Come to Worship the Lord in Jerusalem

[Blueberry]

ha well some dialectic must be employed in order to reason--we read Scripture from a Hegelian pov by default--and i mean to suggest using the one the authors used at the time, with the understanding that the Hegelian was well known to them by 0ad, Christ even came, strangely enough, at the rise of Hegelian (Greek) reasoning; no one spoke Hebrew any more in Israel, etc

That's what I thought you meant. I believe the authors were inspired by the Holy Spirit. No philosophical debating stuff involved in that. Who were the authors debating or reasoning with? Who am I debating with when I read the Father's words to me via the inspired authors? It would be didactic if anything, wouldn't it? And yet that still smacks of human wisdom and not Inspiration. Not meaning to derail this thread or even really pursue any further, but I just don't see how such comes into this process at all? Paul may have reasoned with philosophers when evangelizing them, "become all things to all people", such as on Mars Hill, but for his inspired writings I do not think he was trying persuade anyone with reason. Rather simply being an available instrument for God to instruct directly and authoritatively through. I just don't see where any of this comes into play, but am appreciative of your reply. Seems like a perfect example to not lean on your (or my) own understanding. The scriptures must be illuminated (the Truth established) by the Holy Spirit. But I think that I now understand a lot more where you are coming from. Even when God says "Come let us reason together" there really wasn't going to be much of a debate. I do understand your approach.

 

[bbyrd009]

That's what I thought you meant. I believe the authors were inspired by the Holy Spirit. No philosophical debating stuff involved in that. Who were the authors debating or reasoning with? Who am I debating with when I read the Father's words to me via the inspired authors?

ok, there is no debating involved in reasoning from a particular dialectic; the debating comes afterward? Iow this is about how one comprehends or hears what they are reading, in order to arrive at an opinion to debate from, for instance

these two are "debating" from the Hegelian Dialectic, wherein only one of them can be correct; which one is correct?
A Hegelian is likely to suggest that they both are, when really neither one is?

now a prob will be that if one is a determinist--like one of those three budding lawyers up there--then this will...not be a pleasant way to read Scripture, to one who is used to being able to find facts and Absolute Truth whenever they read, but then at least they will not have to dodge pertinent Qs or scribe up the Book to make their pov work every time they are challenged on one of their Absolute Truths (and thus revealed)

 

[bbyrd009]

The Human Brain Is a Time Traveler
"Left to its own devices, the human brain resorts to one of its most emblematic tricks, maybe one that helped make us human in the first place..."

this is tangential but also has some bearing, note that the article postulates this ("time-travelling") ability as a good thing,
but you are not required to. Can be awesome, can be the death of one iow

 

[Keraz]

When will all this be?

Exact dates? I don't know, only God knows, but we can ascertain the season for the end times.

The season is now, as we can see from the increasing violence and tension in the Middle East.
The next prophesied event will be the Sixth Seal, Revelation 6:12-17, which will change the world, setting the stage for

what must happen before Jesus Returns. As we are told in Psalms 83, Micah 4:11-12 and other prophesies, the terrible Day of the Lord's wrath will be triggered by an attack on Israel by a coalition of Islamic nations and peoples. They will be wiped out and of the Jews; only a remnant will survive. Isaiah 29:4, Romans 9:27
That Day will also be the day of Redemption and restoration of God's people, now every faithful Christian person. We must stand firm in our faith and Call upon His Name, for His protection. Joel 2:32, Acts 2:21
​

 

[bbyrd009]

A Hegelian is likely to suggest that they both are, when really neither one is?

the reason being that logically it can only be raining or sprinkling; and believe it or not there is a recognized gauge for that, spitting, sprinkling, raining, storming, like that, but we can also see what this has done to our def of "debate," there in the vid, or here in forums, where we usually get two ppl pontificating at each other in turn, pretending to have a conversation

 

[bbyrd009]

The season is now, as we can see from the increasing violence and tension in the Middle East.

with your two eyes, yes, but what you apparently refuse to see is that the Apostles were doing the same thing entering Jerusalem, and every generation since then has also done the same thing, we even see the Jerusalem believers there in Acts later who have given everything away for the same supposed purpose--even though the purpose is concealed--and later Paul is having to collect alms for them, bc they did not understand either lol

 

[Keraz]

with your two eyes, yes, but what you apparently refuse to see is that the Apostles were doing the same thing entering Jerusalem, and every generation since then has also done the same thing, we even see the Jerusalem believers there in Acts later who have given everything away for the same supposed purpose--even though the purpose is concealed--and later Paul is having to collect alms for them, bc they did not understand either lol

But it WILL happen as prophesied, or where are we?
Has God just played a game with us, like 'Game of Thrones', where He sets up situations and then laughs at the outcome?
No; That I do not believe, we do have a task and a destiny and from many indications, it isn't too far away now.

