25 questions that prove that ancient Chiliasm was a different animal to modern Premil

[Randy Kluth]

Not so!

Are you now inventing a 3rd group to suit your theology?

I give up!

 

[WPM]

I give up!

OK. Checkmate then! To answer that honestly would force you to admit my thesis is correct.

 

[Randy Kluth]

OK. Checkmate then! To answer that honestly would force you to admit my thesis is correct.

I'm not conceding anything. I'm not saying I'm giving up talking to you. I'm saying I give up trying to get you to answer a simple question, or to admit you made up your own description of what Modern Premills believe. You won't do it.

 

[Keraz]

Please quote each of these passages in full and underline where they actually mention some so-called future millennium after the second coming? The Premil millennium is a dumping ground for every possible passage relating to the current last days and the one-and-only NHNE that arrives at the second coming. That is because it enjoys zero corroboration elsewhere in Scripture.

I did quote as much as was necessary to prove they refer to the Millennium period. They simply don't fit anywhere else.
You look them up and check their context. Tell us where you think they belong.

Calling the thousand years time that Jesus will reign as King over the world, - 'so called', directly contradicts Revelation 20, which states that time period six times.
We are plainly told that the New heavens and earth comes AFTER the Millenium and the GWT Judgment. Revelation 21:1
The descriptions of the glorious Return of Jesus, never say that He destroys the world at that time. He comes to rule over it.

Your response to the 10 Bible passages I posted in #219, is typical of someone who has no proper answer to the evidence presented and just stalls by demanding more evidence and by reiterating their own beliefs, without evidence.
The Millennium does 'enjoy corroboration' in scripture and in historical facts. The AMilll theory has no Biblical support and proposes a very unlikely and illogical end to God's Plan for mankind.

 

[WPM]

I did quote as much as was necessary to prove they refer to the Millennium period. They simply don't fit anywhere else.
You look them up and check their context. Tell us where you think they belong.

Calling the thousand years time that Jesus will reign as King over the world, - 'so called', directly contradicts Revelation 20, which states that time period six times.
We are plainly told that the New heavens and earth comes AFTER the Millenium and the GWT Judgment. Revelation 21:1
The descriptions of the glorious Return of Jesus, never say that He destroys the world at that time. He comes to rule over it.

Your response to the 10 Bible passages I posted in #219, is typical of someone who has no proper answer to the evidence presented and just stalls by demanding more evidence and by reiterating their own beliefs, without evidence.
The Millennium does 'enjoy corroboration' in scripture and in historical facts. The AMilll theory has no Biblical support and proposes a very unlikely and illogical end to God's Plan for mankind.

I will take your avoidance as an admission that you have nothing in the Old Testament. You are quoting passages ad-hoc that make absolutely no mention of the detail pertaining to a future millennium. You do that. That is because you have zero corroboration in the Scriptures.

 

[Keraz]

I will take your avoidance as an admission that you have nothing in the Old Testament. You are quoting passages ad-hoc that make absolutely no mention of the detail pertaining to a future millennium. You do that. That is because you have zero corroboration in the Scriptures.

I have proved the yet to happen Millennium, by my 7000 year timeline. From the given time periods in the Bible and from known historical dates; we are now very close to 6000 years since Adam. The thousand year Millennium comes after Jesus Returns.

Your unsupported rejections of Bible truths and your recidivist accusations against the brethren, are an indictment against you.

 

[Jay Ross]

Your unsupported rejections of Bible truths and your recidivist accusations against the brethren, are an indictment against you.

Careful who you call a recidivist. You are also a repeat offender. the definition is: - "a convicted criminal who reoffends, especially repeatedly."

Your offences against the scriptures are numerous to say the least.

 

[Keraz]

Your offences against the scriptures are numerous to say the leas

Accusations without proving any offence, are worthless.
Basically, what I present conflicts with your beliefs, so it upsets you. Whoever is right, is shown by the Bible truths.

 

[Jay Ross]

Accusations without proving any offence, are worthless.
Basically, what I present conflicts with your beliefs, so it upsets you. Whoever is right, is shown by the Bible truths.

What? Your biblical truths will prove that you are right? Who are you kidding? God?

Keraz, when I have told you that the assumed context of the various English translations are all in error, you want to claim that that is not so, but your expertise in understanding the source texts is limited to what others tell you is the contextual content of the various translations.

Your argument against what I have said is to use a false argumentative claim based on your own ignorance.

The meaning of the H:0127 is soil. It is a fertile field, and Jesus told us in a parable that when the Sower gets to the prepared field that the scattered seed will bring in an increase of 30, 60 or 100 times. In many of the prophecies concerning the gathering by God of the Israelites to Himself, He speaks of placing them in a fertile field and teaching them about the Religion of Israel. I am not sure that you can understand the metaphors when used in the scripture to convey the intended context and prophecy for Israel.

