Atheist objections to evidence for God's existence

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Truth OT

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However, there is historical, archeological, and prophetic evidence that suggest the bible is true. This subjective evidence lends credibility to the bible, but its not definitive proof.

The evidences mentioned above has some level of objectivity, especially when compared with personal feelings and beliefs. There is tons of evidence that provides not only backing, but proof that certain things in the Bible were historical, but those same evidences show that there are flawed biblical narratives as well. None of the evidence supports any of the supernatural claims, however.

There aren't any scientific facts that tell us how everything originated, how we got here, the meaning of life, or our purpose. So for myself, the bible is the best explanation.

I 100% agree with the 1st sentence. Science doesn't reveal purpose, but so. We get the privileged of living a life that is distinctly ours where we can develop priorities and give meaning and purpose for our being. That's pretty cool.
The Bible offers an explanation for origins, but what it offers may not be accurate. After much examination, it has been found that the biblical explanations are flawed, man-inspired attempts to speak for deity that may or may not exist.

Its also relevant that God reveals himself to those who seek Him (knocks). He is revealed in spirit & truth, not physical observation, science, or tangible evidence. The indwelling of the Holy Spirit and revelation of scripture is what opens the eyes of those who earnestly seek him. Belief is ultimately a choice, and we are called by faith for good reasons.. jmo

Thank you for being honest Dan. I respect your right to the OPINION you expressed above. I just don't believe that that opinion is correct and is based in fact. When I post, I'm not necessarily asking for a person to prove or disprove deity, instead, I'm asking for them to support THEIR OPINIONS about what they assert about deity with facts from reality.
 
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Truth OT

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Oh...and if we are talking about me... I do NOT "believe", I know.
Please DEMONSTRATE your knowledge. If I tell you I know how to bake a cake and you ask me to, I can demonstrate. If I tell you I know the President, I can demonstrate that as well. Why is asking you to prove that what you claim is true so hard for you if you really know what you claim you know?

All, please be advised that what you believe and what you know are often mutually exclusive.
 

ScottA

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What makes your personal testimony credible evidence?
It is personal, that is how it works. So, as proof, it is only proof to me, just as it is with all who come to know God personally.

But to answer your question, my testimony comes from experience. Call it a religious experience if you like. Anyway, my experience with God was more real than my experience with the world. No contest. No further questions.
 
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ScottA

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Please DEMONSTRATE your knowledge. If I tell you I know how to bake a cake and you ask me to, I can demonstrate. If I tell you I know the President, I can demonstrate that as well. Why is asking you to prove that what you claim is true so hard for you if you really know what you claim you know?

All, please be advised that what you believe and what you know are often mutually exclusive.
The answer to "Why is asking me to prove what I would claim" (although I claimed nothing but to know the truth), is not "hard" for me...but rather it is impossible for you. Likewise, if you were blind and asked a sighted person why is it so hard for them to prove to you what it is they see...it is not the sighted person who has a hard time, but rather the blind person.

But you, being blind to God ask as if you were asking about something you could feel or smell or touch--but you are not, you are asking for something you yourself cannot see. Under these very simple circumstances, you make yourself out to be less than logical, less than intelligent, less than cognitive, showing no ability to grasp or learn anything other than those things within your own limitations. Moreover, you seem to think it should all be according to you and on your terms, rather than the reality that goes well beyond you. That is just foolish.

But, even so, I don't see you that way, therefore I said, "Change your approach."

Imagine that you are blind.
 
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Truth OT

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The answer to "Why is asking me to prove what I would claim" (although I claimed nothing but to know the truth), is not "hard" for me...but rather it is impossible for you. Likewise, if you were blind

That's the exact claim in question Scott! You say you know something and you are being ask to prove that what you claim to know is in accordance with objective, demonstrable truth.

But you, being blind
Yet another claim you've failed to demonstrate is true. What I and others ARE blind to is what's happening in Scott's mind.
 

ScottA

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That's the exact claim in question Scott! You say you know something and you are being ask to prove that what you claim to know is in accordance with objective, demonstrable truth.


Yet another claim you've failed to demonstrate is true. What I and others ARE blind to is what's happening in Scott's mind.
Read my lips: Those are your terms. They don't apply.

What you are blind to is the greater and actual reality of life. And it is you who have a mind issue, limited to the most elementary principles that were contrived for a purpose you do not understand. But because you are stuck on your own terms, you are experiencing endless error and folly as if insane.

You have not changed your approach to align with the matter at hand.
 

Truth OT

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What you are blind to is the greater and actual reality of life. And it is you who have a mind issue, limited to the most elementary principles that were contrived for a purpose you do not understand. But because you are stuck on your own terms, you are experiencing endless error and folly as if insane.

You can't explain, so you divert and attack me to hide the fact that you can't show why your reasoning is correct. I'm just making the request made in Isaiah 1:18...........
 

