shall flee, like as ye fled from before the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah: and the Lord my God shall come, and all the saints with thee.
6 And it shall come to pass in that day, that the light shall not be clear, nor dark:
7 but it shall be one day which shall be known to the Lord, not day, nor night: but it shall come to pass, that at evening time it shall be light.
8 And it shall be in that day, that living waters shall go out from Jerusalem; half of them toward the former sea, and half of them toward the hinder sea: in summer and in winter shall it be.
9 And the Lordshall be king over all the earth: in that day shall there be one Lord, and his name one.
10 All the land shall be turned as a plain from Geba to Rimmon south of Jerusalem: and it shall be lifted up, and inhabited in her place, from Benjamin’s gate unto the place of the first gate, unto the corner gate, and from the tower of Hananeel unto the king’s winepresses.
11 And men shall dwell in it, and there shall be no more utter destruction; but Jerusalem shall be safely inhabited.
12 And this shall be the plague wherewith the Lord will smite all the people that have fought against Jerusalem; Their flesh shall consume away while they stand upon their feet, and their eyes shall consume away in their holes, and their tongue shall consume away in their mouth.

 

[Truth7t7]

That does not mean that I do not heed the wisdom from those of faith who do have understanding of Hebrew/Greek, and far more education than myself.

Big Smiles!

Jesus Is The Lord

1611 King James Translators

• PATRON
  • King James I
• TRANSLATION OVERSEER
  • Richard Bancroft
• COMMITTEE OF TWO
• COMMITTEE OF REVISERS
• FIRST WESTMINSTER COMPANY
• FIRST CAMBRIDGE COMPANY
• FIRST OXFORD COMPANY
• SECOND CAMBRIDGE COMPANY
• SECOND OXFORD COMPANY
• SECOND WESTMINSTER COMPANY
• TRANSLATOR
  • Thomas Sparke
• PRINTER
  • Robert Barker
• CONTRIBUTORS
  • (Illustrators, Geneologies, Maps, Etc.)
  • John Speed (Genealogies, Map)
  • Cornelis Boel (Artist/Engraver)
  • John More (Map)
  • Renold Elstrack (Engraver)
  • Hugh Broughton (Genealogies)

INTRODUCTION​

At least sixty men were directly involved in the translation of the King James Bible (hereinafter KJB). Most were Translators, while a few were project overseers, revisers and editors. Some served in several roles. Who were these men? What were their backgrounds? What did they share? In what ways were they different? They were a diverse group. While some were born in large cities and towns, most were from small villages scattered throughout England. Several were the children of university graduates, most were not. They were sons of mariners, farmers, school teachers, cordwainers (leather merchants), fletchers (makers of bows and arrows), ministers, brewers, tailors, and aristocrats. All were members of the Church of England, but their religious views ran the gamut. Some were ardent Puritans, others staunch defenders of the religious establishment. Some believed in pre-destination and limited salvation as taught by John Calvin, while others believed in self-determination and universal access to heaven as taught by Jacobus Arminius.

All of the Translators were university graduates. Oxford and Cambridge claimed nearly equal numbers of Translators as alumni. All of the Translators except one were ordained Church of England priests. While several of the Translators had traveled to the Continent, only one had ventured to the New World. Most of the Translators were married men (38 of 60) with families. Most of the Translators spent a significant portion of their career associated with their colleges and universities as fellows, involved in teaching and administration. As fellows, they were not allowed to marry. As a result many delayed marriage until they had established themselves in church office away from the university. When the translation commenced in 1604-1605, the majority of the Translators, 22, were in their forties, 16 men were in their thirties, 15 in their fifties, 3 in their sixties and 3 in their twenties.
One Translator died in his thirties, six in their forties, nineteen in their fifties, sixteen in their sixties, four in their seventies, three in their eighties and one, over one hundred. Nine of the Translators died before the KJB was published in the 1611.

Most of the Translators were in comfortable economic circumstances during and after their time involved in the translation. The association and friendships they developed during the translation project generally advanced their careers. Some of the Translators went on to high church and academic office. Five went on to serve as bishops and two as archbishops.

