A Christian who deny Jesus is God in Flesh

[Wrangler]

an oxymoron a person cannot be saved (a believer -christian) and deny Jesus is God.

Trinitarian dogma without Scriptural support.

John 8:24 is the scriptural support for his statement.

I've pointed it out many times. Trinitarians suppose figurative statements supersede literal statement on literal matters. John 8:24 has Jesus saying, 'Unless you believe I am who I have said I am,' which ≠ Jesus is God support.

 

[justbyfaith]

saying "james didnt translate" is a very ignorant statement. no sophisticated mind would ever suggest or think such nonesense, kings would never in a million years translate anything, academics, such as translators, worked for kings, they did all the hard work.

The latter part of your statement unsubstantiates the former part of your statement.

Obviously if the translators did all the hard work of translating, King James wasn't the one doing the translating.

Holy is His Name, do you not know what that means?
do you think the Heavenly Father is pleased that a homosexuals name is on His Holy scriptures?

Homosexuals have tried to say that Paul the apostle was a homosexual too. I don't believe them. Why then should I believe this accusation against King James? It is the same kind of thing, motivated in a desire to discredit the version of the holy scriptures that I hold to be the unadulterated word of God.

 

[justbyfaith]

I've pointed it out many times. Trinitarians suppose figurative statements supersede literal statement on literal matters. John 8:24 has Jesus saying, 'Unless you believe I am who I have said I am,' which ≠ Jesus is God support.

Who did He say He was?

He broke grammatical rules in order to make a claim in John 8:58; referring back to Exodus 3:14. The scribes and Pharisees understood His claim; why don't you? They picked up stones to stone Him for blasphemy; and "because thou, being a man, makest thyself God." (John 8:59, John 10:31-33).

 

[jaybird]

The latter part of your statement unsubstantiates the former part of your statement.

Obviously if the translators did all the hard work of translating, King James wasn't the one doing the translating.

substantiate means support. but i dont think you made a mistake, i am starting to believe this is how you follow the bible, everything is opposite, or backward. bible says do not steal, you would teach people its ok to steal.

Homosexuals have tried to say that Paul the apostle was a homosexual too. I don't believe them. Why then should I believe this accusation against King James? It is the same kind of thing, motivated in a desire to discredit the version of the holy scriptures that I hold to be the unadulterated word of God.

like i said, no matter how much evidence is provided, no matter what the truth is, your gonna follow the opposite. king James was a homosexual, borderline pedophile, and extremely cruel to those he ruled over. and in your world he was a saint and the kjv bible was carried and used by Jesus, the 12, even Moses!
you are by far the most indoctrinated person i have ever talked to. why do you bother to carry a bible when you dont accept it. just carry your book of manmade doctrines and throw your bible away.

 

[justbyfaith]

but i dont think you made a mistake, i am starting to believe this is how you follow the bible, everything is opposite, or backward. bible says do not steal, you would teach people its ok to steal.

I do teach that there is no more condemnation from the law for the believer in Christ.

But I also teach that the Holy Spirit within the believer motivates him to keep the law.

like i said, no matter how much evidence is provided, no matter what the truth is, your gonna follow the opposite. king James was a homosexual, borderline pedophile, and extremely cruel to those he ruled over. and in your world he was a saint and the kjv bible was carried and used by Jesus, the 12, even Moses!
you are by far the most indoctrinated person i have ever talked to. why do you bother to carry a bible when you dont accept it. just carry your book of manmade doctrines and throw your bible away.

Yeah, and the apostle Paul was a homosexual too.

I don't believe it for a second.

 

[Wrangler]

Who did He say He was?

The Son of Man, over and over and over again this is what he said he was. He certainly never claimed to be God - although trinitarians are desperate to reach this conclusion. More important is who God said Jesus was, a man He selected to judge the whole world.


