There are many, but Homo erectus is probably one of the better known human ancestors that is now extinct.
Critical thinking and education is linked to loss of faith
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We are agreed that Homo erectus is not human.
How would you suggest getting from Homo erectus to human in light of what scripture says God actually did, not what he could have done?
Well, Homo erectus went extinct. We didn't evolve from them. They were just another line of ancient ancestors that existed before us.
We lived alongside Neanderthals, another humanoid species that eventually went extinct. Modern humans have been around for roughly 300,000 years.
If I read Genesis correctly, and I think I did, it says that God created Adam & Eve. They have traditionally been depicted as modern humans. If you take this at face value, evolution seems redundant.
It's not a surprise to me that many Christians reject evolution outright. They don't know what it is. Evolutionary biology is complicated. But Genesis is simple, and people like simple answers. I'm not saying they're stupid, but I am saying humans generally prefer the path of least resistance.
Simple (intelligent / intentional design) gives the answer that complicated (evolution) is looking for but hasn’t found.
It's hardly solid. It's as many holes as swiss cheese. Even Darwin recognized it's limitations
Then it doesn't belong in a discussion about the existence of God.
On the origin of life, perhaps. But the fossil record contradicts the idea that there was only ever modern humans.
You'd probably be surprised at the number of Christians I've spoken to over the years that genuinely believe the dinosaurs never existed, despite the overwhelming evidence to the contrary.
Being the son of a professional geologist, Paleontology (though not involving dinosaurs) is one of my hobbies.
Not much surprises me any more.
I love dinosaurs. They're one of my passions. I was really into Cryptozoology as a kid, too. If you enjoy Paleontology, then why do you dismiss evolution?
I was shocked at the time. Their reasoning was something like, if it wasn't mentioned in Genesis, then it wasn't there. When I asked them about the fossil record, many of them dismissed fossils as fabrications.
God created all plant and animal life.Fossils are tangible evidence of his work.
I’ve been dealing with the “no origin story = “not real” concept in regard to the devil and the demons recently. Same concept, different application.
A field trip would have rid them of that notion.
Aunty Jane
Well-Known Member
Young Earth Creationists have a problem with dinosaurs, but if the earth is ancient, and creation didn’t take place in 6 literal days, then there is plenty of time for the dinosaurs to have come into existence, fulfilled whatever role they played in God’s purpose for them, and then allowed to become extinct.
Imagine humans sharing their space with creatures that would have crushed them like ants underfoot!?
Ah...the fossil record.....
What has confounded many scientists is the fact that the massive fossil evidence now available reveals the very same thing that it did in Darwin’s day: Basic kinds of living things appeared suddenly and did not change appreciably for long periods of time...and then there were only small modifications that they like to call “microevolution”, which is really only adaptation within a species. In their belief, microevolution can be stretched over millions of years to become “macroevolution”...and yet, no transitional links between one major kind of living thing and another have ever been found. So what the fossil record says is just the opposite of what was expected. How inconvenient!
Science tries to brush that aside with its theories.....but theories are not facts....their theories are based on beliefs with less evidence than old earth creationists have for an all powerful Creator.
If you do a study on fossils, the “evidence” is “interpreted” to fit their theory....not the other way around.
In his book “Red Giants and White Dwarfs”, Robert Jastrow stated: “Sometime in the first billion years, life appeared on the earth’s surface. Slowly, the fossil record indicates, living organisms climbed the ladder from simple to more advanced forms.” From this description, one would expect that the fossil record has verified a slow evolution from the first “simple” life forms to complex ones. Yet, the same book says: “The critical first billion years, during which life began, are blank pages in the earth’s history.”
“Life appeared”? You mean like magic? If science cannot tell us how life began, then what makes us believe that they have a handle on how the multitude of different lifeforms came into being? Suggestions just don’t count as scientific fact. Facts do not change.
Are we any more advanced today in our knowledge of how life began and why we see no species on earth that mates with other kinds of creatures? Even within the varieties of living things in a “family” of creatures, there is exclusivity in their breeding.
In oceans filled with fish, species are kept separated by a genetic barrier that does not allow them to interbreed. This is not a choice...it’s the way they are made. Instinct is programmed into all species. What they eat, the habitat they dwell in, and the mates they reproduce with. Mothers instinctively care for and protect their young.
Human forced breeding of certain animals of the same family “kind” are invariably sterile. Take for example mules, which are the product of crossing horses and donkeys. You cannot mate a mule with another mule as they cannot breed. The genetic barrier will not allow it. Lions and tigers have been bred by man, but their offspring too, are sterile. This alone keeps kinds and species separated.
The fossil record has no chain of creatures evolving gradually into other creatures.
If you have no links in a chain, then it’s not a chain at all. The interpretation of the fossil record is scientific fraud. And any honest study will reveal it.
Under a complicated family tree construction on Berkeley’s Evolution 101 for students, is this statement....
