Christian Predeterminism Exposed

[Aunty Jane]

Christian predeterminism makes no practical sense and is an abhorrent teaching, that God purposely and wilfully makes some men to do good, and others to do evil. That is what James calls a false accusation against God. Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man.

I have always believed in free will, otherwise the tree of “the knowledge of good and evil” would not have been in the garden, and there would have been no command to refrain from taking this fruit that God placed explicitly in his own possession. Humans at the outset were given choices and penalties, meaning that it was wise to obey God and very unwise to disobey him.....still there was the choice.

Actually He does foreknow, which He plainly says, because He foresees all things. It's just that He does no predetermine what He knows. He doesn't create on person to believe Him and another not to, and then watches it come to pass as He predestines.

Exactly.....free will means that God knows exactly what will happen IF a person chooses to disobey him. He tells them in advance, as he did to Adam, what will transpire if his laws are broken. He did the same with Israel...no one can say our Creator is unjust if his laws are clearly stated, and so are the “blessings and the curses”. We choose the action, so we choose the consequence.

The only predestination of God is the manner of His natural creation, so that a tree produces trees, and whales produce whales, and humans produce humans. What is different about man and trees and whales, is that man is created in God's spiritual image to think, intend, and imagaine freely. Which includes the liberty to obey or disobey Him, either for our own life or our own destruction.

Yes, imagining that we have no choices makes this life meaningless.
Those in the animal kingdom are ‘programmed’ by instinct for the life that God intended for them....to eat, drink and procreate their species indefinitely in a cycle of life.....but we alone are made in God’s image....we alone have a concept of “past, present and future”, which animals lack because “now” is all that exists for them, even though a past experience can make them wary of a familiar present one. They can learn from the past, but they have no concept of the future beyond their present need.
We are unique in that capacity. We alone can plan the future consciously.
The Bible is full of stories of people who made choices and the outcomes that followed......we can see how things panned out for them and use our intelligence and imagination to figure it out.

I call heaven and earth to record this day against you, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing: therefore choose life, that both thou and thy seed may live.

Free will is good if we choose wisely, but is our own worst enemy if we choose evil.

That is something that is lost on the majority who feel as if there are no choices.

“Life or death” is all God ever put before his people.....he never said they had a choice between “heaven and hell”. That is not a biblical concept, but borrowed from pagan ideas about immortality of the soul....something Jews were never taught from their scripture, but adopted in later centuries from the Greeks.

He can't be saying we have no choice in serving Him, because He tells us to make that choice once for all, and quit being double-hearted about it.

And when the judgment comes, it will hit many very hard because the choices they made were not just about “believing” (James 2:19) but about what they did with their beliefs, and where they actually came from. Most have no idea that much of what they believe was never taught by the Jesus Christ that they claim to follow.
The “weeds” of counterfeit “Christianity” that Jesus spoke about were not sown recently....we have in the history of the nation of Israel, what happens when we deviate from what the scriptures teach and justify them by pretending that they are biblical, when they are anything but.
What did Jesus say about the religious leaders of his day? (Matt 15:7-9; Matt 23:33)
Those who lead will have double accountability for what they teach.

 

[ScottA]

Whoa, hold on there. The Word was God, not conceived by God. Are you teaching Christ was created by God before the foundation of the world? That's what the JW's teach.

God and the Word were before creation, not any man. And the Word did not become a man until after creation and the first man, which is why He is called the second Adam.

No, I did not say "created", but "conceived", as it is written, "I will send my beloved son."

 

[ScottA]

Whoahoho again. Adam was not on planet earth, nor come into the world? Are you saying the garden was somewhere out of this world, and only after Adam sinned was he run out of the garden into this world?

And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

And the LORD God planted a garden eastward in Eden; and there he put the man whom he had formed. And out of the ground made the LORD God to grow every tree that is pleasant to the sight, and good for food; the tree of life also in the midst of the garden, and the tree of knowledge of good and evil.

This is planet earth in this world.

You are not following well. No, although brief, I gave the same indications as God did...which is that Adam was first in the garden in the presence of God, but "eastward", meaning toward evil...(just as the promised land was allotted "from the east side to the west")--then out of the garden altogether. Which does not speak of the earth, but of the presence of God and the world apart from Him.

 

[ScottA]

Now you're saying all men and women were in Adam before the world, and we are only manifestations of Adam when entering the womb? Each soul and person is created individually by Christ, and is created the same way as Adam was, except not from the dust without the womb of a woman.