29 When they carried out everything that had been foretold by the prophets, they took His body down from the tree and laid Him in a tomb. 30 But that was not the end: God raised Him from the dead, 31 and over a period of many days, He appeared to those who had been His companions from the beginning of their journey in Galilee until its end in Jerusalem. They are now witnesses to everyone. 32 We are here to bring you the good news of God’s promise to our ancestors, 33 which He has now fulfilled for our children by raising Jesus. Consider the promises fulfilled in Jesus. The psalmist says, “You are My Son; today I have become Your Father.”
Acts 13:29-33 (Voice)

God adopted Jesus on the day he raised him from the dead.

31 He has fixed a day of accountability, when the whole world will be justly evaluated by a new, higher standard: not by a statue, but by a living man. God selected this man and made Him credible to all by raising Him from the dead.
Acts 17:31 (Voice)

 

[justbyfaith]

He certainly never claimed to be God - although trinitarians are desperate to reach this conclusion.

I certainly have no motivation to reach the conclusion that Jesus is God except for the very fact that the Bible teaches this doctrine and I believe what the Bible says.

I have seen in non-trinitarians, however, that there must be some kind of motivation to deny this fact of holy scripture (the Deity of Jesus Christ).

For even when the evidence is right in front of them, they will often continue to deny this objective fact.

 

[Wrangler]

I certainly have no motivation to reach the conclusion that Jesus is God except for the very fact that the Bible teaches this doctrine

Not sure who told you the Bible teaches this as that is totally not true. The Bible identifies God as singular over 5,000 times and never prophecies God incarnate. The Apostles stated over and over and over again that Jesus was not God but rather, God, in his unitarian nature, was his Father. Even the Pharisees only accused him of being the Son of God, not God, but the Messiah. God is our Father. The resurrected Jesus stated he was going to his God, in his unitarian nature.


Grace and peace be with you from God our Father and the Lord Jesus the Anointed.
Philippians 1:2 (Voice)

Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ!
1 Peter 1:3 (ESV)

Jesus said to her, “Do not cling to me, for I have not yet ascended to the Father; but go to my brothers and say to them, ‘I am ascending to my Father and your Father, to my God and your God.’”
John 20:17

'for us there is one God, the Father'
1 Corinthians 8:6

 

[justbyfaith]

It is very true that the Bible teaches the Deity of Christ.

I have even set forth a preaching series in six posts that show forth this reality (I would suggest going and reading the posts; for I have dedicated one of them to even answering some of your objections).

True Trinity.

 

[Wrangler]

It is very true that the Bible teaches the Deity of Christ.

The trinity is NOT in the Bible, not the word, not the idea. It is always funny to watch trinitarians aspire to the fallacy of Strawman, supposing that by asserting the man is God thesis, that 2 is 3.

 

[justbyfaith]

The trinity is NOT in the Bible, not the word, not the idea.

Yes, the idea is found therein.

All you have to do is look for it.

 

[Wrangler]

Yes, the idea is found therein.

All you have to do is look for it.

Not one verse contains the idea of the trinity. Nowhere in the Bible does it say anything like trinitarians pretend it says, e.g., God's nature is trinitarian and if you do not believe this, you cannot be saved. Obeying God is where it is at. Jesus says this is where it is at.

4 “Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God, the LORD is one.
Deuteronomy 6:4

Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ!
1 Peter 1:3

For us, there is one God, the Father.
1 Cor 8:6

“Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven.
Matthew 7:21

 

[justbyfaith]

Not one verse contains the idea of the trinity. Nowhere in the Bible does it say anything like trinitarians pretend it says, e.g., God's nature is trinitarian and if you do not believe this, you cannot be saved. Obeying God is where it is at. Jesus says this is where it is at.

4 “Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God, the LORD is one.
Deuteronomy 6:4

Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ!
1 Peter 1:3

For us, there is one God, the Father.
1 Cor 8:6

“Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven.
Matthew 7:21

I would agree with you that the Trinity is not the essential doctrine.

The essential doctrine is the Deity of Christ (John 8:24).

