Catholics

[Truth]

Fair enough.

Actually - the Catholic Church is not a "denomination" - but the original Tree from which Protestantism splintered.
Lutherans and Calvinists and Wesleyans and Millerites are precisely the types of factions what Paul was warning against (1 Cor. 1:10-17).

In your opinion or as the Church might respond, Is the Catholic Church considered to be the Mother of All Churches, due to the earliest form of a Christian Assembly or Church? so's you know I do agree that the Protestant Church's are out or sink with each other, as one that I have studied under say's they all have different hoops to jump through. A yes or no will be sufficient. I only ask because I think I read it somewhere.

 

[BreadOfLife]

In your opinion or as the Church might respond, Is the Catholic Church considered to be the Mother of All Churches, due to the earliest form of a Christian Assembly or Church? so's you know I do agree that the Protestant Church's are out or sink with each other, as one that I have studied under say's they all have different hoops to jump through. A yes or no will be sufficient. I only ask because I think I read it somewhere.

Actually no - it is not the mother of all Churches.

The Protestant denominations are not "churches" in the fullest sense - but ecclesial communities that, although related to the Church, are self-separated by ecclesial divorce.

There is only ONE Church - and we all need to be part of it.

 

[BreadOfLife]

This is a time, times, and half a time, of which it is written, which things were before the foundation of the world.

And again - every time you dodge a question, your feeble attempts at being philosophical are garbled and nonsensical.

I'll ask you again:
So, for 15 centuries - Christ's Church was lost?
Where was His Church for the 15 centuries PRIOR to the Protestant Revolt??

 

[BreadOfLife]

I would agree with mine adversary quickly while I was in the way with him. Maybe even forgive him.
Mat 6:14　 For if ye forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you:　
Mat 6:15　 But if ye forgive not men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses.　

Jesus worked that out, too. Although admittedly this is harder in practice than I make it seem here.

And that is nothing more than a dodge.
The person in question is not seeking forgiveness.

Jesus gave us a prescription for settling disputes among brothers in Matt. 18:15-18.
So I ask you again: if YOU are a Baptist and the other guy is a Lutheran - WHO do you take the problem to??

Was Jesus making a joke or just wasting time when He told them this prescription?
OR, was it the way He wanted them to settle disputes?

 

[ScottA]

And again - every time you dodge a question, your feeble attempts at being philosophical are garbled and nonsensical.

I'll ask you again:
So, for 15 centuries - Christ's Church was lost?
Where was His Church for the 15 centuries PRIOR to the Protestant Revolt??

As per usual, I answered and you did not see:

The church is in Christ.

 

[BreadOfLife]

As per usual, I answered and you did not see:

No - you posted some gibberish and expected me to figure it out, as usual.
It's a very straightforward question and requires a straightforward answer.

I'll ask it simpler way:
a. You believe the Catholic Church to be an abomination.
b. Jesus told Peter that the Gates of Hell would not prevail against His Church (Matt. 18:18).
c. Protestantism didn't come into being until the 16th century and has been splintering ever since.

Now, the question:
Can you document the True Church from the 1st century to the 16th century?

That should be easy for an anti-Catholic like yourself to answer . . .

 

[Pisteuo]

And that is nothing more than a dodge.
The person in question is not seeking forgiveness.

Jesus gave us a prescription for settling disputes among brothers in Matt. 18:15-18.
So I ask you again: if YOU are a Baptist and the other guy is a Lutheran - WHO do you take the problem to??

Was Jesus making a joke or just wasting time when He told them this prescription?
OR, was it the way He wanted them to settle disputes?

Yes a dodge. I'd forgive the man whether he sought forgiveness or not. If he sinned against me it's my call not his. If he wants to take it to his Lutheran leader then that is up to him. I gave it to Jesus. Do you think I'd be wrong then?

 

[ScottA]

No - you posted some gibberish and expected me to figure it out, as usual.
It's a very straightforward question and requires a straightforward answer.

I'll ask it simpler way:
a. You believe the Catholic Church to be an abomination.
b. Jesus told Peter that the Gates of Hell would not prevail against His Church (Matt. 18:18).
c. Protestantism didn't come into being until the 16th century and has been splintering ever since.