We are all individually still created the same way as Adam by the Spirit of God breathed into our nostrils in the womb and lightened by Christ coming into the world. And like Adam, we have all then sinned against God in the world. Other than that, I have nothing to do with Adam, nor he with me.

We were not all in Adam before the world began, and we have not all sinned with Adam, when he sinned. This must be some kind of source teaching for all men were made sinners before coming into the world, and it's false. The only way to be made a sinner is make ourselves transgressors by sinning, not by being in Adam sinning with him before and outside the world, and then born sinners into the world.

You say like Adam but not, but individual. But I have said "all in Adam", just as it is written.

 

[ScottA]

So once again, what is the practical affect this thinking has had on you and your life? Even if it's just a new way of breathing, that would still be something tangible.

There is no practicality in dying, but rather in living. Thus, it is also written, "the flesh profits nothing."

 

[ScottA]

Well, it's your own fault, because you don't write things plainly. I've spoken to you before about this doctrinal language you use, is mostly lost on me. I have to try and decipher it, and then ask you if that is what you mean, and it can go on for three or four posts, because you finally say something outright.

Seeing then that we have such hope, we use great plainness of speech.

If you have any hope of me understanding you the first time, then let's make a deal. After you write in your usual way, conclude it by saying, "That all means this..." Finish with a conclusion, that is so simple and crystal clear, that I can't mistake you for saying something else. Thanks.

Should I therefore renew my language, or as it is written, you "the renewing of your mind?" I have explained, and I have also explained my explanation, and will continue to do so--to a point.

The problem here is not clarity or plainness of speech, but of darkness and of seeing dimly. The light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it.

 

[ButterflyJones]

I have always believed in free will, otherwise the tree of “the knowledge of good and evil” would not have been in the garden, and there would have been no command to refrain from taking this fruit that God placed explicitly in his own possession. Humans at the outset were given choices and penalties, meaning that it was wise to obey God and very unwise to disobey him.....still there was the choice.

Exactly.....free will means that God knows exactly what will happen IF a person chooses to disobey him. He tells them in advance, as he did to Adam, what will transpire if his laws are broken. He did the same with Israel...no one can say our Creator is unjust if his laws are clearly stated, and so are the “blessings and the curses”. We choose the action, so we choose the consequence.

Yes, imagining that we have no choices makes this life meaningless.
Those in the animal kingdom are ‘programmed’ by instinct for the life that God intended for them....to eat, drink and procreate their species indefinitely in a cycle of life.....but we alone are made in God’s image....we alone have a concept of “past, present and future”, which animals lack because “now” is all that exists for them, even though a past experience can make them wary of a familiar present one. They can learn from the past, but they have no concept of the future beyond their present need.
We are unique in that capacity. We alone can plan the future consciously.
The Bible is full of stories of people who made choices and the outcomes that followed......we can see how things panned out for them and use our intelligence and imagination to figure it out.

That is something that is lost on the majority who feel as if there are no choices.

“Life or death” is all God ever put before his people.....he never said they had a choice between “heaven and hell”. That is not a biblical concept, but borrowed from pagan ideas about immortality of the soul....something Jews were never taught from their scripture, but adopted in later centuries from the Greeks.

And when the judgment comes, it will hit many very hard because the choices they made were not just about “believing” (James 2:19) but about what they did with their beliefs, and where they actually came from. Most have no idea that much of what they believe was never taught by the Jesus Christ that they claim to follow.
The “weeds” of counterfeit “Christianity” that Jesus spoke about were not sown recently....we have in the history of the nation of Israel, what happens when we deviate from what the scriptures teach and justify them by pretending that they are biblical, when they are anything but.
What did Jesus say about the religious leaders of his day? (Matt 15:7-9; Matt 23:33)
Those who lead will have double accountability for what they teach.

Man plans his way but God sets his steps.

The lot (destiny) is cast into the lap, but its every decision is from the LORD.

 

[ButterflyJones]

True Christian determinism is that God creates and determines all men with faith to be conformed to His Son's image. Not just some.

That can only be by free will given to man to know and love God, unlike beasts of the field.

Thou art worthy, O Lord, to receive glory and honour and power: for thou hast created all things, and for thy pleasure they are and were created.

Every man that sins against God, must therefore wilfully choose to disobey and sin against Him, in opposition to how we are all created in His image.

God's determined will for all men at creation, is with faith to love Him, not with unbelief to hate Him.

Determination of some to not believe at creation, is the exact opposite of the truth that God loves all people, and creates all people the same in His image. God is love, and love is His only image.

