Denying the Cross: How to do it

[M3n0r4h]

Plus workers of iniquity fail to be chosen according to the foreknowledge of God and never receive the gift of eternal life, trusting instead in their own works.

Mat 7:21-23 Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of My Father in heaven. (22) Many will say to Me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?’ (23) Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you workers of iniquity!’

the very meaning of 'workers of iniquity' is those who break the Commandments of God.

iniquity is sin, sin is the breaking of God's Commandments. 1 John 3:4

workers of iniquity work sin into the surrounding society by their example of lawlessness.

it is absolute nonsense to believe that God abolished all that He stood for and represented throughout the entire OT.

if you live outside the 10 Commandments, you will die in your sins.

period.

 

[Cassandra]

I didnt quote your verse.
I explained it.

Let me do it again.

I'll just post the verse that explains it for you.

Notice carefully...."remember NO MORE"

Notice carefully that there is nothing about past sin only..........as all the deceived teach.

Got that?
Read carefully
-
-
New International Version
For I will forgive their wickedness and will remember their sins no more.”

New Living Translation
And I will forgive their wickedness, and I will never again remember their sins.”

English Standard Version
For I will be merciful toward their iniquities, and I will remember their sins no more.”

Berean Standard Bible
For I will forgive their iniquities and will remember their sins no more.”

Berean Literal Bible
because I will be merciful toward their iniquities, and I shall remember their sins no more.

King James Bible
For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more.

New King James Version
For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their lawless deeds I will remember no more.”

New American Standard Bible
“FOR I WILL BE MERCIFUL TOWARD THEIR WRONGDOINGS, AND THEIR SINS I WILL NO LONGER REMEMBER.”

If He says He will remember them no more, they must have already occured. How can something be remembered that hasn't happened yet?

 

[Behold]

God didn't cease being offended by the breaking of His Commandments. Ever.

What offends God, for eternity, is for a person to die, having rejected His Son.

John 3:36 says that God's WRATH remains on you, after you die.............if you die as a unbeliever, never born again.


Believe it, N3n0r4h

 

[Behold]

If He says He will remember them no more, they must have already occured. How can something be remembered that hasn't happened yet?

Fantastic question.



1.) Its because when God saved you, He knew that the Blood Atonement, was going to remove the dominion of the Law from you.

The born again are "not under the Law, but under Grace".

"Christ is the END of the LAW, for Righteousness, to everyone who BELIEVES".

What does that mean?

It means that when you are born again, Cassnadra, you "have been translated from Darkness......to Light".

You become a "child of the LIGHT< and God "'exists in LIGHT"", and "Jesus is the Light of the World".

This means, the born again EXIST, in....the Kingdom of God., right now and forever.

This is why the NT teaches us that we are = "seated in heavenly places, In Christ"., right now.

That is the born again "new creation" in Christ,"", and that is not your body or your mind.... that is the SON/Daughter of God, born again, spiritually.

So, as the born again exist now, in God's Kingdom...... they discover something, by revelation, that im going to give you that is the "renewed mind" understanding.

A.) In God's Kingdom, where the born again have been "translated" into,= that is Heaven = that is the KOG..
There is no Moses Law or Commandments found there, Cassandra.
See, the Law and Commandments are created for SINNERS, down here.... and they are designed to bring you to the CROSS so that God can birth you into the KOG....as "in Christ'..."one with God"...."made Righteous"...as "the righteousness of God, in Christ'"
This means that there is no law or similar that can define you as a sinner or your deeds as sin, if you are born again.

"""where there is NO LAW... (Heaven) (KOG) there is no Transgression".

This is why John teaches this regarding the born again...

"As JESUS IS.......so are the born again..... in This World">..

 

[360watt]

absolute poppycock.

God didn't cease being offended by the breaking of His Commandments. Ever.

if He had, 1 John 3:4 wouldn't exist.

did Jesus teach it was ok to break God's Laws? did He set an example for all Christians to come by breaking the Commandments?

absolutely not. On the contrary, He obeyed every single one. John 15:10

and we are to do exactly the same. 1 John 2:6

Well my post was about there being discipline and rebuke for the wayward believer. So it is not ok for a believer to break God's commands.

Just because Jesus won't remove eternal life from a believer, doesn't mean there are no consequences for sin.

Most verses about discipline for the believer, daily faith, get mixed up with initial conversion.

So yeah.. He wants us to follow His commands. But it's impossible to keep them 100 percent, that's why He paid for our sins completey.

