Discerning : The Water Cults

[justbyfaith]

Hi @Charlie24,

To believe that water baptism in Jesus' Name has no effect on salvation would be an error on your part (while Catholics baptize in titles so I would doubt where they are going, since there is none other name under heaven given among men whereby we must be saved, other than the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, Acts of the Apostles 4:10-12).

I will say that merely calling on the name of the Lord will absolutely do the trick (Romans 10:13).

While in the days of the early church, men called on the name of the Lord at the time of baptism (Acts of the Apostles 22:16).

 

[Charlie24]

Hi @Charlie24,

To believe that water baptism in Jesus' Name has no effect on salvation would be an error on your part (while Catholics baptize in titles so I would doubt where they are going, since there is none other name under heaven given among men whereby we must be saved, other than the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, Acts of the Apostles 4:10-12).

I will say that merely calling on the name of the Lord will absolutely do the trick (Romans 10:13).

While in the days of the early church, men called on the name of the Lord at the time of baptism (Acts of the Apostles 22:16).

No one in history has repented in the heart at the time of baptism.

Repenting of your sins must come first and that is when man is saved.

Then he is water baptized. It's as plain as the nose on your face in Acts 10.

So once again jbf, we firmly disagree!

 

[justbyfaith]

No one in history has repented in the heart at the time of baptism.

Repenting of your sins must come first and that is when man is saved.

Then he is water baptized. It's as plain as the nose on your face in Acts 10.

So once again jbf, we firmly disagree!

I think that, yes, dying to self must take place before you go underneath the water to be buried and then risen with Christ.

For baptism is identification with the death, burial, and resurrection of Christ; not just His burial and resurrection.

But I think I will take the kjv's word for it that baptism in Jesus' name is for the remission of sins.

I am not inclined to change my Bible in order to fit a theology that will allow me to not do something that is apparently a requirement for salvation (while in some places it can be seen that it is not a requirement; in other places it seems to be a requirement).

So then, remission of sins takes place when a man is buried and risen with Christ; and not before.

 

[Charlie24]

I think that, yes, dying to self must take place before you go underneath the water to be buried and then risen with Christ.

For baptism is identification with the death, burial, and resurrection of Christ; not just His burial and resurrection.

But I think I will take the kjv's word for it that baptism in Jesus' name is for the remission of sins.

I am not inclined to change my Bible in order to fit a theology that will allow me to not do something that is apparently a requirement for salvation (while in some places it can be seen that it is not a requirement; in other places it seems to be a requirement).

So then, remission of sins takes place when a man is buried and risen with Christ; and not before.

Well I guess Paul is a liar if you are correct. He said that with the heart man believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made into salvation. That's just the way it happened in Acts 10:44-48.

I suppose we can now just throw away our Bibles and follow you jbf.

 

[Charlie24]

Well I guess Paul is a liar if you are correct. He said that with the heart man believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made into salvation. That's just the way it happened in Acts 10:44-48.

I suppose we can now just throw away our Bibles and follow you jbf.

I think that, yes, dying to self must take place before you go underneath the water to be buried and then risen with Christ.

For baptism is identification with the death, burial, and resurrection of Christ; not just His burial and resurrection.

But I think I will take the kjv's word for it that baptism in Jesus' name is for the remission of sins.

I am not inclined to change my Bible in order to fit a theology that will allow me to not do something that is apparently a requirement for salvation (while in some places it can be seen that it is not a requirement; in other places it seems to be a requirement).

So then, remission of sins takes place when a man is buried and risen with Christ; and not before.

It took me long enough to find this verse, actually didn't think I was going to find it!

So here it is, this is when your sins are forgiven, and guess who it comes from, the same guy who quoted Acts 2:38.

Acts 3:19

"Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord."

You notice that Peter said, "Repent, that your sins may be blotted out."

What did he say in Acts 2:38, the very first thing? "Repent." That is when your sins are forgiven.

Then he said, "and be baptized..............for the remission of sins.

Do you see this? When he said "repent" the sins were forgiven.

