Discerning : The Water Cults

[Eternally Grateful]

Haha, more questions...

No sorry, your turn. I believe the question was

'can one knowingly reject the Grace of God and yet live?'

Or something to that effect...

Pax!

One who knowingly rejects the grace of God has never been saved

whoever believes is not condemned, whoever does not believe is condemned already.

you should know this

yur claiming grace is given through sacramental works of obedience, I am asking how an OT person was saved without sacramental works of obedience, again can you please answer.

I am trying to make a point, why is it harder for you than it was for david? In fact, how did david get re-saved after he committed murder and adultry(some call it rape). Where was his Eucharist, his confession, and his act of penance?

 

[Eternally Grateful]

And this HE said concerning the SPIRIT . Yes indeed . LET THE KING be praised .
And let us remember , Be hearers and doers of the Word . So if JESUS taught it we heed it .

Yes,

that was was not physical water, it was the waters of baptism,

it was a spiritual water, that NEVER lost its power to refresh, who drank of that water would never thirst again,

in other words, they would never need that water again, just like in John 6. They would never need to eat again, because that FOOD endured to eternal life, forever. They would never need to eat or drink again

 

[Behold]

Hey behold. We agree on something. He was baptized because he had to fulfill the Law. Wanna know why else he was baptized?

The baptism of Jesus gave the first example that we are to follow.

You can be water baptized 234 times and go straight to hell after you die.

Why is that?

Because you are not "born again".

Jesus said... "you MUST be born again"..

This is not possible by water, but only by God giving you the new birth.

This does not happen by water, as the water cults teach.
It happens by: Grace through Faith,......>"Abraham BELIEVED GOD, and it was counted to him as Righteousness".

God accepts faith to give you the "Gift of Righteousness".

Water has no part in this, and never can.......as water is just water.

 

[Behold]

Here is, in context, what I said of which you PARTIALLY QUOTED: When one is properly baptized via the trinitarian method the Spirit descends upon them in that baptism. Just like what happened to Jesus.

Teaching that water is required to be born again makes you "look" like a heretic.
Believing it proves you are..
So, that is not being "petty", that is being "deceived".

 

[Behold]

Kiddo is an enduring term when it comes from me but I will respect your wishes.

What I don’t have respect for is people who don’t take responsibility for their hurtful, condescending and degrading words. And when they are called out on it, like i did to you, they go on the attack instead of apologizing. But that, once again, shows what type of person you are. Of which I am beginning not to like.Here is an update for you. I have a lot of grace and I will probably continue to ignore your unchristian like behavior. However, He wont ignore it.If you are a grown man, act like one.

Come now...
You are a typical Catholic who likes to abuse then accuse others of reacting.
That's a game for children.
Grow up.

Here is the thing.....Im obliged to respond to you anytime i read where you again try to replace the Cross with water cult deception.

Listen, you accuse me of not giving you respect, while you label me without any evidence.
So, when you deserve respect based on your behavior, i can supply it.
Should i hold my breath?
I think so...
See Your own behavior defines you as "petty" and immature.
Keep in mind, you are involved with a cursed religious organization. Galatians 1:8 that worships in a false way, and teaches in a deceptive way.
That you dont enjoy knowing this, is a good first step toward enlightenment.
I hope you make it.

 

[Behold]

And here we have the crux of our disagreement.
The Sacraments are not shadows, they are the real deal.

The Sacraments are a symbolic ritual that we should observe.
However, we are not to fall prey to a water cult deception that teaches that water, bread, and juice, are LITERAL, regarding what God has Actually Provided 2000 yrs ago, as HIMSELF on THE Cross.
Its interesting that the worst fake christian cults always replace the literal with the symbolic.

 

[Behold]

---------

 

[Behold]

Lol behold,

Men who denied the ancient teaching of The Church and thought The Church needed to be reformed created the water cult. Don’t you know your own Christian history?

Here is the literal Christian History..

Your water cult switched one "queen of heaven" for another.
This happened in 5ad-ish, when the "cult of the virgin" who is Diana the Ephesus Pagan Goddess, known then and now as the "virgin goddess" and "queen of heaven",.... your water cult took this "religion of the pagans" and blended it with some verses in The Revelation, and created a whole new man made deception that you follow and don't realize.
I do.

Here is some more history for you.
The Father of Gnosticism, is Valentinus. He was a warped disciple of a student of Paul. This religious nut job almost became a POPE.
So, how did that happen?
You should find out.
See....You are the one who should "check the history" of your "cult of the Virgin".
All you have to do is actually want to know the truth.
Till then.
You'll stay right where you are..

 

[amigo de christo]

Yes,

that was was not physical water, it was the waters of baptism,

it was a spiritual water, that NEVER lost its power to refresh, who drank of that water would never thirst again,

in other words, they would never need that water again, just like in John 6. They would never need to eat again, because that FOOD endured to eternal life, forever. They would never need to eat or drink again

Very true my friend . For many have been water baptized and yet they do not truly know Christ .
Let us continue on doing all things our Lord did teach and command . And let us always thank the Lord .
I would tell anyone who believes to also get water baptized . Let us just do all things with hope in our Heart unto the Lord .

