Creation Science Seminar

[Blue Dragonfly's]

Many get a 6000 year old earth from the passage that says a thousand years is like into a day to God, and a day like into a thousand years.
Six days creation=6 thousand years.

The fossil record alone is in conflict with that notion.

I enjoy Hovind and appreciate him, -that doesn't mean he hits all the right notes.

I get stuck on the idea that the idea that 'the Bible' seems to indicate an earth that is only about 6000 years old. I don't think it does. Maybe you are referring to this present age? --and dismissing the possibility of there having been different cycles or seasons of civilizations before our present story (history) as it has related to us by Moses. Moses tells the story as he knows it. As it was taught to him and he tells it to us in Genesis not as a chronological, play by play unfolding, but as a story. As a song. As imagery and prose. It's only literalists that make no room for this.

 

[RLT63]

Many get a 6000 year old earth from the passage that says a thousand years is like into a day to God, and a day like into a thousand years.
Six days creation=6 thousand years.

The fossil record alone is in conflict with that notion.

The 6,000 years comes from James Ussher. He traced all the genealogies in the Bible and other historical records and came up with the date 4004 BC for the creation. James Ussher - Wikipedia

 

[Blue Dragonfly's]

The 6,000 years comes from James Ussher. He traced all the genealogies in the Bible and other historical records and came up with the date 4004 BC for the creation. James Ussher - Wikipedia

Thank you for the reference.

 

[RLT63]

Thank you for the reference.

I don't believe he is correct. I don't know how old the earth is. Scientists say 4.5 billion years old. I don't believe that either.

 

[Mr E]

I don't believe he is correct. I don't know how old the earth is. Scientists say 4.5 billion years old. I don't believe that either.

When they start tossing around numbers that large, you know they have no idea. I wish they would just admit that.

 

[RLT63]

When thy start tossing around numbers that large, you know they have no idea. I wish they would just admit that.

They get that from testing meteorites. They say the earth is made of the same substance. I just have a hard time believing you can accurately date something that old.

 

[Mr E]

They get that from testing meteorites. They say the earth is made of the same substance. I just have a hard time believing you can accurately date something that old.

They cannot, because it’s an immeasurable span. They have to begin with an assumption that is predicated on a linear rate of decay. When assumptions are made, conclusions can’t be.

 

[ScottA]

I get stuck on the idea that 'the Bible' seems to indicate an earth that is only about 6000 years old.

Many get a 6000 year old earth from the passage that says a thousand years is like into a day to God, and a day like into a thousand years.
Six days creation=6 thousand years.

The fossil record alone is in conflict with that notion.

People who believe the word of God, believe that He manifest angels appearing as grown men and not infants. Why is it so hard to believe that He did the same with the universe? He's God.

 

[Blue Dragonfly's]

People who believe the word of God, believe that He manifest angels appearing as grown men and not infants. Why is it so hard to believe that He did the same with the universe? He's God.

Yes, he is.

Friends, some, not many, will say the billions of year old scientific dating is a trick of Satan. To test our faith.

I say , why would God give his adversary,that can do nothing without his permission, the authority to corrupt his creation and befuddle his people with a lie?

 

[Blue Dragonfly's]

I don't believe he is correct. I don't know how old the earth is. Scientists say 4.5 billion years old. I don't believe that either.

I'm not a YEC. I do however appreciate a reference to an author I'm not familiar with so I might broaden my library.

 

[ScottA]

Yes, he is.

Friends, some, not many, will say the billions of year old scientific dating is a trick of Satan. To test our faith.

I say , why would God give his adversary,that can do nothing without his permission, the authority to corrupt his creation and befuddle his people with a lie?

This encompasses much more, but does include it as well:

Do you not remember that when I was still with you I told you these things? 6 And now you know what is restraining, that he may be revealed in his own time. 7 For the mystery of lawlessness is already at work; only He who now restrains will do so until He is taken out of the way. 8 And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord will consume with the breath of His mouth and destroy with the brightness of His coming. 9 The coming of the lawless one is according to the working of Satan, with all power, signs, and lying wonders, 10 and with all unrighteous deception among those who perish, because they did not receive the love of the truth, that they might be saved. 11 And for this reason God will send them strong delusion, that they should believe the lie, 12 that they all may be condemned who did not believe the truth but had pleasure in unrighteousness. 2 Thessalonians 2:6-12
​

Which is not to say, all who believed the lie, but those who were and are pleased with it.

