Abiding In Christ Necessary for Eternal Life

[GracePeace]

John 15:1 - I am the true vine, and My Father is the vinedresser. 2 Every branch in Me that does not bear fruit He takes away; and every branch that bears fruit He prunes, that it may bear more fruit. Like I said - does not bear fruit and bears fruit.

1. You're assuming these conditions are static--that they don't change. This is not the case as is seen in Heb 3 where sin can harden the heart turning it into a heart of unbelief whereby the person falls away from the living God.
2. The "little children" are warned to remain in Him (1 Jn 2:28). What is leading them away? Idols (1 Jn 5:21). So this applies to "real" believers. This is the case in Galatians--"You ran [the race of faith] well. Who hindered you from obeying the truth?"

Amen! Only he who abides. Only genuine believers abide. In John 8:31-32, Jesus said - If you continue in My word, then you are truly My disciples; and you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free. Those who do not continue demonstrate they are not truly His disciples, as we see in John 6:64-66.

The branch issues from the Vine. It has life. At any point, however, it may stop abiding.

Judas Iscariot is a good example. (John 6:64-71; 13:10-11,18; 17:12)


False. The lack of abiding (remaining, continuing) demonstrates a lack of conversion. 1 John 4:13 - By this we know that we abide in Him, and He in us, because He has given us of His Spirit. 14 And we have seen and testify that the Father has sent the Son as Savior of the world. 15 Whoever confesses that Jesus is the Son of God, God abides in him, and he in God.

Anyone who abides in Him receives His Spirit--some do not persist in abiding (1 Jn 2:28), because they're breaking God's commands (1 Jn 3:23,24), because they're following idols (1 Jn 5:21), just as stated in Ezekiel, "because they rejected My ordinances, and as for My statutes, they did not walk in them; they even profaned My Sabbaths, for their heart continually went after their idols."

 

[mailmandan]

Praise God, Halleluiah. Jesus is coming soon. I'm excited and ready, I've been washed in His Blood and sealed until the day.

Ephesians 1:12-14 -
12 that we who first trusted in Christ should be to the praise of His glory.
13 In Him you also trusted, after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also, having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise, 14 who is the guarantee of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, to the praise of His glory.

Amen! For those who teach eternal IN-security, pay close attention to who is the guarantee of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession.. in Ephesians 1:14.

 

[mailmandan]

Amen

Sealed until the day

Not sealed until we fall away

Amen! In Ephesians 4:30, we read - And do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, by whom you were sealed unto/for the day of redemption.

 

[mailmandan]

It says sealed UNTIL the day of redemption (there are actually three places it says this

Ephesians 4:30

And do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, by whom you were sealed for the day of redemption. (were a completed action)

Ephesians 1:13

In Him you also trusted, after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also, having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise, (this occurs AFTER we trust God)

2 Corinthians 1:22
who also has sealed us and given us the Spirit in our hearts as a guarantee.

It does not say sealed UNTIL or as long as we do not Fall away

Amen! and again I say, AMEN!

 

[mailmandan]

Not just past tense, but perfect tense, meaning, this is an action completed with enduring effect. Have become partakers in such a manner as that we remain partakers of Christ.

Much love!

Amen! Past tense with ongoing present results.

 

[mailmandan]

lol..

Thanks for putting us as having to earn salvation. earn eternal life.

Its a gift my friend..

In Romans 5, Paul says "free gift" 3 times, yet certain people still seem determined to work for it and earn it. (at least in part)

Romans 5:15 - But the free gift is not like the offense. For if by the one man’s offense many died, much more the grace of God and the gift by the grace of the one Man, Jesus Christ, abounded to many. 16 And the gift is not like that which came through the one who sinned. For the judgment which came from one offense resulted in condemnation, but the free gift which came from many offenses resulted in justification. 17 For if by the one man’s offense death reigned through the one, much more those who receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness will reign in life through the One, Jesus Christ.) 18 Therefore, as through one man’s offense judgment came to all men, resulting in condemnation, even so through one Man’s righteous act the free gift came to all men, resulting in justification of life.

 

[GracePeace]

In Romans 5, Paul says "free gift" 3 times, yet certain people still seem determined to work for it and earn it. (at least in part)

Romans 5:15 - But the free gift is not like the offense. For if by the one man’s offense many died, much more the grace of God and the gift by the grace of the one Man, Jesus Christ, abounded to many. 16 And the gift is not like that which came through the one who sinned. For the judgment which came from one offense resulted in condemnation, but the free gift which came from many offenses resulted in justification. 17 For if by the one man’s offense death reigned through the one, much more those who receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness will reign in life through the One, Jesus Christ.) 18 Therefore, as through one man’s offense judgment came to all men, resulting in condemnation, even so through one Man’s righteous act the free gift came to all men, resulting in justification of life.

1. No, there are people who actually read the Bible, and sometimes read seemingly contradictory things, but which they are responsible to believe nonetheless--eg, eternal life is indeed said to be a gift, but it is ALSO said to be a repayment for good deeds at the judgment (Ro 2:6-16), or a harvest reaped in due time by people who live lives of doing good deeds (Gal 6:6-10).

