Denominations that teach only they will be saved

[St. SteVen]

Let us, therefore, make every effort to enter that rest, so that no one will perish by following their example of disobedience.
Hebrew 4:11

Why would Paul provide this warning?
What effort?

Certainly not to maintain Sabbath compliance.

 

[St. SteVen]

As long as you’re trusting Jesus as your savior I think you can believe whatever you want about eternity.
That meme you posted with Jesus saying forgive your enemies while I torture mine in Hell for eternity makes you think.
I’m not an expert so I don’t think my views are the only valid ones. It’s not something I would argue about

Jesus taught us that to love our enemies is godly behavior.
"Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect." - vs 48

Some make God out to be worse than a pagan or a tax collector. (traitor)

So, since it is godly behavior to love our enemies, what should God do with his enemies?
Incinerate them?

Matthew 5:43-48 NIV
“You have heard that it was said, ‘Love your neighbor[a] and hate your enemy.’
44 But I tell you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you,
45 that you may be children of your Father in heaven.
He causes his sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous.
46 If you love those who love you, what reward will you get? Are not even the tax collectors doing that?
47 And if you greet only your own people, what are you doing more than others? Do not even pagans do that?
48 Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect.

 

[Patrick1966]

Jesus taught us that to love our enemies is godly behavior.
"Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect." - vs 48

Some make God out to be worse than a pagan or a tax collector. (traitor)

So, since it is godly behavior to love our enemies, what should God do with his enemies?
Incinerate them?

Matthew 5:43-48 NIV
“You have heard that it was said, ‘Love your neighbor[a] and hate your enemy.’
44 But I tell you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you,
45 that you may be children of your Father in heaven.
He causes his sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous.
46 If you love those who love you, what reward will you get? Are not even the tax collectors doing that?
47 And if you greet only your own people, what are you doing more than others? Do not even pagans do that?
48 Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect.

Don't quote the Bible to him. He doesn't believe the Bible. Besides, you're wasting your pearls.

 

[St. SteVen]

Matthew 25:46 says, “Then they [the unsaved] will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life.” According to this verse, the punishment of the unsaved is just as eternal as the life of the righteous. Some believe that those in hell will eventually cease to exist, but the Lord Himself seems to confirm that it will last forever. Matthew 25:41 and Mark 9:44 describe hell as “eternal fire” and “unquenchable fire.”
I haven’t read every post but if I remember correctly I think you believe in some form of Universalism. If I’ve got that wrong I apologize.
I’m not sure about ECT anymore. I’m open to views on annihilation and temporary punishment.

Yes, I am a Christian Universalist. A recovering evangelical, and currently deconstructing my religious upbringing.
With the help of @face2face - LOL

The definition of the words mistranslated as "eternal" is something to consider.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Aionios mistranslated as "eternal" and "everlasting" in Matthew 25:46.

All these verses below use the same NT Greek word, "aionios", the Greek word mistranslated as "eternal" and "everlasting" in Matthew 25:46. See bold below. This shows that "aionios" cannot mean eternal or everlasting.

Matthew 13:22
The seed falling among the thorns refers to someone who hears the word, but the worries of this life and the deceitfulness of wealth choke the word, making it unfruitful.

Romans 12:2
Do not conform to the pattern of this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind. Then you will be able to test and approve what God’s will is—his good, pleasing and perfect will.

1 Corinthians 1:20
Where is the wise person? Where is the teacher of the law? Where is the philosopher of this age? Has not God made foolish the wisdom of the world?

1 Corinthians 2:8
None of the rulers of this age understood it, for if they had, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory.

Ephesians 2:2
in which you used to live when you followed the ways of this world and of the ruler of the kingdom of the air, the spirit who is now at work in those who are disobedient.

Galatians 1:4-5 KJV
Who gave himself for our sins, that he might deliver us from this present evil world, according to the will of God and our Father:5 To whom be glory for ever and ever. Amen.

Luke 18:29-30
“Truly I tell you,” Jesus said to them, “no one who has left home or wife or brothers or sisters or parents or children for the sake of the kingdom of God 30 will fail to receive many times as much in this age, and in the age to come eternal life.”

