Denying the Cross: How to do it

[St. SteVen]

which ones are impossible for a committed Christian to keep?

There is a HUGE assumption in that question. (loaded)
It assumes that we are under the law. (nope)

Galatians 3:23-25 NIV
Before the coming of this faith,[a] we were held in custody under the law,
locked up until the faith that was to come would be revealed.
24 So the law was our guardian until Christ came that we might be justified by faith.
25 Now that this faith has come, we are no longer under a guardian.

 

[St. SteVen]

which ones are impossible for a committed Christian to keep?

And specifically toward the Ten...
Assuming the Ten were, "engraved in letters on stone"...

The Ten are the transitory ministry that brought condemnation
and death that have no glory now. Other than that... awesome. - LOL
The letter kills, but the Spirit gives life. (vs 6)

2 Corinthians 3:6-11 NIV
He has made us competent as ministers of a new covenant—
not of the letter but of the Spirit; for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life.
7 Now if the ministry that brought death, which was engraved in letters on stone,
came with glory, so that the Israelites could not look steadily at the face of Moses
because of its glory, transitory though it was,
8 will not the ministry of the Spirit be even more glorious?
9 If the ministry that brought condemnation was glorious,
how much more glorious is the ministry that brings righteousness!
10 For what was glorious has no glory now
in comparison with the surpassing glory.
11 And if what was transitory came with glory,
how much greater is the glory of that which lasts!

 

[M3n0r4h]

Works without faith are dead works just as faith without works is dead faith.


View attachment 33498
Heb 6:1-9 Therefore, leaving the discussion of the elementary principles of Christ, let us go on to perfection, not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works and of faith toward God, (2) of the doctrine of baptisms, of laying on of hands, of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment. (3) And this we will do if God permits. (4) For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted the heavenly gift, and have become partakers of the Holy Spirit, (5) and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come, (6) if they fall away, to renew them again to repentance, since they crucify again for themselves the Son of God, and put Him to an open shame. (7) For the earth which drinks in the rain that often comes upon it, and bears herbs useful for those by whom it is cultivated, receives blessing from God; (8) but if it bears thorns and briers, it is rejected and near to being cursed, whose end is to be burned. (9) But, beloved, we are confident of better things concerning you, yes, things that accompany salvation, though we speak in this manner.

not exactly sure what your point is here, but, in my experience, this line of discussion always comes back to the same unpopular point:

faith (belief) is a gift.

if it were not, that would make us our own saviors. nobody can simply wake up one morning and choose to believe and so become saved. that is nonsense that the modern mainstream fallen churches teach.

nobody can even desire Christ without the Father drawing them to Him and His Words.
John 6:44

in harmony with that Truth, faith is repeatedly proven in scripture to be a gift from God.
1 Cor. 12:9
Eph. 2:8
Phil. 1:29
1 Pet. 1:21
Jude 1:3

not a choice.

now when we take that data that is straight from scripture, we see the inherent fallacy in the false concept that all one must do is believe to be saved. here is what the corrected equation becomes:

all one must do is believe (be given faith = be saved) to be saved.

it is illogical and does not stand up to Biblical scrutiny.

nobody can save anybody. God saves. and nobody can make the decision of themselves to believe, thus nobody can save themselves.

when God gives someone faith, they then seek Christ and begin to follow Him and then He indwells them as the Holy Spirit:

John 14:21, 23

(on a side note: when did this forum stop allowing verses to be seen when hovered over with cursor?)

 

[M3n0r4h]

There is a HUGE assumption in that question. (loaded)
It assumes that we are under the law. (nope)

nope, it's just a simple straightforward question that you are evading.

everyone who argues your position refuses to answer it because it proves their position is faulty.

 

[M3n0r4h]

And specifically toward the Ten...
Assuming the Ten were, "engraved in letters on stone"...

what do you mean assuming?

are you one of those modern professed Christians who doesn't really believe the Bible?

