ANTI-CATHOLICISM IN THE MEDIA

[BreadOfLife]

Well, I know you defend your denomination even with its faults. I defend unfettered- without the restraints of a denomination, the Word -solely. It -being infallible, I can not stumble over stumbling blocks of fallible men. And would NEVER use an imperfect example as a teacher. So, I understand the importance of TRUTH -unadulterated. With that said, what is ScottA? Sometimes he sounds Protestant and of one of its many sects, sometimes he sounds like a JW other times he sounds little Mormon and other times like a space cadet. He seems to be your primary adversary. It can appear to be staged, of course this is just an assumption on my part. Sometimes, ScottA can sound relatively sensible, then sound like he fell off the deep end. When I read the back and forth it sounds like you guys are creating a religious parody. I think some NEW blood needs to be infused. You have booth been here much longer than I- this has turned out to be a long drawn out religious parody. Amusing! God Bless!

I honestly don't know what faith tradition ScottA comes from.
ONE thing is for sure - he clings to a heresy regarding the Bodily Ascension of Christ.

Not sure why you object to our debate, though. This is a debate and discussion board.

As for your "unfettered" defense of the Word, solely - there are tens of thousands of perpetually-splintering Protestant sects who claim to do the same thing. However, the teach different doctrines - some that are as different as night and day - yet they ALL claim to have the "Truth". Then there is you, along with millions of other Lone Ranger Christians, each believing that he is taught from Scripture alone yet believed different things about it.

How can this be truth?

 

[BreadOfLife]

Another misinterpretation. 1 Thes. 4:13-18 does not refer to Christians only, but to Israel, who are the dead in Christ, those born under the first Adam. The living in Christ, are defined as living, because they are born [again] under the Last Adam (a life-giving spirit). - There's that word again (spirit)!

These are the first who are last, and the last who are first (the firstborn of the spirit, His heavenly church).

However, there is no "soul sleep", for that is the mind of the flesh, who live according to the world and its would-be timeline.

The only glorified body, is Christ's body in His heavenly glory - which is the glory of the Father, whom is spirit. The flesh profits nothing.

This is a ridiculous interpretation - and one that was never held by the Early Church. As a matter of fact, the Early Church Fathers held to the orthodox Christian interpretation of the resurrection of the body.

The Apostles’ Creed
"I believe in . . . the forgiveness of sins, the resurrection of the flesh. Amen" (Old Roman Symbol [A.D. 125]).

Polycarp of Smyrna
"Whoever perverts the sayings of the Lord for his own desires, and says that there is neither resurrection nor judgment, such a one is the firstborn of Satan. Let us, therefore, leave the foolishness and the false-teaching of the crowd and turn back to the word which was delivered to us in the beginning" (Letter to the Philippians 7:1–2 [A.D. 135]).

Aristides
"Christians have the commandments of the Lord Jesus Christ himself impressed upon their hearts, and they observe them, awaiting the resurrection of the dead and the life of the world to come" (Apology 15 [A.D. 140]).

Second Clement
"Let none of you say that this flesh is not judged and does not rise again. Just think: In what state were you saved, and in what state did you recover your [spiritual] sight, if not in the flesh? In the same manner, as you were called in the flesh, so you shall come in the flesh. If Christ, the Lord who saved us, though he was originally spirit, became flesh and in this state called us, so also shall we receive our reward IN THE FLESH. Let us, therefore, love one another, so that we may all come into the kingdom of God" (Second Clement 9:1–6 [A.D. 150]).

Justin Martyr
"the second will take place when, in accord with prophecy, he shall come from the heavens in glory with his angelic host, when he shall raise the bodies of all the men who ever lived. Then he will clothe the worthy in immortality, but the wicked, clothed in eternal sensibility, he will commit to the eternal fire along with the evil demons" (First Apology 52 [A.D. 151]).

"Indeed, God calls even the body to resurrection and promises it everlasting life. When he promises to save the man, he thereby makes his promise to the flesh. What is man but a rational living being composed of soul and body? Is the soul by itself a man? No, it is but the soul of a man. Can the body be called a man? No, it can but be called the body of a man. If, then, neither of these is by itself a man, but that which is composed of the two together is called a man, and if God has called man to life and resurrection, he has called not a part, but the whole, which is the soul and the body" (The Resurrection 8 [A.D. 153]).

Tatian the Syrian
"We believe that there will be a resurrection of bodies after the consummation of all things" (Address to the Greeks 155 [A.D. 170]).

