All this talk of Born again.... what is it? Who is? and when does it occur?

[Xian Pugilist]

Hi XP,

Thanks for the undertaking not to 'shout'.... I still see quite a lot of 'loud' capital letters littered around though... <_<

If I'm on my phone you'll feel shouted at. I've said I'm not, if that isn't enough I don't care to enter pedantics.

Do you really? Did I miss something you've posted about this in somewhere? (Care to explain by PM?)

I tried to sleep and drive. I failed. I was comatose for a week and bled brains out my left ear. So, if I don't put the puzzle together while I "hold it", and set it aside to go back to it, I'll lose it. Thus I type 120ish on a keyboard, but only 12ish on a fone.

Honestly, some simple underlining would do the same job and be far more effective at keeping this poster engaged... not necessarily agreeing, though.

HOnestly, dealing with substance not pedantics and opinions would tickle me pink. No telling what I'd accomodate then.

That's a fair question. I suppose I take the view that if a person feels misrepresented, it must be possible to go back and read what one wrote which might have given that (wrong) impression to people who already think differently from yourself.

Yes, but I can't make you do that. So you don't do that. And you enable his lying. That's a great Xian standard to enable btw.

If there are facts you didn't share, then share them if they really matter. In the end, it's only you who can decide what matters in eternity, enough to sort out all the miscommunications, or, just let them pass.

This is a load of apologetic crock. He lied deliberately and maliciously with no remorse. ANY effort by you to check that would have shown it. Rather than bother yourself with checking, you continued to bash me and enable him. You have no excuse.
It's not on me, to make you responsible for your words.

Honestly, (again) most of the time I'm not clear what point you are trying to make, before you launch out against another poster in a personal way.

I challenge you to find a place I "lashed out personally" when it wasn't in response to telling that person they just did it to me. Or wasn't a mirroring of their tone and attitude towards me. It's amazing what you will enable your like minded friends to do, but hold me accountable for.

I'm not launcing out against you, personally, but just sharing the difficulty I'm having knowing what is important and what is debris.

This exchange is the best one we've had. It's fine.

In a different thread, HammerStone has asked us to use the Report button to report offensive posts. If they're that bad, report them.

He'd ban me if I reported every time one of you ignored my arguments and reasoning and made personal comments towards me. I wonder if there is a way I could highlight those events. If anyone cared I could show it easy enough. I'd bet that if you read the last 25 posts from STRAT not a one of them will be anything but a personal attack on someone. But you guys defend him and encourage him. That's garbage.

If you expect me to accept that with a smile.... rofl. You ain't from Texas.

 

[aspen]

Have you guys ever taken a Scientology screening test? Sometimes Scientologists set up booths at fairs or in the park and offer a free anxiety screening - you have to hook yourself up to this meter that has an arrow, which supposedly measures the amount of anxiety you are carrying around due to the lack of personal knowledge you have about your alien origin (they do not tell you that part, of course). It only takes a second to discover that the gauge responds like a hairpin trigger - the slightest breeze affects it even before you are hooked up. The result of the test is inescapable, you are riddled with anxiety and need further testing, which costs thousands and thousands of dollars.

The reason I bring this up is because Xian Pugilist's posts remind me of the test; especially your most recent post. Before you fly off the handle, please listen - I agree with many of your points, but your method of communicating leads to a loss of credibility on your part. For example, Dragonfly's post is perfectly reasonable - his/her tone (and no, we do not have to be on the phone to pick up a person's tone) is neutral and he/she may even be trying to reach out a bit to gain further understanding from you. Instead of responding with helpful information, your responses shut down the conversation. The reason I am bothering to point this out is because the message you are trying to get across is interesting - your POV is unique and I enjoy reading it; unfortunately, you seem to be shooting yourself in the foot.

In any case, please don't bother to take the time to shut me down - I am only giving you my opinion - take it or leave it. Once again, I am hoping that you will call off the assault so that I can learn more about your position. Finally, I have no investment in Dragonfly 'winning' - I have enjoyed conversations with him/her, but we have disagreed often.

 

[Xian Pugilist]

Have you guys ever taken a Scientology screening test? Sometimes Scientologists set up booths at fairs or in the park and offer a free anxiety screening - you have to hook yourself up to this meter that has an arrow, which supposedly measures the amount of anxiety you are carrying around due to the lack of personal knowledge you have about your alien origin (they do not tell you that part, of course). It only takes a second to discover that the gauge responds like a hairpin trigger - the slightest breeze affects it even before you are hooked up. The result of the test is inescapable, you are riddled with anxiety and need further testing, which costs thousands and thousands of dollars.