The Ten are the transitory ministry that brought condemnation
and death that have no glory now. Other than that... awesome. - LOL
The letter kills, but the Spirit gives life. (vs 6)

apparently Jesus strongly disagrees with you as He obeyed every single one as an example to us. if He had intended to teach Christians not to obey them, He would have set the example not to obey them. that's not what He did.

John 15:10

and, just as the term Christian is defined, we are to do as He did.

1 John 2:6

with His Spirit in us, we can ... and those of us who are sincere, ... do.

 

[St. SteVen]

nope, it's just a simple straightforward question that you are evading.

everyone who argues your position refuses to answer it because it proves their position is faulty.

As you wish.

NO ONE can keep the Ten Commandments. That's the point.
None of them can be kept. None. Zero.
We are ALL idolators and murderers.
We are ALL covetous thieves and adulterers.
To deny this makes you a LIAR. (sorry)

Are you happy now?

 

[St. SteVen]

are you one of those modern professed Christians who doesn't really believe the Bible?

Are you one of those legalistic Sabbatarians that hasn't read the set in Deuteronomy that say the Ten are NOT for us?

Deuteronomy 5:1-3 NIV
Hear, Israel, the decrees and laws I declare in your hearing today.
Learn them and be sure to follow them.
2 The Lord our God made a covenant with us at Horeb.
3 It was not with our ancestors[a] that the Lord made this covenant,
but with us, with all of us who are alive here today.

 

[St. SteVen]

apparently Jesus strongly disagrees with you as He obeyed every single one as an example to us.

Is that a fact? (nope)

John 9:16 NIV
Some of the Pharisees said, “This man is not from God, for he does not keep the Sabbath.”
But others asked, “How can a sinner perform such signs?” So they were divided.

John 5:18 NIV
For this reason they tried all the more to kill him; not only was he breaking the Sabbath,
but he was even calling God his own Father, making himself equal with God.

 

[St. SteVen]

apparently Jesus strongly disagrees with you

So, Jesus versus the Apostle Paul?
I quoted Paul on this and you disagree?

And specifically toward the Ten...
Assuming the Ten were, "engraved in letters on stone"...

The Ten are the transitory ministry that brought condemnation
and death that have no glory now. Other than that... awesome. - LOL
The letter kills, but the Spirit gives life. (vs 6)

2 Corinthians 3:6-11 NIV
He has made us competent as ministers of a new covenant—
not of the letter but of the Spirit; for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life.
7 Now if the ministry that brought death, which was engraved in letters on stone,
came with glory, so that the Israelites could not look steadily at the face of Moses
because of its glory, transitory though it was,
8 will not the ministry of the Spirit be even more glorious?
9 If the ministry that brought condemnation was glorious,
how much more glorious is the ministry that brings righteousness!
10 For what was glorious has no glory now
in comparison with the surpassing glory.
11 And if what was transitory came with glory,
how much greater is the glory of that which lasts!

What did Paul say about Christ? (which I already quoted above)

Galatians 3:23-25 NIV
Before the coming of this faith,[a] we were held in custody under the law,
locked up until the faith that was to come would be revealed.
24 So the law was our guardian until Christ came that we might be justified by faith.
25 Now that this faith has come, we are no longer under a guardian.

 

[St. SteVen]

nobody can save anybody. God saves. and nobody can make the decision of themselves to believe, thus nobody can save themselves.

I agree.
What does that say about the law?

 

[setst777]

-

Bible Rejectors, Heretics, and the deceived blaspheme the power of the Cleansing BLOOD of Jesus , by teaching that only past sins are forgiven by the Sacrifice of Christ on the Cross.
Paul teaches, that the Cross Of Christ is = "THE "ETERNAL Sacrifice for sin"" that is the finished work of Jesus on The Cross..

How do you know its Eternal ?
How do you know the BLOOD ATONEMENT, the NEW COVENANT, written in the Blood of Jesus is "ETERNAL"?, and not just temporary, or "past only" sins are forgiven?

1.) Well, one of the ways you know is that when The Blood Of Jesus has washed away your sin, you have ETERNAL LIFE< and eternal life is not Temporary.
So, the "Power of the Blood of Jesus"..>Its FRUIT, is "ETERNAL LIFE", that is now the Born again Believer's, spiritual domain.

