all the genetic problems did not exist back then. Also, the same problem would exist in Evolution. how to answer that?
Critical thinking and education is linked to loss of faith
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Noah’s Flood: Worldwide or Local? – Genesis Apologetics
genesisapologetics.com
Global Evidences of the Genesis Flood
The earth is scarred with evidence of the worldwide flood in Genesis.
answersingenesis.org
Evidence for a Flood
Sediment layers suggest that 7,500 years ago Mediterranean water roared into the Black Sea
Noah’s Ark: a saga of science denial - Evolution: Education and Outreach
The biblical story of Noah’s Ark sits at the intersection of faith and science. Over the years many have debated whether scientific evidence exists that would corroborate biological claims in the Ark narrative. Many religions have flood stories, but the biblical idea of a global flood that...
evolution-outreach.biomedcentral.com
Global Evidences of the Genesis Flood
The earth is scarred with evidence of the worldwide flood in Genesis.
answersingenesis.org
con
The Fatal Flaws of Flood Geology | National Center for Science Education
The flood geology theory teaches essentially that the Biblical Flood of Noah buried all the fossils within a year's time, several thousand years ago.
Yes, Noah's Flood May Have Happened, But Not Over the Whole Earth | National Center for Science Education
Introduction The Bible (Genesis 6–9) describes a worldwide flood (the Noachian Flood) covering even the highest mountains of the earth and the construction of a huge boat (a rectangular box-like craft) that transported animals, at least two of a kind of all land animals on the earth.
Ken Ham’s Impossible and Incompatible Claims About the Effects of Noah’s Flood
As many of you know, I have been working on a book that I have entitled, The Heresy of Ham. In it, I am not only arguing that the claims of young earth creationists like Ken Ham have no scientific …
www.joeledmundanderson.com
Do you have any evidence to support this claim?
Our species did not begin with just one or two people. There were populations of people that evolved over millions of years. Modern humans, hompsapiens, have only been around for roughly 200,000 years, give or take.
In the short term, inbreeding does not usually produce negative results. But long term inbreeding is an evolutionary dead end. If you're curious, do a Google search on Pakistan's inbreeding problem. The results are devastating. Retardation, physical deformities, children born without the proper enzymes you digest food, and so on.
Without the assistance of modern medicine and the proper care that comes with living in a mostly modern civilisation, these children would have died before they reached adulthood. Long term inbreeding ends with extinction. Which is why I personally do not believe the Adam and Eve story to be literal history.
That, and talking snakes...
my dad said dont have sex with a lady UNTIL you marry her
Aunty Jane
Well-Known Member
I have asked evolutionists this question as well. They had as much “real” evidence for their theory as we have for an all powerful Designer/Creator....actually less evidence....but with way more “faith” than some Bible believers.
Do you have real evidence for this assumption? I know there are theories, but theories are not facts.
When I researched the evidence that is put forward by evolutionary scientists, I noticed that there was something in their dialogue that made me realize that most of what they put forward is not solid evidence at all, but suggestion and assumptions, based on what they want to believe....and they have as much faith in their beliefs as we do, just in a different direction.
I have also heard this story, but if the Creator made the first humans without defect, then he designed them to interbreed, which genetically would not have caused problems as they would have spread their genetics over generations as they filled the earth with their children, and as they were getting further away from close relatives the gene pool would have simply taken on wider traits and given us more variety, as happened after the flood. Three couples populated the whole world and gave us a wide variety of genetic input. The gene pool in all of us is accumulated over many generations.
Before the flood, (and there is more evidence for it than you realize), humans lived very long lives, which is in keeping with God’s declaration that humans would die in the “day” that they ate the fruit of the TKGE.
For a timeless being, how long is a “day”? The apostle Peter answers that question by saying that “a thousand years with God is like one day”. (2 Peter 3:8) No human has lived a thousand years....so he was correct. Death was a process.
The other thing to take into consideration, is the fact that the creative “days” were not 24 hour periods either. The word translated “day” in Hebrew, has several meanings, one of which means an extended period of undetermined time. So if the creative “days” were thousands or even millions of years long.....then the Bible account takes on a much wider time frame.....and that means that the first two verses in the Genesis account could be millions of years apart.....this gives the creation account a whole new perspective without departing from its original story, presented to a simple people with no scientific knowledge, in a way they would understand.
But when you understand that God did not tell Adam that there was any natural cause of death, and there was another tree in the garden to provide the means for them to live forever....you see that originally, God designed human bodies for everlasting life in mortal flesh. Scientist will tell you that cell renewal in the human body should last indefinitely, but at some point the process breaks down, and brings the body to old age and death. This is explained in the fall of man, who lost his physical perfection in the death sentence he was given, and consequently, he lost everlasting life for all his offspring, due to his disobedience. Yet God did not design us for death, the ability to live forever is still in us, all God has to do is to reverse the process that produces sickness, old age and death in the human race. Can he do that? He tells us that he will, and provided the legal means to do so in the death of his son.
As mortals, we need external means to keep living, and God provided all of them in abundance. He designed the earth to go on producing them indefinitely so that that life will be sustained here forever.