Have a great day now.

 

[Keraz]

I have told you that the assumed context of the various English translations are all in error

I reject this assumption.
We have not received a Bible that is in error and confusion. There may be some translators mistakes and even bias, but the general Message can be relied upon. Or else where are we?

The problems with the Prophesies, arise in our various interpretations of what is Written. Because of beliefs in false theories and doctrines, many have been fooled and confused. We must clear our minds of any teachings that are unsupported by scripture.

 

[WPM]

I have proved the yet to happen Millennium, by my 7000 year timeline. From the given time periods in the Bible and from known historical dates; we are now very close to 6000 years since Adam. The thousand year Millennium comes after Jesus Returns.

Can I remind you that we are in 2022? So, the millennium must've started 22 years ago? Or are you like a lot of Premils whose theology was exposed in the year 2000 and have been forced to move the date of the second coming forward to suit their claims?

Your unsupported rejections of Bible truths and your recidivist accusations against the brethren, are an indictment against you.

You are resorting back to your old vicious ad hominem. I though you had moved on from that.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Jesus is the only begotten Son of God, the Father. John 1:14-18
Many scriptures confirm this fact.

Was my question too difficult? Do you believe Jesus is God? Yes or no? Your reluctance to answer the question straightforwardly is very telling.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

This belief is a total divergence from what the Bible does tell us about the Millennium.
Here are some of the scriptures which describe that wonderful time:
Psalms 47:1-9 Clap your hands all you peoples.......Praise the Lord, King of all the earth.....
Psalms 48:1-14 The Lord is in the city of our God, ...within His Temple.... Go around Zion and see its splendour.
Psalms 93:1-5 The Lord has become King, clothed with majesty.....
Psalms 98:1-9 ....Acclaim the Lord, all the earth; break into songs of joy ....the world and all who dwell in it.....
Isaiah 2:2-4 In days to come the Lords House will be set high above the mountains and the peoples will stream towards it....for their instruction....
Isaiah 11:1 10 The Lord will Judge with justice and equity..... The wolf will live with the lamb.....there will be neither harm nor hurt on My holy place, for all the earth will be filled with the knowledge of the Lord.
Isaiah 33:20-24 Look to Zion, the sacred city, to Jerusalem, never to be moved. ...There is the Lord in all His majesty........No on there will get sick and there sins will be pardoned.
Isaiah 65:18-28 [verse 17 prophesies the new heavens and earth, that comes after the Millennium. Rev 21:1-7] I create Jerusalem as a delight,,,the sounds of grief will not be heard in it.....people will live much longer, as long lived as a tree; in peace and security.......The lion will eat straw like the ox.
Isaiah 66:23-24 At the new moon and on the Sabbaths, people will come to bow before Me. they will view the corpses of those who rebelled......
Micah 4:1-5 In the days to come, the Lords House will be above everything. People will come to it so He may teach us His ways....There will be no more war.
Zechariah 14:3-21...... The Lord will appear, attended by His holy angels. His enemies will be destroyed by a plague that rots their flesh......Then the Lord will be established in His holy House.....Those peoples who do not come to keep the Feast of Tabernacles, will be punished by having the rain withheld.

How come you have failed to see these verses, WPM?
My suggestion to you, is to cease any teachings of AMill, to renounce that theory and to apologise to us all for your forceful and unpleasant posts here.

Congratulations on misinterpreting all of those scriptures without fail. Isaiah 2:2-4 and Micah 4:1-5 refer specifically to "the last days". According to NT scripture, which you have very little understanding of, the last days had begun already as of the day of Pentecost long ago (see Acts 2:16-21) and they lead up to the return of Christ (see 2 Peter 3:3-4). But, you have the last days occurring after the return of Christ which contradicts the NT scriptures I referenced.

Please explain how it can be that there will be this "wonderful time" on earth for a thousand years after Christ returns, but then somehow a number of people "as the sand of the sea" turn against Jesus and His people in just a short time. Do you think Satan is really that powerful that he can so quickly change the minds of a multitude of people who had just experienced a "wonderful time" on earth for a thousand years?

 

[Jay Ross]

The problems with the Prophesies, arise in our various interpretations of what is Written. Because of beliefs in false theories and doctrines, many have been fooled and confused. We must clear our minds of any teachings that are unsupported by scripture.

So true, so true. If as you say, I am confused, then what is the condition of your confusion. Your belief in God and the fact that Jesus is the Son of Man, may be enough to save your soul, but our consistent misrepresentation of the Biblical Prophecies may also be our undoing.