Theophilus of Antioch
"God will raise up your flesh immortal with your soul; and then, having become immortal, you shall see the immortal, if you will believe in him now; and then you will realize that you have spoken against him unjustly." (To Autolycus 1:7–8 [A.D. 181]).

Irenaeus
"For the Church, although dispersed throughout the whole world even to the ends of the earth, has received from the apostles and from their disciples the faith in . . . the raising up again of all flesh of all humanity, in order that to Jesus Christ our Lord and God and Savior and King, in accord with the approval of the invisible Father, every knee shall bend of those in heaven and on earth and under the earth, and that every tongue shall confess him, and that he may make just judgment of them all" (Against Heresies 1:10:1–4 [A.D. 189]).

Tertullian
"Therefore, the flesh shall rise again: certainly of every man, certainly the same flesh, and certainly in its entirety." (The Resurrection of the Dead 63:1 [A.D. 210]).

"In regard to that which is called the resurrection of the dead, it is necessary to defend the proper meaning of the terms ‘of the dead’ and ‘resurrection.’ The word ‘dead’ signifies merely that something has lost the soul, by the faculty of which it formerly lived. The term ‘dead’ then applies to a body. Moreover, if resurrection is of the dead, and ‘dead’ applies only to a body, the resurrection will be of a body. . . . ‘To rise’ may be said of that which never in any way fell, but which was always lying down. But ‘to rise again’ can only be said of that which has fallen; for by ‘rising again’ that which fell is said to ‘re-surrect.’ The syllable ‘re-’ always implies iteration [happening again]. We say, therefore, that a body falls to the ground in death . . . and that which falls, rises again" (Against Marcion 5:9:3–4 [A.D. 210]).

Minucius Felix
"The stars go out, but return again. Flowers die, but come to life again. After their decay shrubs put forth leaves again; not unless seeds decay does their strength return. A body in the grave is like the trees in winter: They hide their sap under a deceptive dryness. Why are you in haste for it to revive and return, while yet the winter is raw? We must await even the spring of the body. I am not ignorant of the fact that many, in the consciousness of what they deserve, would rather hope than actually believe that there is nothing for them after death. They would prefer to be annihilated rather than be restored for punishment" (Octavius 34:11–12 [A.D. 226]).

Aphraahat the Persian Sage
"But everything grows in accord with its own nature. So also the body which has been laid in the ground is the same which will rise again" (Treatises 8:3 [A.D. 340]).

(Continued on next post)

 

[BreadOfLife]

(Continuation)

Cyril of Jerusalem
"This body shall be raised, not remaining weak as it is now, but this same body shall be raised. By putting on incorruption, it shall be altered, as iron blending with fire becomes fire—or rather, in a manner the Lord who raises us knows. However it will be, this body shall be raised, but it shall not remain such as it is. Rather, it shall abide as an eternal body." (Catechetical Lectures 18:18 [A.D. 350]).

Epiphanius of Salamis
"As for those who profess to be Christians . . . and who confess the resurrection of the dead, of our body and of the body of the Lord . . . but who at the same time say that the same flesh does not rise, but other flesh is given in its place by God, are we not to say that this opinion exceeds all others in impiety" (The Man Well-Anchored 87 [A.D. 374]).

The Nicene Creed
"We confess one baptism for the forgiveness of sins; we look for a resurrection of the dead and life in the age to come. Amen" (Nicene Creed [A.D. 381]).

The Athanasian Creed
"[Jesus Christ] sits at the right hand of God the Father Almighty. From there he shall come to judge the living and the dead; at his coming all men have to rise again with their bodies and will render an account of their own deeds; and those who have done good will go into life everlasting, but those who have done evil, into eternal fire [Rom. 2:6–11]. This is the Catholic faith, unless everyone believes this faithfully and firmly, he cannot be saved" (Athanasian Creed [A.D. 400]).

Augustine
"Perish the thought that the omnipotence of the Creator is unable, for the raising of our bodies and for the restoring of them to life, to recall all [their] parts, which were consumed by beasts or by fire, or which disintegrated into dust or ashes, or were melted away into a fluid, or were evaporated away in vapors" (The City of God 22:20:1 [A.D. 419]).

"God, the wonderful and inexpressible Artisan, will, with a wonderful and inexpressible speed, RESTORE OUR FLESH from the whole of the material of which it was constituted, and it will make no difference to its reconstruction whether hairs go back to hairs and nails go back to nails, ETC." (Handbook of Faith, Hope, and Charity 23:89 [A.D. 421]).

