Joshua David
New Member
- Feb 10, 2011
- 291
- 15
- 0
Duckybill,
Let's look at the scripture.
John 5:5-9 [sup]5[/sup]And a certain man was there, which had an infirmity thirty and eight years.
[sup]6[/sup]When Jesus saw him lie, and knew that he had been now a long time in that case, he saith unto him, Wilt thou be made whole?
[sup]7[/sup]The impotent man answered him, Sir, I have no man, when the water is troubled, to put me into the pool: but while I am coming, another steppeth down before me.
[sup]8[/sup]Jesus saith unto him, Rise, take up thy bed, and walk.
[sup]9[/sup]And immediately the man was made whole, and took up his bed, and walked: and on the same day was the sabbath.
John 5:14-16 [sup]14[/sup]Afterward Jesus findeth him in the temple, and said unto him, Behold, thou art made whole: sin no more, lest a worse thing come unto thee.
[sup]15[/sup]The man departed, and told the Jews that it was Jesus, which had made him whole. <a name="16">
[sup]16[/sup]And therefore did the Jews persecute Jesus, and sought to slay him, because he had done these things on the sabbath day.
This took place before the cross, so the church, as well as the Age of Grace had not even come into effect yet. Jesus was proving his identity as the Messiah here. Here is the other thing.. The guy had to have faith that Christ would heal him. Therefore, Christ told him to sin no more after he had accepted by faith that Christ could do what he said he could. So either way. This is not the same thing. I believe that this person was truly made whole, spiritually and physically. And it was after he was made whole, that Christ told him to go and sin no more. When are we made whole spiritually? When we come to Christ and enter into the Church and become a part of the Bride. Is it appropriate to tell someone in the church that they should not be sinning? Yes! I had already admitted as much.
You are absolutely right I am judging. But who am I judging? I am judging those people who call themselves Christians. Just as Paul judged those 'christians' in the Corinthian church. Have I ever stated that Homosexuality was not a sin? Let' see. Allow me to quote from my own posts.
So I ask you, in what way do I defend living sinfully? Please quote where I said it was ok to live sinfully.
Foreigner,
Close, the gospel is that the Holy Spirit calls to us, and that we can respond to the Holy Spirit because he first called to us. Once we respond to the Holy Spirit and we accept our sinful state, and acknowledge our need for a savior, once we accept Jesus Christ as our Lord and Savior, then the Holy Spirit will enter us and we become born again. It is at this point that we become Justified and are sealed unto the Day of Redemption. Then the Holy Spirit begins a Sanctification work in us, breaking the chains of sin, and allowing us to be overcomers. And one day, when we receive our glorified bodies, we will experience the Glorification, where our sin nature will finally be permanently removed.
I am so glad that you put that in your post because you gave a perfect example of the proper way to do it. Did this person share with you the fact that living, and more importantly sleeping with this woman was a sin before or after you came to believe on the Lord? I would bet that before you came to the church, imagine if someone would have held up a sign that said, God hates fornicators. Living in sin is getting ready to burn. If you don't leave this woman then you are going to Hell. What would have been your response? Would it have given you that nice warm fuzzy feeling? Or would you have marched out there and tell this person that if he doesn't leave you were going to punch his lights out. Would the person holding the sign have changed your mind? No! But the person that led you to the Lord. After you were led to the Lord, this person lovingly shared what God put on their heart. You might not have seen anything wrong with it at the time, but you can't tell that the Holy Spirit wouldn't have convicted your heart. But whether it is through the word of a brother or sister, or though an inward conviction, or just opening your mind up to his word, The Holy Spirit was the one who worked out your Santification in dealing with your living situation.
I disagree. Try telling someone out of the church that is running around on his wife that adultery is a sin and he needs to go back to his wife. He will more than likely tell you to shut up and mind your own business, or someone who is alcoholic, or addicted to drugs, or watches porn. Homosexuality is not a special type of super sin. Sin is sin. People who are bound by sin can only be set free by coming to the church. What you have to consider is are you drawing people to Christ or pushing them away.
Christ met people where they were. He loved them, ate with them, healed them, and then told them to sin no more. He did not tell them to sin no more and then only accepted them if they were perfect and sinless. Shouldn't we do the same?
Joshua David
[font="tahoma][size="2"]Jesus did.[/size][/font][font="tahoma]
[b][url="http://biblia.com/bible/nkjv/John%205.14"]John 5:14 (NKJV)[/url] [/b]
[/font]
[font="tahoma][size="2"][sup]14 [/sup]Afterward Jesus found him in the temple, and said to him, "See, you have been made well. SIN NO MORE, lest a worse thing come upon you." [/size][/font]
Let's look at the scripture.
John 5:5-9 [sup]5[/sup]And a certain man was there, which had an infirmity thirty and eight years.
[sup]6[/sup]When Jesus saw him lie, and knew that he had been now a long time in that case, he saith unto him, Wilt thou be made whole?
[sup]7[/sup]The impotent man answered him, Sir, I have no man, when the water is troubled, to put me into the pool: but while I am coming, another steppeth down before me.
[sup]8[/sup]Jesus saith unto him, Rise, take up thy bed, and walk.