The reason I bring this up is because Xian Pugilist's posts remind me of the test; especially your most recent post. Before you fly off the handle, please listen - I agree with many of your points, but your method of communicating leads to a loss of credibility on your part. For example, Dragonfly's post is perfectly reasonable - his/her tone (and no, we do not have to be on the phone to pick up a person's tone) is neutral and he/she may even be trying to reach out a bit to gain further understanding from you. Instead of responding with helpful information, your responses shut down the conversation. The reason I am bothering to point this out is because the message you are trying to get across is interesting - your POV is unique and I enjoy reading it; unfortunately, you seem to be shooting yourself in the foot.

In any case, please don't bother to take the time to shut me down - I am only giving you my opinion - take it or leave it. Once again, I am hoping that you will call off the assault so that I can learn more about your position. Finally, I have no investment in Dragonfly 'winning' - I have enjoyed conversations with him/her, but we have disagreed often.

Aspen,

The passive aggressive masters the sound calm and cool and collective. The content isn't swayed by the act though. The narcissist is a master manipulator. The tone is not an indicator of the threat there either. The exchange with Dragoon and I started when I called strat a liar and she came to his defense. She's a passive personality, avoids conflicts and thus feels everyone should do the same. Not all of us are wired that way. I'm on the opposite side of the personality spectrum. I'm direct, and grow and learn through the conflict. HOWEVER, I have to train people how to deal with each personality type of I don't get paid and can't eat, literally. So I tried originally to reason. After 85 passes of attempts at reasoning, and you coming in on the last half of that, I hardly think it's a fair thing for you to judge.

Strat claimed I was making the position/statement that I was perfect/spiritually mature, and thus more than the rest of you. I'm on record saying the opposite. I showed him that, he denied changing his words. I called him on it, He refused to change and got malicious. I called him on that, and Dragoon came to defend him.

Dragoon also can't admit to an error. She has repeatedly tried to save face which meant she had to deny my words that I didn't say. She had admitted she didn't go back and read it to know what went down. HOWEVER she still continued to defend Strat.

Now, I dunno about you guys. But I read that this is NOT Xian behavior.

So after 855 passes from 5 different people, committing the same behavioral offenses, exactly the same way, EVERY ONE OF THEM I CAN PROVE if you demand it and will take the time and IF it would make a difference.

The difference in me and them...

I'm not avoiding, I'm being chastised for NOT avoiding.
I'm expecting a standard of adult conversation.
They expect to be given the right to rewrite the conversations and misrepresent those people they choose to.

I've admitted I made mistakes and was wrong.
Not a one of them have, probably since they signed up on here.

You can blame me all you want, it's your friends you enable and their own hell they will go to if you avoid matthew 18, and don't help them realize when they do something wrong.

WHICH IS NOT to say I've got no wrong. But I will hold every line above as true, except for the numbers, I lean towards hyperbole.

 

[aspen]

Xian Pugilist,

I apologize. I made a mistake commenting on what I saw. Take care and blessings.

 

[Xian Pugilist]

Xian Pugilist,

I apologize. I made a mistake commenting on what I saw. Take care and blessings.

That shows a lot of character.
I didn't mean to drive you to do that. But, I'm pretty raw over this so I came out way stronger than I needed to.

I am still just flummoxed that some of the people here jumped me for objecting to being lied about. Now what happens, is people read those comments, then see something that looks like it feeds that position but without investigating I get judged. And I'm tired and not sure that sentence makes any sense now... but maybe....

 

[epostle1]

Seriously.

Everyone claims to be born again.
The most commonly used definition of "Born Again" has only existed in the faith for a little over 150 years.... Which for me, personally, is problematic. That definition, if told to Paul, would have drawn a real odd face of query.

In a room of 50 people, I once got 85 different answers asking this question.

Let the fun begin. Who knows what it is?

The works of the flesh refers to the preoccupation with wealth, pleasure, power and honor. The world, our ordinary experiences, the things day to day…the things we think will make us happy ... The world of nature is not evil. Excesses, yes but grace builds on nature. Anything wrong with the nature of flesh in our day to day world? …NO .

Grace builds on nature and transforms nature.

God loves the world so much, he might turn the world into divine life.. he might divinize the world. Being born again is a gift from God. Given by the Father as he offered us the Son. And it it purpose is to draw us up into the divine life. Once that happens we see everything different, we feel everything in a different way we have different aspirations. We see through the eyes of Christ. Wealth, pleasure, power, honor and remain, but now they are transfigured by the wind, by the light, by the Son of God who breaks into our lives. That is the whole spiritual order.