Christian Doctor Performs Abortions

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Foreigner

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I really don't know what to make of this.
He calls himself a Christian, but doesn't explain what his specific definition of a Christian is.
The U.S. filled with millions of people who call themselves Christians, yet are that in name only.

Obviously just because someone calls themself a Christian, that doesn't mean they are.
And in this particular case, the actions appear to negate the words.

On a broader note, one of the biggest ways that Christianity is currently (and will continue to be ) undermined are those individuals and denominations that state that they are Christians, but what they believe / stand for / support is anything but Christ and what He taught.

It isn't even a house divided against itself. It involves those that aren't really part of the family...

My biggest concern is that those who do not know Christ will see this as a sign that this is an acceptable practice within Christianity.

And worse yet, secularists will use this as 'proof' that those who truly do follow Christ's teachings are the ones who are the ones who aren't really Christians.


Why I perform abortions: A Christian obstetrician explains his choice


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Willie J. Parker, an obstetrician based in Washington, D.C., didn’t always perform abortions. He’s a Christian from Birmingham, Ala., who initially refused to even consider the procedure.
But about halfway into his 20-year career, he changed his mind. Now, he’s one of those rare doctors who is willing to push the limits and provide abortions at 24 weeks of pregnancy. That places him among only about 11 percent of all abortion providers who will do the procedure that late in the second trimester.
Some people are determined to stop him. Congress is considering a ban on all abortions after 20 weeks in the district, which would affect Parker directly. Six other states already have one, passed within the last two years. A record number of new restrictions on abortions were enacted last year, including bans, waiting periods and limiting insurance coverage.
A small percentage of women have abortions beyond 13 weeks. But it troubles Parker that abortion supporters and opponents are increasingly willing to bargain about second-trimester abortions in the interest of finding common ground. While this may create a more civil discourse, he says, in the end, it’s dangerous to the health interests of women.
It’s the individual stories of the women who came to him that made him see things that way, he says. He now views the abortion debate through the prism of their particular realities.
Ironically, it’s the lack of access to abortion care that often pushes women to have abortions later in pregnancy, Parker says. He spoke to Star-Ledger editorial writer Julie O’Connor about why he performs them.

Q. Why did you change your outlook on abortion?
A. I wrestled with the morality of it. I grew up in the South and in fundamentalist Protestantism, I was taught that abortion is wrong.
Yet as I pursued my career as an OB/GYN, I saw the dilemmas that women found themselves in. And I could no longer weigh the life of a pre-viable or lethally flawed fetus equally with the life of the woman sitting before me.
In listening to a sermon by Dr. Martin Luther King, I came to a deeper understanding of my spirituality, which places a higher value on compassion. King said what made the good Samaritan “good” is that instead of focusing on would happen to him by stopping to help the traveler, he was more concerned about what would happen to the traveler if he didn’t stop to help.
I became more concerned about what would happen to these women if I, as an obstetrician, did not help them.

Q. You say women in their second trimester often have the most compelling need for an abortion. Why?
A. They lack access to health care or don’t have an understanding of their body changes, and often figure out later that they’re pregnant. Or they find out early enough that they’re pregnant, but their lack of access to health care or volatile, dysfunctional relationships delay seeking help.
The women most likely to be in those situations are trapped in poverty, often women of color or poor socioeconomic backgrounds, less education, and women and girls at the extremes of reproductive age. Women beyond the age where they think they can become pregnant, or young girls who have infrequent and irregular sexual activity and aren’t conscious of it.
Starting with those women as the ones you’d cut off is kind of ironic, because they have the most compelling reasons to consider abortion in the first place.

Q. Like what?
A. The reality is that unplanned, unwanted pregnancies occur to women in all walks of life and all demographics. One in three women will terminate a pregnancy in her lifetime.
I had a patient who was a 32-year-old attorney, senior staff for a prominent U.S. senator. She and her husband had their first pregnancy and were very excited about it, only to find out in the 21st week that there was a lethal, severe developmental abnormality. They waited until the 23rd week because it was a rare disorder and they didn’t want to have an abortion unless that rare condition was absolutely confirmed.
Another patient of mine was a 13-year-old girl with a very quiet demeanor, which her parents perceived as model behavior. But an uncle who was staying with the family had been sexually molesting her and she kept quiet about it for months until he left. She concealed that pregnancy until she was 19 weeks along, and ended up having a termination at 20 weeks.
These are typical circumstances for second-trimester abortions.