ALSO....

2.) Because the Cross of Cross is 2000 yrs ago, and its still paying for sin TODAY, for as Long as God lives to keep offering ""the Gift of Salvation""" as "the Gift of RIGHTEOUSNESS".

Reader...Listen..

There is a "damned" Galatians 1:8 cult teaching that says...>>>"only the sins that you committed before you are born again, are forgiven"

And that denies the Lord's "ETERNAL Sacrifice for Sin"""


So, the Self Righteous, play this game......Reader..

= "As long as i remember all my sin to confess, God will keep saving me over and over, and forgive me over and over".

So that is now the person up on the Cross..Confessing to try to stay saved....., and Jesus is ripped off the nails by their Self Righteousness.

A.) (Self Saving). = Christ denying.

The Born Again, who understand the "" ONE TIME...ETERAL Sacrifice of Christ "" as """God hath made Jesus to be SIN for us" ...know that Jesus has their sin, and They have become a "new creation in Christ' ....."Made Righteous." and are "one with God" "In Christ", and there is no sin found there.

AS...."::Being Now = made free from sin"::, is the eternal fruit of Jesus's Sacrifice on the Cross. Paul teaches.

See that 'NOW". ????? "NOW being made free from sin"?

That means = right NOW.... and for always.. "being made free"..."from sin".

That is the Power of the Blood Atonemen

You have provided not even one Scripture. Yes, the Blood of Lord Jesus is sufficient to cleanse all sins - past, present, and future.

However, as you well know, this redemption by His blood is received by believing (continuous believing) in Lord Jesus (John 3:16).

Eternal life is a promise for those who are believing, which is a present faith that is to continue to remain in The Promise (John 3:16).

John 3:16 (Young's Literal Translation) 16 for God did so love the world, that His Son -- the only begotten -- He gave, that every one who is believing in him may not perish, but may have life age-during.

We are cleansed from all sin, and we possess eternal life as we continue to believe (believing) in Lord Jesus - Jesus is Lord.

Romans 10:10-11 (WEB) 10 For with the heart, one believes resulting in righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made resulting in salvation. 11 For the Scripture says, “Whoever believes in him will not be disappointed.” [Isaiah 28:16]

Present and future sins are also forgiven by the blood of Lord Jesus, but only cleanses those who believe, and continue to believe, evidenced by walking (continuous walking) in the Light (righteousness). To these faithful ones who sin in weakness, if they confess their sins, they are forgiven.

1 John 1:6-7 (WEB) 6 If we say that we have fellowship with him and walk in the darkness, we lie, and don’t tell the truth. 7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and {{{the blood}}} of Jesus Christ, his Son, cleanses us from all sin.

1 John 1:9 (WEB) 9 If we [believers who walk in the light] confess our sins, he is faithful and righteous to forgive us the sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

 

[Behold]

But you are connecting it to the bearing of the cross daily.

Reader,

If you are bearing your Cross daily, as... "present your body as a living sacrifice to God, which is your reasonable service",... then that is to understand that ... because you have God's Salvation... already ,... you then produce the life, the fruit, the Discipleship.

But, what a Heretic does, is teach that "bearing your Cross" is your Salvation.

And that Denies the Cross of Christ that actually IS our Salvation.

Why? How ?

Because that puts you on the Cross,= trying to be your own Salvation by self effort, and when you do that your SELF RIGHTEOUSNESS just ripped Jesus of the nails ..

That DEED, that MIND< that THEOLOGY is Cross Denying = Legalism.

 

[marks]

it's impossible for a man to keep them perfectly by his own human strength. That's why the Holy Spirit inspires, enables and empowers us to do it.

as long as our heart is willing, it's God doing the work, not us - therefore it isn't works salvation, as many claim, and it isn't impossible for a devoted Christian, who is indwelled with the Holy Spirit, to obey all 10 of the Commandments. If we stumble, James 3:2 covers that.

tell us which of the 10 Commandments are impossible to keep. here they are for reference:

which ones are impossible for a committed Christian to keep?

