Can Jesus Christ Second Return Happen at ANY Moment? Pt. 2

[Eccl.12:13]

PART 2
Time, Times and the dividing of Time.


I am sure, some of you at the beginning of this lesson said to yourselves, “This guy has really gotten caught up in some sort of cult. How can he say, when Christ’s second coming is going to happen? No one knows that, it says so in the bible” Well, you are correct. No one knows when Jesus will return. But, if you read what I said above carefully, you will notice, I didn’t say that I knew WHEN Christ was coming. What I said was, I know for a fact He cannot come within the next three years. And yes there is a difference. Now this I can prove with the word of God. I just hope and pray you’ve stayed with me up to this point.

God has given us many signs and warnings so that we can know, for sure, when Abomination of Desolation (AOD) is on the scene. Well, just as He has given us the signs for the AOD, He also gave us other warnings and signs of His second coming. Let’s go back to the book of Matthew to learn more.

After Jesus warns the disciples about the AOD, he then gives them another warning:

Matt 24:21. For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

So AFTER the AOD has been made known, there will be a time on earth, that has been like no other time since the beginning of time, and there will never be a time like it again. Needless to say, whatever time Christ is speaking of, it can only happen ONCE!!! There can’t be (2) times like this! And God's word does not say anything about a "first half, or second half" there is just the ONE time know as "The Great Tribulation Period. Let’s read and see if Daniel can shed more light on a time such as this.

We find Daniel continuing with his dream:

Dan 12:1. And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time

So here we find an event that shall come that has never happen until Daniels times, nor since there has ever been a nation, and not even to the time Daniel is dreaming about. Jesus called that time, a time of great tribulation. Daniel referred to it as a time of trouble. The two events must be one in the same. Which can only mean it will happen one time only. Again, you can’t have an event such as this that happens TWICE!! Let’s continue with Daniel’s dream.

Dan 12:5. Then I Daniel looked, and, behold, there stood other two, the one on this side of the bank of the river, and the other on that side of the bank of the river.

6 And one said to the man clothed in linen, which was upon the waters of the river, How long shall it be to the end of these wonders?

7 And I heard the man clothed in linen, which was upon the waters of the river, when he held up his right hand and his left hand unto heaven, and sware by him that liveth for ever that it shall be for a time, times, and an half;

After Daniel describes the onetime event he notices two men standing at the bank of the river. One man in the dream is asking, “…how long till the end of these wonders?”. And the other clothed in linen answers, “…for a time, times and a half ”. So now we know how long this, ‘time of trouble’ or time of ‘great tribulation’ will last. Let’s see if we can find that phrase elsewhere so we can find the meaning.

Dan 7:25. And he shall speak great words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws: and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time.

We have just found the AOD described again. And this time we are given a time frame to work with. We know just how long he will wear out the saints and speak against the most High: for, “…a time and times and the dividing of time.” This is the second time we have found this time reference in the scriptures. It must be explained.

Let’s do a quick review:

• We just learned that AFTER the AOD is revealed, there will be a time on this earth that has not happened since the beginning of the world and will never happen again. Jesus called that time, ‘great tribulation’ and Daniel referred to it as, ‘a time of trouble’.
• We learned that the time of ‘great tribulation’ will last for, “…a time, times, and an half.”
• And finally we found out the length of time the AOD will speak against the most High and wear out the saints: “…and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time.”

Is it possible that the time of great tribulation and the time when the AOD will prevail over the saints are one in the same? Let’s continue!

We have done a lot of searching in the OT. Let’s move on to the NT to see if we can get some answers. And since we are looking for answers to end time events, we will search the book of Revelations.

In the book of Rev., John is telling us of future events very similar to what Daniel gave us. Below we’ll read the portion of John’s vision where a woman is helped by God. Without getting to deep, the woman described hear is the church, or the saints of God.

Rev 12:6. And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and threescore days.

Now we have a time reference that we can work with. Wherever the wilderness is the woman is going to, it will be a place prepared by God and she will be feed there for 1260 days, or 3.5 years. Let’s read further.

Rev 12:14. And to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent.

So John restates the same story of the woman going into the wilderness, but this time he uses a different time reference. One we have seen (2) other times in the scriptures: time, and times, and half a time. We know the vision John is having is one of end time events. So how many times can the woman flee into the wilderness? Only once! This too is a one time event. Which means we now know how long all of the other events using the phrase, ‘time, times, and half a time’ will be: 1260 days, or 3.5 years.

So just how do we get 3.5 years out of ’time, times, and a half a time’? After all, we just can’t say something equals something else and have no bases for it! Well if we look at it, it’s all very simple. Time = (1) year. Times = (2) years. And a half of time = (½) year. Add them all up and we get 3.5 years. Need more proof? Let’s read more.

Let’s read further into Rev. What we are reading next is about a beast that rises out of the sea with (10) horns. A beast with 10 horns! Sounds familiar? Could it be that son of perdition, the AOD? Let’s find out!

Rev 13:5. And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months.

So this just confirms ALL we have just learned. The person above, we know is the AOD. And we just learned that power will be given to him for forty-two months. And just how long is forty-two month? You guessed it; 3.5 years. Let’s go back in the book of Daniel to see if he gives us any other time reference that is close to 3.5 years.

Dan 7:8. And I heard, but I understood not: then said I, O my Lord, what shall be the end of these things?