Q. Why else might someone have a later-term abortion?
A. Abortion should be considered a part of reproductive health care and a basic human right, but it’s not. It’s hard to access. About 85 percent of women live in a county where there’s no abortion provider. The distribution is even more dire in rural areas, where 90 percent of women have no provider. Many women have to travel long distances just to get to a provider.
That could easily help you understand why laws that impose waiting limits and notifications further distort the reality of women’s access to abortion care.

Q. Explain why limitations on abortion trouble you.
A. It forces women to take into account the sensibility of people who don’t have firsthand information about what the circumstances are in that woman’s life. It creates a duty and obligation for a woman to make her decision in a time frame acceptable to people other than herself. That time frame may or may not be realistic, and it fails to take into account the complexity of decision-making when it comes to abortion.
As people sit around, and theorize and debate about what should be a reasonable or common ground, the voices of the people who are most affected by this decision are lost. They aren’t represented in these dialogues. Their specific realities don’t count.
So conversations that feel like progress actually end up with restrictions in place on women in desperate circumstances. They don’t reduce unintended pregnancies, they don’t create more access to medically accurate sex education and modern forms of contraception — but they do result in restrictions and rules that push women to desperate measures.

Q. The vast majority of states restrict later-term abortions. Six of them do so after 20 weeks, as lawmakers are considering for D.C., on the grounds that a fetus can feel pain at some point. Is that true?
A. There is no scientific information to support that. The bulk of the scientifically credible evidence shows that the structures that are necessary to feel pain are not developed in fetuses earlier than the 25th week.

Q. So where’s the cutoff line for you?
A. I don’t do abortions beyond 24 weeks and 6 days. In the absence of lifesaving measures, my cutoff is the legal limit. That becomes a moving target, but nobody in D.C. does them beyond 25 weeks. Once a fetus has the possibility to survive outside the womb — with or without extraordinary support measures — I will not do an abortion. The only exception is if a woman’s life is in danger or the fetus is fatally flawed.

Q. In ad campaigns, abortion opponents have argued it disproportionately targets minority babies. Your take?
A. That’s a very cynical manipulation of the reality that the abortion rate is higher in the African-American and Latino communities because their unplanned pregnancy rates are higher and the availability of modern contraception is lower.
And in the same breath of feigning concern about black women and black babies, abortion opponents are limiting access to contraception and defunding health care and child care programs, and all the other things that would be even more necessary if more of the unplanned, unwanted pregnancies were carried to term.

Q. You have a controversial job. Do you worry about your own safety?
A. I’m aware of the risks. There are people who feel strongly about the work that I do. I exercise judgment and discretion, but to be overly concerned about the fact that someone might hurt me for trying to live out my conscience and provide care for women would be a distraction. I think my work is honorable and important, and I won’t be distracted. It’s what I believe in my heart is the right thing to do.


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aspen

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oh boy...

This is a real problem. In fact, I find this to be most disturbing.

The questions of - should abortion be legal? And should Christians preform/receive abortions? Are two totally different issues for me.

Very troubling.

IMO, Christians have no business in the realm of abortion - absolutely not! Having an abortion is excusable depending on the circumstances - preforming an abortion as a Christian; completely outrageous and inexcusable.

What is right for Christians and what is legal and right for pagans is different.
 

Rach1370

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To me, this was the line I found most interesting:

"It’s the individual stories of the women who came to him that made him see things that way, he says. He now views the abortion debate through the prism of their particular realities."

Granted, every woman would have an individual story, maybe even a very good one. But the moment we start viewing this issue through 'human' eyes and not God's, we loose. The moment we look just at the woman and forget the life hiding behind her, depending on her, we loose.

Really, the question has to be this: does the possible hardship this woman may face because of this pregnancy worth murder?
 

layhoma

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:eek:

Given the benefit of the doubt that he was a Christian and may still be (at least that's what he thinks) What shifted his paradigm is the opposing spiritual principalities that are in work. IMO he must have done something or believed in a false doctrine that had opened a gate for evil spirits to enter his life and has been in control ever since.

Men are capable to do evil in many ways because of sin. But men who are capable to do extreme evil are no doubt under the influence of supernatural forces that are puppeteering their host to their work in the most defile ways.

This is not simple demonic oppression but full demonic possession.
 
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It is good to be concerned for the women, but he came to decide the unborn life was a pre-viable foetus. It is still a life in development, that is observable fact, so what made him decide it was not viable?
That is like saying the woman is no longer viable because she has obviously lost her mind in thinking she can kill her unborn.