Why do you focus on Israel's covenant with God, when the Law of Love is actually much more comprehensive? It covers all of these, and much more besides. Is it that you find it easier to keep the 10 commandments than you do to trust and love at all times?

Much love!

 

[Behold]

You have provided not even one Scripture.

However, as you well know, this redemption by His blood is received by believing (continuous believing)

````My Thread has quite a few verses in it.

Also, setst777..... you are teaching false theology as your heretical Self Effort Gospel.

For example.........."Faith is counted as righteousness"... That is one time.... You give God your Faith in Christ, and God gives you "The Gift of Salvation".
This is proven by being BORN AGAIN.... ONCE.

So, you teach, "continuous believing", is required...... and that is not the case to become Born again, which proves you have Salvation and Eternal Life.

Jesus said..."if you believe in Me, i will give you Eternal life"...

He never said... "only if you continually keep believing". as your Cult taught you to teach.

So, setst777... dont teach the lie that "FAITH is Salvation"", as that is what you are teaching.

You are teaching that "if i hold unto my faith, God will hold unto me".

And that is FAITH In Faith., and that is a FALSE Gospel.

Listen.

When you give God your Faith, God gives you, His Son, as your Sin Bearer., right then..........DONE. BORN AGAIN.. SAVED.
That is ONE TIME< for ALL TIME.
That is : Salvation. "In Christ".

Christ completed Salvation on the Cross and God gives it to us the INSTANT that we Give Him our Faith in CHRIST>

This is not a process... This is REDEMPTION that produces an INSTANT Eternal Result.

= Born again... "In Christ".. ."One with God".... "made righteous".

 

[setst777]

````My Thread has quite a few verses in it.

Also, setst777..... you are teaching false theology as your heretical Self Effort Gospel.

For example.........."Faith is counted as righteousness"... That is one time.... You give God your Faith in Christ, and God gives you "The Gift of Salvation".
This is proven by being BORN AGAIN.... ONCE.

So, you teach, "continuous believing", is required...... and that is not the case to become Born again, which proves you have Salvation and Eternal Life.

Jesus said..."if you believe in Me, i will give you Eternal life"...

He never said... "only if you continually keep believing". as your Cult taught you to teach.

So, setst777... dont teach the lie that "FAITH is Salvation"", as that is what you are teaching.

You are teaching that "if i hold unto my faith, God will hold unto me".

And that is FAITH In Faith., and that is a FALSE Gospel.

Listen.

When you give God your Faith, God gives you, His Son, as your Sin Bearer., right then..........DONE. BORN AGAIN.. SAVED.
That is ONE TIME< for ALL TIME.
That is : Salvation. "In Christ".

Christ completed Salvation on the Cross and God gives it to us the INSTANT that we Give Him our Faith in CHRIST>

This is not a process... This is REDEMPTION that produces an INSTANT Eternal Result.

= Born again... "In Christ".. ."One with God".... "made righteous".

To believe, believes, are present tense. A present tense in Greek continues. Salvation is for those who are believing - continuous.

Since you quote Lord Jesus, I will show you that Lord Jesus defines what he means by "believe" as follows:

Matthew 24:11-13 (WEB) [To believers] 11 Many false prophets will arise and will lead many astray. 12 Because iniquity will be multiplied, the love of many will grow cold. 13 But he who endures to the end will be saved.

Luke 21:19 (WEB) 19 “By your endurance you will win your lives.

Revelation 3:11 (EWEB) 11 Hold firmly that which you have, so that no one takes your crown.

Luke 21:34-36 (EWEB)34 “So be careful, or your hearts will be loaded down with carousing, drunkenness, and cares of this life, and that day will come on you suddenly. 35 For it will come like a snare on all those who dwell on the surface of all the earth. 36 Therefore be watchful all the time, praying that you may be counted worthy to escape all these things that will happen, and to stand before the Son of Man.”