2. Eternal life is a gift due to righteousness being a gift.

Romans 6
22But now having been freed from sin and enslaved to God, you derive your benefit, resulting in sanctification, and the outcome, eternal life. 23For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.

So, again, when the person does not abide in Christ (1 Jn 2:28), because they're breaking His commands (1 Jn 3:23,24), because they're following idols (1 Jn 5:21), they're not maintaining eligibility for the Spirit/eternal life that is only in Christ (1 Jn 5:11). "There is no condemnation for those in Christ" (Ro 8:1) because "there is no sin in Him", but the person who "sins" by not walking in faith is "condemned" (Ro 14:5,23), because they're not abiding in Christ, and because "God's righteousness is revealed from faith to faith" (Ro 1:5,16,17), so they aren't remaining in Christ/"God Is Our Righteousness" (Jer 23:6).

 

[mailmandan]

1. No, there are people who actually read the Bible, and sometimes read seemingly contradictory things, but which they are responsible to believe nonetheless--eg, eternal life is indeed said to be a gift, but it is ALSO said to be a repayment for good deeds at the judgment (Ro 2:6-16), or a harvest reaped in due time by people who live lives of doing good deeds (Gal 6:6-10).

2. Eternal life is a gift due to righteousness being a gift.

Romans 6
22But now having been freed from sin and enslaved to God, you derive your benefit, resulting in sanctification, and the outcome, eternal life. 23For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.

So, again, when the person does not abide in Christ (1 Jn 2:28), because they're breaking His commands (1 Jn 3:23,24), because they're following idols (1 Jn 5:21), they're not maintaining eligibility for the Spirit/eternal life that is only in Christ (1 Jn 5:11). "There is no condemnation for those in Christ" (Ro 8:1) because "there is no sin in Him", but the person who "sins" by not walking in faith is "condemned" (Ro 14:5,23), because they're not abiding in Christ, and because "God's righteousness is revealed from faith to faith" (Ro 1:5,16,17), so they aren't remaining in Christ/"God Is Our Righteousness" (Jer 23:6).

I already covered many of these passages of scripture with you before in previous posts (not sure about Romans 6:22) but your beliefs are fixed, and your conscience appears to be seared. I have time to cover Romans 6:22 with you before I meet my wife for Taco Tuesday.

How about a little context. In regard to Romans 6:16, works-salvationists typically ignore "servants of obedience unto righteousness" and simply stress "obedience unto righteousness" as if works of obedience which "follow saving faith in Christ" are "unto righteousness," as if we are saved by works. Unbelievers are not slaves of obedience unto righteousness no matter how much so-called obedience that they attempt to conjure up through the flesh in a vain effort to obtain salvation by works. (Matthew 7:22-23)

There is a contrast here between servants/slaves. There are only two kinds of servants/slaves in this world, in the spiritual sense; servants/slaves of sin unto death, or servants/slaves of obedience unto righteousness. When we place our faith exclusively in Jesus Christ for salvation/believe the gospel by trusting in His finished work of redemption as the ALL-sufficient means of our salvation, we then become "servants of obedience unto righteousness."

Being slaves of sin is put in the past tense. Paul goes on in Romans 6:18 - "You have been set free from sin and have become slaves to righteousness."

Notice in Romans 10:10 - For with the heart one believes unto righteousness..

Notice in Romans 4:5 - But to him who does not work but believes on Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith (not his works) is accounted for righteousness.

 

[GracePeace]

I already covered many of these passages of scripture with you before in previous posts (not sure about Romans 6:22) but your beliefs are fixed, and your conscience appears to be seared. I have time to cover Romans 6:22 with you before I meet my wife for Taco Tuesday.

How about a little context. In regard to Romans 6:16, works-salvationists typically ignore "servants of obedience unto righteousness" and simply stress "obedience unto righteousness" as if works of obedience which "follow saving faith in Christ" are "unto righteousness," as if we are saved by works. Unbelievers are not slaves of obedience unto righteousness no matter how much so-called obedience that they attempt to conjure up through the flesh in a vain effort to obtain salvation by works. (Matthew 7:22-23)

There is a contrast here between servants/slaves. There are only two kinds of servants/slaves in this world, in the spiritual sense; servants/slaves of sin unto death, or servants/slaves of obedience unto righteousness. When we place our faith exclusively in Jesus Christ for salvation/believe the gospel by trusting in His finished work of redemption as the ALL-sufficient means of our salvation, we then become "servants of obedience unto righteousness."

Being slaves of sin is put in the past tense. Paul goes on in Romans 6:18 - "You have been set free from sin and have become slaves to righteousness."

Notice in Romans 10:10 - For with the heart one believes unto righteousness..

Notice in Romans 4:5 - But to him who does not work but believes on Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith (not his works) is accounted for righteousness.

LOL "If anyone can prove their arguments from Scripture, and disagrees with me, their conscience is seared."

