Discerning : The Water Cults

[Truther]

Still dancing around the fact that the gentiles were already saved I see.
Do you understand that the Bible reveals more Truth as it moves forward in time? The OT gives us glimpses of what God is like and how he works. And the New shows him revealed more and more, to both the diciples and to us, the readers. Peter got some things right at pentecost, but he did not yet have the full revelation.
What does John the Baptist say about baptism?

“I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire:” – Matthew 3:11

Paul received farther Revelation on this topic:

13 For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?” – Romans 6:3

What kind of baptism is Paul talking about? Not a wet one!

John the Baptist contrasted his baptism in water with Jesus’ baptism with the Holy Spirit. According to John the Baptist, the baptism with the Holy Spirit would be a distinctive part of the ministry of Jesus Christ.

Before His ascension into heaven Jesus said the following to His disciples.

John baptized with water, but in just a few days you will be baptized with the Holy Spirit (Acts 1:5 NLT).

Simon Peter used this phrase when recounting what took place when the gospel was received by the Gentiles. We read of this in the Book of Acts. He said.15 “As I began to speak, the Holy Spirit came on them as he had come on us at the beginning. 16 Then I remembered what the Lord had said: ‘John baptized with water, but you will be baptized with the Holy Spirit.’ 17 So if God gave them the same gift he gave us who believed in the Lord Jesus Christ, who was I to think that I could stand in God’s way?”

Ahh, now Peter is understanding that it's not just about the water and not just about repentance.
It's a new form of baptism that comes from believing in Christ's resurrection.



The Apostle Paul used the phrase once. In his first letter to the Corinthians he wrote the following words.

For in one Spirit we were all baptized into one body. Whether we are Jews or Greeks or slaves or free, we were all made to drink of the one Spirit 1 Corinthians 12:13
Are you getting it now?

To the Galatians, Paul proclaimed that believers had been baptized “into” Christ. He explained it in this manner.

for all of you who were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ Galatians 3:27

To the church in Ephesus, the Apostle Paul emphasized that there is only one baptism. He put it this way.

[There is] One Lord, one faith, one baptism Ephesians 4:5

What baptism is it that matters? Not the wet one, but the baptism of fire. The Baptism of the Holy Spirit.
Thanks for the discussion because it has really clarified my understanding of this topic to study it more. I believe more than ever that those who rely on their dunking for their salvation are in error.

Baptized into Christ....correct.

Now,...

Do we BELIEVE INTO Christ?

Or, are we BAPTIZED INTO Christ?...

Pick one.

Use scripture please.

 

[Renniks]

Baptized into Christ....correct.

Now,...

Do we BELIEVE INTO Christ?

Or, are we BAPTIZED INTO Christ?...

Pick one.

Use scripture please.

Why? Both are true.

 

[Renniks]

That is disputable.

In order to have a case you would have to contend for the idea that water baptism is not baptism.

For I would contend that baptism is three-in-one: 1) water, 2) Spirit, 3) fire;

And therefore you cannot separate water baptism from Holy Spirit baptism because there is one baptism (Ephesians 4:5).

And because there is one baptism, you cannot separate water baptism from Holy Spirit baptism unless you say that water baptism is not baptism.

11 I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance. but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire...


You are over complicating it. The Spirit baptizes, and the water is but a symbol of the internal reality of being raised with Christ.
Just as communion is a symbol of our belief in the blood redeeming us.

 

[Truther]

Why? Both are true.

I can show you a verse saying we are baptized INTO Christ.... per Romans 6

Now, you show me a verse that says we can believe INTO Christ?

 

[justbyfaith]

11 I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance. but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire...


You are over complicating it. The Spirit baptizes, and the water is but a symbol of the internal reality of being raised with Christ.
Just as communion is a symbol of our belief in the blood redeeming us.

The Holy Ghost is absolutely promised as the result of water baptism in the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth for the remission of sins (Acts of the Apostles 2:38-39).

Truly, it is what is symbolized by the water that truly saves (1 Peter 3:21)...identification with the death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus Christ...which, when we submit to the ordinance, is a confession of Jesus Christ before men.

See Matthew 10:32 and Luke 12:8 for information as to whether or not such a thing might be salvational.

 

[Truther]

The Holy Ghost is absolutely promised as the result of water baptism in the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth for the remission of sins (Acts of the Apostles 2:38-39).

Truly, it is what is symbolized by the water that truly saves (1 Peter 3:21)...identification with the death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus Christ...which, when we submit to the ordinance, is a confession of Jesus Christ before men.

See Matthew 10:32 and Luke 12:8 for information as to whether or not such a thing might be salvational.

Awesome!

 

[Renniks]

I can show you a verse saying we are baptized INTO Christ.... per Romans 6

Now, you show me a verse that says we can believe INTO Christ?

Semantics.

 

[justbyfaith]

Semantics.

That's not a verse.

 

[Renniks]

That's not a verse.

But you know what I mean. It's a useless argument about words when we know belief does make us partakers of Christ.

How many verses do you want?
For by these He has granted to us His precious and magnificent promises, so that by them you may become partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world by lust.


For we have become partakers of Christ, if we hold fast the beginning of our assurance firm until the end,

 

[justbyfaith]

But if you can't answer his question and provide a verse that speaks of believing into Christ....there goes your argument, don't you think?

 

[Truther]

Semantics.

No.

You have been going around telling folks they can "believe into" Christ.

Now produce the verse of fix your rhetoric.

 

[Renniks]

No.

You have been going around telling folks they can "believe into" Christ.

Now produce the verse of fix your rhetoric.

I don't remember using that terminology anywhere.

 

[Renniks]

But if you can't answer his question and provide a verse that speaks of believing into Christ....there goes your argument, don't you think?

No, it's everywhere in scripture.

 

[Truther]

I don't remember using that terminology anywhere.

You don't tell folks that all they have to do is believe in Christ to get into Christ?

Nearly everyone is saying that these days.

 

[justbyfaith]

You don't tell folks that all they have to do is believe in Christ to get into Christ?

Nearly everyone is saying that these days.

I would point out that according to Romans 5:1-2, we have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand;

And also, in Ephesians 1:13-14, having believed, we were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise.

 

[Renniks]

You don't tell folks that all they have to do is believe in Christ to get into Christ?

Nearly everyone is saying that these days.

Not using those terms. Belief that gets us into Christ isn't merely mental consent. Real faith includes trust, which changes our way of life and way of seeing the world and well, everything. It's spiritual, therefore through the Holy Spirit, not just head knowledge.

 

[Truther]

You don't tell folks that all they have to do is believe in Christ to get into Christ?

Nearly everyone is saying that these days.

This is the only way to get into Christ...For as many of you as were baptized into Christ have put on Christ....3 Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ ....

Nobody can "believe into" Christ.

 

[Truther]

Not using those terms. Belief that gets us into Christ isn't merely mental consent. Real faith includes trust, which changes our way of life and way of seeing the world and well, everything. It's spiritual, therefore through the Holy Spirit, not just head knowledge.

So, God only accepts REAL faith or mustard seed faith?

 

[Truther]

I would point out that according to Romans 5:1-2, we have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand;

And also, in Ephesians 1:13-14, having believed, we were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise.

That was not written to the unsaved, but Acts 2:38 adherers.

 

[Truther]

I would point out that according to Romans 5:1-2, we have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand;

And also, in Ephesians 1:13-14, having believed, we were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise.

Exactly, which is an affirmation of the saint's faith, not a new plan of salvation to skip Acts 2:38.