God does give us all time to repent of our sins, however if we will not then that is on us and not on God.

Have a good day now.

 

[WPM]

Was my question too difficult? Do you believe Jesus is God? Yes or no? Your reluctance to answer the question straightforwardly is very telling.

I think we need an orthodox test before letting people loose here. There is so much heretical baggage hiding below the surface on Premils of these forums.

 

[Keraz]

Can I remind you that we are in 2022? So, the millennium must've started 22 years ago?

Our Gregorian Calendar does not give us correct Biblical dates. Our year 2000 had no significance.

You are resorting back to your old vicious ad hominem. I though you had moved on from that.

It is your unpleasant comments and accusations that I have warned you about.

Do you believe Jesus is God?

What I believe about that, is not the issue under discussion here. You are posing a red herring.
Jesus will be the King and Lord of the earth when He Returns; Revelation 19:16 That is all we need to know and it proves AMill wrong.

Please explain how it can be that there will be this "wonderful time" on earth for a thousand years after Christ returns, but then somehow a number of people "as the sand of the sea" turn against Jesus and His people in just a short time. Do you think Satan is really that powerful that he can so quickly change the minds of a multitude of people who had just experienced a "wonderful time" on earth for a thousand years?

Revelation 20:7-9, says it plainly. After the thousand years are over, Satan will be loosed and he will seduce the nations......
Plainly stated scripture - believe it or not, your choice.

I think we need an orthodox test before letting people loose here. There is so much heretical baggage hiding below the surface on Premils of these forums.

An ability to read and understand the plainly Written Words of the Prophets, is all that is required.
'heretical baggage', comes from false teachings and belief in fables. 2 Tmothy 4:3-4

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Our Gregorian Calendar does not give us correct Biblical dates. Our year 2000 had no significance.

It is your unpleasant comments and accusations that I have warned you about.

What about your own upleasant comments and accusations? It's okay for you?

What I believe about that, is not the issue under discussion here. You are posing a red herring.

What you believe about that exposes you as some kind of cult member or heretic who cannot be trusted to teach the truth of God's Word.

 

[Keraz]

What about your own upleasant comments and accusations? It's okay for you?

What I do is to show the truths of the Prophetic Word. Because the actual Prophesies conflict with your beliefs; does that constitute 'unpleasant comments and accusations'?
Maybe I am a lone voice, I get very little approval. But that's OK, as the ancient Prophets were also reviled and their teachings rejected.
The beliefs of a majority can never be assumed to be right.

The Bible Prophets and anyone who promotes their prophesies, WILL be vindicated. OR - the entire Bible is just a fiction book.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

What I do is to show the truths of the Prophetic Word.

No, you don't.

Because the actual Prophesies conflict with your beliefs; does that constitute 'unpleasant comments and accusations'?

No, that isn't what I'm talking about. Don't pretend like you don't know what I'm talking about. You often make rude and condescending remarks towards others who disagree with you. That is a fact that everyone here knows.

Maybe I am a lone voice, I get very little approval.

If you actually taught the truth, you would get at least a little bit of approval, but you get none. That is very telling. God does not reveal truth to just one person.

But that's OK, as the ancient Prophets were also reviled and their teachings rejected.

They were not rejected by everyone the way many of your teachings are rejected by everyone.

The beliefs of a majority can never be assumed to be right.

Is that what you think I'm saying? Not at all! But, you should at least have some who agree with you if what you believed was true, but you don't.

The Bible Prophets and anyone who promotes their prophesies, WILL be vindicated. OR - the entire Bible is just a fiction book.

You can't just promote the prophecies, you have to promote them accurately. And, most of the time, you do not.

You also reject the truth that Jesus is God, which exposes you as a fraud.

 

[WPM]

Our Gregorian Calendar does not give us correct Biblical dates. Our year 2000 had no significance.

It is your unpleasant comments and accusations that I have warned you about.

What I believe about that, is not the issue under discussion here. You are posing a red herring.
Jesus will be the King and Lord of the earth when He Returns; Revelation 19:16 That is all we need to know and it proves AMill wrong.

Revelation 20:7-9, says it plainly. After the thousand years are over, Satan will be loosed and he will seduce the nations......
Plainly stated scripture - believe it or not, your choice.

An ability to read and understand the plainly Written Words of the Prophets, is all that is required.
'heretical baggage', comes from false teachings and belief in fables. 2 Tmothy 4:3-4

To deny the deity of Christ is heresy. That is why I want to know what I am dealing with. Your unease at the question and your avoidance of it is concerning me.