Jesus is God

 

[marks]

John 1:29 KJV
The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.

2 Corinthians 5:19 KJV
To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.

Was this just for them? Or for us also?

Much love!

 

[St. SteVen]

Enemies of the cross are those who resist the sacrifice of themselves to be dealt with by the power of the cross. Dogmatic religion based on the preservation of the self-life is in direct conflict with the kingdom of God. God is selfless. Being conformed to Christ means self-sacrifice. Those who justify themselves by dogmatic twisting of the bible will show themselves hostile to such sacrifice...calling it "works salvation".

No one can enter into the holy presence of God and remain there to abide in Christ unless that person be broken in the outer man. A religion that is based on the cult of presumption mocks at this requirement. But it costs us everything to enter into the kingdom realm and life of God. The free sample of initial grace is there to attract us to purchase the full product...which is the full measure of grace that enables us to walk in the resurrection power of Christ. We will seek and find Christ when we seek Him with ALL our hearts, That is cost of the fulness of God...our own full surrender.

That's interesting.
I have (in the past) connected the enemies of the cross as denying the Atonement, or the faith in general.
But you are connecting it to the bearing of the cross daily.

 

[Stumpmaster]

the very meaning of 'workers of iniquity' is those who break the Commandments of God.

iniquity is sin, sin is the breaking of God's Commandments. 1 John 3:4

workers of iniquity work sin into the surrounding society by their example of lawlessness.

it is absolute nonsense to believe that God abolished all that He stood for and represented throughout the entire OT.

if you live outside the 10 Commandments, you will die in your sins.

period.

And yet salvation is by grace through faith, not of works, lest anyone should boast. The self-righteous Pharisees missed this.

Rom 14:23 But he who doubts is condemned if he eats, because he does not eat from faith; for whatever is not from faith is sin.

Heb 3:12 Beware, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief in departing from the living God;


Heb 11:6 But without faith it is impossible to please Him, for he who comes to God must believe that He is, and that He is a rewarder of those who diligently seek Him.

 

[M3n0r4h]

So yeah.. He wants us to follow His commands. But it's impossible to keep them 100 percent, that's why He paid for our sins completey.

it's impossible for a man to keep them perfectly by his own human strength. That's why the Holy Spirit inspires, enables and empowers us to do it.

as long as our heart is willing, it's God doing the work, not us - therefore it isn't works salvation, as many claim, and it isn't impossible for a devoted Christian, who is indwelled with the Holy Spirit, to obey all 10 of the Commandments. If we stumble, James 3:2 covers that.

tell us which of the 10 Commandments are impossible to keep. here they are for reference:

which ones are impossible for a committed Christian to keep?

 

[M3n0r4h]

And yet salvation is by grace through faith, not of works, lest anyone should boast. The self-righteous Pharisees missed this.

Rom 14:23 But he who doubts is condemned if he eats, because he does not eat from faith; for whatever is not from faith is sin.

Heb 3:12 Beware, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief in departing from the living God;


Heb 11:6 But without faith it is impossible to please Him, for he who comes to God must believe that He is, and that He is a rewarder of those who diligently seek Him.

if you're trying to make the case that obeying the 10 Commandments is works salvation, you are wrong.

yes, you must have true faith to obey them. that is what it takes for the Holy Spirit to indwell you and assist you in your obedience to God's Laws. it is God who does the works through those who commit their hearts to Him.

if you're trying to make the case that all it takes to be saved is believing, you are wrong.

even the demons believe and shudder - they will not be saved.

God expects His True followers of Christ to think, speak and behave in a certain way. those who refuse to accept that God actually expects something from His people are lost and will die in their sins because those people believe they can arrive at Christianity as a daily sinner, get saved, profess to be Christians and then go right on sinning as they always have, not changing a single thing, and God will smile down upon them for living their lives completely contrary to what He has laid out as righteous living and welcome them into heaven to reside for eternity among Him and all the holiest beings that have ever existed.

again, that's the definition of workers of iniquity.

 

[360watt]

it's impossible for a man to keep them perfectly by his own human strength. That's why the Holy Spirit inspires, enables and empowers us to do it.

as long as our heart is willing, it's God doing the work, not us - therefore it isn't works salvation, as many claim, and it isn't impossible for a devoted Christian, who is indwelled with the Holy Spirit, to obey all 10 of the Commandments. If we stumble, James 3:2 covers that.

tell us which of the 10 Commandments are impossible to keep. here they are for reference:

which ones are impossible for a committed Christian to keep?

