Co- Redemptrix

[Marymog]

The Catholic Church has never taught that Mary was the source of Jesus's divinity, so I don't know where you're getting that.
The Catholic Church has never taught that Mary created God.
The Catholic Church has never taught that Mary is the Mother of the Trinity.

Mary is the mother of Jesus, who unites to Himself TWO distinct and indivisible natures - Divine and Human.
Mary did NOT give birth to a nature - any more than yours or Stranger's mothers did. She gave birth to the PERSON that is Jesus.

Hi BOL,

Marymog never said that Mary was the source of Jesus's divinity, so I don't know where you're getting that. What I actually said....and I quote "she is NOT the source of His divinity".
Marymog never said that Mary created God so I don't know where you're getting that.
Marymog never said that Mary is the Mother of the Trinity so I don't know where you're getting that.
Marymog never said that Mary gave birth to a nature.

If you were to objectively read what I said it seems we are agreeing with each other :).

So I would suggest you, as my kids used to say, take a chill pill.

Mary

 

[BreadOfLife]

It doesn't mean sinless. No matter how much you want it to.

Stranger

It absolutely does.

You cannot be "perfected" in grace unless you are sinless.
This is the condition people in Heaven are in - perfected in God's grace, just like Mary.

 

[BreadOfLife]

Yes, but again, as I said, you are saying this involved mary being sinless. And unless you are saying Moses, Abraham, and Isaiah were without sin, then your comparison doens't work. Or, unless you now agree that mary was not sinless, your comparison does not work.

So, which is it?

Stranger

No - the comparison was simply to show you that God doesn't work in OUR time - because He is outside of time.
Jesus's Eternal sacrifice was applied to Mary before she was born.

Not that complicated, Stranger . . .

 

[BreadOfLife]

so tell me why is mary twice not in capital Mary like Moses, Abraham and Isaiah - twinc

Because this is typical of anti-Catholics.

 

[BreadOfLife]

No need to apologise fro your error. But even Mary needed Jesus to be saved, becasue like us she was a sinner to. If she had not sinned than she would be equal to Jesus, and she could have died in His place. But as I said, men defending idols even to death as they do.

Where have you been?? You're about 5 days late to this conversation.
I have stated over and over and over that Mary needed Jesus to be saved.

Why would you think any differently??

 

[aspen]

Sparky?

After reading this thread, i feel like a young’n again

‘Hey Sparky, pull up them britches and get off my lawn’

Haha

 

[BreadOfLife]

btw was Mary ever baptised or like Nicodemus did she also have to be a born again as a Christian - twinc

There is no record of Mary being baptized in Scripture or in any extrabiblical source that I know of.
I'm sure she was, being the obedient handmaiden of the Lord.

 

[mjrhealth]

Where have you been?? You're about 5 days late to this conversation.
I have stated over and over and over that Mary needed Jesus to be saved.

Why would you think any differently??

Well than bol she could not of being sinless ehhhhhhh.

 

[Stranger]

It absolutely does.

You cannot be "perfected" in grace unless you are sinless.
This is the condition people in Heaven are in - perfected in God's grace, just like Mary.

Mary was not perfected in grace. Mary was given grace, highly favoured before God to be the bearer of the God/Man Jesus.

No sinlessness in Mary given grace.

Stranger

 

[Stranger]

No - the comparison was simply to show you that God doesn't work in OUR time - because He is outside of time.
Jesus's Eternal sacrifice was applied to Mary before she was born.

Not that complicated, Stranger . . .

Just because God is outside of time doesn't mean anything to prove Mary was saved before she fell. There is nothing in Scripture to even suggest such a fairytale.

You're right, it is not complicated at all. It shows the degree the Romanist will go to have a sinless mary.

Stranger

 

[bbyrd009]

Like you said, "you" believe such. Thus it is those such as yourself who define me as being an "outsider". Doesn't really matter what I claim, for you have already decided.

and there we have the whole point of trinity doctrine, i guess

 

[BreadOfLife]

Mary was not perfected in grace. Mary was given grace, highly favoured before God to be the bearer of the God/Man Jesus.

No sinlessness in Mary given grace.

Stranger

And again - denial ain't just a river in Egypt . . .