[sup]9[/sup]And immediately the man was made whole, and took up his bed, and walked: and on the same day was the sabbath.
John 5:14-16 [sup]14[/sup]Afterward Jesus findeth him in the temple, and said unto him, Behold, thou art made whole: sin no more, lest a worse thing come unto thee.
[sup]15[/sup]The man departed, and told the Jews that it was Jesus, which had made him whole. <a name="16">
[sup]16[/sup]And therefore did the Jews persecute Jesus, and sought to slay him, because he had done these things on the sabbath day.
This took place before the cross, so the church, as well as the Age of Grace had not even come into effect yet. Jesus was proving his identity as the Messiah here. Here is the other thing.. The guy had to have faith that Christ would heal him. Therefore, Christ told him to sin no more after he had accepted by faith that Christ could do what he said he could. So either way. This is not the same thing. I believe that this person was truly made whole, spiritually and physically. And it was after he was made whole, that Christ told him to go and sin no more. When are we made whole spiritually? When we come to Christ and enter into the Church and become a part of the Bride. Is it appropriate to tell someone in the church that they should not be sinning? Yes! I had already admitted as much.
[font="tahoma][size="2"]"These people"? Sounds like you are judging.[/size][/font][font="tahoma] [/font][/color]
[color="#5D5D5D"][font="tahoma][size="2"]Those who defend living sinful lives will also be held accountable.[/size][/font]
You are absolutely right I am judging. But who am I judging? I am judging those people who call themselves Christians. Just as Paul judged those 'christians' in the Corinthian church. Have I ever stated that Homosexuality was not a sin? Let' see. Allow me to quote from my own posts.
[font="tahoma][size="2"]Here is the thing. Do I believe that homosexuality is a sin? Absolutely.[/size][/font]
So I ask you, in what way do I defend living sinfully? Please quote where I said it was ok to live sinfully.
Foreigner,
[font="tahoma][size="2"]-- The gospel states that we are all sinners but that Jesus died to pay the price for our sins. It teaches that all we have to do is TURN AWAY FROM OUT SIN, accept Him as your personal Savior, and you will be saved. [/size][/font][font="tahoma] [/font][/color]
[color="#5D5D5D"][font="tahoma][size="2"]If you tell them to accept Jesus, but don't tell them what it entails, you are in fact being dishonest with them.[/size][/font]
Close, the gospel is that the Holy Spirit calls to us, and that we can respond to the Holy Spirit because he first called to us. Once we respond to the Holy Spirit and we accept our sinful state, and acknowledge our need for a savior, once we accept Jesus Christ as our Lord and Savior, then the Holy Spirit will enter us and we become born again. It is at this point that we become Justified and are sealed unto the Day of Redemption. Then the Holy Spirit begins a Sanctification work in us, breaking the chains of sin, and allowing us to be overcomers. And one day, when we receive our glorified bodies, we will experience the Glorification, where our sin nature will finally be permanently removed.
[font="tahoma][size="2"]If the person who led me to the Lord hadn't pointed out to me that living with the woman I love outside of marraige was a sin, I would have continued to do it, assuming that since God is love and I love her then He would be fine with it, I would have continued in that sin and would have either fallen away from God due to seperation from the Holy Spirit and/or died in my sin and gotten a rude surpise when standing before God.
[/size][/font]
I am so glad that you put that in your post because you gave a perfect example of the proper way to do it. Did this person share with you the fact that living, and more importantly sleeping with this woman was a sin before or after you came to believe on the Lord? I would bet that before you came to the church, imagine if someone would have held up a sign that said, God hates fornicators. Living in sin is getting ready to burn. If you don't leave this woman then you are going to Hell. What would have been your response? Would it have given you that nice warm fuzzy feeling? Or would you have marched out there and tell this person that if he doesn't leave you were going to punch his lights out. Would the person holding the sign have changed your mind? No! But the person that led you to the Lord. After you were led to the Lord, this person lovingly shared what God put on their heart. You might not have seen anything wrong with it at the time, but you can't tell that the Holy Spirit wouldn't have convicted your heart. But whether it is through the word of a brother or sister, or though an inward conviction, or just opening your mind up to his word, The Holy Spirit was the one who worked out your Santification in dealing with your living situation.
You witness to homosexuals just like everyone else: Let them know that you too were a sinner but that you have turned from that and you now have Jesus as your savior and are going to heaven.
You let them know that God loves them as much as He loves you and wants the best for them.
If you have ever witnessed to someone who is homosexual, though you find out that, unlike practices of other sins, many are unwilling to accept that what they do is an actual sin and they become upset because you won't agree with them.
I disagree. Try telling someone out of the church that is running around on his wife that adultery is a sin and he needs to go back to his wife. He will more than likely tell you to shut up and mind your own business, or someone who is alcoholic, or addicted to drugs, or watches porn. Homosexuality is not a special type of super sin. Sin is sin. People who are bound by sin can only be set free by coming to the church. What you have to consider is are you drawing people to Christ or pushing them away.
Christ met people where they were. He loved them, ate with them, healed them, and then told them to sin no more. He did not tell them to sin no more and then only accepted them if they were perfect and sinless. Shouldn't we do the same?
Joshua David