Character

[Heart2Soul]

That's what my entire argument has been about since I first started posting here. I haven't deviated from that belief.

No demoNcrat or liberal would work either. Only Jesus reigning here on Earth is good enough. Coupled with my belief in the book of Revelation, it's all going to end, so why follow/support/defend antichrists (as Jesus said there would by many)? Of course I don't believe you don't have the right to, it's your opinion and your belief; likewise I have the same right to an opinion/belief.

I pray for Trump because His Word tells me to. I praise God and trust Him throughout all presidencies to accomplish what His Will is through them.

 

[4Jesus]

I pray for Trump because His Word tells me to. I praise God and trust Him throughout all presidencies to accomplish what His Will is through them.

I fully agree. Likewise, so do I, and also for many, many other people out in the world today who are not Christians (such as Muslims, Hindus, atheists/agnostics, even satanists who can be converted, etc).

 

[4Jesus]

@Heart2Soul

If you don't mind, what do you think of this question I asked Scott "God also raised up Hitler, and Stalin, and on and on and on. Does that mean you would follow/support/defend those men just because God raised them up, specifically to show us what not to follow (to only follow/support/defend Him)?"

I'm curious what your thoughts on that question is.

 

[Heart2Soul]

@Heart2Soul

If you don't mind, what do you think of this question I asked Scott "God also raised up Hitler, and Stalin, and on and on and on. Does that mean you would follow/support/defend those men just because God raised them up, specifically to show us what not to follow (to only follow/support/defend Him)?"

I'm curious what your thoughts on that question is.

I do not support the evil but again, I trust God's purpose in raising up such leaders.
He uses both good and evil to accomplish His Will.

 

[Willie T]

*4Jesus*,
You really could benefit from getting off this “oath” kick, and doing not only some research before you just accept things you hear, but also from exercising some common sense in posting about them.

Even the Boy Scouts and Girl Scouts have “oaths.” You even agree to an oath whenever you sign up for a Christian Forum. And, whether you want to admit it or not, when you got married, the vows you spoke were an oath.

The following 14 pages are religious oaths Christian people down through history, and even your friends and neighbors have possibly taken… and you might have, yourself.. This list I got from Wikipedia may not reflect recent changes (learn more).
Religious vows
C
Columbus' vow
D
Declaration of faith
F
Fourth vow
H
Heitstrenging
O
Oath against modernism

• Oath and covenant of the priesthood
• Oath of vengeance

P
Papal profession of faith (late 7th century)

• Penalty (Mormonism)
• Protestation of 1641

S
Sonargöltr
T
Tama (votive)

• Thou shalt not take the name of the Lord thy God in vain

 

[Pearl]

bowed to those who would do us harm.

Oh you mean like Trump did with Putin and Kim and the Taliban?

 

[4Jesus]

*4Jesus*,
You really could benefit from getting off this “oath” kick, and doing not only some research before you just accept things you hear, but also from exercising some common sense in posting about them.

Even the Boy Scouts and Girl Scouts have “oaths.” You even agree to an oath whenever you sign up for a Christian Forum. And, whether you want to admit it or not, when you got married, the vows you spoke were an oath.

The following 14 pages are religious oaths Christian people down through history, and even your friends and neighbors have possibly taken… and you might have, yourself.. This list I got from Wikipedia may not reflect recent changes (learn more).
Religious vows
C
Columbus' vow
D
Declaration of faith
F
Fourth vow
H
Heitstrenging
O
Oath against modernism

• Oath and covenant of the priesthood
• Oath of vengeance

P
Papal profession of faith (late 7th century)

• Penalty (Mormonism)
• Protestation of 1641

S
Sonargöltr
T
Tama (votive)

• Thou shalt not take the name of the Lord thy God in vain

It was 5-6 posts WillieT, that is not an "oath kick". Coming from a name-caller, insulter, and false accuser, I don't take what you tell me to do seriously. People shouldn't tell others what to do, and then expect it to not come across as condescending.

Still no answer from you for the third time regarding if you think Freemasonry is satanic/antichrist? You seem to do that a lot (not answer questions when it's convenient for you).

And I stated I have military members in my family that have taken oaths, so please try to read what I've written a little closer. Once again, that does not negate that they took an oath when Jesus said not to...

The "terms of service" of this forum I agreed to is an oath now? Oath defined: "A solemn, formal declaration or promise to fulfill a pledge, often calling on God, a god, or a sacred object as witness." When did I call on God to fulfill a promise to agree to the terms of service of this forum? I think you're not understanding what an oath is, as defined by the Bible (and modern dictionaries).