BTW, there is a prophecy where God does laugh; Psalms 37:13 Fortunately it isn't at those who believe in Him!

 

[bbyrd009]

But it WILL happen as prophesied, or where are we?
Has God just played a game with us, like 'Game of Thrones', where He sets up situations and then laughs at the outcome?
No; That I do not believe, we do have a task and a destiny and from many indications, it isn't too far away now.

BTW, there is a prophecy where God does laugh; Psalms 37:13 Fortunately it isn't at those who believe in Him!

fortunately those who have faith do not prognosticate as if they know, and as i see we are not really having a convo here i will disregard the rest of your Qs, being as how my reply will apparently not be read/addressed anyway. But imo the GoT ref is prolly closer to truth, taking into account Twice the Sons of Hell that most "saved" ppl apparently rep, speaking generally?

 

[Blueberry]

the reason being that logically it can only be raining or sprinkling; and believe it or not there is a recognized gauge for that, spitting, sprinkling, raining, storming, like that, but we can also see what this has done to our def of "debate," there in the vid, or here in forums, where we usually get two ppl pontificating at each other in turn, pretending to have a conversation

Well, I certainly appreciate you breaking this down for me. It is a lot to fully absorb. I do most certainly get the part about the debating once we leave our solo study and begin to, um, 'discuss' our findings and conclusions and opinions in forums and elsewhere.

In phenomenon of 100% natural origin and manifestation, such as precipitation, with established definitions, then as a technology guy the only answer is to make the accurate measurement and accept the results. However arbitrary those distinctions may have been derived initially. They are now the accepted conventions and nomenclature. Doctrine?

(Or just go ahead and let her win. It prevents getting your heart poked. This is true wisdom! )

But in matters spiritual then mere logic is inadequate. We need an Insight that all the mental wrangling will never fully produce. I guess I am debating that presently? I believe that there are some absolute truths to be derived from the bible. There is more at work here than just our brains. Will read that newspaper article to, but it already sounds like it comes from an unilluminated (unregenerate) perspective and therefore has to be incomplete at best. Because while the brain is a natural phenomenon, the 'mind' is not.

However, the video was totally amusing. First the two viewpoints. Then the raising of voices. Then the raising of arms. The fingers in the face. Then the actual physical attack. My... that escalated quickly! Classic. And oh so familiar.

Another observation on only one viewing is that the children were not seeing themselves as the ultimate authority, but what their mothers told them. Making the assumption that their mothers could not be wrong nor would intentionally mislead them.

 

[Blueberry]

Exact dates? I don't know, only God knows, but we can ascertain the season for the end times.

The season is now, as we can see from the increasing violence and tension in the Middle East.
The next prophesied event will be the Sixth Seal, Revelation 6:12-17, which will change the world, setting the stage for

what must happen before Jesus Returns. As we are told in Psalms 83, Micah 4:11-12 and other prophesies, the terrible Day of the Lord's wrath will be triggered by an attack on Israel by a coalition of Islamic nations and peoples. They will be wiped out and of the Jews; only a remnant will survive. Isaiah 29:4, Romans 9:27
That Day will also be the day of Redemption and restoration of God's people, now every faithful Christian person. We must stand firm in our faith and Call upon His Name, for His protection. Joel 2:32, Acts 2:21
​

I believe that am very closely aligned with your general thinking. About the time and the season. Many of the prophecies can be seen in some level of fulfillment throughout the centuries subsequent to their uttering. But it is the re-establishment of the nation of Israel and the many converging signs that are compelling for me. I've grasped how unpopular this thinking is around here.

I don't think that I am a Zionist, but its been so long since I looked at that definition that I forget exactly what it is? If it basically means God is not done with his unconditional everlasting covenant with Abraham's and his offspring, then I guess that I am so? I seem to differ, perhaps radically, for how this will all play out from what I understand that you are saying. I do not derive this thinking from the MSM as I think that their views are secular and simply look at natural situations with natural minds. They can be quite negative as well. Whereas I see biblical fulfillment through some of the things that they report. Ignoring completely their commentary and prognostications.

For the Believer these ominous dark clouds are actually encouraging that our redemption draws near. So sad it has to go down this way though.