Now "be baptized" for the remission of sins. But do you see, the sins were already forgiven at "repent."

Now put the proper translation in Acts 2:38, "because of" which the translators should have used instead of "for."

"Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ "because of " the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost."

So you see now? They are being baptized "because" their sins were already forgiven at "repent."

 

[Cooper]

Salvation requires several things. First that we believe in the Lord Jesus Christ as our Lord and Saviour. Second that we repent of our sins, and thirdly that we are baptised in the name of Jesus Christ. This was a step too far for a dyed-in-the-wool Jew. They had just crucified the Saviour of the World and to then be baptised in Christ's name was a public declaration they had renounced Judaism and had become a Christian, and this in front of their contemporaries. It would take great courage to do this. They would be ostracised by their family and Jewish friends. It would be difficult for them to find work, and they would be reduced to penury. It would take a person of great faith to go through the waters. Basically they were laying their life on the altar for God and that is the mark of a true believer.
.

 

[Philip James]

Not if they

whoa, whoa, whoa...

you said:

"That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation."

all faithful Catholic's meet that criteria... are you saying now that more is required?

Peace!

 

[Charlie24]

whoa, whoa, whoa...

you said:



all faithful Catholic's meet that criteria... are you saying now that more is required?

Peace!

You know what I have said, PJ.

 

[Cooper]

whoa, whoa, whoa...

you said:



all faithful Catholic's meet that criteria... are you saying now that more is required?

Peace!

If I may, regardless of denomination we all need to make a public declaration of our faith, and for it to be our own personal choice and decision.
.

 

[Philip James]

If I may, regardless of denomination we all need to make a public declaration of our faith, and for it to be our own personal choice and decision.
.

Hello Cooper,

And all faithful Catholic's have made such a declaration!

Peace be with you!

 

[Philip James]

You know what I have said, PJ.

That's not an answer to my question Charlie.

By the standard you yourself have proclaimed, all faithful Catholics are saved!

That should make you rejoice!

Peace!

p.s. when did the scales fall from Paul's eyes?

 

[Charlie24]

That's not an answer to my question Charlie.

By the standard you yourself have proclaimed, all faithful Catholics are saved!

That should make you rejoice!

Peace!

p.s. when did the scales fall from Paul's eyes?

I don't answer questions that I know the other person already knows.

 

[Cooper]

Hello Cooper,

And all faithful Catholic's have made such a declaration!

Peace be with you!

I did not know Catholics practised adult baptism by full immersion. Sorry.
.

 

[Philip James]

I did not know Catholics practised adult baptism by full immersion. Sorry.
.

Well of course we do. But as so many here like to point out.. The water, itself, isnt really whats important but the Spirit acting in the sacrament!

And thus, as it has been from the time if the apostles:

1. Concerning baptism, baptise thus: Having first rehearsed all these things, "baptise, in the Name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Ghost," in running water;
2. But if thou hast no running water, baptise in other water, and if thou canst not in cold, then in warm.
3. But if thou hast neither, pour water three times on the head "in the Name of the Father, Son and Holy Ghost."

~The Didache~

Peace!

 

[Philip James]

I don't answer questions that I know the other person already knows.

well I guess that ends tonight game of questions... perhaps another time

 

[justbyfaith]

Well I guess Paul is a liar if you are correct. He said that with the heart man believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made into salvation. That's just the way it happened in Acts 10:44-48.

I suppose we can now just throw away our Bibles and follow you jbf.

For the most part, in the days of the early church, men called on the name of the Lord, or confessed with their mouth that Jesus is their Lord and Saviour, at the time of baptism (Acts of the Apostles 22:16).

In Acts of the Apostles 10:44-48, they also confessed Jesus at the time of their baptism. That the Holy Ghost came upon them before this occurrence, happened because it was the only way that Gentiles were going to be accepted into the body of Christ at that time in history; because Peter was fearful of the circumcision group and therefore he would not have baptized them unless he had the perfect "excuse" to do so; which excuse he found when the Holy Ghost came upon the Gentile converts (Cornelius and friends).