 

[justbyfaith]

That Jesus, the Son, is the everlasting Father in His Spirit is evident in such passages as Isaiah 9:6 and John 4:23-24 w/ John 14:7-11.

 

[justbyfaith]

I also, think that you don't believe in the Deity of Christ because you don't want to believe in the Deity of Christ.

And, while I don't understand that perspective, I do think that it results in a bias on your part when it comes to your reading of holy scripture.

 

[Wrangler]

I would agree with you that the Trinity is not the essential doctrine.

The essential doctrine is the Deity of Christ (John 8:24).

So typical of trinitarians to pretend verses support the 4th century idolatry when they don't! John 8:24 does not proclaim Jesus is a deity. You are simply reading that into the text.

I believe Jesus is the Messiah, who God chose to save the world. This is what it says in Acts 17:31. God, in his unitarian nature, chose this living man.

It's silly to think Jesus fathered himself, prayed to himself, asked himself to pass the cup from him, put his soul into his own hands upon death, sits at his own right hand, mediates for himself but did not yet go to himself when Mary saw him resurrected.

 

[justbyfaith]

So typical of trinitarians to pretend verses support the 4th century idolatry when they don't! John 8:24 does not proclaim Jesus is a deity. You are simply reading that into the text.

Right...John 8:24 only makes the Deity of Christ, if that is what is being proclaimed by the words I AM, an essential for salvation.

The real claim is in John 8:58, where Jesus breaks grammatical rules in order to make a claim (shifting from past tense to present tense) that referred back to Exodus 3:14.

The scribes and Pharisees understood what Jesus was claiming; and they picked up stones to stone Him for blasphemy (John 8:59, John 10:31-33); and because "thou, being a man, makest thyself God." (John 10:31-33).

 

[Wrangler]

I also, think that you don't believe in the Deity of Christ because you don't want to believe in the Deity of Christ.

You are correct. I don't want to believe what is untrue and what the Bible clearly goes against. The Bible was written by anti-trinitarians. There is only one God, and that is Jesus' God. The Bible says this thousands of times! The trinity is not in the Bible. The Deity of Jesus is not in the Bible but is a 4th century construct. Theologically, if Jesus were God, we would lose our only Mediator to God. NOTE: Peter does not give any praise to Jesus, all praise to God (who is the Father of Jesus, and is our God and Father).

You shall have no other gods before me.
Exodus 20:3

Moses: 4 Listen, Israel! The Eternal is our True God—He alone.
Deuteronomy 6:4 (VOICE)

I am the Eternal One; there is no other God but Me
Isaiah 45:5, 21

But the LORD is the only true God.
Jeremiah 10:10 (NLT)

27 Then you will know that I am among my people Israel, that I am the LORD your God, and there is no other. Joel 2:27

17 “Don’t cling to me,” Jesus said, “for... ‘I am ascending to my God and your God.’”
John 20:17

All praise to God, the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ.
1 Peter 1:3

 

[Wrangler]

Right...John 8:24 only makes the Deity of Christ, if that is what is being proclaimed by the words I AM, an essential for salvation.

I am is NOT a claim of divinity. It is a common expression and trinitarians read so much into things because the trinity is not in the Bible. The desperation is palpable. Why isn't the formerly blind man God since he said I AM.


Others: 9 This is the same man.

Still Others: This cannot be him. But this fellow bears an uncanny resemblance to the blind man.

Formerly Blind Man: I AM the same man. It’s me!
John 9:9 (Voice)

 

[justbyfaith]

The Bible says this thousands of times! The trinity is not in the Bible.

It is in the Bible.

I am is NOT a claim of divinity. It is a common expression and trinitarians read so much into things because the trinity is not in the Bible. The desperation is palpable. Why isn't the formerly blind man God since he said I AM.

The blind man was not breaking grammatical rules in order to make a claim. His claim was that he was the same blind man that sat normally sat begging.

When Jesus made His claim, the Pharisees understood Him (correctly) as making a claim to Deity.