 

[BreadOfLife]

Just because God is outside of time doesn't mean anything to prove Mary was saved before she fell. There is nothing in Scripture to even suggest such a fairytale.

You're right, it is not complicated at all. It shows the degree the Romanist will go to have a sinless mary.

Stranger

Sure there is:
"Kecharitomene".

Linguist, YOU ain't . . .

 

[BreadOfLife]

Well than bol she could not of being sinless ehhhhhhh.

Why is that?
Are you saying that Jesus couldn't save her??

That's heresy.

 

[BreadOfLife]

Hi BOL,

Marymog never said that Mary was the source of Jesus's divinity, so I don't know where you're getting that. What I actually said....and I quote "she is NOT the source of His divinity".
Marymog never said that Mary created God so I don't know where you're getting that.
Marymog never said that Mary is the Mother of the Trinity so I don't know where you're getting that.
Marymog never said that Mary gave birth to a nature.

If you were to objectively read what I said it seems we are agreeing with each other :).

So I would suggest you, as my kids used to say, take a chill pill.

Mary

Hi Mary -
What I wrote was mainly for Stranger's benefit. However, there was one thing that you said which needed correcting.
You said:
"When Mary gave birth to him she gave birth to the man portion of God/man. She could not have given birth to the God part of Jesus."

This is the heresy of Nestorianism, which sought to separate the 2 natures of Christ (Divine & Human).
Mary gave birth to Jesus, who is BOTH God and man. At the Council of Ephesus in 431 which was convened in part to defeat the Nestorian heresy, it was declared that Jesus's 2 natures were indivisible. This is the doctrine of the Hypostaci Union.

To further support this doctrine, Mary was declared "Theotokos" (God-bearer).
She didn't create Jesus, who is God - she gave birth to Him, who is God.

 

[Marymog]

Hi Mary -
What I wrote was mainly for Stranger's benefit. However, there was one thing that you said which needed correcting.
You said:
"When Mary gave birth to him she gave birth to the man portion of God/man. She could not have given birth to the God part of Jesus."

This is the heresy of Nestorianism, which sought to separate the 2 natures of Christ (Divine & Human).
Mary gave birth to Jesus, who is BOTH God and man. At the Council of Ephesus in 431 which was convened in part to defeat the Nestorian heresy, it was declared that Jesus's 2 natures were indivisible. This is the doctrine of the Hypostaci Union.

To further support this doctrine, Mary was declared "Theotokos" (God-bearer).
She didn't create Jesus, who is God - she gave birth to Him, who is God.

Hi BOL,

I agree that she gave birth to BOTH.

The quote from me you provided (in red and bold) was my summary of what I thought Stranger was saying.

We are agreeing with each other but using different words to come to the same conclusion. My choice of words are confusing so I digress....:cool:

IHS...Mary

 

[BreadOfLife]

Hi BOL,

I agree that she gave birth to BOTH.

The quote from me you provided (in red and bold) was my summary of what I thought Stranger was saying.

We are agreeing with each other but using different words to come to the same conclusion. My choice of words are confusing so I digress....:cool:

IHS...Mary

I do understand what you were trying to say but, with all due respect - it's heresy.
Mary gave birth to the WHOLE Jesus - Humanity and Divinity. these 2 natures are indivisible.

 

[mjrhealth]

Why is that?
Are you saying that Jesus couldn't save her??

That's heresy.

Twisting things again. If she had not sinned, as I Said, she would not need Him, she would of being perfect and blameless like Him, still trying to justify your idols, never end with you.

 

[Marymog]

I do understand what you were trying to say but, with all due respect - it's heresy.
Mary gave birth to the WHOLE Jesus - Humanity and Divinity. these 2 natures are indivisible.

Hi BOL,

Once again take a chill pill and read what I wrote. I wasn't TRYING to say anything.....I flat out SAID IT: "I agree that she gave birth to BOTH."

Have you ever considered Yoga classes ;)

IHS...Mary

 

[Stranger]

I do understand what you were trying to say but, with all due respect - it's heresy.
Mary gave birth to the WHOLE Jesus - Humanity and Divinity. these 2 natures are indivisible.

Exactly, Mary gave birth to the God/Man. Not God.

Stranger