9. And he said, Go thy way, Daniel: for the words are closed up and sealed till the time of the end.

10. Many shall be purified, and made white, and tried; but the wicked shall do wickedly: and none of the wicked shall understand; but the wise shall understand.

11. And from the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolate set up, there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days.

Now we are given a time frame of 1,290 days, which is 30 days longer than the other events. But let’s read the 11th verse again:

11. And from the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolate set up,

So in this instance, the reference also includes the time that the AOD is, ‘set up’ or ‘placed‘. The AOD will not implement his rule the moment he is placed. Just as with the placement of any new ruler there will be cermonies and such. So we are still looking at a 3.5 year time frame. But where will he be set up? Let’s re-read a verse in II Thes;

II Thes 2:4. Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is
worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself
that he is God.

So just where is the temple of God? It is in the same place where the daily sacrifices will be started and then stopped. And the only place to perform the daily sacrifices is in the temple, that is yet to be built in Jerusalem. Yet another sign; the rebuilding of the Holy Temple. So is it all starting to come together?

There is one more event that is mentioned in the bible that will last for 3.5 years. And yes, it takes place at the same time as all of the others we have just learned about. To find it, let’s again go to the book of Rev.

Rev 11:3. 3. And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth.

6. These have power to shut heaven, that it rain not in the days of their prophecy: and have power over waters to turn them to blood, and to smite the earth with all plagues, as often as they will.
7. And when they shall have finished their testimony, the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit shall make war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them.

11. And after three days and an half the Spirit of life from God entered into them, and they stood upon their feet; and great fear fell upon them which saw them.

15. And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.

So not only will the AOD have power for 3.5 years, but God sends His two witnesses, and gives them power to prophesy and perform miracles for, ‘a thousand two hundred and threescore days.’ or 3.5 years.

During this 3.5 year tribulation period there will be those that understand, but if it were not for these (2) witnesses, prophesying and performing miracles, even they would soon believe that the AOD is god.

Again we see the AOD prevailing over the saints and winning. But now we also know what will happen 3 ½ days later. The breathe of God once again enters the two witnesses bodies and they are gathered.

And then the seventh angel sounds, and the kingdoms of the earth becomes the kingdoms of our Lord.

OK….we have just compiled a lot if information. Time for a review.

Earlier we identified the AOD by the signs given to us in the scriptures, which are the following: he will, (1) exalt himself above all that is called God, (2) make war with the saints and prevail against them, (3) do according to his will, (4) have power over ALL kindreds, tongues and nations, and (5) stop the daily sacrifice which will have been started in the temple in Jerusalem. II Thes 2:3, Dan 7:21, Dan 11:36, Rev 13:7 and Dan 8:11.

Jesus and Daniel both described a time of trouble that would happen on this earth that has never happened before and would never happen again. A onetime event! Matt 24:21 & Dan 12:1

In the book of Rev. we learned from the (2) descriptions of the woman fleeing to the wilderness that the phrase, ‘time, times and half a time.’ is equal to 3.5 years.

And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and threescore days. 3.5 years. Rev 12:6.

And to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent. 3.5 years. Rev 12:14.

Daniel was told in a dream that the time of trouble would last for, ‘…for a time, times, and an half;’
3.5 years. Dan 12:7.


Daniel was told in a dream that the AOD would speak great words against the most High and wear out and prevail over the saints for, ‘…a time and times and the dividing of time.’ 3.5 years. Dan 7:25.

It was revealed to John that the AOD would speak great things and blasphemies and that, ’… power was given unto him to continue forty and two months.” Forty-two months equals, 3.5 years. Rev 13:5.



It was revealed to Daniel that the AOD would, ‘…speak great words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws: and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time. 3.5 years. Dan 7:25

Daniel also tells us that the total time from the setting up of the AOD, until the time he take away the daily sacrifice, ‘…there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days.’ Remember this time also includes the time needed to set up the AOD. 3.5 years. Dan 7:11.

At the same time all of these events are taking place, God sends two witnesses to prophesy and perform miracles for, ’…a thousand two hundred and threescore days…’, or, 3.5 years, after which they are killed and raised up 3½ days later and gathered unto our Lord.

Continued in Part 3.




.

 

[veteran]

Sounds right so far, except for a problem about your rendering of the 1290 days timing...

Dan 11:31
31 And arms shall stand on his part, and they shall pollute the sanctuary of strength, and shall take away the daily sacrifice, and they shall place the abomination that maketh desolate.
(KJV)

Dan 12:11
11 And from the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolate set up, there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days.
(KJV)

The verse does not say from and to in the Hebrew, but time as in now and when, like... "When the daily sacrifice shall be taken away....".

I interpret the 1290 days to include the start time for the daily sacrifice, and then the event of their taking away and the AOD setup at the end of the period.

For example:

1290 day period starts:
a. daily sacrifices begin and last for 1290 days
b. the 1290 days ended BY the daily sacrifice being taken away and the AOD setup in its place.

The time from the start of the daily sacrifice to their end could be 1260 days, and the final 30 days a process of bringing in the Antichrist by the setting up of the AOD. That would mean the temple in Jerusalem is built and sacrifices in it are started up 1290 days prior to the start of the great tribulation. It would possibly mean the Antichrist does not arrive on the scene until 1260 days of the daily sacrifice in a rebuilt temple are already over.

That would align with the missing final "one week" period in Daniel 9:27, which each symbolic 'week' equals a 7 year period, and 2 x 1260 days = 7 years.