ScottA

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You can't explain, so you divert and attack me to hide the fact that you can't show why your reasoning is correct. I'm just making the request made in Isaiah 1:18...........
No, you either have a guilt complex and are blaming anyone but yourself, or that is just another dodge away from facing the truth that is as old and obvious as time.

If you were to actually want to reason together, you would not demand conditions and your own terms, but would actually be open to things you have not imagined. The wall you face is within you. It is you who will need to drop it in order to engage in reason. Let me know when and if you are ready.
 

ScottA

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What have I dodged and not addressed directly?
You have dodged the terms, which is the context and the reality.

Which ironically means you are caught up in an imaginary world oblivious to the greater reality of life. You exist in a fishbowl of sorts in fishbowl terms, and you will never understand anything more until you are open to the idea of oceans and the greater reality beyond all that you know. As open and reasonable as you think you are, you have yet to allow even the slightest consideration of changing your own terms. The limit is you.
 
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Dan57

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The evidences mentioned above has some level of objectivity, especially when compared with personal feelings and beliefs. There is tons of evidence that provides not only backing, but proof that certain things in the Bible were historical, but those same evidences show that there are flawed biblical narratives as well. None of the evidence supports any of the supernatural claims, however.

I 100% agree with the 1st sentence. Science doesn't reveal purpose, but so. We get the privileged of living a life that is distinctly ours where we can develop priorities and give meaning and purpose for our being. That's pretty cool.
The Bible offers an explanation for origins, but what it offers may not be accurate. After much examination, it has been found that the biblical explanations are flawed, man-inspired attempts to speak for deity that may or may not exist.

Thank you for being honest Dan. I respect your right to the OPINION you expressed above. I just don't believe that that opinion is correct and is based in fact. When I post, I'm not necessarily asking for a person to prove or disprove deity, instead, I'm asking for them to support THEIR OPINIONS about what they assert about deity with facts from reality.

As I mentioned, there is no objective evidence or verifiable facts that substantiate the bible, but there is subjective evidence in the form of historical, archeological, and prophetic accuracy. When you read Isaiah 53 or the 22nd Psalm, which accurately describes the crucifixion over 1000 years before it happened, that to me is divine evidence. When written, crucifixion was not even a known form of execution, and it even describes the Roman soldiers gambling for his cloak; "They part my garments among them, and cast lots upon my vesture" Psalm 22:18) verses "And they crucified him, and parted his garments, casting lots" (Matthew 27:35). There is absolutely no way that those Roman soldiers could have known they were fulfilling prophecy. All the fulfilled prophesies about Christ lend credibility to the bible, not to mention Daniel's prophecies and Isaiah, who foretold of King Cyrus of Persia by name, over 200 years before he was born, and that he would conquer the Babylonians (Isaiah 45). While not definitive proof, these things certainly could not have been predicted in the absence of divine influence.

Nearly all of the cities in the New Testament have been found , even cities like Jericho & Hebron of the OT.. A plaque was found with King Davids name on it and a stone plaque dating from the time of Christ was found in Caesarea naming Pontius Pilate prefect of the Roman province of Judaea. The High Priest Joseph Caiaphas was also confirmed. So these were real places and real people existing in Jesus day, not fabricated characters made up for an imaginary story. Sometimes the absence of evidence to disprove something suggest validity to what's recorded, e.g; the miracle that Christ rose from the grave could be disproven if someone could produce a body. There's just too many unexplained remarkable coincidences to conclude that the gospels aren't accurate and true.
 

ScottA

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Are you able to clarify this?
Sure.

The world, the universe, life as you know it, does not operated by the terms that you have adopted from living here and your little sliver of it. But here you are expecting that whenever you get to a detail you don't understand, you default to what would appear to be intellectual, scientific, learned, but naive terms for establishing truth by the typical five senses and their schools of thought and theory. And, no, I am not going to quote any of them. There are 24 pages in this thread alone, and if you do not know your own reaction and position, then you can just suffer the loss of my pointing it out without being more specific. Besides, I have been specific, I am just not going to go back over what you should very well know.

Now, moving forward. None of what is covered here in these forums is rooted in what the typical five senses cover. That assumption places you out of context. On the contrary, the subject here is spiritual. God is spirit. And you asking for proof or evidence out of context, is not any gauge of the evidence, but of your own inability to perceive the correct context. You may as well stand on the seashore and demand English of fish, in order to understand their watery world. Just showing up here with your own facilities is not enough.

Allow me to turn the tables on you. If you were a fish listening to a blind person who had waded out a ways, but still had their feet firmly planted on terra firma, asking fish to use land-based, terrestrial terms to explain an ocean they could not see...what would you recommend, what would you expect?

Be honest.
 

Truth OT

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Now, moving forward. None of what is covered here in these forums is rooted in what the typical five senses cover. That assumption places you out of context. On the contrary, the subject here is spiritual. God is spirit. And you asking for proof or evidence out of context, is not any gauge of the evidence, but of your own inability to perceive the correct context.