“The tree is supported by many lines of evidence, but it is probably not flawless. Scientists constantly reevaluate hypotheses and compare them to new evidence. As scientists gather even more data, they may revise these particular hypotheses, rearranging some of the branches on the tree. For example, evidence discovered in the last 50 years suggests that birds are dinosaurs, which required adjustment to several “vertebrate twigs.”
That is all they have....hypotheses....or educated guesses. Is that true science? Are suggestions “facts” or even based on facts? Barking up the evolutionary tree does not put you ahead of Bible believers as there is way more evidence for intelligent design in nature, than accidental mutations that are beneficial. Mutations are almost always detrimental to any species. Beneficial ones are almost zero. That is hardly solid ground to build your beliefs on.
Have you done a careful study? If not then science may have dazzled you with their suggestions and assumptions rather than any real scientific facts.
“Faith” and “belief” are required for both camps. Choose carefully.
In some ways, sure. We don't actually know what a t-rex looks like. We have to make an educated guess. That's just one example.
The thing is, science deals with the natural world. It's easier for me to believe in something when there is at least some evidence for it.
But Christianity makes these wild claims involving the supernatural, for which there is no evidence. Islam does the same thing. I say to the Muslims, provide me some evidence for these claims and they can't.
Hiddenthings
Well-Known Member
As we're seeing in this forum, many Christians make confident claims about things that lack evidence. But when asked to substantiate those claims, they often take offense and quickly withdraw from the conversation.
Unfortunately, due to a decline in critical thinking, many Christians lack the tools to effectively support their faith or beliefs.
If you look back to the 1800s, the pioneering scholars of that time were able to "prove all things"—something that is rarely seen today.
They had nowhere near the tools we do and yet they produce incredible works.
Aunty Jane
Well-Known Member
For some species of dinosaurs, there are at least skeletal remains that give some indication of size and shape. We believe what science has to offer when there is solid evidence, but when it comes to evolution, the guesswork is often more unbelievable than the supernatural events mentioned in the Bible.
Science knows that the Universe had a beginning.....can you imagine the power needed to bring it into existence? E=Mc2. Unimaginable energy and power.....and yet you can’t give the possessor of that power credit for his creation?
Can the clear design in living things come from anywhere else, but a designer? Science cannot make a blade of grass, live....
Life itself is unexplainable....it is a miracle, yet you can’t accept the miracles in the Bible?
Evidence for creation is all around you....but you have been subliminally trained to take it all for grated.
Have you ever thought about the earth itself, and why it is the only planet that has proven to have life in abundance on it?
Everything about its atmosphere shows design. The correct mixture of gasses for example....we and all other creatures, rely on oxygen to breathe, and the trees give it to us...all we need, but we breathe out Co2 and if that accumulated in the atmosphere we would all die. The trees take our Co2 and turn it into oxygen. Perfect recycling.....but added to that is the right mixture of oxygen....too much and every spark or flash of lightning would create an explosion! We would never be able to light a fire to cook our food or to keep warm.
Think about another miracle we see on our earth in abundance...water. How is it miraculous? It’s the only liquid that floats when it freezes. If all the water on earth froze from the bottom up, no marine creatures would be able to survive in its waters, but aquatic life in abundance lives beneath the polar ice caps.
Precipitation is another miraculous process involving water, most of which on this planet is salty and undrinkable to most life forms. The sun condenses water and lifts it from the oceans and into the clouds where it falls as fresh rain water, without which all land dwellers, including us, would die. Are these things just a coincidence?
There are many more things in nature that we could explore and see the wonder in them. None of which are fortunate accidents...though science wants us to believe that they are.
What definition does the Bible give for “faith”? ....because that is what is required to believe what you cannot see.
Heb 11: 1 says...
“Faith is the assured expectation of what is hoped for, the evident demonstration of realities that are not seen.”
So if you apply that to evolution as well....you can see that it takes as much “faith” and “belief” to accept the unproven theory of evolution, masquerading as a science fact, when all it really is, is science fiction....what makes you accept one over the other?
The spirituality inherent in humans should move us to accept that there is a higher power than ourselves who is responsible for our creation on a planet specifically designed to sustain life indefinitely.....and that we are here on his creation to serve his purpose.
What could his purpose for us be, do you think?
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Hiddenthings
Well-Known Member
Young Earth Creationists are in the same boat as flat-earthers, rejecting overwhelming evidence in favor of outdated and disproven ideas.
Hiddenthings
Well-Known Member
quietthinker
Well-Known Member
Critical thinking and education is linked to loss of faith
Lack of critical thinking will surely set you up to be duped by any clever operator!
quietthinker
Well-Known Member
ahhhh, the 'some'. What a cheap out; it's always the 'some' but never oneself. All those 'others' who don't have the smarts I do...tut, tut, tut!
And you can demonstrate with crappy radiometric dating methods? Why should I bother someone who thinks the bible says the planet is flat? It says no such thing.
Hiddenthings
Well-Known Member
In the same manner why bother with someone who thinks the earth is 6000 years old...I don't and won't!
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