It would then suggest that the first mention of the woman fleeing into the wilderness of Rev.12:6 means the first 1260 days period, and then the final mention of a 1260 days later at Rev.12:14 would be the actual great tribulation period of power over the saints.

 

[Eccl.12:13]

That would align with the missing final "one week" period in Daniel 9:27, which each symbolic 'week' equals a 7 year period, and 2 x 1260 days = 7 years.

Dan. 9:27 has NOTHING to do with the Tribulation Period! Which is why I did not include it in this lesson.

If God wanted to tell us the Tribulation period was to last for 7 years he could just as easily have said, "two thousand five hundred and fifty and five days." Or, "Times, Times, Times and a Time." Or, "Eighty and Four months." But He did not. It would not have been hard to do, nor would it have been hard for us to figure out.

God tells us (6) times and in 3 different ways that the tribulation period WILL last for 3.5 years. He tells us in the OT! He tell us in the NT! He tells us using Days! He tells us using Months! He tells us using Years! Along with all He has given us, He even tells us what event to look for that will kick it all off! God tells us so many times and in so many ways it is almost HARD to miss. And yet there will still be those that will let someone do just what Jesus and Paul warned us about;

Matt.24
[4] And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you.

2Thes.2
[3] Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

I’m sorry to say, but if you have been taught, and believe, the tribulation period is going to last for 7 years…..YOU HAVE BEEN DECEIVED!!!

You will find yourself seeing events happening and THINKING you have another 3.5yrs until you must do something. If you do that you are going to end up having only TWO choices: You AND your family taking the mark, or dying for the name of Christ.


.

 

[veteran]

Dan. 9:27 has NOTHING to do with the Tribulation Period! Which is why I did not include it in this lesson.

If God wanted to tell us the Tribulation period was to last for 7 years he could just as easily have said, "two thousand five hundred and fifty and five days." Or, "Times, Times, Times and a Time." Or, "Eighty and Four months." But He did not. It would not have been hard to do, nor would it have been hard for us to figure out.

God tells us (6) times and in 3 different ways that the tribulation period WILL last for 3.5 years. He tells us in the OT! He tell us in the NT! He tells us using Days! He tells us using Months! He tells us using Years! Along with all He has given us, He even tells us what event to look for that will kick it all off! God tells us so many times and in so many ways it is almost HARD to miss. And yet there will still be those that will let someone do just what Jesus and Paul warned us about;

Matt.24
[4] And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you.

2Thes.2
[3] Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

I’m sorry to say, but if you have been taught, and believe, the tribulation period is going to last for 7 years…..YOU HAVE BEEN DECEIVED!!!

You will find yourself seeing events happening and THINKING you have another 3.5yrs until you must do something. If you do that you are going to end up having only TWO choices: You AND your family taking the mark, or dying for the name of Christ.


.

What you're interpreting Dan.12:11 to say, is that the daily sacrifice is ended and the abomination of desolation (your AOD) is setup at the BEGINNING of that 1290 days period, and that's the tribulation time upon the saints. I understand that.

But what period covers the time when the daily sacrifice start, with a rebuilt temple, all in order for the tribulation events to take place? Dan.9:27 covers it...


Dan 9:27
27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.
(KJV)

The Dan.9:27 verse is very relevant because it includes the event of the daily sacrifice being taken away and abominations being setup instead, which is pointing to the abomination of desolation, an idol, the "image of the beast" of Rev.13.

That final "one week" of Dan.9:27 MUST be accounted for in the prophecy, because it's part of the prophecy about the sacrifice being taken away, and the AOD being setup. But all you've covered is part of that "one week" period with 3.5 years.

The Dan.9:27 verse is also showing a previous period when a peace pact is made by the false one, and then in the midst of that "one week" he ends the sacrifice and places the AOD for 3.5 years.

Now then, IF that previous period of the peace pact being made in the middle of the "one week" does not exist like you infer, then those events MUST be included in with the 1290 days of Dan.12:11. That was my whole point.


The prophecy is actually covering a previous time of 1260 days PRIOR to the sacrifice ending. It is also covering a period of 1260 days AFTER the sacrifice has ended with the AOD being setup in its place, which is the actual 3.5 years tribulation period you speak of.

However, Christ said in Matt.24 that He shortened the days of the great tribulation timing, so that means the 3.5 years tribulation prophecy from Daniel has been shortened, but to what?


Matt 24:21-23
21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.
23 Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not.
(KJV)

That reveals the period that's been shortened is the period when the false one comes to do his thing. That's the 3.5 years you speak of.

 

[Eccl.12:13]

But what period covers the time when the daily sacrifice start, with a rebuilt temple, all in order for the tribulation events to take place? Dan.9:27 covers it...

Dan 9:27
27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.
(KJV)

Does God's word tell us WHEN the sacrifices will start? ANYWHERE?

You assume a temple is needed. A temple is not needed to start sacrfices. Almost every passover someone either tries to sacrifice a heifer or suggest it. And that is why NOWHERE will you find WHEN the sacrifices will start. The sign we are given is when the sacrifices will STOP!

However, Christ said in Matt.24 that He shortened the days of the great tribulation timing, so that means the 3.5 years tribulation prophecy from Daniel has been shortened, but to what?

Matt 24:21-23
21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.
23 Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not.
(KJV)

That reveals the period that's been shortened is the period when the false one comes to do his thing. That's the 3.5 years you speak of.