And yet, God tells us our natural minds, the consciousness natural to humans, cannot understand the things of God because they are foolishness to them. Only Holy Spirits intercession changes that .

 

[Aunty Jane]

Man plans his way but God sets his steps.

God sets out the way for us to go (Jeremiah 10:23).....but free will determines what path we take....there are two "roads" plainly stated by Jesus. (Matt 7:13-14) We choose our own destiny by the way we live our life....in harmony with God's requirements....or in opposition to them.

The lot (destiny) is cast into the lap, but its every decision is from the LORD.

The "casting of lots" was common in Bible times.....it allowed Jehovah to determined between alternative choices.
The “casting of lots” was a way for men to determine God's will in a matter and for him to reveal it.
There are quite a few instances where lots were cast to gain Jehovah's decision on a matter.....like the choosing of Matthias to replace Judas....
Acts 1:23-26....
"So they proposed two, Joseph called Barʹsab·bas, who was also called Justus, and Mat·thiʹas. 24 Then they prayed and said: “You, O Jehovah, who know the hearts of all, designate which one of these two men you have chosen 25 to take the place of this ministry and apostleship, from which Judas deviated to go to his own place.” 26 So they cast lots over them, and the lot fell to Mat·thiʹas, and he was counted along with the 11 apostles."

But as to the destiny of individual humans.....no "lots" are mentioned.
God's words to Israel were.....
Deuteronomy 30:15-17....
“See, I do put before you today life and good, and death and bad. 16 If you listen to the commandments of Jehovah your God that I am commanding you today, by loving Jehovah your God, by walking in his ways, and by keeping his commandments and his statutes and his judicial decisions, then you will live and multiply, and Jehovah your God will bless you in the land you are going to possess.

17 “But if your heart turns away and you do not listen and you are enticed and bow down to other gods and serve them, 18 I tell you today that you will certainly perish."

Can you see those small words..."if" and "then" and "but if"....this is drawing attention to free willed choices.....if we had no free will, there would not be an "If" and "then" or a "but if".....this shows that any decision made was conditional, and had consequences.


Another misinterpretation is the way the expression, "from the founding of the world" is understood by most of Christendom. Digging deeper into the original language, this is not the creation of the planet, but the "founding of the kosmos"....or the world of mankind.

Jesus was not needed as a savior until humans fell into sin by the abuse of their free will.....yet satan was the one who abused his free will first.
If humans had simply obeyed their Creator, no sin would have entered the lives of the human race, (Romans 5:12) and they would not have needed Christ to come and pay for what Adam did.

The "founding of the world" of mankind took place with the birth of Cain.....the first human to be born by natural conception but burdened with 'original sin'.....the founding of the "kosmos"....human beings. Christ came to rescue Adam's children, born in sin through no fault on their part.

 

[Aunty Jane]

And yet, God tells us our natural minds, the consciousness natural to humans, cannot understand the things of God because they are foolishness to them. Only Holy Spirits intercession changes that .

I can see that you like to quote scripture, but devoid of context....
Paul is here directing attention to the difference between a 'natural man' and a 'spiritual man'.
He said....
"The natural person does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are folly to him, and he is not able to understand them because they are spiritually discerned. 15 The spiritual person judges all things, but is himself to be judged by no one. 16 “For who has understood the mind of the Lord so as to instruct him?” But we have the mind of Christ." (ESV)

Here we are shown that Jesus was the one who showed us the mind of "the Lord" (God), i.e. how he thinks and acts. Jesus so perfectly represented his God and Father, that we have no excuse to tell God that we don't understand what to do or how to act.....Jesus was the model. (1 Peter 2:21)

 

[ButterflyJones]

I can see that you like to quote scripture, but devoid of context....
Paul is here directing attention to the difference between a 'natural man' and a 'spiritual man'.
He said....
"The natural person does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are folly to him, and he is not able to understand them because they are spiritually discerned. 15 The spiritual person judges all things, but is himself to be judged by no one. 16 “For who has understood the mind of the Lord so as to instruct him?” But we have the mind of Christ." (ESV)

Here we are shown that Jesus was the one who showed us the mind of "the Lord" (God), i.e. how he thinks and acts. Jesus so perfectly represented his God and Father, that we have no excuse to tell God that we don't understand what to do or how to act.....Jesus was the model. (1 Peter 2:21)

I have long said context is key.

The scriptures must resonate in harmony to be understood as one divine message.