And how do you know if I am/have been married or not? How can you say "when you got married" when you have no idea if I am or have been married? Another extremely arrogant and ignorant statement by you.

You really throw some wild information out there WillieT, and a lot of times arrogant while being ignorant of that information.

 

[4Jesus]

I do not support the evil but again, I trust God's purpose in raising up such leaders.
He uses both good and evil to accomplish His Will.

Thanks for your viewpoint, I appreciate it. I'm of the same belief.

 

[Willie T]

Freemasonry is supposedly a "secret" organization. How is it that you seem to know so much about it? (Careful with your answer, because you will likely explain just exactly what Trump was joking about in that video that claimed he said he was a Mason... simply because he recognized some Masonic terms he has heard people mention over the years.)

You see, you only know what any of the rest of us know (including Trump), only what we have heard.

 

[Heart2Soul]

Oh you mean like Trump did with Putin and Kim and the Taliban?

I don't think putting heavy sanctions against these leaders can be called bowing to them. I know he seeks peaceful negotiations but as far as I know he has not entered into any agreement with any of them. He has had several meetings with them but there has not been a successful agreement as of yet.
I know Kim Jong has signed agreements to stop building weapons but he backs out each time.
He canceled meetings with the Taliban leaders after the death of a U.S. service member was killed by a suicide attacker.
I am not sure what information you have that you base your statement on but it is probably not accurate.

 

[4Jesus]

Freemasonry is supposedly a "secret" organization. How is it that you seem to know so much about it? (Careful with your answer, because you will likely explain just exactly what Trump was joking about in that video that claimed he said he was a Mason... simply because he recognized some Masonic terms he has heard people mention over the years.)

You see, you only know what any of the rest of us know (including Trump), only what we have heard.

You didn't answer the question I asked. Yet again.

As to the rest of your comment, yes, I'm not a Freemason of the upper tier (nor lower tier). That being said, I started to read Pike and Hall's writings (Freemasonic leaders) and decided that was enough for me to know. In addition, the following websites give a good run down on it (as posted earlier):
Please check out the following information:
"Albert Pike, Manly P. Hall, Albert Mackey, Authur Waite, 33rd degree Masons, the honorary degree bestowed from the executive bodies of Freemasonry.

Their writing are packed full of pagan, occultic, Luciferian doctrine, Occultist extreme!

These same authors and 33rd degree occultist have right to attend meetings and initiations in "Blue Lodges" of the lower 1-3 degrees, a Lodge that they passed through and are members of also." - Satanism and Freemasonry.

-https://www.jesus-is-savior.com/False%20Religions/Freemasonry/deception.htm
-https://www.bibleprobe.com/freemasonry.htm
-https://onepeterfive.com/bishop-schneider-freemasonry-instrument-satan-seeking-destroy-church/
-https://www.veteranstoday.com/2019/03/30/freemasonry-and-satanism-the-history-of-albert-pike/
-https://www.christianforums.com/threads/is-freemasonry-really-satanic.8044783/

So you're accusation that I only know what any of the rest know is false, since I once did begin to read the writings of those Freemason leaders. Another false accusation coupled with arrogance yet again from you. You do that a lot, don't you?

Furthermore, I never said that I know Trump is a Freemason, and I didn't watch those videos yet. You're mixing arguments from two people (SovereignGrace and Guiliano) into my argument, which I never made. Perhaps the information that SovereignGrace and Guiliano is correct regarding Trump being a Freemason, but I can't say that it is until I watch the videos they posted.

Have you ever thought of yourself as being arrogant and condescending WillieT? Do you think those are good traits in a person?

 

[4Jesus]

I don't think putting heavy sanctions against these leaders can be called bowing to them. I know he seeks peaceful negotiations but as far as I know he has not entered into any agreement with any of them. He has had several meetings with them but there has not been a successful agreement as of yet.
I know Kim Jong has signed agreements to stop building weapons but he backs out each time.
He canceled meetings with the Taliban leaders after the death of a U.S. service member was killed by a suicide attacker.
I am not sure what information you have that you base your statement on but it is probably not accurate.

The administration released a coin to commemorate Trump and Kim's (cancelled) meeting (with their faces on the money/coin), calling Kim Jong Supreme Leader The White House made a coin for Trump's meeting with Kim Jong Un, and lots of people noticed the number of chins on the North Korean leader. Not necessarily bowing to Kim, but definitely acknowledging his position.

 

[ScottA]

Again, I approve God's choice of leaders (not that God needs my approval or disproval, or yours Scott) to prove that man cannot rule man, and that only He can. Do you disagree that only God can, and should, rule man?