God will shorten the days, but where in God's word does it say that God will shorten the tribulation period by exactly 3.5yrs.

Like I said. Dan.9:27 has NOTHING to do with the tribulation period.

Go back and read what Daniel was praying about, where he got the notion to even question what he was praying about, and what was the answer given to him by Gabriel, and see at what point the answer consisted of the AoD or the tribulation period.

.

 

[veteran]

Does God's word tell us WHEN the sacrifices will start? ANYWHERE?

You assume a temple is needed. A temple is not needed to start sacrfices. Almost every passover someone either tries to sacrifice a heifer or suggest it. And that is why NOWHERE will you find WHEN the sacrifices will start. The sign we are given is when the sacrifices will STOP!

For Rev.11:1-2 to happen another Jewish temple is needed, along with its outer courts.

The sign of the sacrifice in Jerusalem being ended by the abomination of desolation being placed instead, AUTOMATICALLY requires a time when the sacrifice in Jerusalem is STARTED. Use your common sense, God expects us to understand, not follow legalism.

God will shorten the days, but where in God's word does it say that God will shorten the tribulation period by exactly 3.5yrs.

Like I said. Dan.9:27 has NOTHING to do with the tribulation period.

Go back and read what Daniel was praying about, where he got the notion to even question what he was praying about, and what was the answer given to him by Gabriel, and see at what point the answer consisted of the AoD or the tribulation period.

I don't know anywhere in Scripture that says our Lord shortened the tribulation time by a factor of 3.5 years. But He did give His saints to have an idea of how long it was shortened to. Yet I don't think you know, but should.

Daniel 9:27 has everything to do with the setting up of the abomination of desolation, simply because that event is mentioned in that verse. You shouldn't allow men's doctrines against how that verse has been abused by the pre-trib school get in your way of understanding it as part of the timing for the AOD event.

 

[Eccl.12:13]

For Rev.11:1-2 to happen another Jewish temple is needed, along with its outer courts.

The sign of the sacrifice in Jerusalem being ended by the abomination of desolation being placed instead, AUTOMATICALLY requires a time when the sacrifice in Jerusalem is STARTED. Use your common sense, God expects us to understand, not follow legalism.

I am using common sense....and the word of God. In order for the AOD to stop sacrifices they, at some point, must be started again. But does ANY of the signs given tell us to use the START of animal sacrifice as a time frame? No!

Does God word at ANY time tell us a temple MUST be built before animal sacrfices can take place? No!

So what does Rev.11:1-2 have to do with animal sacrifice? It mentions the temple, the court and the fact that the holy city will be under foot for 3.5yrs. Does it tell us when the sacrfices were started? No!

I don't know anywhere in Scripture that says our Lord shortened the tribulation time by a factor of 3.5 years. But He did give His saints to have an idea of how long it was shortened to. Yet I don't think you know, but should.

Why should I or anybody know by how short the Lord will shorten those days? One thing we do know is that the tribulation period WILL last for at least 3.5yrs.

Daniel 9:27 has everything to do with the setting up of the abomination of desolation, simply because that event is mentioned in that verse. You shouldn't allow men's doctrines against how that verse has been abused by the pre-trib school get in your way of understanding it as part of the timing for the AOD event.

Again.....did you go back to the begining of the chapter to read what it was Daniel was praying for and the answer given to him by Gabriel? At what point did Gabriel mention the AOD?

Dan.9
[2] In the first year of his reign I Daniel understood by books the number of the years, whereof the word of the LORD came to Jeremiah the prophet, that he would accomplish seventy years in the desolations of Jerusalem.

Daniel knew from reading the book of Jeremiah that the 70yrs was coming to an end.

[3] And I set my face unto the Lord God, to seek by prayer and supplication, with fasting, and sackcloth, and ashes:
[4] And I prayed unto the LORD my God, and made my confession, and said, O Lord, the great and dreadful God, keeping the covenant and mercy to them that love him, and to them that keep his commandments;

And now we find what Daniel is doing....he is praying to God. Now let's read what his prayer is about...

[14] Therefore hath the LORD watched upon the evil, and brought it upon us: for the LORD our God is righteous in all his works which he doeth: for we obeyed not his voice.
[15] And now, O Lord our God, that hast brought thy people forth out of the land of Egypt with a mighty hand, and hast gotten thee renown, as at this day; we have sinned, we have done wickedly.

So Daniel is praying about his people Israel....

[16] O Lord, according to all thy righteousness, I beseech thee, let thine anger and thy fury be turned away from thy city Jerusalem, thy holy mountain: because for our sins, and for the iniquities of our fathers, Jerusalem and thy people are become a reproach to all that are about us.
[17] Now therefore, O our God, hear the prayer of thy servant, and his supplications, and cause thy face to shine upon thy sanctuary that is desolate, for the Lord's sake.
[18] O my God, incline thine ear, and hear; open thine eyes, and behold our desolations, and the city which is called by thy name: for we do not present our supplications before thee for our righteousnesses, but for thy great mercies.

Daniel is praying about the city of Jerusalem....

[19] O Lord, hear; O Lord, forgive; O Lord, hearken and do; defer not, for thine own sake, O my God: for thy city and thy people are called by thy name.

Again Daniel is praying about his people Israel and the city of Jerusalem. Now let's read what happens next...