Just state your case, and have it get debunked--no need to "attack the man".

 

[marks]

but your beliefs are fixed, and your conscience appears to be seared.

Just for the record . . . my "like" doesn't include this part . . .

Much love!

 

[GracePeace]

Just for the record . . . my "like" doesn't include this part . . .

Much love!

Thanks for the clarification--that was kinda dark to think you would have "liked" that.

 

[marks]

Thanks for the clarification--that was kinda dark to think you would have "liked" that.

In all honesty it didn't really register when I first read the post. Once I realized what was included, I kinda felt the same way.

We can all use a little polish, eh?

Much love!

 

[GracePeace]

Not just past tense, but perfect tense, meaning, this is an action completed with enduring effect. Have become partakers in such a manner as that we remain partakers of Christ.

Much love!

I only just now realized this verse was scooped up out of the middle of one of my favorite passages.

Have you considered how that you found that verse literally in the middle of a warning not to fall away from the living God?

Hebrews 3
12See to it, brothers, that none of you has a wicked heart of unbelief that turns away from the living God. 13But exhort one another daily, as long as it is called today, so that none of you may be hardened by sin’s deceitfulness.
14We have come to share in Christ if we hold firmly to the end the assurance we had at first. 15As it has been said:
“Today, if you hear His voice,
do not harden your hearts,
as you did in the rebellion.”e
16For who were the ones who heard and rebelled? Were they not all those Moses led out of Egypt?

The context is "see to it you don't fall away from the living God by your heart being turned unbelieving due to being hardened through sin's deceitfulness" (thus, afterward, the comparison is made to the Jews who were "saved" out of Egypt--which Paul says has the direct correlation to the believers who are "saved" by the blood of the Lamb, because they were saved by the blood of lambs--but who fell under God's wrath anyway because of not continuing in faith), and in the middle of that, you have the phrase "We have become partakers if we continue steadfast in the confidence we have from the beginning", yet you want it to mean something that has nothing at all to do with the idea of "beginning right but ending wrong".

Wow! LOL! You want that verse to be an out-of-place "dictionary definition" for what it means to be a "true believer"--just, for no reason, the verse explains that if you continue in faith it means you truly partook of Christ. WHAT!? LOL! No, dude, if you fall away, your having partaken will have been proven moot and vain and will be forgotten.

 

[mailmandan]

LOL "If anyone can prove their arguments from Scripture, and disagrees with me, their conscience is seared."

Just state your case, and have it get debunked--no need to "attack the man".

Debunked? LOL! Not hardly.. I know about attacks. I was called a liar and a disgrace. Remember? Oh well. Sticks and stones.

 

[GracePeace]

Debunked? LOL! Not hardly.. I know about attacks. I was called a liar and a disgrace. Remember? Oh well. Sticks and stones.

I invite anyone to read our discussions--I have absolute confidence that I've proven my case.

 

[mailmandan]

I invite anyone to read our discussions--I have absolute confidence that I've proven my case.

I disagree but feel free to bask in your over confidence. This is not all about me (self promotion) as it is for you.

 

[GracePeace]

I disagree but feel free to bask in your over confidence. This is not all about me (self promotion) as it is for you.

@marks doesn't have to falsely accuse me because he's confident in his position--your need to falsely accuse me is proof that you are not confident in your position.

And how could you be after having had the truth explained to you over and over and over?

 

[mailmandan]

marks doesn't have to accuse me because he's confident in his position--your need to attack me is proof that you are not confident.

Your psychological games won't work on me and that waa a very mild attack compared to attacks I've witnessed from you towards myself and others. Marks has a lot of patience, is loving towards others and is not arrogant. I admire that about marks. When it comes to confidence in regard to interpretation of scripture, my confidence is in the Holy Spirit and is not merely in myself. (1 Corinthians 2:11-14)

 

[GracePeace]

Your psychological games won't work on me and that waa a very mild attack compared to attacks I've witnessed from you towards myself and others. Marks has a lot of patience, is loving towards others and is not arrogant. I admire that about marks. When it comes to confidence in regard to interpretation of scripture, my confidence is in the Holy Spirit and is not merely in myself. (1 Corinthians 2:11-14)

Wish you and I could just stick to the text like when I talk with @marks

 

[GracePeace]

my confidence is in the Holy Spirit and is not merely in myself. (1 Corinthians 2:11-14)

I just want to clarify that it took me a long time to learn to bring my difficulties with Scripture to God, so, no, I do not trust in myself--as easy as it is to make that error, and I'd made it, it doesn't lead to solutions to Scriptural difficulties--all I can do when I find difficulties reconciling Scripture with itself is to NOT trust in my ability to reconcile them, and bring them to God, instead. It's a waste of time otherwise--a mere human being, like myself, is completely fruitless and myopic in their understanding, thinking they're actually seeing something, and doesn't at all get the full view. I do not ascribe answers to myself. I ascribe inability to myself, and all I can do is go to God and ask God, because of my blindness and inability.