And again, I don't hate the man. I hope he asks Jesus to forgive him for his sins. How it that hate? Another false accusation by you...

Your question may as well be a trap. So I will answer you with a similar question: Is is wrong for God to raise up leaders if only He can rule men? By asking in the way that you have, you have caught yourself in your own trap.

As for hate, it is hate which is in your heart, and that which comes out of you is therefore hate. And that is no accusation, but my witness according to the words of Christ regarding the heart.

 

[Heart2Soul]

The administration released a coin to commemorate Trump and Kim's (cancelled) meeting (with their faces on the money/coin), calling Kim Jong Supreme Leader The White House made a coin for Trump's meeting with Kim Jong Un, and lots of people noticed the number of chins on the North Korean leader. Not necessarily bowing to Kim, but definitely acknowledging his position.

Oh mercy ...that is the kind of propaganda that keeps getting put out there by various social media outlets looking for anything they can twist and pervert in order to justify their hatred towards him. It gets so ridiculous at times that it is humorous.

 

[Pearl]

I don't think putting heavy sanctions against these leaders can be called bowing to them. I know he seeks peaceful negotiations but as far as I know he has not entered into any agreement with any of them. He has had several meetings with them but there has not been a successful agreement as of yet.
I know Kim Jong has signed agreements to stop building weapons but he backs out each time.
He canceled meetings with the Taliban leaders after the death of a U.S. service member was killed by a suicide attacker.
I am not sure what information you have that you base your statement on but it is probably not accurate.

And probably their is a lot of negative and inaccurate information about Obama too. But people are biased according to their political colour.

 

[Pearl]

Barack Obama is a Christian who has been accused of being a Muslim and an atheist, but here is the truth about his religious background and beliefs.

Barack Obama Has a More Religiously Diverse Background Than Most

 

[ScottA]

No, I was asking directly, if you disagree that only God can, and should, rule man? I have no doubt that you are a Christian and Jesus is your Lord and King. That's not what I asked though.

I do look at it from God's perspective. Maybe you could try looking at it from another perspective? That any political leader is not good enough to lead us, including Trump.

That question is against God who raises up leaders. Against God. Nonetheless, I have answered you already.

"and stop badmouthing His choice." Please stop telling me what to do, it is very arrogant. I don't do that to you. It shows a lack of respect on your part.

I was not telling you what to do. You call yourself a Christian. It was a warning.

My "badmouthing" is discussing facts about Trump, and those facts are backed up by statements and quotes that can be attributed to him, then forming an opinion based on those facts. That is not badmouthing; it can be critical, but that does not mean it is badmouthing.

Not so. If you dug up dirt on King David (not hard to do), it would be badmouthing one whom God raised up to be king. That is very much what you are doing.

As I said, there is an alternative that you could do instead...but that is not what you have done.

 

[4Jesus]

Oh mercy ...that is the kind of propaganda that keeps getting put out there by various social media outlets looking for anything they can twist and pervert in order to justify their hatred towards him. It gets so ridiculous at times that it is humorous.

It's not propoganda from his opponents though, it's propaganda from his administration. Definition of propaganda:

• The systematic propagation of a doctrine or cause or of information reflecting the views and interests of those advocating such a doctrine or cause.
• n.
  Material disseminated by the advocates or opponents of a doctrine or cause.
  
  In this case, it's propaganda from his administration, not "social media outlets looking for anything they can twist and pervert in order to justify their hatred towards him" nor the second definition above ("opponents of a doctrine or cause"), it's Trump who did this! Quoting that article I posted above "The Trump administration on Monday released its "trip coin" to commemorate the impending summit between President Donald Trump and North Korea's Kim Jong Un."
  
  And I agree that it is humorous that what you are attributing to Trump's opponents is actually Trump doing what you don't like.

 

[Heart2Soul]

And probably their is a lot of negative and inaccurate information about Obama too. But people are biased according to their political colour.

I am sure there was.

 

[ScottA]

God also raised up Hitler, and Stalin, and on and on and on. Does that mean you would follow/support/defend those men just because God raised them up, specifically to show us what not to follow (to only follow/support/defend Him)?

That is not to say that I think Trump, or Obama, Clinton, Bush, etc., are like Hitler and Stalin, they are not. But that doesn't mean the same principle doesn't apply.

You should have started here. But then you did not, and revealed what is really in your heart. What came out was hatred, and now to come around to the fact that good or evil leaders are all raised up by God, is obviously you just back peddling.

But it's not too late to change. Did you want to retract your part in this hateful conspiracy campaign, and praise God for His sovereignty in spite of your feelings for the man, and discuss or speculate on why He has raised up such leaders?