[20] And whiles I was speaking, and praying, and confessing my sin and the sin of my people Israel, and presenting my supplication before the LORD my God for the holy mountain of my God;
[21] Yea, whiles I was speaking in prayer, even the man Gabriel, whom I had seen in the vision at the beginning, being caused to fly swiftly, touched me about the time of the evening oblation.
[22] And he informed me, and talked with me, and said, O Daniel, I am now come forth to give thee skill and understanding.

The angel Gabriel comes to visit...to give Daniel understanding. About what? About what Daniel was praying about; his people Israel and the holy city Jerusalem. Now let's confirm...

[24] Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city,....

So this is just what Daniel was praying about, his people and Jerusalem. Now at what point did Daniel ask about the AOD and at what point did Gabriel say anything about the AoD? None yet...but let's continue....

[24]....to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.

So, Gabriel tells Daniel the following; there are 70 weeks to:

1. Finish the transgression.
2. To make reconciliation for iniquity (sins).
3. To bring in everlasting righteousness.
4. To seal up the vision and prophecy.
5. To anoint the most Holy.

Now at what point was the AoD mentioned? Can the AoD finish transgressions, make reconciliation for iniquity, bring in everlasting righteousness, seal up the vision AND anoint the most Holy? NO! So how many times did Gabriel mention the AoD? Not once...again. But what Gabriel did mention was the holy city Jerusalem, and the most Holy, who is Jesus Christ.

Let’s read about some of what is to happen and who it will happen to….

Let’s read what was to happen to Christ and what He did…

Isa.61
[1] The Spirit of the Lord GOD is upon me; because the LORD hath anointed me to preach good tidings unto the meek; he hath sent me to bind up the brokenhearted, to proclaim liberty to the captives, and the opening of the prison to them that are bound;

Now let’s find when Jesus was anointed.

Luke 4
[14] And Jesus returned in the power of the Spirit into Galilee: and there went out a fame of him through all the region round about.
[15] And he taught in their synagogues, being glorified of all.
[17] And there was delivered unto him the book of the prophet Esaias. And when he had opened the book, he found the place where it was written,

[18] The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he hath anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor; he hath sent me to heal the brokenhearted, to preach deliverance to the captives, and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty them that are bruised,
[19] To preach the acceptable year of the Lord.
[20] And he closed the book, and he gave it again to the minister, and sat down. And the eyes of all them that were in the synagogue were fastened on him.
[21] And he began to say unto them, This day is this scripture fulfilled in your ears.


Gabriel told us that the most Holy would be anointed and above we find when Christ became our Messiah. Gabriel also told us it would be 69 weeks, or 483yrs, from the commandment to restore Jerusalem until the Messiah was anointed….


[25] Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times.


Let’s read who it was that reconciled us….

2 Cor.5
[18] And all things are of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ, and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation;


Col.1
[20] And, having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile all things unto himself; by him, I say, whether they be things in earth, or things in heaven.
[21] And you, that were sometime alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now hath he reconciled


So it was Christ that reconciled us. And did Christ do it for Himself?


Isa.53
[4] Surely he hath borne our griefs, and carried our sorrows: yet we did esteem him stricken, smitten of God, and afflicted.
[5] But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed.


No He did not..He died for OUR sins. Again……Gabriel told us that the Messiah would, “…be cut off, but not for himself:…”


Let’s read who will bring in ever lasting righteousness..


Rom.5
[17] For if by one man's offence death reigned by one; much more they which receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ.)
[21] That as sin hath reigned unto death, even so might grace reign through righteousness unto eternal life by Jesus Christ our Lord.


2 Cor.9
[9] (As it is written, He hath dispersed abroad; he hath given to the poor: his righteousness remaineth for ever.


Again…just as Gabriel said, Christ would bring in everlasting righteousness.

Thus far Gabriel has ONLY spoken about Jesus Christ our Messiah. Let’s continue with Dan.9



[26] And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.


Now we know who the Messiah is; Jesus Christ. We know He was not cut off for anything He did, but it was for OUR sins that He died. We also know that it was in the middle of His 3yr ministry, “…And after threescore and two weeks…” did this happen. Let’s now read what happened to the holy city Jerusalem some time after Christ died….


From Wikipedia:

“Prior to becoming emperor, Titus gained renown as a military commander, serving under his father in Judaea during the First Jewish-Roman War. The campaign came to a brief halt with the death of emperor Nero in 68, launching Vespasian's bid for the imperial power during the Year of the Four Emperors. When Vespasian was declared emperor on 1 July 69, Titus was left in charge of ending the Jewish rebellion. In 70, he successfully laid siege to and destroyed the city and Temple of Jerusalem.”


So Gabriel is telling us what happened to the holy city, just as he said he would do, “…I am now come forth to give thee skill and understanding.”. The people of the prince, Titus, came and destroyed the city and the sanctuary.


Now ALL of what Gabriel has told us thus far has been about the holy city and the most Holy.

The ONLY thing Daniel was praying about was the holy city and his people, Jesus being one of them.

Now let’s read what happened when Jesus died in the middle of the week, “…after threescore and two weeks…”.


Matt.27
[51] And, behold, the veil of the temple was rent in twain from the top to the bottom; and the earth did quake, and the rocks rent;

Mark.15
[38] And the veil of the temple was rent in twain from the top to the bottom.


Luke 23
[45] And the sun was darkened, and the veil of the temple was rent in the midst.


Now what happen after the veil was ripped into two pieces? That put an end to animal sacrifices. No veil meant no more sacrifices. No Priesthood.