Omitting a passage to arrive at a preferred narrative contrary to the message God delivered is the stuff of ego and the natural mind.

Don't do that.

 

[Aunty Jane]

I have long said context is key.

It always is, but you have quoted scripture out of context.

The scriptures must resonate in harmony to be understood as one divine message.

Exactly, so why did you pluck those scriptures out of the air to reinforce your own accepted doctrines. In context, they do not say what you have inferred.

Omitting a passage to arrive at a preferred narrative contrary to the message God delivered is the stuff of ego and the natural mind.

Don't do that.

Please show me what I have omitted.....

"The message God delivered" is apparently what each one thinks it is, if you take note of what is said on these boards....what did Jesus say it was?

 

[Davy]

Christians predeterminism, as I understand it from those that teach it, is a kind of no-choice-about-it faith and salvation. God has already decided who will believe Him unto salvation, and who will not.

If it were a simple matter of foreknowing who would and would not, then that is just the omniscience of God. However, I have found that the teaching of predeterminism includes God creating men and women differently. It suggests that God is a respecter of persons. He actually creates and makes some in His image with power to believe and willingness to obey Him, while others are not, or are created of a lesser image of God. It's like God picking and choosing the winners of life's lottery, when He creates us. Those who are determined by God to believe and obey, shall do so, because He creates them that way, and those who are not determined to do so, shall not, because He purposely creates them another lesser way.

I find this most offensive, and an accusation against the God that is love and would have all men to be saved by faith in His Son.

The main verse of the Bible they use most is John 5:16, Ye have not chosen me, but I have chosen you, and ordained you, that ye should go and bring forth fruit, and that your fruit should remain: that whatsoever ye shall ask of the Father in my name, he may give it you.

They use this to say we have no individual choice in the matter of believing and being saved, but each person is fated one way or the other. It's the Christian version of pagan divine fatalism, that Jesus Christ came to destroy.

....

You will keep going around in circles on that subject until you begin to understand that those whom Jesus 'chose', The Father already owned them...

John 17:5-6
5 And now, O Father, glorify Thou Me with Thine Own self with the glory which I had with Thee before the world was.
6 I have manifested Thy name unto the men which Thou gavest Me out of the world: Thine they were, and Thou gavest them Me; and they have kept Thy word.
KJV


John 17:18-21
18 As Thou hast sent Me into the world, even so have I also sent them into the world.
19 And for their sakes I sanctify Myself, that they also might be sanctified through the truth.
20 Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on Me through their word;
21 That they all may be one; as Thou, Father, art in Me, and I in Thee, that they also may be one in Us: that the world may believe that Thou hast sent Me.
KJV

Lord Jesus prayed for 2 groups, the first group being His 'sent' ones, His Apostles. The 2nd group are those who come to believe on Him through the preaching of His Apostles. That is what He said above.

And we 'know' from Bible Scripture that His Apostles did not... choose Him, but that Jesus chose them. He told them to follow, and they left what they were doing and followed. And especially in Apostle Paul's case, he was a Pharisee hunting down Christians to bring back to Jerusalem for trial and execution. And Jesus struck him down on the road to Damascus while Saul was doing that very thing (Acts 9). That shows Saul was a 'chosen' elect, which Jesus even said so. Thus we must... admit this difference between those 'called' & 'chosen' vs. those 'called' only.

That does not mean everyone's fate is already decided.

It simply means Christ has a group of 'very elect' servants that cannot be turned nor deceived, because The Father owned them before, and then gave them to Jesus for this present world.

 

[ButterflyJones]

It always is, but you have quoted scripture out of context.

Exactly, so why did you pluck those scriptures out of the air to reinforce your own accepted doctrines. In context, they do not say what you have inferred.

Please show me what I have omitted.....

"The message God delivered" is apparently what each one thinks it is, if you take note of what is said on these boards....what did Jesus say it was?

I've not taken a verse out of context. Posting a single passage often times is meant to provide a specific point. Those who read scripture understand context within the whole of the chapter from which the passage was copied is a given.


As to where you omitted scripture, I'll leave it to you to find. I think it will help you in your further studies in Exegesis.

Hint, if we say Jesus didn't come to serve what he foreordained before the creation of the world, natural mind, we'll always be short of understanding his gospel.

 

[amigo de christo]

John Calvin...who is one of the Devil's best employees, infects the Body of Christ with Calvinism,...now and tomorrow, and for hundreds of years.