Finally - as to your misinterpretation of John 6:63 - nobody said that the corruptible flesh profits anything. However, the Flesh of Jesus profits is EVERYTHING because it was by the Sacrifice of that flesh that we have eternal life.

 

[EndTimeWine]

I honestly don't know what faith tradition ScottA comes from.
ONE thing is for sure - he clings to a heresy regarding the Bodily Ascension of Christ.

Not sure why you object to our debate, though. This is a debate and discussion board.

As for your "unfettered" defense of the Word, solely - there are tens of thousands of perpetually-splintering Protestant sects who claim to do the same thing. However, the teach different doctrines - some that are as different as night and day - yet they ALL claim to have the "Truth". Then there is you, along with millions of other Lone Ranger Christians, each believing that he is taught from Scripture alone yet believed different things about it.

How can this be truth?

Agree on the Bodily Ascension of our Lord, HE ASCENDED, Christianity 101. I did not say I object to your debate. I am not Protestant, splintered or otherwise. I have the TRUTH because I believe in the Dogma of the faith- given by the only authority. I Love Holy Mother Miriam(Mary) , I love the saints, I do not agree with ALL POPES. Anyone who lives and speaks the Word I am for, I do NOT believe in ALL interpretations by Popes- of certain Dogma revealed by Holy Mother Miriam-or anointed persons to give messages to the Body of Christ. I believe in the Holy Trinity, I believe in the birth, life, death resurrection and ascension of my Lord. I believe wherever two or three gather in HIS NAME there too shall He be. My faith is not the measure of a mans short comings but the measure of PERFECTION in my Lord . I will NOT support for the sake of ANY denomination a spiritual shepherd who does NOT completely, and totally preach ONLY CHRIST. And I do NOT have to be of your denomination for my faith in CHRIST to be validated. If you can point out with scripture some LIE I have conveyed and uttered about Christ, go ahead and try,I am sure I stand on the Word which never fails. As for Lone Range every great saint that brought clarity to the world including the RCC were as such. I am in good company. I can never be alone for I am in my Lord and He in me, and I dwell with my family in the Spirit of Christ. Simply, I am Christian a member of the Body of Christ. God Bless!

 

[Ally.s.j]

He was 100% man and 100% God and they killed His body.

No they never killed His body. They could whip Him until now and not be able to kill Him.

 

[BreadOfLife]

Agree on the Bodily Ascension of our Lord, HE ASCENDED, Christianity 101. I did not say I object to your debate. I am not Protestant, splintered or otherwise. I have the TRUTH because I believe in the Dogma of the faith- given by the only authority. I Love Holy Mother Miriam(Mary) , I love the saints, I do not agree with ALL POPES. Anyone who lives and speaks the Word I am for, I do NOT believe in ALL interpretations by Popes- of certain Dogma revealed by Holy Mother Miriam-or anointed persons to give messages to the Body of Christ. I believe in the Holy Trinity, I believe in the birth, life, death resurrection and ascension of my Lord. I believe wherever two or three gather in HIS NAME there too shall He be. My faith is not the measure of a mans short comings but the measure of PERFECTION in my Lord . I will NOT support for the sake of ANY denomination a spiritual shepherd who does NOT completely, and totally preach ONLY CHRIST. And I do NOT have to be of your denomination for my faith in CHRIST to be validated. If you can point out with scripture some LIE I have conveyed and uttered about Christ, go ahead and try,I am sure I stand on the Word which never fails. As for Lone Range every great saint that brought clarity to the world including the RCC were as such. I am in good company. I can never be alone for I am in my Lord and He in me, and I dwell with my family in the Spirit of Christ. Simply, I am Christian a member of the Body of Christ. God Bless!

If you ARE a Christian and you're not a Catholic or belong to the Orthodox Churches - then you are a Protestant by definition.
The Catholic Church is not a "denomination". It is the Original Tree from which ALL others, including Protestantism splintered.

As for the great saints being "Lone Rangers" - they were not. They ALL submitted to the God-given Authority of Christ's Church (Matt. 16:18-19, Matt. 18:15-18, Luke 10:16, John 16:12-15, John 20:21-23).

Finally - unless you are Baptized - and I'm not saying you weren't - you cannot be a Christian. So, if you are Baptized - WHO baptized you?

 

[BreadOfLife]

No they never killed His body. They could whip Him until now and not be able to kill Him.

Soooo, you're saying that Jesus did NOT die on the cross?