So the Messiah that Gabriel speaks of did all of the following…..

Made reconciliation for iniquity (sins).

Brought in everlasting righteousness.

AND ended sacrifices and oblations.



Now let’s read the last thing Gabriel told Daniel concerning his dream….


[27] And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

Now let’s read who first made a covenant….


Gen.15
[18] In the same day the LORD made a covenant with Abram, saying, Unto thy seed have I given this land, from the river of Egypt unto the great river, the river Euphrates:


Exod.6
[3] And I appeared unto Abraham, unto Isaac, and unto Jacob, by the name of God Almighty, but by my name JEHOVAH was I not known to them.
[4] And I have also established my covenant with them, to give them the land of Canaan, the land of their pilgrimage, wherein they were strangers.

Now let’s read who CONFIRMED that covenant…


Rom.15
[8] Now I say that Jesus Christ was a minister of the circumcision for the truth of God, to confirm the promises made unto the fathers:


Gal.3
[17] And this I say, that the covenant, that was confirmed before of God in Christ, the law, which was four hundred and thirty years after, cannot disannul, that it should make the promise of none effect.
[18] For if the inheritance be of the law, it is no more of promise: but God gave it to Abraham by promise.


Just so we are on the same page….let’s look up the word “confirmed” that was used in the word of God and not the word “make” as some try to use;


Confirm;

1. (may take a clause as object) to prove to be true or valid; corroborate; verify

2. (may take a clause as object) to assert for a second or further time, so as to make more definite he confirmed that he would appear in court


So again Gabriel speaks the truth. It was the Lord that FIRST made a covenant with the fathers. It was the Lord that was cut off after three score and two weeks, but not for Himself. It was the Lord that CONFIRMED the covenant that was made with the fathers. AND it was the Lord that cause the sacrifices and oblations to cease in the midst of the week.

That’s right…in the MIDDLE of the 69[sup]th[/sup] week, for it was, “… after threescore and two weeks…” did our Messiah die, not AT threescore and two weeks. So after threescore and two weeks, in the midst of that week, did Christ, "...cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease.".

Now at what point did Gabriel EVER mention the AoD? Not ONCE! Let’s continue..


[27] “…and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.


What did God say would happen to Jerusalem if Israel did not keep Him commandments? Let’s read…

Lev.26
[33] And I will scatter you among the heathen, and will draw out a sword after you: and your land shall be desolate, and your cities waste.
[34] Then shall the land enjoy her sabbaths, as long as it lieth desolate, and ye be in your enemies' land; even then shall the land rest, and enjoy her sabbaths.
[35] As long as it lieth desolate it shall rest; because it did not rest in your sabbaths, when ye dwelt upon it.

So it was the Lord that made the land desolate because of abominations. Let’s read more…


2 Chr.36
[21] To fulfil the word of the LORD by the mouth of Jeremiah, until the land had enjoyed her sabbaths: for as long as she lay desolate she kept sabbath, to fulfil threescore and ten years.

Wait a minute here! Isn’t this what Daniel was reading about from the book of Jeremiah at the beginning of the 9[sup]th[/sup] chapter? Wasn’t he reading and wondering what would become of his people and the holy city because the 70yrs was almost up?


So even this LAST verses is about the holy city Jerusalem.


So Daniel prayed about his people and his city and that is the answer that was given him by Gabriel. And nothing else.



But you would want the readers to believe this vision is about the Abomination of Desolation?


And you want ME to use common sense. How about just using the word of God.

Dan.9:27 is the ONLY scripture people can use to TRY to get a 7 year tribulation period and it is STILL not there.

That's because Gabriel came to answer Daniel's questions, which was about the holy city and his people.

And that is what Gabriel gave Daniel understanding about, from the 1st verse ALL the way to the 27th, Gabriel spoke ONLY about the city, the people and the most Holy, the Messiah; Jesus Christ!

And THAT is why I did not include Dan.9:27 in this lesson.



.





.

 

[aspen]

It can happen at any moment.

Jesus spoke generally when He talked about the Second coming. 'Wars and rumors of wars' - that is like saying 'the sun will rise in the East'. Jesus didn't know when He would return, but He taught His return would be immediate.

 

[Eccl.12:13]

It can happen at any moment.

Jesus spoke generally when He talked about the Second coming. 'Wars and rumors of wars' - that is like saying 'the sun will rise in the East'. Jesus didn't know when He would return, but He taught His return would be immediate.

This is true...any moment AFTER;

A temple has been built AND after,

The man of sin has been revealed AND after,

The man of sin is placed in the temple AND after,

The tribulation period AND after,

Sacrifices have been stopped!

Yep.....any moment AFTER all of the above we can look for Jesus return.

Jesus could NOT return before the making of the atom bomb because that is the way man is able to kill ALL flesh here on earth.

"And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened."

Now that man has the means to kill ALL flesh, we can truly expect His return after the signs given above, ALL of them, have happened.

.


.




.

 

[aspen]

This is true...any moment AFTER;

A temple has been built AND after,

The man of sin has been revealed AND after,

The man of sin is placed in the temple AND after,

The tribulation period AND after,

Sacrifices have been stopped!

Yep.....any moment AFTER all of the above we can look for Jesus return.

Jesus could NOT return before the making of the atom bomb because that is the way man is able to kill ALL flesh here on earth.

"And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened."