 

[Prim]

To the ancients, time was not linear, it was circular. And they marked time by observation, not calculation. They had no concept of a spinning earth, or one that traveled across the universe. It was fixed, immovable and just as scripture tells us, there were two great lights above to illuminate and it was those that moved about around the fixed plane of the earth. Time, was marked by hours of daylight (day) and hours of darkness (night). Weeks were counted as the time required for seven days and seven nights, and months were counted not by counting days, but by counting new moons because by observation they knew that these cycles-- day/night, weeks, months and years-- repeat. The circle of the sun was marked by months and 360 degrees of progression measured a full year, just as we divide a circle today in everything but the calendar.

A day was divided into hours -as 12 hours of day, and 12 hours of night, but there was no linear counting. The 12 hours of daylight in the winter months took much less "time" to pass than the 12 hours of daylight in June. Does that make sense? They still considered the time-- as observed on a sundial or the progression of a shadow to be 12 hours, but it moved more quickly in winter (while night hours moved slowly) --still counting both night and day as 12 respectively.

Jesus answered, “Are there not twelve hours in the day? If anyone walks in the day, he does not stumble, because he sees the light of this world.

They observed the times and the seasons, watching for each new moon-- just as they will do most carefully tonight in just a few hours in Jerusalem-- to mark what God calls His appointed times. They will blow the shofar-- the rams horn to begin the Feast of Trumpets - to announce the head of the new year-- a new cycle of time, this one a Jubilee.

Sunrise and sunset times in Jerusalem

Mr E you say ( To the ancients time was not linear, it was circular. And they marked time by observation and not calculation. ) Mr E me does think they used both. As to calculation they certainly had linear counting methods as shown through many clay tablets and Papyrus. We find accounting, commerce, currency, capital and private transactions all through their histories. They calculated extremely well even having calculation tools such as Abacus which enabled them to subtract use multiplications and divisions. we only have to look upon their many architecture structures of magnificence that do look down upon us from millenniums past unto this very today. Their precision of measurements be as precise as ours if not better in some regards. We have only to evaluate the great pyramid of Giza the tallest structure until the coming of the Empire State Building which only succeeded the Great pyramid in the 20th century. So their linear calculations would certainly have been on par when it came to evaluating the heavenly abode. Though you are correct that observation certainly played a big part in how the ancients viewed their world and the universe around them right up to this very day. Observation is as important today as it was back than. But were the ancient ones so wrong in their understanding in evaluating their world as a geocentric one ? What be the final authority when worlds do collide. Is it the ever changing world of science with its many anti biblical stances that continue to grace the hallways of the scientific world at a alarming rate. And who do seem very much hell bent on denying a very special creation and replacing the God entirely out of the picture, be that with some form of bacterial life that hitched a ride upon a meteorite from somewhere in far deepest space from so long ago. All heliocentricity ever seemed to do was replace a very special creation from the centre piece of Gods creation. Which now has been sent to the vast array of furniture and endless boxes coated over with cobwebs of time to the backwoods of some forgotten storage depo. Mr E yes all those things be true the daily week the monthly calendar and yearly cycle of the sun. But all days still do adhere to a 24 duration at least in our world anyway. Mr E It be the time of blowing the horn in Jerusalem. The feast of trumpets a new cycle of time and of life. May the full fruition of the head go well with their start to a new year.

 

[Mr E]

People who believe the word of God, believe that He manifest angels appearing as grown men and not infants. Why is it so hard to believe that He did the same with the universe? He's God.

Because it’s not scriptural. Creation is described as a process that occurred over time, bit by bit and day by “day.” And it says that it was elohim that created the earth. I know that’s not what our English Bibles say, but the Hebrew makes a careful distinction.

 

[Robert Gwin]

I disagree.
Premise...Earth IS, DRY LAND.
* Wet Land certainly may have existed longer than 6,000 years, (void of form, light, life).

Scientists conducting experiments on DRY LAND, with man-made calculating instruments, give me no WOW moment, to a consider a conclusion, DRY LAND existed millions of years BEFORE Adam was Formed out of the Earth’s Dry Land.

Glory to God,
Taken

Who knows for sure sir? No one!

