veteran said:
You STILL haven't figured it out yet, because when the saints still alive on earth are changed at the "twinkling of an eye" like Paul said, that means the wicked on earth are 'changed' at that moment too! And that's what the Isaiah 25 Scripture reveals where Paul was pulling that idea from, along with other OT Scripture about the "day of the Lord" events of Christ's coming.
And once ALL on earth are 'changed', what does that mean? It means it's all over. Christ showed this too in John 5:28-29 which references the idea of an 'hour', which is really just a time expression. Doesn't mean it's going take a literal hour for all those events; more like a few minutes at most, but most likely it will be like God said through His OT prophets, at an instant, suddenly. Per the 6th Seal events, those who are seeking to hide from Christ's wrath because Christ is REVEALED to them, which would mean what? That 'they' at that moment have been 'changed' too, the Heavenly revealed to them also.
But the various doctrines of men come up with all sorts of ideas instead, like the saints are changed to resurrection bodies while the wicked are still in flesh bodies, etc. Some even think it's like that during Christ's Milennium reign for a thousand years too, flesh people and resurrection body people together on earth. It's crazy, and those ideas are not written. Nor is the idea that one group of people are changed suddenly, and the other group is not.
You have a lot of assumptions here.
1. When Paul describes how the Saints (Elect, Harvest wheat) are changed, or
exchange mortal for immortal (as he goes on so long to explain) - does not mean that the wicked are changed too. Paul does not address God's Wrath in Thessalonians or Corinthians to detail it; just that we don't suffer it and that it ultimately destroys the Man of Lawlessness. Isaiah 25 sets the sequence of Wrath, Ingathering, Millennial peace. Isaiah 25 does not have the separation of Sheep and Goats happening as you do before the Millennium for your "heaven on earth" scenario whereby the Saints do all the heavy lifting in defeating the wicked. That is an ego-pumping proposition.
2. John 5:28-29 follows John 5:24-25 and is one of five times in the Bible that Jesus describes two resurrections of the dead. The first is only for the Living, the righteous. The second (after the Millennium) gathers both Living and Dead and then sorts the righteous from the wicked. There is no evidence in the Bible for the wicked to be changed when the Day of the Lord comes and they're hiding in their liars.
3. Your "man" idea that somehow both are changed is also a "doctrine of man." The few Elect, who are still alive and remain after the shortened Great Tribulation (which only begins at the midpoint and does NOT last seven years - or even the remaining three and a half) - are changed instantaneously, or alternately as allowed by the underlying Greek verb, exchange their mortal bodies for immortal ones (which also explains how bodies could be flung around and there would be carcasses coincidental with the Rapture) - are the exception and not the rule. Most people, even the Elect, do not go through this process. Only a few out of hundreds of millions... perhaps just a few million world-wide. The Dead in Christ, the Living, righteous souls from Paradise, have no mortal body anymore and are translated directly into immortal and imperishable bodies. Nothing in Revelation chapters 19-22, Isaiah's Millennium passages or Ezekiel's later chapters, suggests that the immortal Elect live alongside mortal people.
kaoticprofit said:
I have a hard time to believe that a Christian would believe such a thing. That puts our bibles in about the same catergory as a fictitious childrens book. With that type of hermeneutic you can make up and believe anything you want since you completely disregard the inspiration of God's Holy Word.
Sad to see that you believe such a thing and makes your discernment of the holy scriptures completely bogus and useless. You need help.
I do not like your methods. You change Scripture in your signature and come to a faulty conclusion which you then teach as truth, and even broadcast on your avatar. You also cannot discuss ideas, but instead resort to attacking the man when you say I "disregard" Scripture, or that "I" need help. I suggest you take a long hard look at yourself before attempting to fix me into your image because I do not want to be like you.
No end-time linear narrative describes every possible event which happens at the end. I can compile a complete outline of events from the sequence of events and I've done that. But rather than talk about the methodology, or the eschatology it points to - everyone did their best to tear it down because it went against the grain of their own thinking.
_______________________________________________
Tribulation is shortened... shortened to 7 years.
According to Jesus, in Mt 24:15-21 He says the Great Tribulation does not start until after describing the abomination that causes desolation and He references Daniel. The reference has three possible sources; I can distill that to Daniel 9:27 by the original language in the book of Daniel. Thus, the Great Tribulation does not start until the midpoint of the one 'seven.'
The parallel narrative to the Olivet Discourse at this point is Rev 13:14-17. The talking image of the anti-Christ is the abomination and the two laws that go into effect make the Great Tribulation so terrible for ONLY the Elect. We are then told explicitly in John's narrative by God not to take the mark of the beast or worship his image. Such an act undoes all the faith one previously expressed for Jesus - ever. Once saved always saved? Nope, not if you take the mark or worship the image.
The Great Tribulation is shortened by the sudden arrival of the Day of the Lord which comes on an "unknown" day. The Great Tribulation is not seven years long. It is not even three and a half years long. It lasts some time, weeks and maybe months - only God the Father knows (Jesus doesn't even know!).