They did this in Judges/Kings and Chronicles. In Judges they had no king and did as they saw fit. They did what they saw as right, but was evil in the eyes of the Lord. It depends on the word of God, the scripture doesnt support pro-choice abortion. Notice he claims he is a Christian but makes no reference to the word. All through the Bible we have God urging people to obey His word yet we have an increasingly counterfit scriptureless christianity.
 

xBluxTunicx82

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Simply, he is not a Christian. He is secular, worldly, not of God. There is no good excuse for an abortion, there are many women that are barren that would happily care for the children. No reason to put them to death. Here, read this to find out what they do with the babies after they kill them http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2140702/South-Korea-customs-officials-thousands-pills-filled-powdered-human-baby-flesh.html Hmm, I wonder where all those babies come from? US is number one in the world for abortions, something like 300,000 a day? That number may be off, but 1 is far to many.

:eek:

Given the benefit of the doubt that he was a Christian and may still be (at least that's what he thinks) What shifted his paradigm is the opposing spiritual principalities that are in work. IMO he must have done something or believed in a false doctrine that had opened a gate for evil spirits to enter his life and has been in control ever since.

Men are capable to do evil in many ways because of sin. But men who are capable to do extreme evil are no doubt under the influence of supernatural forces that are puppeteering their host to their work in the most defile ways.

This is not simple demonic oppression but full demonic possession.
Or, it could be modern day Ba'al priests giving our children over to Moloch.
 

layhoma

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A close brother in Christ once told me Satan's worshipers or anyone who are under the control of demonic entities; who are legit doctors/nurses that work in hospitals would find ways to take lives. Especially those that are for the lack of a better word, salvageable like the ones rolling in to the ER because of trauma.

Such with all the commotions when a person's life is hanging on the fence, how easy it is just to give it a little push, or a little needle prick.

I use to think this idea is a little over stretched but not anymore.
 

aspen

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Abortion is morally wrong. A Christian who participates in this heinous act doesn't understand the importance of preserving life.....Christ died for all of those babies too.
 
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Abortion is morally wrong. A Christian who participates in this heinous act doesn't understand the importance of preserving life.....Christ died for all of those babies too.
Amen Well said

There is an important lesson here as with so many cases emerging today, the claim that someone is a Christian to support their view or actions. ie their view must be a Christian view because they are Christian.
I have heard this so often recently, not least those voting for gay 'marriage' because they are 'Christians'.

One cant logically call someone 'not a Christian' who has one view that needs challenging or perhaps correcting, but one logically can call someone not a Christian if they are proposing one view that is false on the basis they are Christian.
But how are we as believers to address this, which is really Satan's influence masquerading as light.

I would really like to know the views of my fellow brothers and sisters here on this point.
 

Foreigner

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Aspen, you say that abortions are "morally wrong." Am I remembering incorrectly though that you do not feel we should attempt to create laws to restrict abortion? If I'm wrong, let me know.

I have been following this "discussion" for decades.

At first, when society was less accepting of the idea that a woman can end a childs life simply because of "inconvenience" the argument was that it wasn't a real baby in the first place, but rather a collection of unformed tissues.

Ultrasounds, the ability to hear the heartbeat, etc. pushed them back to the second line of defense which was that while they can see the outline of the baby and hear a heartbeat, it isn't able to live on it's own and is therefore still not considered a human being. One liberal lady I often spoke with liked to equate it to a chicken egg which, until the chicken pecks its way out of the shell, isn't counted as a chicken.

But when new technology came about that allowed for care of the child inside of the womb, as well as allowing the baby to survive outside the womb at a much, much earlier age than first thought, liberals discarded any illusion of reason and have simply said, "If it is inside my body, then up until the time I allow it to be born, I should be allowed to abort it."

One lady told me that it doesn't matter if it is nine months and one day, until that "fetus" makes the trip down the birth canal, it is hers and she can do with it as she wishes.

Photos such as this have little if any impact:

clancy2small.jpg


And they pushed it even further.
Though there is rarely a need for third-trimester abortion or partial-birth abortion (If mother's life is in danger, mother will suffer permanent injury, severe abnormality discovered in fetus, etc.) they feel it should still be the mother's call, even if those criteria aren't met.

Their range of justification goes from merit to ludicrous.
But when you have to resort to the "So are all those people who oppose abortion going to adopt these children?' defense, it is obvious that what an abortion doctor I heard speak once said:
"Color it as you will, but well over 80% of all abortions are simply by choice. The woman is mentally and physically able to be a mother, there is no accusation of rape or abuse, and the fetus is healthy and would likely have easily got to term if not 'interrupted.'"