Now that man has the means to kill ALL flesh, we can truly expect His return after the signs given above, ALL of them, have happened.

Yet you have to explain away verses that talk about Christ's return within the lifespan of the generation He was speaking to.

The fact is, the Jewish Temple was already raised - in three days, remember?

Cesar 666 (Nero) already made himself known when he destroyed the Jewish Temple in 70 AD. Like all Cesars before him, Nero had already declared himself to be divine.

And, when he destroyed it, all sacrifices stopped.

Now we wait.

 

[veteran]

Why should I or anybody know by how short the Lord will shorten those days? One thing we do know is that the tribulation period WILL last for at least 3.5yrs.

Our Lord Jesus said differently, that He shortened the tribulation time (Matt.24). You simply don't know about it yet.

Again.....did you go back to the begining of the chapter to read what it was Daniel was praying for and the answer given to him by Gabriel? At what point did Gabriel mention the AOD?

Dan.9
[2] In the first year of his reign I Daniel understood by books the number of the years, whereof the word of the LORD came to Jeremiah the prophet, that he would accomplish seventy years in the desolations of Jerusalem.

The 70 years of Judah's Babylon captivity is not the same period of the 70 "weeks" prophecy. Anyone who reads God's Word should know that, since the 70 weeks prophecy includes the time of Christ's first coming, which was quite a long time after the 70 years Babylon captivity of Judah had ended.

I'm not going to go around in circles with you on the Dan.9 Scripture. It's the Dan.9:27 verse you claim has no bearing on the end of the sacrifice and setting up of abominations in Jerusalem. You well know that verse has much bearing on the AOD event...

Dan 9:27
27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.
(KJV)

That "consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate" (or actually 'desolator'), is about the time of that man of sin at the brightness of Christ's second coming (2 Thess.2). It's that false one that will make that peace pact in Jerusalem for a period of "one week" (7 years), and in the middle of it (after 3.5 years have expired), will place the abomination that makes Jerusalem and the temple desolate, a desolation of false worship to an idol abomination. That's what the Dan.9:27 verse is about.

 

[Eccl.12:13]

The 70 years of Judah's Babylon captivity is not the same period of the 70 "weeks" prophecy. Anyone who reads God's Word should know that, since the 70 weeks prophecy includes the time of Christ's first coming, which was quite a long time after the 70 years Babylon captivity of Judah had ended.

That is why Daniel had questions. He was reading the book of Jeremiah and realized that the 70 years was almost over. God's word never said the 70 weeks of Daniel and the 70 year of captivity had anything to do with eachother, nor did I. God's word just said that's what Daniel was reading at the time and that he had questions about his people Israel and the holy city Jerusalem.

I'm not going to go around in circles with you on the Dan.9 Scripture. It's the Dan.9:27 verse you claim has no bearing on the end of the sacrifice and setting up of abominations in Jerusalem. You well know that verse has much bearing on the AOD event...

Dan 9:27
27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.
(KJV)

That "consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate" (or actually 'desolator'), is about the time of that man of sin at the brightness of Christ's second coming (2 Thess.2). It's that false one that will make that peace pact in Jerusalem for a period of "one week" (7 years), and in the middle of it (after 3.5 years have expired), will place the abomination that makes Jerusalem and the temple desolate, a desolation of false worship to an idol abomination. That's what the Dan.9:27 verse is about.

So you are trying to tell the readers that AFTER God's word explains AND proves that the ONLY one being spoken about by Gabriel to Daniel is the Messiah, Jesus Christ, you still want us to believe that the LAST part of the LAST sentence is talking about the AoD?

Please tell us how you get this;

It's that false one that will make that peace pact in Jerusalem for a period of "one week" (7 years), and in the middle of it (after 3.5 years have expired), will place the abomination that makes Jerusalem and the temple desolate, a desolation of false worship to an idol abomination.

Out of ALL of this,

Dan 9:27
27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.



Which God's word has this to say about it...

The "he" spoken of is Jesus. And the "it" is the holy city Jerusalem. Let's read it again...



Jesus is the one that made the covenant.
(In the same day the LORD made a covenant with Abram, saying, Unto thy seed have I given this land, from the river of Egypt unto the great river, the river Euphrates Gen.15:18


Jesus is the one that confirmed the covenant.
(Now I say that Jesus Christ was a minister of the circumcision for the truth of God, to confirm the promises made unto the fathers Rom.15:8


Jesus is the one that caused the sacrifices and oblations to cease in the midst of the week, the middle of His ministry, 3.5yrs.
(And, behold, the veil of the temple was rent in twain from the top to the bottom; and the earth did quake, and the rocks rent Matt.27:51


Jesus is the one that caused Jerusalem to become desolate because of the overspreading of abominations, even until the end (consummation).

God's word says the following;

(...and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate...)

Not "desolator" as YOU claim!

The "He" is Jesus and the "it" is the holy city Jerusalem, which God tells us below;

(And I will scatter you among the heathen, and will draw out a sword after you: and your land shall be desolate, and your cities waste.) Lev.26:33

And WHY did God do this to His holy city? He tells us.....

[43] The land also shall be left of them, and shall enjoy her sabbaths, while she lieth desolate without them: and they shall accept of the punishment of their iniquity: because, even because they despised my judgments, and because their soul abhorred my statutes.

Because of the, "...overspreading of abominations...", by the nation of Israel. That's why God made the land desolate...because of the sins of the nation of Israel. They did NOT keep their end of the covenant.