Compare: Matthew 12:32; Mark 10:30; Luke 18:30; Luke 20:35; Ephesians 1:21

Aionios, the Greek word mistranslated as "eternal" and "everlasting" in the Bible (eternal hell?)

 

[St. SteVen]

Don't quote the Bible to him. He doesn't believe the Bible. Besides, you're wasting your pearls.

Say what?
Not sure that he "doesn't believe the Bible."

And I thought I had unlimited pearls to give away. - LOL
I like swine anyway. Where do you think bacon comes from? - Oink!
Oh, and ham... I love ham too.

We make a sandwich at home that is ham on artisan white bread with
a pineapple ring and Swiss cheese on top.
Under the broiler to melt the cheese, and YUM !!!!!!! -- Better have two.

 

[St. SteVen]

Just to expand, I believe that any thought system that doesn't recognize God and which doesn't defer to his laws is immoral. Why is it immoral? Because it is displeasing to God. As Jesus said, the most important of the laws is to love God. He loves us and wants our love in return. Humanism is an ideology that says that people can be "good" and "moral' without God. I wouldn't touch that with the proverbial ten-foot pole.

Do you know any atheists that are immoral people?
I would sooner trust an atheist than a Christian, personally.

You say Humanism is displeasing to God? How so?

Seems to me that Christian church culture has dismissed much that should have been kept.

It used to be immoral to go to movies, dances, or play cards. Things have changed.
I know a Christian woman that earns a good income as a poker player. Say what?

 

[Patrick1966]

You say Humanism is displeasing to God? How so?

Because it ignores God.

Humanism - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

 

[St. SteVen]

Humanism is an ideology that says that people can be "good" and "moral' without God.

I would say that is largely true. People can be "good" and "moral' without God.

 

[St. SteVen]

Because it ignores God.

Humanism is a secular philosophy, not a religion.
Why would we expect it to address the issue of God's existence?

That would be like declaring Beethoven's Fifth symphony as not being music, because it isn't worship music.

 

[St. SteVen]

You didn’t read my post to begin with. I told you I wasn’t certain about eternal conscious torment anymore and was open to other views. My mistake was to try to have a civil conversation with you.

As you know, there are three views of the final judgement.
I consider all three views to be biblical.
I respect anyone who has done their homework, and has chosen a view.
And even more so, those who are open to discuss the different views.

 

[Patrick1966]

Humanism is a secular philosophy, not a religion.
Why would we expect it to address the issue of God's existence?

That would be like declaring Beethoven's Fifth symphony as not being music, because it isn't worship music.

Do you believe that the practice of Humanism is pleasing to God?

 

[RLT63]

Jesus taught us that to love our enemies is godly behavior.
"Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect." - vs 48

Some make God out to be worse than a pagan or a tax collector. (traitor)

So, since it is godly behavior to love our enemies, what should God do with his enemies?
Incinerate them?

Matthew 5:43-48 NIV
“You have heard that it was said, ‘Love your neighbor[a] and hate your enemy.’
44 But I tell you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you,
45 that you may be children of your Father in heaven.
He causes his sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous.
46 If you love those who love you, what reward will you get? Are not even the tax collectors doing that?
47 And if you greet only your own people, what are you doing more than others? Do not even pagans do that?
48 Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect.

I see, my comment was addressed to you and @Patrick1966 took it upon himself to hijack the conversation, call the translation I used garbage and correct me

 

[RLT63]

As you know, there are three views of the final judgement.
I consider all three views to be biblical.
I respect anyone who has done their homework, and has chosen a view.
And even more so, those who are open to discuss the different views.

I wouldn’t try to tell you what to believe. I have a book called 4 Views on Hell that is very good but it’s been a while since I read it. This is something I would discuss and not be dogmatic about

 

[RLT63]

Yes, I am a Christian Universalist. A recovering evangelical, and currently deconstructing my religious upbringing.
With the help of @face2face - LOL

The definition of the words mistranslated as "eternal" is something to consider.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Aionios mistranslated as "eternal" and "everlasting" in Matthew 25:46.

All these verses below use the same NT Greek word, "aionios", the Greek word mistranslated as "eternal" and "everlasting" in Matthew 25:46. See bold below. This shows that "aionios" cannot mean eternal or everlasting.