 

[Ally.s.j]

ALL saved Christians - dead and alive - will receive glorified bodies at the Resurrection.
Unless you believe in the heresy of Soul Sleep - 1 Thess. 4:13-18 describes the process:

1 Thess. 4:13-18
Brothers and sisters, we do not want you to be uninformed about those who sleep in death, so that you do not grieve like the rest of mankind, who have no hope. For we believe that Jesus died and rose again, and so we believe that God will bring with Jesus those who have fallen asleep in him. According to the Lord’s word, we tell you that we who are still alive, who are left until the coming of the Lord, will certainly not precede those who have fallen asleep. For the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with the Lord forever. Therefore encourage one another with these words.

YOUR perversion is a relatively new invention in Church history. . .

I believe that you might not know that your flesh is not you. So when were told what you quoted. It means we in spirit. It make no mention in your quote of either so its not a good scipture for either case.

 

[Ally.s.j]

Soooo, you're saying that Jesus did NOT die on the cross?

Correct. But dont jump to conclusions, I am obviously touching something you never heard or understood. Nor the so called leaders that you hold in such high esteem

 

[EndTimeWine]

If you ARE a Christian and you're not a Catholic or belong to the Orthodox Churches - then you are a Protestant by definition.
The Catholic Church is not a "denomination". It is the Original Tree from which ALL others, including Protestantism splintered.

As for the great saints being "Lone Rangers" - they were not. They ALL submitted to the God-given Authority of Christ's Church (Matt. 16:18-19, Matt. 18:15-18, Luke 10:16, John 16:12-15, John 20:21-23).

Finally - unless you are Baptized - and I'm not saying you weren't - you cannot be a Christian. So, if you are Baptized - WHO baptized you?

No sorry! You are way off. I submit to the ONLY authority Yeshua. You can claim anything you want and call yourself and me whatever you want. And apply scripture to suit your opinion all you want. There is NO truth in your argument concerning denomination you belong to one.The only truth you have conveyed is the use of scripture . That in and of itself is always true but your false application and interpretation is what is lacking. The Catholic church is NOT the Tree of Life either. Especially when you cling to false Popes and their heresies. There is NO life in that. Not everyone who does not accept your twist and turns of scripture are Protestant. You are drunk with the maddening wine of YOUR DENOMINATIONS ADULTERIES. So, are you saying, Rev.22 :1-5 is the Catholic Church, and is the TREE OF LIFE IN GENESIS? Be careful ! Is the Catholic Church the ORIGINAL TREE OF LIFE? As for baptism, I was baptized , in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit.

 

[BreadOfLife]

Correct. But dont jump to conclusions, I am obviously touching something you never heard or understood. Nor the so called leaders that you hold in such high esteem

All I know is that Jesus Himself said that He was going to be put to death:
Luke 9:22
And he said, "The Son of Man must suffer many things and be rejected by the elders, the chief priests and the teachers of the law, and he must be killed and on the third day be raised to life."

There are several places in the Sacred Word of God that say he died:
Acts 10:39
"We are witnesses of everything he did in the country of the Jews and in Jerusalem. They killed him by hanging him on a cross,

Mark 15:37
With a loud cry, Jesus breathed his last.

1 Pet. 3:18
For Christ also suffered once for sins, the righteous for the unrighteous, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh but made alive in the spirit,

1 John 3:16
By this we know love, that he laid down his life for us, and we ought to lay down our lives for the brothers.

NOT sure which "Bible" you're reading . . .

 

[BreadOfLife]

I believe that you might not know that your flesh is not you. So when were told what you quoted. It means we in spirit. It make no mention in your quote of either so its not a good scipture for either case.

WRONG.
We are both flesh AND soul. Jesus is both as well.
The Scriptures are clear about this.

Can I ask you which faith Tradition you come from? JW? Mormon?

 

[BreadOfLife]

No sorry! You are way off. I submit to the ONLY authority Yeshua. You can claim anything you want and call yourself and me whatever you want. And apply scripture to suit your opinion all you want. There is NO truth in your argument concerning denomination you belong to one.The only truth you have conveyed is the use of scripture . That in and of itself is always true but your false application and interpretation is what is lacking. The Catholic church is NOT the Tree of Life either. Especially when you cling to false Popes and their heresies. There is NO life in that. Not everyone who does not accept your twist and turns of scripture are Protestant. You are drunk with the maddening wine of YOUR DENOMINATIONS ADULTERIES. So, are you saying, Rev.22 :1-5 is the Catholic Church, and is the TREE OF LIFE IN GENESIS? Be careful ! Is the Catholic Church the ORIGINAL TREE OF LIFE? As for baptism, I was baptized , in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit.