A spirit by definition is an unseen force or power like the wind. Proof of "spirit" can be observed even if the "spirit" itself is not visible. Saying "this is my claim, it's true, you can't rebut it or understand it because it's spiritual" does nothing to help demonstrate the veracity of your assertion. What it does do is demonstrate one's ability to create a strawman so they don't have to address the content. Some would call it a cop out.


You may as well stand on the seashore and demand English of fish, in order to understand their watery world. Just showing up here with your own facilities is not enough.

Allow me to turn the tables on you. If you were a fish listening to a blind person who had waded out a ways, but still had their feet firmly planted on terra firma, asking fish to use land-based, terrestrial terms to explain an ocean they could not see...what would you recommend, what would you expect?

I'm not in the ocean speaking to fish though. I've wadded out to where other PEOPLE are and I'm addressing those PEOPLE who CLAIM THEY CAN COMMUNICATE WITH FISH. And to this point, none of those people have been able to demonstrate that:

1. The specific fish that they claim to communicate with is in the ocean
2. That they can communicate with ANY fish
3. That they are in ANY way accurate as it relates to what THEY CLAIM about the existence, will, and communication coming from the mystery fish they assert.
 
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ScottA

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A spirit by definition is an unseen force or power like the wind. Proof of "spirit" can be observed even if the "spirit" itself is not visible. Saying "this is my claim, it's true, you can't rebut it or understand it because it's spiritual" does nothing to help demonstrate the veracity of your assertion. What it does do is demonstrate one's ability to create a strawman so they don't have to address the content. Some would call it a cop out.
One thing at a time.

You are under the wrong impression, under the impression that God and those who are His, are out to "win" souls; that history is what we choose, whether it be God or not.

On the contrary, history is simply the revelation of what is, unfolded in story form. History is His story.

And we are not "claiming" anything, but rather stepping up and stating the facts, just in case that was meant to be our part. But really, whether we are of God or not, we are all just doing what we do, because of who we are. It's not a campaign, it's who we are. So, if you are just being your ungodly self, we are not here for you, but rather for those who are coming around to being who they actually are, but your comments are delaying them. We are a force for good.

On the other hand, maybe you are one of those who will come around eventually yourself. Either way, we are just sharing the good news that those who desire things to be better than the good and evil world as it is, can know that all that they hope for is coming soon.

So, no, "proof" is a joke.
 
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ScottA

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I'm not in the ocean speaking to fish though. I've wadded out to where other PEOPLE are and I'm addressing those PEOPLE who CLAIM THEY CAN COMMUNICATE WITH FISH. And to this point, none of those people have been able to demonstrate that:

1. The specific fish that they claim to communicate with is in the ocean
2. That they can communicate with ANY fish
3. That they are in ANY way accurate as it relates to what THEY CLAIM about the existence, will, and communication coming from the mystery fish they assert.
Well, no, in the analogy I gave you...we are not "claiming we can communicate with fish", we are fish. We returned to the sea, so to speak.

So:
  1. Does not apply.
  2. We communicate with each other just fine. Granted, we don't all agree with each other, but that is a different matter.
  3. Oh contraire...the accuracy you speak against has been establish down through all of history, greater than any scientific fact. Nonetheless, accuracy is not the point...certainly not our problem. It's like this: People start yelling that there is something going on outside; one says one thing, another says something else, and you run to the window and don't see anything. Yeah, well, you're blind. I said that. And as "proof" goes, you prove yourself as being blind. Still, the commotion should be obvious...but you, you even deny the commotion, and why? Because you, not us, but you, can't see what we see. Okay, so just go about your business then as if nothing were going on. Or...be smart enough to figure out that millions of people don't jump up and exclaim about nothing.
 

Truth OT

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Well, no, in the analogy I gave you...we are not "claiming we can communicate with fish", we are fish. We returned to the sea, so to speak.

Except in reality, you're not.

It's like this: People start yelling that there is something going on outside; one says one thing, another says something else, and you run to the window and don't see anything. Yeah, well, you're blind. I said that. And as "proof" goes, you prove yourself as being blind. Still, the commotion should be obvious...but you, you even deny the commotion, and why? Because you, not us, but you, can't see what we see. Okay, so just go about your business then as if nothing were going on. Or...be smart enough to figure out that millions of people don't jump up and exclaim about nothing.

I see, and I very likely see what you see. I just don't "see" why you explain what we both see the way you do. Your explanation lacks cred.
 

ScottA

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Except in reality, you're not.



I see, and I very likely see what you see. I just don't "see" why you explain what we both see the way you do. Your explanation lacks cred.
1. Look, if you can't get the analogy within the context of the analogy...that is your problem. But the point is, beyond the natural realm, there is another ultimately greater spiritual realm. And a person who is blind to it ought to listen to offers of help by analogy. Your choice. Your loss.

2. Then...you have been taken up above the earth in the spirit then and seen wonders beyond the sight of the natural world? Well, why didn't you say so? Ah, but you obviously have not...and so your answer and response is bogus and a lie. Nice try.