Revelation 3:3-5 (EWEB) 3 Remember therefore how you have received and heard. Keep it and repent. If therefore you won’t watch, I will come as a thief, and you won’t know what hour I will come upon you. 4 Nevertheless you have a few names in Sardis that did not defile their garments. They will walk with me in white, for they are worthy. 5 He who overcomes will be arrayed in white garments, and I will in no way blot his name out of the book of life, and I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels.

 

[M3n0r4h]

NO ONE can keep the Ten Commandments. That's the point.
None of them can be kept. None. Zero.
We are ALL idolators and murderers.
We are ALL covetous thieves and adulterers.
To deny this makes you a LIAR. (sorry)

you paid a pretty penny for your education.

 

[setst777]

Why do you focus on Israel's covenant with God, when the Law of Love is actually much more comprehensive? It covers all of these, and much more besides. Is it that you find it easier to keep the 10 commandments than you do to trust and love at all times?

Much love!

From what I am understanding from "M3n0r4h", the moral law of God is fulfilled in those who walk by the Spirit.

Romans 8:3-4 (WEB) 3 For what the law couldn’t do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God did, sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh and for sin, he condemned sin in the flesh; 4 that the ordinance of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

 

[M3n0r4h]

Is that a fact? (nope)

John 9:16 NIV
Some of the Pharisees said, “This man is not from God, for he does not keep the Sabbath.”
But others asked, “How can a sinner perform such signs?” So they were divided.

John 5:18 NIV
For this reason they tried all the more to kill him; not only was he breaking the Sabbath,
but he was even calling God his own Father, making himself equal with God.

yep, you paid a whole lotta money to be taught a bunch of horse manure.

if Jesus sinned, then how was He the sinless Savior?

if Jesus sinned, how did He overcome the world?

how did He defeat Death?

the Bible very clearly states that Jesus was 100% without sin so your whole high-dollar house of cards comes crashing down.

it's sad to see how many well-meaning Christians get brainwashed to this absolute nonsense.

if you had any sincerity and diligence in studying your Bible ON YOUR OWN, you wouldn't so easily fall prey to such blasphemous lies of the devil.

good luck with all that. I suggest you forget all that you've been taught and start over fresh and read the Bible cover to cover on your own for the next ten years.

God bless.

 

[marks]

From what I am understanding from "M3n0r4h", the moral law of God is fulfilled in those who walk by the Spirit.

Romans 8:3-4 (WEB) 3 For what the law couldn’t do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God did, sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh and for sin, he condemned sin in the flesh; 4 that the ordinance of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

The "moral law"? You cannot subdivide the Law. This was given as a covenant to Israel, and all had to be kept, not just part. James affirmed this in declaring, if you keep the whole Law but offend in just one point, you are guilty of all of it, that is, you are a lawbreaker.

Now as to the Law might be fulfilled in us, are you reading that as that the Law might be fulfilled BY us? It's different.

Much love!

 

[M3n0r4h]

Are you one of those legalistic Sabbatarians that hasn't read the set in Deuteronomy that say the Ten are NOT for us?

Deuteronomy 5:1-3 NIV
Hear, Israel, the decrees and laws I declare in your hearing today.
Learn them and be sure to follow them.
2 The Lord our God made a covenant with us at Horeb.
3 It was not with our ancestors[a] that the Lord made this covenant,
but with us, with all of us who are alive here today.

nope, I'm one of those Bible Believing Christians who found very easily in the Bible, through honest and diligent study, that the Commandments were given to all mankind.

can you read this:

10 Ye stand this day all of you before the Lord your God; your captains of your tribes, your elders, and your officers, with all the men of Israel,

11 Your little ones, your wives, and thy stranger that is in thy camp, from the hewer of thy wood unto the drawer of thy water:

Deut. 29:10-11

14 Neither with you only do I make this covenant and this oath;

15 But with him that standeth here with us this day before the Lord our God, and also with him that is not here with us this day:

Deut. 29:14-15

you won't do very well believing all that the seminary sorcerers and pulpit pimps teach you. you'd best wise-up and do some personal study for yourself. your salvation depends on it.

God's people are destroyed for lack of knowledge and those who do not understand the Truth will fall.

Hosea 4:6, 14