That's not what I said - so try to be honest here.

I said that the Catholic Church is the Original Tree from which Protestantism splintered. Protestantism didn't splinter from the Tree of Life - it splintered from the Catholic Church. This wording, by the way comes from Protestant historian Kenneth Samples in his treatise, "What Think Ye of Rome?".

Secondly, you say you follow ONLY the authority of Jesus - and He transferred complete Authority to His Church (Matt. 16:18-19, Matt. 18:15-18, Luke 10:16, John 16:12-15, John 20:21-23). If you reject the Authority of His Church - you reject HIS Authority and the Authority of the One who sent Him (Luke 10:16).

Finally - you completely dodged my question about WHO Baptized you. Jesus said that Baptism was a REQUIREMENT for salvation (Mark 16:16).
Now - if you reject all Church authority - WHO baptized you?

 

[Ally.s.j]

WRONG.
We are both flesh AND soul. Jesus is both as well.
The Scriptures are clear about this.

Can I ask you which faith Tradition you come from? JW? Mormon?

WRONG we are three. You order is also wrong.

We are spirit sould and body. I am a believer, nothing more and nothing less. I belong to no other. I dont do traditions either.

 

[EndTimeWine]

If you ARE a Christian and you're not a Catholic or belong to the Orthodox Churches - then you are a Protestant by definition.
The Catholic Church is not a "denomination". It is the Original Tree from which ALL others, including Protestantism splintered.

As for the great saints being "Lone Rangers" - they were not. They ALL submitted to the God-given Authority of Christ's Church (Matt. 16:18-19, Matt. 18:15-18, Luke 10:16, John 16:12-15, John 20:21-23).

Finally - unless you are Baptized - and I'm not saying you weren't - you cannot be a Christian. So, if you are Baptized - WHO baptized you?

Proverbs 3:11-20 My son do not despise the Lord's discipline or be weary of reproof, for the Lord reproves him whom He Loves, as a father the son in whom he delights. Happy is the man who finds WISDOM and the man who gets understanding, for gain from it is better than from silver and its profit better than gold. She is more precious than jewels , and nothing you desire can compare to her. Long LIFE is in HER RIGHT HAND; in her hand are riches and honor. Her ways, are ways of pleasantness, and ALL her paths are peace. SHE IS A TREE OF LIFE to those who lay hold of her; those who hold her fast are called happy. THE LORD BY WISDOM FOUNDED THE EARTH: by understanding He established the heavens; by His knowledge the deeps broke forth, and the clouds drop down the dew.

Are you sure the RCC or Catholic Church is the TREE OF LIFE? I thought it was WISDOM.

 

[BreadOfLife]

WRONG we are three. You order is also wrong.

We are spirit sould and body. I am a believer, nothing more and nothing less. I belong to no other. I dont do traditions either.

You don't do traditions??
Wanna bet??

Do you adhere to Scripture?
Do you believe in the Trinity. the word "Trinity" is a Catholic Tradition.

Do you accept Jesus as your "personal Lord and Savior"?
Do you believe in a Pre-Tribulation "Rapture"?
Do you believe you are “Covered with the righteousness of Christ”?
Do you believe in "Imputed righteousness"?
Do you believe in Sola Scriptura
Do you believe in Sola Fide?
Do you believe in Eternal Security?
These are all Protestant TRADITIONS.

 

[Ally.s.j]

All I know is that Jesus Himself said that He was going to be put to death:
Luke 9:22
And he said, "The Son of Man must suffer many things and be rejected by the elders, the chief priests and the teachers of the law, and he must be killed and on the third day be raised to life."

There are several places in the Sacred Word of God that say he died:
Acts 10:39
"We are witnesses of everything he did in the country of the Jews and in Jerusalem. They killed him by hanging him on a cross,

Mark 15:37
With a loud cry, Jesus breathed his last.

1 Pet. 3:18
For Christ also suffered once for sins, the righteous for the unrighteous, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh but made alive in the spirit,

1 John 3:16
By this we know love, that he laid down his life for us, and we ought to lay down our lives for the brothers.

NOT sure which "Bible" you're reading . . .

I never said He never died. I said the never took His life.