 

[bbyrd009]

But it WILL happen as prophesied, or where are we?

sorry, i've just got my fill of "nevermind that what about this" Keraz.
Your Q here is very indicative imo; what is this "it" that WILL happen as prophesied, exactly? Will Jesus appear to everyone simultaneously in a blazing display of Godly Might that you will be able to witness with your Two Eyes, before you literally die, Keraz? Blessed are those who have not seen, and yet believe.

Imo "it" will happen exactly as prophesied, and no one will be able to see it until after it has happened imo mostly bc their definitions will not be right, and i'm not saying i know the right ones either. But mostly i would examine this obsession with tomorrow wadr, your fears about tomorrow, if you will. And also when God comes back as Charles Bronson, you have...some enemies in mind right, you have a list? Examining the list will tell you most of what you need to know, believe it or not.

 

[bbyrd009]

However arbitrary those distinctions may have been derived initially. They are now the accepted conventions and nomenclature. Doctrine?

exactly, i guess

(Or just go ahead and let her win. It prevents getting your heart poked. This is true wisdom! )

yup!

But in matters spiritual then mere logic is inadequate. We need an Insight that all the mental wrangling will never fully produce. I guess I am debating that presently?

maybe, ya. i'm more of the opinion that we could use a lot less insight maybe, or at least that these insights should be ones that...are coming from the mouths of babes

I believe that there are some absolute truths to be derived from the bible.

ha well everyone does, and no one has stated one yet, at least under that strict definition, so now 'spiritual truths' or even 'Bible truths' if you can think of one, the "absolute" part being the part that matters there, and best of luck. Seems like you could, huh?

Will read that newspaper article to, but it already sounds like it comes from an unilluminated (unregenerate) perspective and therefore has to be incomplete at best.

incomplete they are no doubt comfy with admitting up front i guess, and personally absent a profit motive at least i would consider a scientist much more regenerate than most preachers, and in that case imo they are literally being subversive, telling me how i come to my whacked decisions and how i am being manipulated so easily by the state et al?

i mean i would def get more suspicious as a profit motive gets more established in Neuroscience, but right now it is so...we are so in the dark @ the brain/mind right now imo that stage will come later, but i would look for that definitely--"definitely" lol--anyway, there will be signs, right, when that has happened, there will be...well, lots of signs, more stratification, several requirements, and surely even some permits or certificates involved lol

 

[Willie T]

The great story, to happen in the very near future:
The Lord will use a natural event to punish the world for its sins. On that great Day, a CME sunstrike will burn up the attackers of Israel and wipe out those who hate His people. Malachi 4:1, Psalms 83, Micah 4:11-12
On that terrible Day of His flaming retribution, Isaiah 30:26-30, the Lord will look to His people, all who call upon His Name and protect them from the scorching fire that will envelope the earth, Isaiah 13:9-13, Zephaniah 3:8 then He will gather all faithful Christians, be they Jacob’s descendants or grafted in, into the holy Land. Isaiah 66:18b-21, Isaiah 10:17-23, Romans 9:24-27
There, they will at last, be as God intended: a holy people, a light to the nations and sending out 144,000 missionaries to proclaim the coming Kingdom of Jesus. Revelation 14:1-7

Don't you even think of what you are trying to sell?
You just get through telling people God is going to wipe out everything and everyone except those Believers he is protecting…. then you turn right around and say that He is going to send out 144,000 people to preach to people that were burned up, and no longer even exist.
I know you want to sound all Spiritual and Thunderous, but at least think about the foolishness you are creating by stringing unrelated verses together to make a scary-sounding, supposedly "Holy" fairy tale.
No wonder so many people think Christians are nuts.

 

[bbyrd009]

Don't you even think of what you are trying to sell?
You just get through telling people God is going to wipe out everything and everyone except those Believers he is protecting…. then you turn right around and say that He is going to send out 144,000 people to preach to people that were burned up, and no longer even exist.
I know you want to sound all Spiritual and Thunderous, but at least think about the foolishness you are creating by stringing unrelated verses together to make a scary-sounding, supposedly "Holy" fairy tale.
No wonder so many people think Christians are nuts.

and it is not as if we had no Support either, surely we could Quote Scripture the rest of the day, that would be steadfastly ignored or justified away i guess, bc i get the distinct impression that God better manifest a kingdom by observation in "the very near future" or else here? lol

can't we even observe recent history for a clue as to what happens to these?

