Calvinism?

[Episkopos]

You have not been here long enough to see some of the comments he puts for others. Wait until you disagree with him.

That's funny. I've tried talking with you...about basic things like reading things that are in the bible...without adding other words that change the basic and simple meaning.

It is impossible to reason with a person who is dishonest in their reading of the bible. Something has to happen for that to take place. Some form of indoctrination.

Some of the most successful preachers are like the amazing Kreskin...hypnotists.

They will get you to say to the person next to you...'I am seated with Christ in heaven"...now repeat that... again, again. This is a hypnotist technique....an indoctrination technique. So when a person thus hypnotized reads the verse about being seated with Christ...the thought is stronger than they can reason...I AM seated with Christ.

But as in any hypnotic state there is a way of snapping out of it...but I don't have that technique.

All that I can do is to try showing the scale...the difference, the comparisons from the bible to come around to a revelation of the truth whereby a person ACTUALLY experiences this truth. And in the meantime take on the abuse for trying to deprogramme a person for their good.

 

[Jun2u]

People espouse private interpretations.

Only to those who lack Bible knowledge. God is not a respecter of person.

So then the proof is in the testimony....both in the word AND experience.

There is really nothing new you said in your post, so I’ll just answer your last sentence. You truly come on strong to prove your lack of knowledge of Scripture. Every Christian knows we walk by faith and NOT by sight (experience).

To God Be The Glory

 

[Episkopos]

Only to those who lack Bible knowledge. God is not a respecter of person.



There is really nothing new you said in your post, so I’ll just answer your last sentence. You truly come on strong to prove your lack of knowledge of Scripture. Every Christian knows we walk by faith and NOT by sight (experience).

To God Be The Glory

But that faith must be informed by experience...otherwise what is your faith getting you? Many walk in their beliefs...a human belief. We see religious fanatics in other religions that are fully engaged in their beliefs about God. They are waiting for the next life for their first glimpse at the truth.

But many Christians are also satisfied that their strongly held beliefs have no way of being checked out in this life.

So we are not to walk in our beliefs...but a faith that takes us into the miraculous world of a walk in Christ Jesus.

Do you not read of the miraculous things done by faith in Christ. But do you ever wonder at the kind of faith it takes to do those things? Is it just a stubborn human belief?

Or does real grace (power) come by having real faith. Jesus describes the kind of faith that pleases God. This faith moves things. This faith moves God from His throne. For this faith God will move mountains. How unlike this faith is from a mere human belief.

A person who teaches the things of God must know God and walk in His life. Otherwise it is vain religion.

 

[bbyrd009]

but God cannot “LOOK” at sin BECAUSE HE is a HOLY GOD!

There lies the distinction!!! Why not admit you have no knowledge what the Bible contains let alone teach it.

did you eat from that tree I told you not to? Gee, I must be looking at your sin then huh

but ty for trying anyway ok, i know the v is often confusing

 

[bbyrd009]

That's funny. I've tried talking with you...about basic things like reading things that are in the bible...without adding other words that change the basic and simple meaning.

It is impossible to reason with a person who is dishonest in their reading of the bible. Something has to happen for that to take place. Some form of indoctrination.

Some of the most successful preachers are like the amazing Kreskin...hypnotists.

They will get you to say to the person next to you...'I am seated with Christ in heaven"...now repeat that... again, again. This is a hypnotist technique....an indoctrination technique. So when a person thus hypnotized reads the verse about being seated with Christ...the thought is stronger than they can reason...I AM seated with Christ.

But as in any hypnotic state there is a way of snapping out of it...but I don't have that technique.

All that I can do is to try showing the scale...the difference, the comparisons from the bible to come around to a revelation of the truth whereby a person ACTUALLY experiences this truth. And in the meantime take on the abuse for trying to deprogramme a person for their good.

imo suggesting that a determinist cross the Sea of Reeds is like suggesting a plantation owner embrace emancipation

 

[bbyrd009]

But that faith must be informed by experience...otherwise what is your faith getting you? Many walk in their beliefs...a human belief. We see religious fanatics in other religions that are fully engaged in their beliefs about God. They are waiting for the next life for their first glimpse at the truth.

But many Christians are also satisfied that their strongly held beliefs have no way of being checked out in this life.

So we are not to walk in our beliefs...but a faith that takes us into the miraculous world of a walk in Christ Jesus.

Do you not read of the miraculous things done by faith in Christ. But do you ever wonder at the kind of faith it takes to do those things? Is it just a stubborn human belief?

Or does real grace (power) come by having real faith. Jesus describes the kind of faith that pleases God. This faith moves things. This faith moves God from His throne. For this faith God will move mountains. How unlike this faith is from a mere human belief.