 

[Mr E]

Mr E you say ( To the ancients time was not linear, it was circular. And they marked time by observation and not calculation. ) Mr E me does think they used both. As to calculation they certainly had linear counting methods as shown through many clay tablets and Papyrus. We find accounting, commerce, currency, capital and private transactions all through their histories. They calculated extremely well even having calculation tools such as Abacus which enabled them to subtract use multiplications and divisions. we only have to look upon their many architecture structures of magnificence that do look down upon us from millenniums past unto this very today. Their precision of measurements be as precise as ours if not better in some regards. We have only to evaluate the great pyramid of Giza the tallest structure until the coming of the Empire State Building which only succeeded the Great pyramid in the 20th century. So their linear calculations would certainly have been on par when it came to evaluating the heavenly abode. Though you are correct that observation certainly played a big part in how the ancients viewed their world and the universe around them right up to this very day. Observation is as important today as it was back than. But were the ancient ones so wrong in their understanding in evaluating their world as a geocentric one ? What be the final authority when worlds do collide. Is it the ever changing world of science with its many anti biblical stances that continue to grace the hallways of the scientific world at a alarming rate. And who do seem very much hell bent on denying a very special creation and replacing the God entirely out of the picture, be that with some form of bacterial life that hitched a ride upon a meteorite from somewhere in far deepest space from so long ago. All heliocentricity ever seemed to do was replace a very special creation from the centre piece of Gods creation. Which now has been sent to the vast array of furniture and endless boxes coated over with cobwebs of time to the backwoods of some forgotten storage depo. Mr E yes all those things be true the daily week the monthly calendar and yearly cycle of the sun. But all days still do adhere to a 24 duration at least in our world anyway. Mr E It be the time of blowing the horn in Jerusalem. The feast of trumpets a new cycle of time and of life. May the full fruition of the head go well with their start to a new year.

Nicely put Primm.

 

[Mr E]

But all days still do adhere to a 24 duration at least in our world anyway. Mr E It be the time of blowing the horn in Jerusalem. The feast of trumpets a new cycle of time and of life. May the full fruition of the head go well with their start to a new year.

I want to honor your observation. Why a 24 hour duration? Why not 10 for instance?

It's because everything below on this earthly plane is a reflection of what you call 'that heavenly abode' above. And in that place there's a circle of 24...

Around the throne were twenty-four thrones; and upon the thrones I saw twenty-four elders sitting, clothed in white garments, and golden crowns on their heads.

At God's appointed times, they cast their crowns and fall before him-- and a new year of our Lord begins.

 

[Prim]

Nicely put Primm.

Mr E thank you . My original post timed out. It was some taxing to rewrite again. One will always remember to press the stay logged in button. . I did enjoy your video on Gobeklitpe I found the other topics of discussion most interesting especially the controversy of the cave paintings discovered France. Seems much was restricted from the public from the early examinations. I will have to look into that more. Sleep time one agin. Good nite

 

[Prim]

I want to honor your observation. Why a 24 hour duration? Why not 10 for instance?

It's because everything below on this earthly plane is a reflection of what you call 'that heavenly abode' above. And in that place there's a circle of 24...

Around the throne were twenty-four thrones; and upon the thrones I saw twenty-four elders sitting, clothed in white garments, and golden crowns on their heads.

At God's appointed times, they cast their crowns and fall before him-- and a new year of our Lord begins.

Mr E I not really know I’m sure the God could have chosen from a number of creation models that he had on his mind. Perhaps he realised that we like our sleep when dividing night from day : ) , As to numerology. Or from numbers to letters. They do say the power of 0 to 9 doth have the power to create and destroy entire worlds. But that be a much deeper and darker path to venture, from within another realm. Some doors are best left permanently locked. Just think upon Pandora’s box. Good nite

 

[RLT63]

Because it’s not scriptural. Creation is described as a process that occurred over time, bit by bit and day by “day.” And it says that it was elohim that created the earth. I know that’s not what our English Bibles say, but the Hebrew makes a careful distinction.

God couldn't have created with embedded age? He created Adam a fully grown man. When Jesus turned water into wine he did it instantly. It takes time to plant a vineyard. harvest grapes, press them, and age the wine. If you tested that wine you would probably find it was aged.

 

[Mr E]

Mr E thank you . My original post timed out. It was some taxing to rewrite again. One will always remember to press the stay logged in button. . I did enjoy your video on Gobeklitpe I found the other topics of discussion most interesting especially the controversy of the cave paintings discovered France. Seems much was restricted from the public from the early examinations. I will have to look into that more. Sleep time one agin. Good nite

Glad you enjoyed them. It's interesting to examine some of these anomalies just for the sake of pondering possibilities. There are some things for which the standard models just don't fit. Chat again soon.