Now, the question:
Can you document the True Church from the 1st century to the 16th century?

That should be easy for an anti-Catholic like yourself to answer . . .

If I have told you earthly things and you do not believe, how will you believe if I tell you heavenly things?

It is written: "lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age.”

 

[mjrhealth]

I couldn't agree with you more.
So, why DO you??

Me lie about teh catholic church, as I said we dont have to its history is written through out teh years of its terrible existence, for all the world to see and even the papers and tabloids today tell of its deceiptfull nature, As I said dont have to lie because its is a lie.

You see

Eph_2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

but according to you it is not and we have to pay for it. Thank you for your educating us in hypocrisy. Its amazing what God has done without mens churches, now if only He could get men on His side, te hworld would be shaken.

 

[BreadOfLife]

Yes a dodge. I'd forgive the man whether he sought forgiveness or not. If he sinned against me it's my call not his. If he wants to take it to his Lutheran leader then that is up to him. I gave it to Jesus. Do you think I'd be wrong then?

No - I think it's a dodge.

Why would Jesus give a prescription for settling matters if it wasn't necessary.
The man in question may be sleeping with your wife. So, you're saying that you would just allow him to continue?

Your answer is a cop out. There are MANY sways a person could sin against you that need resolution, not simply "forgiveness."

So I ask you yet again:
If YOU are a Baptist and the other guy is a Lutheran - WHO do you take the problem to??

 

[BreadOfLife]

Me lie about teh catholic church, as I said we dont have to its history is written through out teh years of its terrible existence, for all the world to see and even the papers and tabloids today tell of its deceiptfull nature, As I said dont have to lie because its is a lie.

You see
Eph_2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

but according to you it is not and we have to pay for it. Thank you for your educating us in hypocrisy. Its amazing what God has done without mens churches, now if only He could get men on His side, te hworld would be shaken.

And this goes back to my earlier point:
Why do you quote a Catholic Canon of Scripture if the Catholic Church is an "evil" entity?

Why do you trust the Catholic Church to have compiled and declared the Canon of God's Word??
Sounds like a giant hypocrisy to me . . .

 

[BreadOfLife]

If I have told you earthly things and you do not believe, how will you believe if I tell you heavenly things?
It is written: "lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age.”

In other words, you're ignorant of Church history.
That's what I thought . . .

 

[Pisteuo]

No - I think it's a dodge.

Why would Jesus give a prescription for settling matters if it wasn't necessary.
The man in question may be sleeping with your wife. So, you're saying that you would just allow him to continue?

Your answer is a cop out. There are MANY sways a person could sin against you that need resolution, not simply "forgiveness."

So I ask you yet again:
If YOU are a Baptist and the other guy is a Lutheran - WHO do you take the problem to??

Hardly any answer given by your priest would satisfy either side anyway. So I'm sorry I cannot adequately answer that I would need a man to mediate a resolution. And allow him to continue? I thought we were talking of believers. If he plans on continuing he's not a believer, imo. Therefore why would he care about a resolution from the church? Can the priest stop him?

 

[ScottA]

In other words, you're ignorant of Church history.
That's what I thought . . .

I have been more than kind in speaking the truth to you, but you insist upon making the church your god. This you do, but I do not.

 

[BreadOfLife]

I have been more than kind in speaking the truth to you, but you insist upon making the church your god. This you do, but I do not.

And, in your ignorance, you illustrate that you don't understand what Christ's Church actually it is.
It's not the Church OR Christ. The Church IS Christ on earth.

Jesus equates His very self with His Church (Acts 9:4-5). That's why He said that if you reject it - you reject HIM (Luke 10:16).
Hope that works for you - but I'm not holding my breath . . .

 

[BreadOfLife]

Hardly any answer given by your priest would satisfy either side anyway. So I'm sorry I cannot adequately answer that I would need a man to mediate a resolution. And allow him to continue? I thought we were talking of believers. If he plans on continuing he's not a believer, imo. Therefore why would he care about a resolution from the church? Can the priest stop him?

Apparently you haven't read Matt. 18:15-18.