His deceived, some of them, many, are so infected by his diabolical theological deception.......that if you asked them on the Street.....>"are you a Christian"....they would reply..>"yes im a CALVINIST".

Amazing isnt it? That a cult leader, a DEVIL... can so infect the mind of a person, they they self identify with Jesus The Christ as :

= "im a Calvinist".

See that? That is his spiritual poison......and God knows its some ultimate spiritual DARKNESS, if it infects you.


Now,....... freewill, is God's own mind.
And as we are created in God's "image and likeness"...then we are of the same mind.

Listen, ...

Becoming a Christian... requires that the GOSPEL be preached, and HEARD, so that it can Be BELIEVED.
"all that BELIEVE in Jesus, shall be saved"
"as many as believe in me, i give unto them eternal life and they shall never perish"
"the work of God is that you BELIEVE in Jesus, whom God sent".
That is freewill., from beginning to end., as you would not be asked to believe..... if God forced you to do it, as John Calvin's heretics teach.

Now, think on this, reader...

Can God hold you accountable, for never believing in Jesus..... after you die....so that you would end up in Hell, ....if God Himself didn't allow you to BELIEVE,.????? ... Or as the heretic J. Calvin teaches his lie........"you are not one of the predestined elect".....who is chosen to go to heaven.
Do you See that incredible Cross Denying demonic teaching?
That is John Calvin's teaching that God chose some.....maybe you and your mother, to be born to go to hell, because both of you have no option to ever believe in Jesus and be SAVED, = because Calvin teaches that you have no free will.. and are chosen by God to end up in the lake of fire and BURN.

What a " DOCTRINE OF DEVIL's to teach such a lie against GOD Himself, and The Cross of Christ.

Hebrews 13:9

just a short friendly reminder to all . Follow neither calvin nor the RCC . Heavy deceptions are amongst them .

 

[Aunty Jane]

I've not taken a verse out of context. Posting a single passage often times is meant to provide a specific point. Those who read scripture understand context within the whole of the chapter from which the passage was copied is a given.


As to where you omitted scripture, I'll leave it to you to find. I think it will help you in your further studies in Exegesis.

Hint, if we say Jesus didn't come to serve what he foreordained before the creation of the world, natural mind, we'll always be short of understanding his gospel.

What you said on this thread about predeterminism infers that you support a predetermined life at birth. Do you? You haven't come out and said it plainly....but you have inferred it by the misapplication of scripture.

So, when you said....
"Man plans his way but God sets his steps".... you inferred that man has no say in what God determines.....and that is correct when it comes to his own actions......but not when it comes to man's choices. Man can "plan his steps" so as NOT to walk God's way....just like satan did...just like Eve did, and forced Adam to also make his choice....to obey his God or to obey his wife.

You also said....
"The lot (destiny) is cast into the lap, but its every decision is from the LORD." Again inferring that it not man but God who makes the final decision about everything we do in this life, like we have no say.....but that is not what the scripture means.....decisions made by God were determined by casting lots in Bible times.....this has nothing to do with man's decisions. This was determining God's decision.

There was only one "action" by God in the beginning....the creation of the material universe. After God had established the first humans and settled them into their new home and given them his instructions.....everything after that was God's RE-action to their decisions.

If they had no free will, then the TKGE was meaningless, and so was the penalty.

I've not taken a verse out of context. Posting a single passage often times is meant to provide a specific point. Those who read scripture understand context within the whole of the chapter from which the passage was copied is a given.

I beg to differ.....when someone posts a scripture out of context, you assume that they know the context....your context. In my experience people are too lazy to do their own research and are happy to be spoon fed their "beliefs" even from those who don't really know what the Bible says.

As to where you omitted scripture, I'll leave it to you to find. I think it will help you in your further studies in Exegesis.

LOL...nice dodge....
Hint...try backing up what you say.

Hint, if we say Jesus didn't come to serve what he foreordained before the creation of the world, natural mind, we'll always be short of understanding his gospel.

He never used that expression, and if you were a genuine Bible student, you would know that. He never said anything was "foreordained before the creation of the world"......you assume that he said that because it supports your view of predeterminism.

He said the "before founding of the world" (kosmos) which means the founding of the now defective human race....we did not need a savior to rescue us from Adam's sin until he committed it, of his own free will.
No one forced him to disobey his God.....he chose to, with no sin nature to excuse or explain his awful decision, and no expression of repentance was ever forthcoming.