Matthew 13:22
The seed falling among the thorns refers to someone who hears the word, but the worries of this life and the deceitfulness of wealth choke the word, making it unfruitful.

Romans 12:2
Do not conform to the pattern of this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind. Then you will be able to test and approve what God’s will is—his good, pleasing and perfect will.

1 Corinthians 1:20
Where is the wise person? Where is the teacher of the law? Where is the philosopher of this age? Has not God made foolish the wisdom of the world?

1 Corinthians 2:8
None of the rulers of this age understood it, for if they had, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory.

Ephesians 2:2
in which you used to live when you followed the ways of this world and of the ruler of the kingdom of the air, the spirit who is now at work in those who are disobedient.

Galatians 1:4-5 KJV
Who gave himself for our sins, that he might deliver us from this present evil world, according to the will of God and our Father:5 To whom be glory for ever and ever. Amen.

Luke 18:29-30
“Truly I tell you,” Jesus said to them, “no one who has left home or wife or brothers or sisters or parents or children for the sake of the kingdom of God 30 will fail to receive many times as much in this age, and in the age to come eternal life.”

Compare: Matthew 12:32; Mark 10:30; Luke 18:30; Luke 20:35; Ephesians 1:21

Aionios, the Greek word mistranslated as "eternal" and "everlasting" in the Bible (eternal hell?)

Thanks for your response. Everyone seems to be able to translate Greek words in a way that aligns with their beliefs. Try talking to a Jehovah’s Witness they are very good at this,
No matter what your views are you can find material to support them

 

[Patrick1966]

Humanism is a secular philosophy, not a religion.
Why would we expect it to address the issue of God's existence?

That would be like declaring Beethoven's Fifth symphony as not being music, because it isn't worship music.

On second thought, God does not permit all people to become believers so maybe it's a "good" thing that unbelievers practice Humanism. I guess I've changed my mind.

 

[RLT63]

A look at the word "aionion"

There is an eternal (aionion) punishment. The Universalists are not justified in picking and choosing a universalist meaning of a word.

carm.org

Another perspective on the meaning of aionion

 

[face2face]

Yes, I am a Christian Universalist. A recovering evangelical, and currently deconstructing my religious upbringing.
With the help of @face2face - LOL

The definition of the words mistranslated as "eternal" is something to consider.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Aionios mistranslated as "eternal" and "everlasting" in Matthew 25:46.

All these verses below use the same NT Greek word, "aionios", the Greek word mistranslated as "eternal" and "everlasting" in Matthew 25:46. See bold below. This shows that "aionios" cannot mean eternal or everlasting.

Matthew 13:22
The seed falling among the thorns refers to someone who hears the word, but the worries of this life and the deceitfulness of wealth choke the word, making it unfruitful.

Romans 12:2
Do not conform to the pattern of this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind. Then you will be able to test and approve what God’s will is—his good, pleasing and perfect will.

1 Corinthians 1:20
Where is the wise person? Where is the teacher of the law? Where is the philosopher of this age? Has not God made foolish the wisdom of the world?

1 Corinthians 2:8
None of the rulers of this age understood it, for if they had, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory.

Ephesians 2:2
in which you used to live when you followed the ways of this world and of the ruler of the kingdom of the air, the spirit who is now at work in those who are disobedient.

Galatians 1:4-5 KJV
Who gave himself for our sins, that he might deliver us from this present evil world, according to the will of God and our Father:5 To whom be glory for ever and ever. Amen.

Luke 18:29-30
“Truly I tell you,” Jesus said to them, “no one who has left home or wife or brothers or sisters or parents or children for the sake of the kingdom of God 30 will fail to receive many times as much in this age, and in the age to come eternal life.”

Compare: Matthew 12:32; Mark 10:30; Luke 18:30; Luke 20:35; Ephesians 1:21

Aionios, the Greek word mistranslated as "eternal" and "everlasting" in the Bible (eternal hell?)

Eternal life vs. Eternal death...sounds right to me!

 

[RLT63]

Here is what it actually says:

Matthew 25:46 CLNT
46 And these shall be coming away into chastening eonian, yet the just into life eonian.