A person who teaches the things of God must know God and walk in His life. Otherwise it is vain religion.

nice contrast of faith and beliefs imo. I love the parable of faith moving mountains into the sea, because it mirrors a then-contemporary Roman port project on the coast, Caesarea or somewhere, i forget, some huge project that everyone would have been reminded of @ hearing the parable, where a mountain basically was levelled to fill in the port. The point being it is presented as a "miracle" to us, but to the original hearers it meant something different. Yes, Caesarea, by Herod the Great, so the previous generation basically. there is another passage that mentions houses built on sand, sinking, which Herod's Caesarea was doing too i guess, not sure what to make of point 1 in light of point 2 though

 

[Episkopos]

nice contrast of faith and beliefs imo. I love the parable of faith moving mountains into the sea, because it mirrors a then-contemporary Roman port project on the coast, Caesarea or somewhere, i forget, some huge project that everyone would have been reminded of @ hearing the parable, where a mountain basically was levelled to fill in the port. The point being it is presented as a "miracle" to us, but to the original hearers it meant something different. Yes, Caesarea, by Herod the Great, so the previous generation basically. there is another passage that mentions houses built on sand, sinking, which Herod's Caesarea was doing too i guess, not sure what to make of point 1 in light of point 2 though

I don't know about Caesarea being in the back of Jesus' mind...I was thinking more like Mount Zion...

Ps. 125:1 They that trust in Jehovah Are as mount Zion, which cannot be moved, but abideth for ever.

I think it was to show that faith is NOT human belief and opinions. Faith moves the immovable. Faith moves God.

 

[bbyrd009]

I don't know about Caesarea being in the back of Jesus' mind...I was thinking more like Mount Zion...

the name of the mountain that was levelled is still available even i guess, Caesarea was a Roman wonder and would have been like less than 50 years old at the time
https://www.google.com/search?q=Cae...er&aqs=chrome..69i57&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8

 

[bbyrd009]

there is another passage that mentions houses built on sand, sinking

possibly the famous one too, but there is some direct ref @ "sinking below the sea" somewhere too, i forget where

 

[Jun2u]

did you eat from that tree I told you not to? Gee, I must be looking at your sin then huh

but ty for trying anyway ok, i know the v is often confusing

God was NOT looking at their sin rather at their disobedience to His command not to eat from the tree.

Secondly, Scripture is never confusing. Either we know the meaning or not. God didn’t just give us His Word and put them in a book then leave us on our own. He gave the meaning also, but we must search it out and with prayer to the Holy Spirit to open our spiritual eyes.

To God Be The Glory

 

[Mjh29]

You're coming across to me as mocking, disrespectful, and judgmental in this post. This thread shows all that's wrong with dividing the body of Christ. When will it end???

The SCRIPTURES are coming across as mocking and disrespectful? Well, I am terribly sorry that you feel that this is the problem, but this is actually the solution.

Luke 12:51 -- 51 Do you think I came to bring peace on earth? No, I tell you, but division. 52From now on there will be five in one family divided against each other, three against two and two against three. 53They will be divided, father against son and son against father, mother against daughter and daughter against mother, mother-in-law against daughter-in-law and daughter-in-law against mother-in-law.”

Not everyone who claims to be a christian is a christian, and there are major heresies even today that are accepted as Christian truth. The delusion that everyone who claims to be a christian can all just 'get along' is not true. There are many disagreements, and unfortunately for the church, we have chosen to lean more towards the self-salvation side of the spectrum, which is a very destructive heresy.

 

[bbyrd009]

God was NOT looking at their sin rather at their disobedience to His command

ah, of course, ty, how silly of me!

 

[Prayer Warrior]

The SCRIPTURES are coming across as mocking and disrespectful? Well, I am terribly sorry that you feel that this is the problem, but this is actually the solution.

Luke 12:51 -- 51 Do you think I came to bring peace on earth? No, I tell you, but division. 52From now on there will be five in one family divided against each other, three against two and two against three. 53They will be divided, father against son and son against father, mother against daughter and daughter against mother, mother-in-law against daughter-in-law and daughter-in-law against mother-in-law.”

Not everyone who claims to be a christian is a christian, and there are major heresies even today that are accepted as Christian truth. The delusion that everyone who claims to be a christian can all just 'get along' is not true. There are many disagreements, and unfortunately for the church, we have chosen to lean more towards the self-salvation side of the spectrum, which is a very destructive heresy.

No, MJ, it's not the scripture that came across as mocking; it's obviously how he used the verse that came across as mocking--what he underlined. (He implied that Epi is not "respectable" among other things.) To me that's more offensive than if he hadn't used a Bible verse at all!