Jesus is the one that determined what would be the final outcome for Jerusalem (and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.)
(But ye are come unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels,) Heb.12:22

(And he carried me away in the spirit to a great and high mountain, and shewed me that great city, the holy Jerusalem, descending out of heaven from God,
Having the glory of God: and her light was like unto a stone most precious, even like a jasper stone, clear as crystal;
And I saw no temple therein: for the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are the temple of it.
And the city had no need of the sun, neither of the moon, to shine in it: for the glory of God did lighten it, and the Lamb is the light thereof.) Rev.21:10&11, 22&23.


Not to mention ALL of the other events spoken of by Gabriel that makes it IMPOSSIBLE for it to be the AoD;
To make reconciliation for iniquity (sins).
To bring in everlasting righteousness.
To anoint the most Holy.


Listen...I know what man says, and what you have read and what you have been taught, but does ANY of it line up with the word of God? From the First to the Last verse Gabriel speaks ONLY about the city Jerusalem and the most Holy.


If you want to believe what has been taught to you by man and ignore the word of God then sobeit.

If that is the case you and all of the rest that believe the same will find themselves right in the middle of the "times of Jacobs troubles" with only two choices; Take the mark, or die for Christ.


.

 

[rockytopva]

But... I believe there is a difference between the rapture and the second coming... Taking in my timeline (Pre Trib Rapture) I believe that the second coming comes after the seven trumpets and seven seals and the rapture comes before. I also believe that we as saints will return with our Lord to live again on this earth for 1,000 years.

 

[tomwebster]

But... I believe there is a difference between the rapture and the second coming... Taking in my timeline (Pre Trib Rapture) I believe that the second coming comes after the seven trumpets and seven seals and the rapture comes before. I also believe that we as saints will return with our Lord to live again on this earth for 1,000 years.

So you want to run before the battle, not me, I have a job to do.

 

[rockytopva]

So you want to run before the battle, not me, I have a job to do.

You won't be able to buy or sell without the mark of the beast... So what are you going to do for survival? I hope you don't live in the northeast!

 

[aspen]

Well the important thing is that Tom isn't a coward like you rocky....lol

Apologetics at its finest....

 

[tomwebster]

You won't be able to buy or sell without the mark of the beast... So what are you going to do for survival? I hope you don't live in the northeast!

You don't need to worry about me, God takes care of His own.

 

[Eccl.12:13]

You don't need to worry about me, God takes care of His own.

God takes care of those that obey;

God took care of Noah because he built an ark.
God took care of Lot and Abraham because they fled.
God took care of the nation of Israel because they put blood on their door post.
God took care of Mary, Joseph and Jesus because they fled.

In each and every case where God gave a command and people listened, they were saved.

God tells us the following....

Matt.24
[15] When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand
[16] Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:

For those that are not in Judaea, you too will be safe ONLY if you flee to those same mountains.

Let's read what happens to those that do NOT obey the words of God. And take note what these that do not obey are called...

Dan.7
[21] I beheld, and the same horn made war with the saints, and prevailed against them;

Rev.13
[4] And they worshipped the dragon which gave power unto the beast: and they worshipped the beast, saying, Who is like unto the beast? who is able to make war with him?
[5] And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months.
[6] And he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme his name, and his tabernacle, and them that dwell in heaven.
[7] And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.

It says it was the "saints" that were prevailed against and was overcome. And how long did this happen? Let's read....

Dan.7
[22] Until the Ancient of days came, and judgment was given to the saints of the most High; and the time came that the saints possessed the kingdom.

Until the second coming of Christ.

Do not obey the words of God if you like.....you and your family will be the ones to suffer.



.

Taking in my timeline (Pre Trib Rapture) I believe that the second coming comes after the seven trumpets and seven seals and the rapture comes before.

What scriptures is it that you believe tells you Jesus will return BEFORE the tribulation period when everything in God's word says He will return AFTER. Even Jesus Himself in the 24th chapter of Matt.

.

 

[Duckybill]

God took care of the nation of Israel because they put blood on their door post.

Revelation 12:10-11 (NKJV)
[sup]10 [/sup]Then I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, "Now salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of His Christ have come, for the accuser of our brethren, who accused them before our God day and night, has been cast down. [sup]11 [/sup]And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb and by the word of their testimony, and they did not love their lives to the death.

 

[rockytopva]

What scriptures is it that you believe tells you Jesus will return BEFORE the tribulation period when everything in God's word says He will return AFTER. Even Jesus Himself in the 24th chapter of Matt.

.

Here is my case... My Pre-Trib Argument Which is also called the traditional prophetic timeline as we Pre-Tribbers believe the tribulation un-survivable for those who do not take the mark of the beast...

In which... (Prophecy Statement) I was thinking that the majority of the churches were in agreement with...

"The pre-millennial and pre-tribulation views are the most widely held in Bible prophecy. These views are the most literal approach to prophecy, and are sometimes called the futurist view, which claims there will be a literal future 7-year tribulation period followed by a 1000-year reign of Jesus Christ on earth. As well, the rapture of the Church will precede the tribulation period, and is a separate event from the Second Coming of Jesus Christ at the end of the tribulation period. Additionally, the Church and Israel have distinct and unique roles in the end-times, thus the events described in the book of Revelation are still to come. These positions are often attacked by liberal denominations and the cults, while a majority of conservative denominations accept these views of the end-times."