We are all free to believe whatever we wish....but if you are happy with the way humans have treated the earth and each other in their time on earth, the future does not look good.....that “extinction” you speak of, could be just as inevitable. We have the means to cause it, and the mentality to bring it about.
I believe that the evidence for an intelligent Designer is way stronger than the endless series of fortunate accidents and coincidences that science suggests had to take place to produce all we see on this earth.
And when we look at the vast Universe of which we are an insignificant speck, we realize that the power behind creation is awe inspiring. Deliberate...not accidental.
The origin of life, much like the origin of the universe, is still a mystery. But the evidence for evolution exists and that's why people believe it.
Yes, there is plenty of evidence. Modern medicine is founded on evolution, and the fossil record speaks for itself. That's more than we have for the biblical stories involving the supernatural.
That assumes we were made prefect to begin with. But it doesn't say that anywhere in the bible. Even if it were true, it sounds like a rather grotesque scenario. Adam and Eve have children, and their children have children with each other or their parents. It's just... a bit much.
Again, the evidence goes on the other direction. Humans lived shorter lives in the past, not longer lives.
It's an interesting idea. But I then have to wonder why it would take any all powerful deity millions of years to create something.
I'm open to the idea of a prime mover. That is, a divine being that set everything in motion. That's basically the deist position. But to go from that to the theist position, which is the idea that God is involved in our lives in a personal way, I think is quite a stretch.
Aunty Jane
Well-Known Member
I have researched this “evidence” quite thoroughly and found it wanting…..there is solid “evidence” for adaptation, which is what Darwin observed on the Galapagos islands. He saw that the finches there were not like the mainland varieties, and saw that environmental factors including food sources, caused changes in the birds habits and the shape of their beaks. The iguanas likewise had adapted to a marine environment….but the bottom line was, they did not become a new “kind” as Genesis puts it.
The finches were still finches and the iguanas were still iguanas. The tortoises too were still tortoises.
Adaptation is not organic evolution, nor is it without limits.
Another classic example is the ”Peppered Moth”, often used as a clear example of evolution…but this too is just adaptation, something programmed into all creatures so that a change in environment or food supply does not not eliminate them.
They observed that the Peppered Moth changed color when the white bark of the trees they took refuge on changed color when coal fires turned them black. The camouflage of the white trees was now gone and allowed predators to pick them out, and their numbers reduced…so over time they adapted to a darker color and the population rose again. When the health problems from the coal fires was acknowledged, they stopped using them, and the trees began to turn back to their original color….but so did the moths. Through all the color changes, the moth stayed true to its “kind”.
If you are not careful, the scientists can pull the wool over your eyes and in very convincing language, get you to believe something that has no real evidence but a smokescreen of suggestion and assumptions.
The way evolutionists put it, all life evolved from a single cell that somehow magically transformed itself into all the creatures we see on this earth….including us…..that adaptation took all species and created new “kinds” from existing ones. No “evidence” proves that this took place or is even genetically possible……as we see in the “chain“ of evolution that is proposed by scientists….all the “links” are missing. A chain without links is not a chain at all.
Like all evidence…..it’s in the interpretation, and that has been used by scientists to disprove the idea of a Creator. It’s a very competitive field of study and grants and accolades facilitate the fudging of evidence as we have also seen when the scientific frauds were exposed. You can believe them if you wish, but do your homework.
When I studied their evidence for myself, especially the way College students were taught when the evidence was broken down into straight simple language for students, the cracks were obvious. They couldn’t hide their assumptions in scientific language because their students would have been lost.
The often repeated phrases gave them away….”might have” ….. “could have” ….. “leads us to believe”…. these are not statements of fact, but assumptions and suggestions based on no real evidence at all.
The Bible itself states that everything the Creator does is perfect…..so in his creation of humans, “made in his image”, why would he create them with defects? There was no law on incest until the nation of Israel was given God’s Law after their release from Egyptian slavery.
No one is revered in the Bible more than Abraham…..yet he was married to his half sister. Isaac was married to his Uncle’s daughters…first cousins. Incest was only made illegal once the gene pool was so polluted that it became a danger to their offspring. There was nothing “grotesque” about it until God made that law, thousands of years after Adam’s sin. No one had a problem with it.
This assumes that humans were once ape-like in their early evolution, when honest research has found that they were never “cave men”. That stooped, ape-like creature is a figment of the evolutionist’s imagination. The illustrations in their literature were not based on real evidence, but on assumption.
It is true that some primitive peoples existed in parts of the world, but if you go to some parts of the world even today you will find such people still in primitive conditions. Does this prove that the whole of the human race was at one time primitive? Look at Egypt….anything but a primitive people whose structures show them to be an advanced civilization, thousands of years ago.
For one thing, the Creator is a timeless Being…and for another he is a Creator, not a magician.
If a thousand years is just like a “day” to him, what is a few million years? He is not constrained by time because he is an immortal. What human mind can process infinity? Everything we know has limits and boundaries….the Creator has none of those, so we cannot understand him in human terms…there is no point in trying.