The verse you quoted in Luke is about non-Christians turning against Christians, not about divisions within the true body of Christ caused by denominational differences. Paul warns Christians to avoid divisions in the church.

1 Cor. 1:10-15 keeps coming to mind as I've read through this thread.

Now I urge you, brothers and sisters, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that all of you agree in what you say, that there be no divisions among you, and that you be united with the same understanding and the same conviction. 11 For it has been reported to me about you, my brothers and sisters, by members of Chloe’s people, that there is rivalry among you. 12 What I am saying is this: One of you says, “I belong to Paul,” or “I belong to Apollos,” or “I belong to Cephas,” or “I belong to Christ.” 13 Is Christ divided? Was Paul crucified for you? Or were you baptized in Paul’s name? 14 I thank God that I baptized none of you except Crispus and Gaius, 15 so that no one can say you were baptized in my name.​

Isn't that what we're doing when we identify as Calvinists or Arminians or Methodists.... In effect, Christians are saying, "I belong to Calvin" or "I belong to Arminius" or "I belong to Wesley." But was Calvin crucified for you? Or were you baptized in Calvin's name?

The sad thing is that as Christians, you and I probably agree on more than we disagree on, scripturally speaking, but I won't take the Calvinist label. So, it really doesn't seem to matter to you what I believe.

 

[Rodney Anderson]

I'm new to this sight and a first timer and have never heard of calvinism till recently.Here are some questions i have

#1 If we humans are totally depraved the why did god say about Adam He will be like us knowing both good and evil
#2 Is it possible the all sovereign God could create us with freewill
#3 And it seems to me reading the bible, the Elect are jews that will not stumble or be blinded[the apostles and other followers]. In order to bring Gospel to the gentile to fulfill prophesy[and to write the new testament for us the world]
Note When I AM lifted up i will call all people

 

[Helen]

Hello @Rodney Anderson

......

 

[Prayer Warrior]

I'm new to this sight and a first timer and have never heard of calvinism till recently.Here are some questions i have

#1 If we humans are totally depraved the why did god say about Adam He will be like us knowing both good and evil
#2 Is it possible the all sovereign God could create us with freewill
#3 And it seems to me reading the bible, the Elect are jews that will not stumble or be blinded[the apostles and other followers]. In order to bring Gospel to the gentile to fulfill prophesy[and to write the new testament for us the world]
Note When I AM lifted up i will call all people

Hi, Rodney, welcome to the forum! You may want to browse back through this thread. It was a very looooong debate between Calvinists and non-Calvinists. I'm with you. I have some real problems with some of Calvin's main ideas, but I'm not up for getting back into the debate. Maybe some others will want to. Anyway, have fun!

 

[CoreIssue]

I'm new to this sight and a first timer and have never heard of calvinism till recently.Here are some questions i have

#1 If we humans are totally depraved the why did god say about Adam He will be like us knowing both good and evil

Because calvinism cannot work if we have a true choice, meaning a freewill.
#2 Is it possible the all sovereign God could create us with freewill

He did. We are not the robots of calvinism. It is impossible to truly know if we have no choice.
#3 And it seems to me reading the bible, the Elect are jews that will not stumble or be blinded[the apostles and other followers]. In order to bring Gospel to the gentile to fulfill prophesy[and to write the new testament for us the world]

There are both Jewish and gentile elect. Read romans 8 get a better handle on it.
Note When I AM lifted up i will call all people

 

[Prayer Warrior]

Come on, Core Issue, why don't you engage in a discussion?

 

[CoreIssue]

Come on, Core Issue, why don't you engage in a discussion?

Was that sarcasm..... Humor?

You sure could not be serious.

 

[Phoneman777]

It's a mind field out there. I don't think I could ever be a Christian based on what I've seen of Sunday Christianity. Only when I could see through what men have done with the faith...through actual encounter with God...could I see my way through the quagmire.

An encounter through reading His word, right? Because Satan is a master of deception and "experiential religion" is his most powerful weapon in his Luciferian arsenal.

You may not know this, but Luther and Loyola were contemporary Catholics, both seeking desperately to be accepted of God by some sign from above. Eventually, Luther's faith fell completely upon the promises of Scripture, while Loyola finally got his "signs from above" (which were actually from Satan). His "Spiritual Exercises of Loyola" were just washed down versions of the same old ancient occult worship, yet not only has it permeated Catholicism, but has infected Protestantism with things like "the Alpha Course", the "Ecumenical Movement", "Toronto Blessing", and all things charasmatic, while faith in Biblical truth and promises is marginalized.