Jesus said that if a a "BROTHER" (adelphos) sins against you and refuses to listen.
This is proof that true believers can fall away. Now, in this passage, Jesus gives is a prescription to settle the matter - but according to YOU - He was wasting His time because you are "above" His prescription.

This is a cop out and a non-answer because the alternative is that you MUST agree that we cannot have tens of thousands of denominations . . .

 

[ScottA]

And, in your ignorance, you illustrate that you don't understand what Christ's Church actually it is.
It's not the Church OR Christ. The Church IS Christ on earth.

Jesus equates His very self with His Church (Acts 9:4-5). That's why He said that if you reject it - you reject HIM (Luke 10:16).
Hope that works for you - but I'm not holding my breath . . .

Why then have you rejected Him to follow the flesh?

 

[BreadOfLife]

Why then have you rejected Him to follow the flesh?

I follow Christ - who is BOTH glorified flesh and Spirit.
In your ignorance, you try in vain to divide Him - and He cannot be divided.

 

[ScottA]

I follow Christ - who is BOTH glorified flesh and Spirit.
In your ignorance, you try in vain to divide Him - and He cannot be divided.

Again, you know not of what you speak, you who mount up on wings:

"For wherever the carcass is, there the eagles will be gathered together."

"Flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God."

For which it is also written of you:

The Eagles and the Vine
17 And the word of the Lord came to me, saying, 2 “Son of man, pose a riddle, and speak a parable to the house of Israel, 3 and say, ‘Thus says the Lord God:

“A great eagle with large wings and long pinions,
Full of feathers of various colors,
Came to Lebanon
And took from the cedar the highest branch.
4 He cropped off its topmost young twig
And carried it to a land of trade;
He set it in a city of merchants.
5 Then he took some of the seed of the land
And planted it in a fertile field;
He placed it by abundant waters
And set it like a willow tree.
6 And it grew and became a spreading vine of low stature;
Its branches turned toward him,
But its roots were under it.
So it became a vine,
Brought forth branches,
And put forth shoots.

7 “But there was another great eagle with large wings and many feathers;
And behold, this vine bent its roots toward him,
And stretched its branches toward him,
From the garden terrace where it had been planted,
That he might water it.
8 It was planted in good soil by many waters,
To bring forth branches, bear fruit,
And become a majestic vine.”’

9 “Say, ‘Thus says the Lord God:

“Will it thrive?
Will he not pull up its roots,
Cut off its fruit,
And leave it to wither?
All of its spring leaves will wither,
And no great power or many people
Will be needed to pluck it up by its roots.
10 Behold, it is planted,
Will it thrive?
Will it not utterly wither when the east wind touches it?
It will wither in the garden terrace where it grew.”’”

11 Moreover the word of the Lord came to me, saying, 12 “Say now to the rebellious house: ‘Do you not know what these things mean?’ Tell them,‘Indeed the king of Babylon went to Jerusalem and took its king and princes, and led them with him to Babylon. 13 And he took the king’s offspring, made a covenant with him, and put him under oath. He also took away the mighty of the land, 14 that the kingdom might be brought low and not lift itself up, but that by keeping his covenant it might stand. 15 But he rebelled against him by sending his ambassadors to Egypt, that they might give him horses and many people. Will he prosper? Will he who does such things escape? Can he break a covenant and still be delivered?

16 ‘As I live,’ says the Lord God, ‘surely in the place where the king dwells who made him king, whose oath he despised and whose covenant he broke—with him in the midst of Babylon he shall die. 17 Nor will Pharaoh with his mighty army and great company do anything in the war, when they heap up a siege mound and build a wall to cut off many persons. 18 Since he despised the oath by breaking the covenant, and in fact gave his hand and still did all these things, he shall not escape.’”

19 Therefore thus says the Lord God: “As I live, surely My oath which he despised, and My covenant which he broke, I will recompense on his own head. 20 I will spread My net over him, and he shall be taken in My snare. I will bring him to Babylon and try him there for the treason which he committed against Me. 21 All his fugitives with all his troops shall fall by the sword, and those who remain shall be scattered to every wind; and you shall know that I, the Lord, have spoken.”