They all had a familiarity with the ancient languages of Latin, Greek, Hebrew, and often many more. They came on the historical scene at a time when the knowledge of early biblical texts and language was exploding. Such a flowering of interest and expertise was unique. Bible historian, Gordon Campbell, has observed:

The population from which scholars can now be drawn is much larger than in the seventeenth century, but it would be difficult now to bring together a group of more than fifty scholars with the range of languages and knowledge of other disciplines that characterized the KJB Translators. (Bible – The Story of the King James Version 1611-2011 Oxford, Gordon Campbell, Oxford University Press 2010

For such a diverse group, they worked together in harmony during a generally contentious time. They had disagreements, to be sure, but they labored on, year after year. There were no "tell all books" published after the fact. Miles Smith remarked in his preface to the KJB, the Translators "were greater in other men's eyes than in their own, and sought truth rather than their own praise". They approached the task of translation with humility, understanding they were standing on the shoulders of giants like William Tyndale. Believers all, the Translators, according to Smith "craved the assistance of God's Spirit by prayer" as they proceeded in their work.

Though almost all were well known within the religious and academic community of the time, their involvement in the translation went largely unnoticed by the public. Their individual and group effort was not the subject of historical inquiry until many years after the fact. As a result, little information about the process of translation survived. The lives of the Translators and sometimes their very identity became obscured with time. In certain instances, the place of their birth and burial is unknown, and their family circumstance in doubt. Until this anniversary year, few could name even one Translator, let alone sixty. The following brief biographies are written in the hope to shed further light on these men who contributed so much.

 

[Always Believing]

Your continued claims of a Millennial Kingdom on this earth are "False"

Jesus returns in fire and final judgment (The End) as you have been clearly shown

Thanks for talking. I disagree, of course.

You also need to get your prophecy right.

Is the beating to death of all flesh with rod of iron, before the fire?

Or is the rod of iron, the fire itself?

 

[Timtofly]

Perhaps not futurist, but literalist would better describe your biblical view of eschatology?

The future is literal, not symbolic.

 

[Timtofly]

At the second coming there will be no lives prolonged, we shall be either caught up to meet the Lord in the air, or we will be engulfed in the consuming flames that will destroy all that remains alive on the earth at His coming again.

That is the Amil conundrum of finality at the Second Coming. Amil have the Second Coming at the wrong event, just like pre-mill do. Revelation 19 and Armageddon is not the Second Coming. Armageddon is after the prolonged time, after the Second Coming.

There will be a period of time between the Second Coming and Armageddon.

Just like there was a period of time between the baptism of Jesus, the proclaimed first coming and the Cross. They did not happen on the same Day. The Second Coming and Armageddon do not happen on the same Day.

The Day of the Lord is the 1,000 future years, yet to come.

In Amil lingo, the Day of the Lord has been the last 2,000 years, the last day. Except that is two days in "God's non literal time" according to some Amil. A "Day" to the Lord is not literal. The 1,000 years is literal.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

You, WPM, Jeff, RWB, and Coventee, follow reformed preterist eschatology in 70AD fulfillment, you are preterist in your eschatology

No, we are not. You obviously are very stubborn and will just continue to insist on misrepresenting what we believe, so I'm done with you. I don't have any desire to waste my time on children like you.

 

[WPM]

No, we are not. You obviously insist on misrepresenting what we believe, so I'm done with you. I don't have any desire to waste my time on children like you.

That is why most posters probably ignore his (or her) posts: he/she is childish in his/her name-calling.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Perhaps you need to understand Preterism and it's definition, 70AD fulfillment seen in Matthew Chapter 24 is 100% Preterism

We do NOT believe all of Matthew 24 is fulfilled like preterists do. Your pathetic attempts to try to lump us in with those who believe all of Matthew 24 and all of Revelation up to at least Revelation 19 are fulfilled only serves to make you look like a fool who can't tell the difference between what preterists believe and what Amils like me, rwb, WPM, jeffweeder, covenantee and others believe.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

That is why most posters probably ignore his (or her) posts: he/she is childish in his/her name-calling.