I would not find that a stretch at all. If that “prime mover” was responsible for the creation of the Universe and all that exists on this earth, then he would have the intelligence and power to have all things under his control. Everywhere we look, there is evidence of intelligent design and this must obviously have an intelligent designer.
What sense would it make for him to create it all, and then just go away and leave it all to its own devices?
He obviously had a purpose to its creation…..so once you find out what that purpose was, and how things transpired into what took place, we see the brilliance of him allowing his free willed creatures to test out that free will to see where it would take them. They thought they knew better than he did about what a knowledge of evil would do to humankind. What evil is perpetrated without premeditation? Once you know about a matter, thoughts become actions…..and actions cause trouble….and here we are….living in a world where the more God disappears, the worse things become. He is showing us what it means to live without him. Have we got the memo yet?
Do you love the world where evil is spreading like gangrene….or does your heart long for the world that God gave us in the beginning? A paradise where evil was unknown, and where free will was a gift rather than the curse it became when humans began to impose their will on others? We had to be shown where the abuse of free will would take us, because we couldn’t be told.
There is a big picture, but it takes careful study to appreciate where we are in the stream of time.
God forces no one to worship him, but at the end of the day, his purpose for us on this planet will come to completion, and all who do not want to live the way he created us to, will be missing…not granted citizenship there.
As the Psalmist wrote….
“For evil men will be done away with,
But those hoping in Jehovah will possess the earth.
10 Just a little while longer, and the wicked will be no more;
You will look at where they were,
And they will not be there.
11 But the meek will possess the earth,
And they will find exquisite delight in the abundance of peace.” (Psalm 37:9-10)
You can believe it or not…..
I'm curious, why don't you apply the same level of skepticism you have for evolution to the stories you read about in the bible?
Aunty Jane
Well-Known Member
It has to do with a faculty seen in man, but in no other creature on this earth.....spirituality.
The extra terrestrial beings spoken about in the Bible are also a creation of the Father, and these too are spiritual beings who worship and serve his interests. They have visited humans here on earth down through time and have imparted knowledge to God’s earthly servants, taking on human form. Is that science fiction...or science fact? Do you comprehend the power that created the Universe?
In Luke’s gospel the Pharisees were upset because Jesus didn’t keep his disciples in order as they were praising God and him as their King.....
“As soon as he got near the road down the Mount of Olives, the whole multitude of the disciples began to rejoice and to praise God with a loud voice because of all the powerful works they had seen, 38 saying: “Blessed is the one coming as the King in Jehovah’s name! Peace in heaven, and glory in the heights above!” 39 However, some of the Pharisees from the crowd said to him: “Teacher, rebuke your disciples.” 40 But in reply he said: “I tell you, if these remained silent, the stones would cry out.” (Luke 19:37-40)
If God can make the stones give praise to his son...who’s to say that anything is impossible for an all powerful Creator?
Whether you believe in the power of God, or in the convenient accidental results of evolution...it all requires faith and belief.....we choose which way to go.
Only humans have an inbuilt need to worship something higher than themselves.....for people like me, it is the Creator, whose handiwork I see everywhere. He has provided written confirmation of his existence in a book that is all about his dealings with one nation.....a nation he created for himself in order to reveal himself, not just to them, but by them, to the whole world.....but only if they want to. He will force no one to believe in him or to obey him, but those who choose to ignore the real evidence for his existence and his interest in his human creation, will have no place in his future plans for this planet....or any other one that he may wish to prepare and populate in the future.
To me, God has confirmed his existence by creation itself, which is no product of chance or of an infinite series of fortunate accidents of nature. Mother Nature is not the Creator...she is married to the Father/God.
The proof is in the bible. How many gentic flaws do you see, by whom, how many years from adam?
The bible is full of claims. But claims are not proof of anything.
I'm not sure what you're asking.
The same could asked of you regarding the theory of evolution. The theory of evolution in no way removes the possibility of a creator.
A common ancestor. We didn't evolve from monkeys though. That's a common misconception.
"Humans and monkeys are both primates. But humans are not descended from monkeys or any other primate living today. We do share a common ape ancestor with chimpanzees. It lived between 8 and 6 million years ago. But humans and chimpanzees evolved differently from that same ancestor. All apes and monkeys share a more distant relative, which lived about 25 million years ago."
Frequently Asked Questions
A common ancestor. We didn't evolve from monkeys though. That's a common misconception.
"Humans and monkeys are both primates. But humans are not descended from monkeys or any other primate living today. We do share a common ape ancestor with chimpanzees. It lived between 8 and 6 million years ago. But humans and chimpanzees evolved differently from that same ancestor. All apes and monkeys share a more distant relative, which lived about 25 million years ago."
Frequently Asked Questions
humanorigins.si.edu
A common ancestor that isn’t human? What would that be? And where would whatever that common ancestor is have come from?
Correct.
It would be another primate. We don't know where it came from. Science currently can't say where life originated from, nor why. That's why evolution is not in conflict with the idea of God being a prime mover. It's entirely possible that God was responsible for everything.
Would you propose for my consideration a primate that you would accept as one of your ancestors?
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