No man takes my life but I lay it down freely.
Most men died from the whipping. He was beaten bleed seven times, He was whiped, by His stripe. Singular. And that is another whole world you never got taught by your teachers. And he was nailed to the cross. And with a loud voice He gave uo the spirit. He gave it up. and with a loud voice to boot. No man gives it up with a loud voice in that condictions. Impossible. and He conqured death. Because an innocent man was nailed to a cross/tree.

paul was stoned and left for dead marched 50 miles and preached the next day. Impossible. When a man is in a right relationship with God and knows who he himself is in Christ. Nothing is impossible for that man. Anyman. Doesnt say nothing is imposible for God. It says man. Referring to a man in a right relationship with God. Who knows who he is in Christ. The catholic church does not have that anywhere in the church. So your teachers dont have that. Just aswell we aint waiting on them teaching us that. Time will tell. You quote how we should lay down our lives for our brothers . But in here you dont even like each other. Not everyone. But far to many.

 

[BreadOfLife]

Proverbs 3:11-20 My son do not despise the Lord's discipline or be weary of reproof, for the Lord reproves him whom He Loves, as a father the son in whom he delights. Happy is the man who finds WISDOM and the man who gets understanding, for gain from it is better than from silver and its profit better than gold. She is more precious than jewels , and nothing you desire can compare to her. Long LIFE is in HER RIGHT HAND; in her hand are riches and honor. Her ways, are ways of pleasantness, and ALL her paths are peace. SHE IS A TREE OF LIFE to those who lay hold of her; those who hold her fast are called happy. THE LORD BY WISDOM FOUNDED THE EARTH: by understanding He established the heavens; by His knowledge the deeps broke forth, and the clouds drop down the dew.

Are you sure the RCC or Catholic Church is the TREE OF LIFE? I thought it was WISDOM.

Why do you continue to violate God's Commandment against bearing FALSE witness?
Why do you LIE?
Read post #293, where I cleared up your false accusations . . .

 

[EndTimeWine]

That's not what I said - so try to be honest here.

I said that the Catholic Church is the Original Tree from which Protestantism splintered. Protestantism didn't splinter from the Tree of Life - it splintered from the Catholic Church. This wording, by the way comes from Protestant historian Kenneth Samples in his treatise, "What Think Ye of Rome?".

Secondly, you say you follow ONLY the authority of Jesus - and He transferred complete Authority to His Church (Matt. 16:18-19, Matt. 18:15-18, Luke 10:16, John 16:12-15, John 20:21-23). If you reject the Authority of His Church - you reject HIS Authority and the Authority of the One who sent Him (Luke 10:16).

Finally - you completely dodged my question about WHO Baptized you. Jesus said that Baptism was a REQUIREMENT for salvation (Mark 16:16).
Now - if you reject all Church authority - WHO baptized you?

Oh my misunderstanding. I do not reject the authority of His church,in scripture my authority is Christ and his message to His church is there. Not you or the Pope need to guide me, this is 21st century .And it is in these days that knowledge shall increase. Unfortunately for the RCC people can be governed by God outside of that denomination. Nice try. All I need to do is read what is taught in scripture to follow Christ I do not need a Papal head to understand the Word. I need not look everywhere, I know Yeshua is in His Father's house.

 

[BreadOfLife]

I never said He never died. I said the never took His life.

No man takes my life but I lay it down freely.
Most men died from the whipping. He was beaten bleed seven times, He was whiped, by His stripe. Singular. And that is another whole world you never got taught by your teachers. And he was nailed to the cross. And with a loud voice He gave uo the spirit. He gave it up. and with a loud voice to boot. No man gives it up with a loud voice in that condictions. Impossible. and He conqured death. Because an innocent man was nailed to a cross/tree.

paul was stoned and left for dead marched 50 miles and preached the next day. Impossible. When a man is in a right relationship with God and knows who he himself is in Christ. Nothing is impossible for that man. Anyman. Doesnt say nothing is imposible for God. It says man. Referring to a man in a right relationship with God. Who knows who he is in Christ. The catholic church does not have that anywhere in the church. So your teachers dont have that. Just aswell we aint waiting on them teaching us that. Time will tell. You quote how we should lay down our lives for our brothers . But in here you dont even like each other. Not everyone. But far to many.

WRONG.
That's NOT what you said.

In post #287, I asked you:
"Soooo, you're saying that Jesus did NOT die on the cross?"

In post #289, YOU responded with:
"Correct. But dont jump to conclusions, I am obviously touching something you never heard or understood. Nor the so called leaders that you hold in such high esteemI asked you"

Here's a little advice for you: If you're going to attempt to debate - make sure you at lest TRY to be honest.
It's always embarrassing when you get caught . . .