Right. I tried to give him another chance, but I see he has not changed at all. I don't need that. I would rather talk to people who are able to respectfully disagree on things.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Wikipedia: Preterism
The term preterism comes from the Latin praeter, which is a prefix denoting that something is 'past' or 'beyond'.[1] Adherents of preterism are known as preterists. Preterism teaches that either all (full preterism) or a majority (partial preterism) of the Olivet Discourse had come to pass by AD 70.

You continually accuse me of being a preterist, but I do NOT believe that all or a majority of the Olivet Discourse had come to pass by AD 70. I only believe that a minority of it came to pass by then. So, by this definition you gave here, I am NOT a preterist. Yet, I feel certain that you will continue to accuse me of being one, anyway, because you're stubborn and childish like that.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

I have nothing to do with Adulterer C.I. Scofield and his false teachings and beliefs as you falsely claim

Oh, you don't like false claims being made about what you believe? That's interesting.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

It would be silly to argue that Christ made no mention of the literal destruction that historical record, not Preterism proves was literally fulfilled between 67-70 AD. Where does Luke refer to Jerusalem as the "holy city"? It was the literal city of earthly Jerusalem that ceased to be holy after Christ came in His Kingdom.

Exactly. In terms of the book of Revelation, all we need to do is look at other references to the holy city to see how to properly identify it in Revelation 11.

Revelation 21:2 I saw the Holy City, the new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride beautifully dressed for her husband.

The holy city and the temple of God referenced in Revelation 11:1-2 are references to the church.

Hebrews 12:22 But you have come to Mount Zion, to the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem. You have come to thousands upon thousands of angels in joyful assembly, 23 to the church of the firstborn, whose names are written in heaven. You have come to God, the Judge of all, to the spirits of the righteous made perfect, 24 to Jesus the mediator of a new covenant, and to the sprinkled blood that speaks a better word than the blood of Abel.

2 Corinthians 6:16 What agreement is there between the temple of God and idols? For we are the temple of the living God. As God has said: “I will live with them and walk among them, and I will be their God, and they will be my people."

Revelation 11:1-2 is describing the church in a figurative way and the "Gentiles" (Greek ethnos - would be better translated as the heathen) who are given the outer court represent those who are not part of the church.

The earthly city and temple were destroyed through the Providence of God in fulfillment of Christ's words "Behold, your house is left unto you desolate." And it shall remain desolate until the last Gentile to be saved comes into the spiritual Kingdom of God, and the Kingdom complete. We are living in the times of the Gentiles and have been since the advent of Christ at Pentecost. When the fullness of the Gentiles come in the "all Israel shall be saved." (Ro 11:25-26) Not an ethnic people, but all people of faith, Israel of God (Gal 6:15-16).

Amen. Well said.

You're comparing apples to oranges. The Revelation was written for the New Covenant Church on earth, including chapter 11, giving both blessings and warnings of what shall come to pass as the Gospel is proclaimed unto all the earth as the spiritual Kingdom of God is being completed by peoples and nations throughout the earth.

Absolutely agree.

 

[WPM]

Oh, you don't like false claims being made about what you believe? That's interesting.

Exactly. That is the only reason I did that.

 

[WPM]

Exactly. In terms of the book of Revelation, all we need to do is look at other references to the holy city to see how to properly identify it in Revelation 11.

Revelation 21:2 I saw the Holy City, the new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride beautifully dressed for her husband.

The holy city and the temple of God referenced in Revelation 11:1-2 are references to the church.

Hebrews 12:22 But you have come to Mount Zion, to the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem. You have come to thousands upon thousands of angels in joyful assembly, 23 to the church of the firstborn, whose names are written in heaven. You have come to God, the Judge of all, to the spirits of the righteous made perfect, 24 to Jesus the mediator of a new covenant, and to the sprinkled blood that speaks a better word than the blood of Abel.

2 Corinthians 6:16 What agreement is there between the temple of God and idols? For we are the temple of the living God. As God has said: “I will live with them and walk among them, and I will be their God, and they will be my people."