God tells us our natural minds, the consciousness natural to humans, cannot understand the things of God because they are foolishness to them. Only Holy Spirits intercession changes that

Again this is not exactly what the scriptures say....
1 Corinthians 1:21, Paul says....
"For since, in the wisdom of God, the world did not know God through wisdom, it pleased God through the folly of what we preach to save those who believe." (ESV)

So worldly wisdom does not mean godly wisdom...it is the "folly of what we preach" that puts worldly wisdom in its place, (of no value) and "believers" choose the (seemingly) foolish things of God to show that Godly wisdom is the only kind worth having. The worldly wise have no need for a foolish looking God. Creation is just an accident of nature....

God will show them all soon enough....

 

[ButterflyJones]

What you said on this thread about predeterminism infers that you support a predetermined life at birth. Do you? You haven't come out and said it plainly....but you have inferred it by the misapplication of scripture.

So, when you said....
"Man plans his way but God sets his steps".... you inferred that man has no say in what God determines.....and that is correct when it comes to his own actions......but not when it comes to man's choices. Man can "plan his steps" so as NOT to walk God's way....just like satan did...just like Eve did, and forced Adam to also make his choice....to obey his God or to obey his wife.

You also said....
"The lot (destiny) is cast into the lap, but its every decision is from the LORD." Again inferring that it not man but God who makes the final decision about everything we do in this life, like we have no say.....but that is not what the scripture means.....decisions made by God were determined by casting lots in Bible times.....this has nothing to do with man's decisions. This was determining God's decision.

There was only one "action" by God in the beginning....the creation of the material universe. After God had established the first humans and settled them into their new home and given them his instructions.....everything after that was God's RE-action to their decisions.

If they had no free will, then the TKGE was meaningless, and so was the penalty.


I beg to differ.....when someone posts a scripture out of context, you assume that they know the context....your context. In my experience people are too lazy to do their own research and are happy to be spoon fed their "beliefs" even from those who don't really know what the Bible says.

LOL...nice dodge....
Hint...try backing up what you say.

He never used that expression, and if you were a genuine Bible student, you would know that. He never said anything was "foreordained before the creation of the world"......you assume that he said that because it supports your view of predeterminism.

He said the "before founding of the world" (kosmos) which means the founding of the now defective human race....we did not need a savior to rescue us from Adam's sin until he committed it, of his own free will.
No one forced him to disobey his God.....he chose to, with no sin nature to excuse or explain his awful decision, and no expression of repentance was ever forthcoming.

Again this is not exactly what the scriptures say....
1 Corinthians 1:21, Paul says....
"For since, in the wisdom of God, the world did not know God through wisdom, it pleased God through the folly of what we preach to save those who believe." (ESV)

So worldly wisdom does not mean godly wisdom...it is the "folly of what we preach" that puts worldly wisdom in its place, (of no value) and "believers" choose the (seemingly) foolish things of God to show that Godly wisdom is the only kind worth having. The worldly wise have no need for a foolish looking God. Creation is just an accident of nature....

God will show them all soon enough....

The speaker implies. The listener infers.

I hope that assists in future.

 

[Gottservant]

Free will is good if we choose wisely, but is our own worst enemy if we choose evil.

I wish everyone would get this!

 

[Aunty Jane]

The speaker implies. The listener infers.

I hope that assists in future.

What????.....whatever does that mean....is ambiguity your thing?
Your posts are of no assistance at all as you seem to have no idea what you are implying or inferring....

 

[ButterflyJones]

What????.....whatever does that mean....is ambiguity your thing?
Your posts are of no assistance at all as you seem to have no idea what you are implying or inferring....

Aww, I thought you could understand.

I'll try again.

In your earlier post that I quoted you repeatedly claimed I in my post inferred this or that.

That is incorrect knowledge and usage of the word, infer/inferred, and its application aka, definition.

When someone speaks the proper identity of that act is, "imply"
imply
ĭm-plī′
transitive verb
To express or state indirectly.
To make evident indirectly: synonym: suggest.
To involve by logical necessity; entail.

Whereas, the definition of infer that you wrongly applied to the remarks in my post is, infer
ĭn-fûr′
intransitive verb
To conclude from evidence or by reasoning.
To involve by logical necessity; entail.
To indicate indirectly; imply.


Ergo, my other earlier corrective post addressed to your attention so to bring your innocent error to correction. The speaker implies. The listener infers .

In short, you should have said in addressing my earlier aforementioned post that I implied this or that. Rather than repeatedly stating I inferred.

Again, I hope this protracted follow up correction assists you in future.
Thank you for asking for clarification so that you might better understand.