Impossible to keep 100 percent, all of the time. Not impossible to keep intermittently

 

[360watt]

if you're trying to make the case that obeying the 10 Commandments is works salvation, you are wrong.

yes, you must have true faith to obey them. that is what it takes for the Holy Spirit to indwell you and assist you in your obedience to God's Laws. it is God who does the works through those who commit their hearts to Him.

if you're trying to make the case that all it takes to be saved is believing, you are wrong.

even the demons believe and shudder - they will not be saved.

God expects His True followers of Christ to think, speak and behave in a certain way. those who refuse to accept that God actually expects something from His people are lost and will die in their sins because those people believe they can arrive at Christianity as a daily sinner, get saved, profess to be Christians and then go right on sinning as they always have, not changing a single thing, and God will smile down upon them for living their lives completely contrary to what He has laid out as righteous living and welcome them into heaven to reside for eternity among Him and all the holiest beings that have ever existed.

again, that's the definition of workers of iniquity.

The quote of even the demons believe and tremble... gotta put it in its right context.

The demons know God exists.. but have no personal relationship with Jesus.

A sinner who believes Jesus is God, that He died and rose again, and that by believing in Him, they are saved eternally.. is conversion.

They DO have a personal relationship with Jesus Christ. They don't just know God exists.. they have been indwelled by Him through His Holy Spirit.

Again.. James 2 isn't primarily about getting converted, but what you do that is profitable to others with your faith you already have been given.

 

[Keturah]

John 1:29 KJV
The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.

2 Corinthians 5:19 KJV
To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.

Was this just for them? Or for us also?

Much love!

I've seen you state that you are not sinless.

Do you hold to Behold teachings?

If you sin or go against what God says do you confess & repent to him in your prayers?

Is not confessing & repenting of sin a lack of accountability to God?

I'm not talking eternal security here either. But when a person is tried to have anger, unkind thoughts ect., is that sin to you or not ?

Behold says many things about who is a Christian or not & a heretic......

How do you stand in Beholds beliefs?

Ill look for your answers!

 

[Keturah]

it's impossible for a man to keep them perfectly by his own human strength. That's why the Holy Spirit inspires, enables and empowers us to do it.

as long as our heart is willing, it's God doing the work, not us - therefore it isn't works salvation, as many claim, and it isn't impossible for a devoted Christian, who is indwelled with the Holy Spirit, to obey all 10 of the Commandments. If we stumble, James 3:2 covers that.

tell us which of the 10 Commandments are impossible to keep. here they are for reference:

which ones are impossible for a committed Christian to keep?

Jesus simply said, love the Lord your God with all your strength, soul & mind, love your neighbor as yourself & love one another, brethren, that the world would know you are my disciple.

We cannot do these within ourselves IT TAKES THE SPIRIT, THE WORD & GOD TO MAKE US ABLE OVERCOME OUR FLESH. YES?

 

[marks]

I've seen you state that you are not sinless.

Do you hold to Behold teachings?

If you sin or go against what God says do you confess & repent to him in your prayers?

Is not confessing & repenting of sin a lack of accountability to God?

I'm not talking eternal security here either. But when a person is tried to have anger, unkind thoughts ect., is that sin to you or not ?

Behold says many things about who is a Christian or not & a heretic......

How do you stand in Beholds beliefs?

Ill look for your answers!

I'm out of time today to give a good answer, but in short, in Christ, we are reborn a new creation, the spirit child of God. We are no longer of Adam's race, and no longer are we identified with our flesh, which remains under condemnation, though it too will be redeemed in our resurrection/transformation.

All our sin is removed - Look! The Lamb of God, that carries away the sin of the world!

And then comes the renewing of the mind, what Behold refers to in discipleship. Our training to think and therefore act according to this new creation, which shares the righteousness of Jesus Himself.

Our soul - psyche - has been ingrained in the old way of thinking, that we have to earn anything we get, and that we cannot control our sinfulness. So through a variety of means God leads us through healings and trainings and building up, and filling us up, giving us all the range of things we all by now know, so that we are tested and proven, so that we know that we know that we know.

Coming to realize that I am completely and permanently reconciled to God has been to me the power to overcome sin. Whenever I realize I've been walking according to flesh, recalling to mind this truth brings me back into the Spirit.

I'm still in process of being renewed. Behold would call these acts that are not Spirit to be works of flesh, the Bible calls them that. But it also calls it sin, yet if any sin we have an advocate. Sin lives in the flesh, where we used to live, but now we live in the Spirit.