Revelation 11:1-2 is describing the church in a figurative way and the "Gentiles" (Greek ethnos - would be better translated as the heathen) who are given the outer court represent those who are not part of the church.


Amen. Well said.


Absolutely agree.

It is like presenting evidence re Daniel 9, antichrist or Matthew 24 to him. He will not address the numerous holes in his argument. His mode of engagement is very similar to most Premils. They duck the contradictions as if they do not exist and keep parroting their taught doctrine.

 

[Truth7t7]

That is why most posters probably ignore his (or her) posts: he/she is childish in his/her name-calling.

Truth7t7 is a "Male", a Spirit filled born again believer of 43 years

No name calling whatsoever as you falsely claim, you believe and teach "Reformed Preterist Eschatology" in 70AD fulfillment "Fact"

You falsely teach Zechariah 14:1KJV (Day Of The Lord) has no relationship to 2 Peter 3:10KJV (Day Of The Lord) "False"

Jesus Is The Lord

 

[Truth7t7]

We do NOT believe all of Matthew 24 is fulfilled like preterists do. Your pathetic attempts to try to lump us in with those who believe all of Matthew 24 and all of Revelation up to at least Revelation 19 are fulfilled only serves to make you look like a fool who can't tell the difference between what preterists believe and what Amils like me, rwb, WPM, jeffweeder, covenantee and others believe.

The preterist reformed gang teaches Daniel's AOD Matthew 24:15, and The Great Tribulation Matthew 24:21 have been fulfilled, this is 100% (Preterist Teaching)

You can deny this all you want, the above mentioned is a fact, no need to mention anything else, those two verses alone, claimed to be fulfilled is 100% (Preterist Teaching)

I believe and teach the verses mentioned above are (Future Unfulfilled) I'm 100% (Futurist)

Jesus Is The Lord

 

[WPM]

Truth7t7 is a "Male", a Spirit filled born again believer of 43 years

No name calling whatsoever as you falsely claim, you believe and teach "Reformed Preterist Eschatology" in 70AD fulfillment "Fact"

You falsely teach Zechariah 14:1KJV (Day Of The Lord) has no relationship to 2 Peter 3:10KJV (Day Of The Lord) "False"

Jesus Is The Lord

I disagree. You are doing the work of the false accuser. You are telling lies about us Amils. When your theology is exposed you refuse to address it, presenting your usual cut-and-paste nonsense instead. Most Amils believe in past, present and future fulfilment of eschatological; predictions. You are so blinkered in your Scoffield doctrine that you cannot even be objective. Leave your Left Behind novels down and start reading the Bible and you might understand better. All you see is future fulfillment. You cannot even acknowledge 2 distinct questions that were asked by the disciples in Matthew 24. That is how blinded you are with Pretrib teaching.

 

[WPM]

The preterist reformed gang teaches Daniel's AOD Matthew 24:15, and The Great Tribulation Matthew 24:21 have been fulfilled, this is (Preterist Teaching)

You can deny this all you want, the above men

We are all Preterist to some degree. I also gladly bear the Reformed title. What a privilege to be connected to them. Your distain of the Protestant Reformers leaves you in the apostate camp of the Romanists.

 

[Truth7t7]

You continually accuse me of being a preterist, but I do NOT believe that all or a majority of the Olivet Discourse had come to pass by AD 70. I only believe that a minority of it came to pass by then. So, by this definition you gave here, I am NOT a preterist. Yet, I feel certain that you will continue to accuse me of being one, anyway, because you're stubborn and childish like that.

Answered post #1176 above

 

[covenantee]

The preterist reformed gang teaches Daniel's AOD Matthew 24:15, and The Great Tribulation Matthew 24:21 have been fulfilled, this is 100% (Preterist Teaching)

You can deny this all you want, the above mentioned is a fact, no need to mention anything else, those two verses alone, claimed to be fulfilled is 100% (Preterist Teaching)

I believe and teach the verses mentioned above are (Future Unfulfilled) I'm 100% (Futurist)

Jesus Is The Lord

Daniel's grammar debunks your delusions.