 

[Keraz]

Don't you even think of what you are trying to sell?
You just get through telling people God is going to wipe out everything and everyone except those Believers he is protecting…. then you turn right around and say that He is going to send out 144,000 people to preach to people that were burned up, and no longer even exist.
I know you want to sound all Spiritual and Thunderous, but at least think about the foolishness you are creating by stringing unrelated verses together to make a scary-sounding, supposedly "Holy" fairy tale.
No wonder so many people think Christians are nuts.

Not knowing or understanding what the prophets actually tell us, leads to a very wrong belief of what God has planned for His Creation.
The Lord's Day of wrath by fire from the sun, will have an very dramatic effect on the earth. Many will die, initially and from problems later. Isaiah 66:15-17 But the survivors will rally and form a One World Govt, of 10 regions. Revelation 17:12
After that Day, a literal day, the Lord will motivate His faithful people; those who maintained their trust in His protection, to migrate to the holy Land and form their own nation. Isaiah 62:1-5, Isaiah 66:18b-21, Ezekiel 34:1-16, Isaiah 35:1-10

That is our destiny and great privilege, to be the people God never yet had in His Land; His witnesses, Isaiah 43:10, John 15:27 and HIs Light to the nations, Isaiah 49:8, Matthew 5:14-16
Psalms 107 tells the story of some in that migration. Also Isaiah 60:8-9

 

[Keraz]

and it is not as if we had no Support either, surely we could Quote Scripture the rest of the day, that would be steadfastly ignored or justified away i guess, bc i get the distinct impression that God better manifest a kingdom by observation in "the very near future" or else here? lol

can't we even observe recent history for a clue as to what happens to these?

Just as 2 Peter 3:1-7 says; We have scoffers aplenty!
Read and believe what the Bible prophets wrote, or deny them, thereby making about a quarter of the Bible valueless. May as well biff out the rest while you're at it. Then; eat drink and be merry, for tomorrow you die. Isaiah 22:14

 

[bbyrd009]

Just as 2 Peter 3:1-7 says; We have scoffers aplenty!
Read and believe what the Bible prophets wrote, or deny them, thereby making about a quarter of the Bible valueless. May as well biff out the rest while you're at it. Then; eat drink and be merry, for tomorrow you die. Isaiah 22:14

ah yes, the Bible as a hammer lol
no offense but if you can't address my post i won't address yours, ok, and i see no point anyway as no one is scoffing
you are just changing the subject to suit your sermon i guess

keep Standing There and pretending you know what you are teaching bro, ok with me
don't teachers answer students' questions though?

 

[bbyrd009]

sorry, i've just got my fill of "nevermind that what about this" Keraz.
Your Q here is very indicative imo; what is this "it" that WILL happen as prophesied, exactly? Will Jesus appear to everyone simultaneously in a blazing display of Godly Might that you will be able to witness with your Two Eyes, before you literally die, Keraz? Blessed are those who have not seen, and yet believe.

Imo "it" will happen exactly as prophesied, and no one will be able to see it until after it has happened imo mostly bc their definitions will not be right, and i'm not saying i know the right ones either. But mostly i would examine this obsession with tomorrow wadr, your fears about tomorrow, if you will. And also when God comes back as Charles Bronson, you have...some enemies in mind right, you have a list? Examining the list will tell you most of what you need to know, believe it or not.

^

 

[Blueberry]

exactly, i guess
ha well everyone does, and no one has stated one yet, at least under that strict definition, so now 'spiritual truths' or even 'Bible truths' if you can think of one, the "absolute" part being the part that matters there, and best of luck. Seems like you could, huh?

I knew you would balk at the "absolute" part.

mean i would def get more suspicious as a profit motive gets more established in Neuroscience, but right now it is so...we are so in the dark @ the brain/mind right now imo that stage will come later, but i would look for that definitely--"definitely" lol--anyway, there will be signs, right, when that has happened, there will be...well, lots of signs, more stratification, several requirements, and surely even some permits or certificates involved lol

Exactly. So how can we trust truly our finite limited brains without Insight from Above? Or, rather, within via the Holy Spirit.

Like I needed God to save me, I need Him to teach me.

You wouldn't be going all 'deterministic' on me, now would you? hehe

Completely agree about the profit motive aspect. Always suspect. Always.

Happy Thanksgiving, Bro.

 

[bbyrd009]

I knew you would balk at the "absolute" part.

balk? i said that the Absolute part is the part that matters to conform with our desires to find proof and state facts?
Proof and facts ostensibly comport with truth and absolutes, don't they?
Otherwise we are compelled to add "imo" or "as near as i can determine" or even "maybe, maybe not."
So maybe you mean "insist upon" or something, or i am not getting you yet, sorry