MATTHEW'S ACCOUNT - Concordant Publishing Concern

www.concordant.org

Garbage translations lead to garbage doctrines, such as forever torture at the hands of Jesus.

View attachment 35027View attachment 35027

What do Greek dictionaries say about “aionion”?​

by Matt Slick | Dec 15, 2008 | Minor Groups & Issues, Universalism
Universalists place a great deal of weight on the word “aion,” which means “age.” From the Greek root “aion” we also have the word “aionion,” which is translated in most instances in most Bibles as “eternal.”
The significance of this is that Universalists maintain that there is no eternal punishment in hellfire. Therefore, they assert that the word “aionion” is in reference to “age duration”

and can have temporal duration. With this assertion, they try to substantiate their theological position that all people everywhere will ultimately be saved.
But, what do Greek Dictionaries and Lexicons have to say about the words and phrases used in Greek that are translated into the English “age,” “world,” “eternal,” “forever,” “forever and ever,” etc.? Let’s find out:

1. aion –
   
   , – age, world
   1. “for ever, an unbroken age, perpetuity of time, eternity; the worlds, universe; period of time, age.”1
   2. Enhanced Strong’s Lexicon, Oak Harbor, WA: Logos Research Systems, 1995.
2. aionion, aionios –
   
   – eternal
   1. “aionios,” the adjective corresponding, denoting eternal. It is used of that which in nature is endless, as, e.g., of God, (Rom. 16:26), His power, (1 Tim. 6:16), His glory, (1 Pet. 5:10), the Holy Spirit, (Heb. 9:14), redemption, (Heb. 9:12), salvation, (5:9), life in Christ, (John 3:16), the resurrection body, (2 Cor. 5:1), the future rule of Christ, (2 Pet. 1:11), which is declared to be without end, (Luke 1:33), of sin that never has forgiveness, (Mark 3:29), the judgment of God, (Heb. 6:2), and of fire, one of its instruments, (Matt. 18:8; 25:41; Jude 7).”
      1. Rom. 16:26 – ” . . .according to the commandment of the eternal God. . .”
      2. 1 Tim. 6:16 – “. . . To Him be honor and eternal dominion! Amen.”
      3. 1 Pet. 5:10 – ” . . . who called you to His eternal glory in Christ,”
      4. Mark 3:29 – ” . . . never has forgiveness, but is guilty of an eternal sin.”
      5. etc.2
      6. Vine, W. E., Vine’s Expository Dictionary of Old and New Testament Words, Grand Rapids, MI: Fleming H. Revell, 1981. Available: Logos Library System.
3. “describes duration, either undefined but not endless, as in Rom. 16:25; 2 Tim. 1:9; Tit. 1:2; or undefined because endless as in Rom. 16:26, and the other sixty–six places in the N.T.
   1. Rom. 16:25 – ” . . which has been kept secret for long ages past,”
   2. Rom 16:26 – “. . . according to the commandment of the eternal God,”
   3. 2 Tim. 1:9 – “. . . which was granted us in Christ Jesus from all eternity,”
   4. Titus 1:2 – “the hope of eternal life, which God, who cannot lie, promised” long ages ago”3
4. Eis tous aionios ton aionion –
   
   – Forever and Ever, Lit. “into the age of the ages”
   1. “unlimited duration of time, with particular focus upon the future – ‘always, forever, forever and ever, eternally.”
   2. Phil. 4:20 – “. . .to our God and Father be the glory forever and ever.”
   3. Rev. 19:3 – ” . . .Her smoke rises up forever and ever.”
   4. Rev. 20:10 – “And the devil who deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are also; and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.”4

These few references and quotes should be ample evidence that eternal hell, eternal fire, is real. It is a terrible reality, and it is all the more important to preach the gospel. The Universalists are wrong, and their theology only dilutes the need to come to Christ.

 

[RLT63]

What Does “Aionion” Mean?

Some suggest that the word simply means “age-long”, indicating that the punishment of the unrighteous will endure for an age and then come to an end, and they point out that the root of the word is aeon [αιων], meaning “age”. What are we to make of this?

pravoslavie.ru

 

[St. SteVen]

Do you believe that the practice of Humanism is pleasing to God?

The practice?
It's not a practice, it's philosophy that recognizes human potential.