(For the record there are tens of thousands of couples in the U.S. currently waiting and hoping for the chance to adopt.
A Lutheran medical website said that for every fetus aborted, there are at least 36 couples waiting for the chance to adopt.)

There are people who call themselves Catholics in my own city who tell me that we should not oppose abortion because the child that is being "terminated" is going straight to heaven to be with the Lord anyway so it is actually a humane thing to do to them.

I have been told (again by people of multiple faiths) that that trumps Psalm 139:13 and that God is fine knitting a child in the mothers womb only to have His work literally destroyed because he will then have that child with him in person immediately.

Then there are those who say that they are Christian, but it is wrong for us to "impose" out standards as far as the value of life, etc. on others. Therefore it is wrong to protest, offer counseling, vote to oppose, etc.

The funny thing about that argument is that it could be used to try to undermine every single solitary law on the books.
Every law "imposes" a standard of right or wrong on people who may feel differently so - according to these people - those laws should not be supported, either.

What it comes down to is that a woman doesn't have to be held responsible for her chosen actions so she chooses to do the shortcut to "get her life back" even as she without a trace of irony says she is acting responsibly.



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aspen

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Abortion laws are way, way too permissive in the US. I am in favor of tightening our laws drastically. However, I am not in favor of saving the infant at all costs so I am not against a complete ban on abortion.

Foreigner - I think you might have been confusing my position on abortion because I have said that I will not vote for a candidate based on one issue.
 

Strat

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One has to tip their hat to the feminist on this one,they have secured for women a right that has never existed before ,the right to murder another human being for any reason they choose...way to go guys...and gals you certainly have come a long way,and what a PR campaign...when a man abandons his children he is a low life deadbeat this and that and so and so as he should be.

The woman however always comes out looking good,if she chooses to have the child then she is a brave woman raising a child on her own and she receives the almost saint like title of "single mother".......if she chooses to put the child up for adoption then she is a selfless mother doing what is best for the child......if she chooses to murder the child then she is just doing what i best for all involved by not bringing yet another unwanted child into the world,yada,yada,yada and blah blah blah.....no matter where the child winds up,in a single mother home or being adopted or in your local landfill....mom is still seen as a victim of some evil man or circumstances the poor dear just couldn't help...it is murder and we are drowning in a sea of innocent blood that cries out to God daily for justice.
 

aspen

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I think men have been killing people for any reason they choose for a lot longer - it is called war.
 

Rach1370

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One has to tip their hat to the feminist on this one,they have secured for women a right that has never existed before ,the right to murder another human being for any reason they choose...way to go guys...and gals you certainly have come a long way,and what a PR campaign...when a man abandons his children he is a low life deadbeat this and that and so and so as he should be.

The woman however always comes out looking good,if she chooses to have the child then she is a brave woman raising a child on her own and she receives the almost saint like title of "single mother".......if she chooses to put the child up for adoption then she is a selfless mother doing what is best for the child......if she chooses to murder the child then she is just doing what i best for all involved by not bringing yet another unwanted child into the world,yada,yada,yada and blah blah blah.....no matter where the child winds up,in a single mother home or being adopted or in your local landfill....mom is still seen as a victim of some evil man or circumstances the poor dear just couldn't help...it is murder and we are drowning in a sea of innocent blood that cries out to God daily for justice.

Correct. The whole feminist movement is rubbish. I'm a woman, and I appreciate equality. But equality is exactly what the bible teaches. Different roles, yes, but equal worth all the same. The feminist would have women become the tyrants that men currently are in Muslim countries. The huge problem with this is that women simply can't respect a man they can walk all over. Bit of a problem, really.
 
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Foreigner,
Aspen, you say that abortions are "morally wrong." Am I remembering incorrectly though that you do not feel we should attempt to create laws to restrict abortion? If I'm wrong, let me know.
Good point! Where this happens, and it is happening more and more, it shows people don’t really think it’s as wrong as they claim. Given something such as paedophilia there is absolutely no way they would vote to allow adults to sexually abuse children, yet when it comes to a doctor terminating the life of an unborn child they wouldn’t legislate against it on the account of the supposed free choice of the mother. I believe this is what the Bible calls double mindedness.
 

xBluxTunicx82

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Sometimes men killed people because it was commanded by God! He mad an everlasting covenant with Phinehas in Number 25:1-8 because He impaled people that were sleeping outside of their race. Hence the immorality and adultery being commited with medianite and moabite women... God doesn't condemn preserving His law on this earth.