Discerning : The Water Cults

[justbyfaith]

You've been under quite a bit of stress lately, maybe you should get some more rest, take a break from the boards and relax for while.

Is that a suggestion, like in the game of AD&D?

And, just what might have been the source of any stress?

I am actually feeling pretty good...

I do not feel as though I am experiencing too much stress.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Because one receives the Holy Spirit when one is baptised, of course.

Peace!

Yeah, when they are baptized by Jesus. Not by some priest. Spiritual baptism and water baptism are two seperate baptisms

one is the washing of regeneration spiritual circumcision performed by the hand of God

the other is a symbol, and outward testimony work of righteousness in obedience of God performed by man

water baptism no more cleanses a NT soul than physical circumcision cleaned an OT soul under the law. They both were/are symbols of the work of God in our life

 

[Eternally Grateful]

everybody's a comedian today lol...

Peace!

This is not a laughing matter my friend, people’s eternity is at stake

 

[Eternally Grateful]

According to Acts of the Apostles 2:38-39, baptism in the Spirit is provided for through baptism in water as a confession of Jesus before men in identifying with Him in His death, burial, and resurrection as someone who is seeking salvation through the Cross.

Yes, there is a Cross-accepting element to being baptized in the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth for the remission of sins.

You will be identifying with Jesus in His death on the Cross, His burial, and His resurrection; and this will place you in a position of persecution (which is very much having to do with the Cross) over the fact that you have now identified with Jesus Christ in a very profound way.

Peter did not say this, your reading a flawed English text.

been there done that with you, won’t do it again, you refuse to listen to reason

 

[Eternally Grateful]

and what then must I do to go to heaven and avoid hell?

Jesus told you in John 3 and John 4 and John 6 paul told you in Romans 10, Eph 2.

One thing is for sure, it is NOT by works of righteousness which you have done (water baptism and Eucharistic obedience any sacrament for that matter) but by Gods mercy

the tax collector was your example, he got on his knees as he became poor in spirit did he go home justified, or did the pharisee who was circumcised and performed all his works of the law (sacraments for the OT)?

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Brother,
then every single faithful Catholic is saved!

So you needn't worry about us

Christ IS risen!
Alleluia!

According to Gal 1 they believe another gospel though,

many call on the name. But their faith is not in the name, but in their sacraments and church.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Not if they add water baptism as necessary for salvation along with grace through faith in Christ!

The blood of Christ doesn't need water to save, I've just shown you that!

To say it does is a slap in the face of God, you are declaring His Son's death on the cross wasn't enough!

They add much more than that brother.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

No one in history has repented in the heart at the time of baptism.

Repenting of your sins must come first and that is when man is saved.

Then he is water baptized. It's as plain as the nose on your face in Acts 10.

So once again jbf, we firmly disagree!

That’s exactly what Peter said, he said to everyone, repent and you will recieve the gift of the spirit, and on account of remmision of sin, be baptized

 

[Eternally Grateful]

It took me long enough to find this verse, actually didn't think I was going to find it!

So here it is, this is when your sins are forgiven, and guess who it comes from, the same guy who quoted Acts 2:38.

Acts 3:19

"Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord."

You notice that Peter said, "Repent, that your sins may be blotted out."

What did he say in Acts 2:38, the very first thing? "Repent." That is when your sins are forgiven.

Then he said, "and be baptized..............for the remission of sins.

Do you see this? When he said "repent" the sins were forgiven.

Now "be baptized" for the remission of sins. But do you see, the sins were already forgiven at "repent."

Now put the proper translation in Acts 2:38, "because of" which the translators should have used instead of "for."

"Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ "because of " the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost."

So you see now? They are being baptized "because" their sins were already forgiven at "repent."

If you look in the Greek, the word repent and be baptized are in two different forms, one command is to everyone, the other is to only select people, when you look up the modifying phrase, you find remission of sin goes with be baptized. Then as yu day, into or for can mean either on account of, or in order to recieve, it is used both ways in scripture, in this case, as you said, since remission of sin came based solely on repentance and faith, in this case we must is “on account of” as the proper interpretation.

 

[Cooper]

Peter did not say this, your reading a flawed English text.

been there done that with you, won’t do it again, you refuse to listen to reason

What is corrupted about Acts 2:38 EG?
.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

If I may, regardless of denomination we all need to make a public declaration of our faith, and for it to be our own personal choice and decision.
.

So god requires us to do this before he saves us? What if we die before we are able?

 

[Eternally Grateful]

That's not an answer to my question Charlie.

By the standard you yourself have proclaimed, all faithful Catholics are saved!

That should make you rejoice!

Peace!

p.s. when did the scales fall from Paul's eyes?

That would be true, if Catholics did not add things to that to the means to eternal life.
You know that is not what happens, why can’t you be honest?

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Well of course we do. But as so many here like to point out.. The water, itself, isnt really whats important but the Spirit acting in the sacrament!

And thus, as it has been from the time if the apostles:

1. Concerning baptism, baptise thus: Having first rehearsed all these things, "baptise, in the Name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Ghost," in running water;
2. But if thou hast no running water, baptise in other water, and if thou canst not in cold, then in warm.
3. But if thou hast neither, pour water three times on the head "in the Name of the Father, Son and Holy Ghost."

~The Didache~

Peace!

There is a better way

let God baptize you in the spirit, then find water that you may be baptized. In obedience to Gods command

there is one faith, one baptism,

John indeed baptized with water, but he will baptized with the Holy Spirit, he is not a human priest.

and if we are not baptized with the spirit, we will be baptized with Fire.
We have no choice, we will be baptized by God no matter what form of water baptism, if any, we recieve

 

[Eternally Grateful]

In Acts of the Apostles 3:19, Peter said that their sins would be blotted out "when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord."

God knew that a persecution would immediately arise and the disciples would not be able to baptize the new converts that would believe because of that message until later.

So, the Holy Spirit said through Peter, your sins will be blotted out when the times of refreshing shall come. iow, when the apostles would be able to baptize the new converts.

This is when the lame man at the temple was healed and the people gathered around in amazement. Peter began to preach to them.

This has nothing to do with baptizing new converts. Where do you get this stuff from?

The times of refreshing is referring to refreshing coming from the presence of the Lord over repentance and sins forgiven.

This is the most far fetched junk I have ever heard jbf. You need more help than I thought.[/QUOTE]
That’s why I just skip his posts. Good luck talking with him

 

[Cooper]

So god requires us to do this before he saves us? What if we die before we are able?

NO. Baptism is a public demonstration of our faith. Meaning we already believe and are saved
.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

What is corrupted about Acts 2:38 EG?
.

The way it is written in English makes it appear Peter is saying to repent and be baptized to recieve the gift of the spirit and remmision of sin, which is not what he said

 

[Eternally Grateful]

NO. Baptism is a public demonstration of our faith. Meaning we already believe and are saved
.

Ok forgive me I misunderstood you

 

[Cooper]

There is a better way

let God baptize you in the spirit, then find water that you may be baptized. In obedience to Gods command

there is one faith, one baptism,

John indeed baptized with water, but he will baptized with the Holy Spirit, he is not a human priest.

and if we are not baptized with the spirit, we will be baptized with Fire.
We have no choice, we will be baptized by God no matter what form of water baptism, if any, we recieve

Baptism in water comes First.
.

 

[Cooper]

The way it is written in English makes it appear Peter is saying to repent and be baptized to recieve the gift of the spirit and remmision of sin, which is not what he said

OK, I thought he used the King James.
.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Baptism in water comes First.
.

it comes before baptism in the spirit?