It took me long enough to find this verse, actually didn't think I was going to find it!

So here it is, this is when your sins are forgiven, and guess who it comes from, the same guy who quoted Acts 2:38.

Acts 3:19

"Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord."

You notice that Peter said, "Repent, that your sins may be blotted out."

What did he say in Acts 2:38, the very first thing? "Repent." That is when your sins are forgiven.

Then he said, "and be baptized..............for the remission of sins.

Do you see this? When he said "repent" the sins were forgiven.

Now "be baptized" for the remission of sins. But do you see, the sins were already forgiven at "repent."

Now put the proper translation in Acts 2:38, "because of" which the translators should have used instead of "for."

"Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ "because of " the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost."

So you see now? They are being baptized "because" their sins were already forgiven at "repent."

In Acts of the Apostles 3:19, Peter said that their sins would be blotted out "when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord."

God knew that a persecution would immediately arise and the disciples would not be able to baptize the new converts that would believe because of that message until later.

So, the Holy Spirit said through Peter, your sins will be blotted out when the times of refreshing shall come. iow, when the apostles would be able to baptize the new converts.

 

[Charlie24]

In Acts of the Apostles 3:19, Peter said that their sins would be blotted out "when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord."

God knew that a persecution would immediately arise and the disciples would not be able to baptize the new converts that would believe because of that message until later.

So, the Holy Spirit said through Peter, your sins will be blotted out when the times of refreshing shall come. iow, when the apostles would be able to baptize the new converts.[/QUOTE]

This is when the lame man at the temple was healed and the people gathered around in amazement. Peter began to preach to them.

This has nothing to do with baptizing new converts. Where do you get this stuff from?

The times of refreshing is referring to refreshing coming from the presence of the Lord over repentance and sins forgiven.

This is the most far fetched junk I have ever heard jbf. You need more help than I thought.

 

[justbyfaith]

In Acts of the Apostles 3:19, Peter said that their sins would be blotted out "when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord."

God knew that a persecution would immediately arise and the disciples would not be able to baptize the new converts that would believe because of that message until later.

So, the Holy Spirit said through Peter, your sins will be blotted out when the times of refreshing shall come. iow, when the apostles would be able to baptize the new converts.

This is when the lame man at the temple was healed and the people gathered around in amazement. Peter began to preach to them.

This has nothing to do with baptizing new converts. Where do you get this stuff from?

The times of refreshing is referring to refreshing coming from the presence of the Lord over repentance and sins forgiven.

This is the most far fetched junk I have ever heard jbf. You need more help than I thought.[/QUOTE]

All you have to do is read the story from Acts 3:19 down...and you will see that the apostles were robbed of the opportunity to baptize the new converts that converted at the juncture of Acts 3:19.

 

[Charlie24]

This is when the lame man at the temple was healed and the people gathered around in amazement. Peter began to preach to them.

This has nothing to do with baptizing new converts. Where do you get this stuff from?

The times of refreshing is referring to refreshing coming from the presence of the Lord over repentance and sins forgiven.

This is the most far fetched junk I have ever heard jbf. You need more help than I thought.

All you have to do is read the story from Acts 3:19 down...and you will see that the apostles were robbed of the opportunity to baptize the new converts that converted at the juncture of Acts 3:19.[/QUOTE]

You've been under quite a bit of stress lately, maybe you should get some more rest, take a break from the boards and relax for while.

 

[Cooper]

Well of course we do. But as so many here like to point out.. The water, itself, isnt really whats important but the Spirit acting in the sacrament!

And thus, as it has been from the time if the apostles:

1. Concerning baptism, baptise thus: Having first rehearsed all these things, "baptise, in the Name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Ghost," in running water;
2. But if thou hast no running water, baptise in other water, and if thou canst not in cold, then in warm.
3. But if thou hast neither, pour water three times on the head "in the Name of the Father, Son and Holy Ghost."

~The Didache~

Peace!

Did the baby believe in God... Did the baby ask to be baptised of their own free will? Was it the infants decision? Had they made a choice for Christ?
.