Israel Exalted at Last
22 Thus says the Lord God: “I will take also one of the highest branches of the high cedar and set it out. I will crop off from the topmost of its young twigs a tender one, and will plant it on a high and prominent mountain. 23 On the mountain height of Israel I will plant it; and it will bring forth boughs, and bear fruit, and be a majestic cedar. Under it will dwell birds of every sort; in the shadow of its branches they will dwell. 24 And all the trees of the field shall know that I, the Lord, have brought down the high tree and exalted the low tree, dried up the green tree and made the dry tree flourish; I, the Lord, have spoken and have done it.”

 

[BreadOfLife]

Again, you know not of what you speak, you who mount up on wings:
"For wherever the carcass is, there the eagles will be gathered together."
"Flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God."

For which it is also written of you:
The Eagles and the Vine
17 And the word of the Lord came to me, saying, 2 “Son of man, pose a riddle, and speak a parable to the house of Israel, 3 and say, ‘Thus says the Lord God:

“A great eagle with large wings and long pinions,
Full of feathers of various colors,
Came to Lebanon
And took from the cedar the highest branch.
4 He cropped off its topmost young twig
And carried it to a land of trade;
He set it in a city of merchants.
5 Then he took some of the seed of the land
And planted it in a fertile field;
He placed it by abundant waters
And set it like a willow tree.
6 And it grew and became a spreading vine of low stature;
Its branches turned toward him,
But its roots were under it.
So it became a vine,
Brought forth branches,
And put forth shoots.

7 “But there was another great eagle with large wings and many feathers;
And behold, this vine bent its roots toward him,
And stretched its branches toward him,
From the garden terrace where it had been planted,
That he might water it.
8 It was planted in good soil by many waters,
To bring forth branches, bear fruit,
And become a majestic vine.”’

9 “Say, ‘Thus says the Lord God:

“Will it thrive?
Will he not pull up its roots,
Cut off its fruit,
And leave it to wither?
All of its spring leaves will wither,
And no great power or many people
Will be needed to pluck it up by its roots.
10 Behold, it is planted,
Will it thrive?
Will it not utterly wither when the east wind touches it?
It will wither in the garden terrace where it grew.”’”

11 Moreover the word of the Lord came to me, saying, 12 “Say now to the rebellious house: ‘Do you not know what these things mean?’ Tell them,‘Indeed the king of Babylon went to Jerusalem and took its king and princes, and led them with him to Babylon. 13 And he took the king’s offspring, made a covenant with him, and put him under oath. He also took away the mighty of the land, 14 that the kingdom might be brought low and not lift itself up, but that by keeping his covenant it might stand. 15 But he rebelled against him by sending his ambassadors to Egypt, that they might give him horses and many people. Will he prosper? Will he who does such things escape? Can he break a covenant and still be delivered?

16 ‘As I live,’ says the Lord God, ‘surely in the place where the king dwells who made him king, whose oath he despised and whose covenant he broke—with him in the midst of Babylon he shall die. 17 Nor will Pharaoh with his mighty army and great company do anything in the war, when they heap up a siege mound and build a wall to cut off many persons. 18 Since he despised the oath by breaking the covenant, and in fact gave his hand and still did all these things, he shall not escape.’”

19 Therefore thus says the Lord God: “As I live, surely My oath which he despised, and My covenant which he broke, I will recompense on his own head. 20 I will spread My net over him, and he shall be taken in My snare. I will bring him to Babylon and try him there for the treason which he committed against Me. 21 All his fugitives with all his troops shall fall by the sword, and those who remain shall be scattered to every wind; and you shall know that I, the Lord, have spoken.”

Israel Exalted at Last
22 Thus says the Lord God: “I will take also one of the highest branches of the high cedar and set it out. I will crop off from the topmost of its young twigs a tender one, and will plant it on a high and prominent mountain. 23 On the mountain height of Israel I will plant it; and it will bring forth boughs, and bear fruit, and be a majestic cedar. Under it will dwell birds of every sort; in the shadow of its branches they will dwell. 24 And all the trees of the field shall know that I, the Lord, have brought down the high tree and exalted the low tree, dried up the green tree and made the dry tree flourish; I, the Lord, have spoken and have done it.”

And NONE of this has anything to do with your rejection of Christ's Church.
You use Scripture as a smokescreen so that people won't recognize your counterfeit beliefs.