The flesh - where sin lives - remains condemned, we, who are in the Spirit, are not condemned. Our reconciliation to God never was founded upon our behavior, it's in Jesus, His death on the cross, pure and simple. God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself, and having received that reconciliation, we have peace with God. Based on Jesus, not ourselves, but Jesus, Who does not change, and remains forever our Intersessor.

Who condemns us? Our Judge is He Who justifies us. The Lamb of God, Who carried away our sin, long before we were even born.

I hope this answers you, but feel free to ask whatever you wish.

Much love!

 

[Keturah]

Hmmm. I see the leaven has worked, I'm very sorry to see this.

 

[Stumpmaster]

if you're trying to make the case that all it takes to be saved is believing, you are wrong.

Works without faith are dead works just as faith without works is dead faith.



Heb 6:1-9 Therefore, leaving the discussion of the elementary principles of Christ, let us go on to perfection, not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works and of faith toward God, (2) of the doctrine of baptisms, of laying on of hands, of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment. (3) And this we will do if God permits. (4) For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted the heavenly gift, and have become partakers of the Holy Spirit, (5) and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come, (6) if they fall away, to renew them again to repentance, since they crucify again for themselves the Son of God, and put Him to an open shame. (7) For the earth which drinks in the rain that often comes upon it, and bears herbs useful for those by whom it is cultivated, receives blessing from God; (8) but if it bears thorns and briers, it is rejected and near to being cursed, whose end is to be burned. (9) But, beloved, we are confident of better things concerning you, yes, things that accompany salvation, though we speak in this manner.

 

[360watt]

Works without faith are dead works just as faith without works is dead faith.


View attachment 33498
Heb 6:1-9 Therefore, leaving the discussion of the elementary principles of Christ, let us go on to perfection, not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works and of faith toward God, (2) of the doctrine of baptisms, of laying on of hands, of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment. (3) And this we will do if God permits. (4) For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted the heavenly gift, and have become partakers of the Holy Spirit, (5) and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come, (6) if they fall away, to renew them again to repentance, since they crucify again for themselves the Son of God, and put Him to an open shame. (7) For the earth which drinks in the rain that often comes upon it, and bears herbs useful for those by whom it is cultivated, receives blessing from God; (8) but if it bears thorns and briers, it is rejected and near to being cursed, whose end is to be burned. (9) But, beloved, we are confident of better things concerning you, yes, things that accompany salvation, though we speak in this manner.

Hi from Christchurch! My cousins live in Hamilton.

In regards the 'faith without works is dead' verse in James 2.

What kind of faith is James referring to?

Initial conversion or daily service?

Because Abraham believed in God much earlier than when he offered his son Isaac up.

His work was profitable..justified as a right act.. but had no bearing on his eternal state.

Rahab.. already had faith . She used it to hide the people.

Her faith was profitable to others. Not dormant or unused . This also had no bearing on her eternal state.

So faith here. . is 'THE' faith.. not initial conversion.

Initial salvation Vs daily service. They aren't mixed together.

Can faith alone save him? Yes it can save eternally.. but that is not the subject of James 2. Will their faith be profitable to others? That is the subject of James 2.

Can faith save someone in need? No..not unless combined with a saving act.

 

[Stumpmaster]

Hi from Christchurch! My cousins live in Hamilton.

In regards the 'faith without works is dead' verse in James 2.

What kind of faith is James referring to?

Initial conversion or daily service?

Because Abraham believed in God much earlier than when he offered his son Isaac up.

His work was profitable..justified as a right act.. but had no bearing on his eternal state.

Rahab.. already had faith . She used it to hide the people.

Her faith was profitable to others. Not dormant or unused . This also had no bearing on her eternal state.

So faith here. . is 'THE' faith.. not initial conversion.

Initial salvation Vs daily service. They aren't mixed together.

Can faith alone save him? Yes it can save eternally.. but that is not the subject of James 2. Will their faith be profitable to others? That is the subject of James 2.

Can faith save someone in need? No..not unless combined with a saving act.

Interesting. Works without faith cannot save, as many are unaware of, like the foolish Galations who fell from grace.

 

[Robert Gwin]

Exactly.

The Cross of Christ deals with sin..

Final answer.

Again what has a cross have to do with it Be? Your apparent idol is of no consequence to the atoning blood that purchased what Adam lost for us.