 

[Philip James]

I am trying to make a point, why is it harder for you than it was for david?

Is it?
'to whom much has been given, much is expected'

In fact, how did david get re-saved after he committed murder and adultry(some call it rape). Where was his Eucharist, his confession, and his act of penance?

The Eucharist had not yet been instituted of course, but as for his confessions and acts of penance see Psalm 51 and 2Sam 24

Peace be with you!

 

[Philip James]

Teaching that water is required to be born again makes you "look" like a heretic.
Believing it proves you are..
So, that is not being "petty", that is being "deceived".

Brother, teaching contrary to 2000 years of the faith and practice of the Church in no way qualifies one to label anyone else a heretic.. (do you even know the meaning of the word?)

Peace!

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Very true my friend . For many have been water baptized and yet they do not truly know Christ .
Let us continue on doing all things our Lord did teach and command . And let us always thank the Lord .
I would tell anyone who believes to also get water baptized . Let us just do all things with hope in our Heart unto the Lord .

We should obey all Gods commands. Not just one.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Is it?
'to whom much has been given, much is expected'

Well David did not have to go through all those sacraments. In fact did he have a means of grace? It appears not from what you have been saying. Only your church was given them David had the law given by God himself. And it meant nothing. He could do all those works and nothing

The Eucharist had not yet been instituted of course, but as for his confessions and acts of penance see Psalm 51 and 2Sam 24

Peace be with you!

What about baptism and the rest? How were David’s sins removed and who was authorized to forgive them since he had no priest ?

 

[Charlie24]

Brother, teaching contrary to 2000 years of the faith and practice of the Church in no way qualifies one to label anyone else a heretic.. (do you even know the meaning of the word?)

Peace!

Around 500 years ago we separated ourselves from the works of the Church!

We believe man is justified by faith, not through the many demands of the Church!

 

[theefaith]

Except she is talking about the Catholic Church;

And I believe that you are talking about the body of Christ: which consists of all those who believe in Christ unto salvation.

consists of all those who believe in Christ unto salvation. not biblical

1 Corinthians 12:13
For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

Galatians 3:27
For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.

 

[Charlie24]

luther declares the sole authority is the Bible therefore he declare himself to be no authority on anything in any way whatsoever!
besides this Christ builds the church Matt 16:18 on the apostles eph 2:20 luther is no apostles

Neither is the Pope an apostle! But he declares supreme authority over scripture! Luther didn't do that!

 

[theefaith]

Neither is the Pope an apostle! But he declares supreme authority over scripture! Luther didn't do that!

the successors of the apostles are apostles

they have absolute authority as Christ and the Bible say
Matt 28:18 matt 16:18 matt 18:18
All authority
Whatsoever you (the apostles) bind on earth is bound in heaven

 

[Charlie24]

the successors of the apostles are apostles

they have absolute authority as Christ and the Bible say
Matt 28:18 matt 16:18 matt 18:18
All authority
Whatsoever you (the apostles) bind on earth is bound in heaven

Show me in scripture where any one man has authority over scripture as the Pope has claimed.

He has made himself an abomination to God!

 

[theefaith]

Show me in scripture where any one man has authority over scripture as the Pope has claimed.

He has made himself an abomination to God!

matt 16:18 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.

19 And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.

whatsoever includes everything and anything

Matt 28:18
And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power (authority) is given unto me in heaven and in earth.

19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:

he bestowed this power on Peter and the apostles and their successors

Acts 5:1
But a certain man named Ananias, with Sapphira his wife, sold a possession,

2 And kept back part of the price, his wife also being privy to it, and brought a certain part, and laid it at the apostles' feet.

3 But Peter said, Ananias, why hath Satan filled thine heart to lie to the Holy Ghost, and to keep back part of the price of the land?

4 Whiles it remained, was it not thine own? and after it was sold, was it not in thine own power? why hast thou conceived this thing in thine heart? thou hast not lied unto men, but unto God.

5 And Ananias hearing these words fell down, and gave up the ghost: and great fear came on all them that heard these things.

6 And the young men arose, wound him up, and carried him out, and buried him.

7 And it was about the space of three hours after, when his wife, not knowing what was done, came in.

8 And Peter answered unto her, Tell me whether ye sold the land for so much? And she said, Yea, for so much.

9 Then Peter said unto her, How is it that ye have agreed together to tempt the Spirit of the Lord? behold, the feet of them which have buried thy husband are at the door, and shall carry thee out.

10 Then fell she down straightway at his feet, and yielded up the ghost: and the young men came in, and found her dead, and, carrying her forth, buried her by her husband.

11 And great fear came upon all the church, and upon as many as heard these things.

12 And by the hands of the apostles were many signs and wonders wrought among the people; (and they were all with one accord in Solomon's porch.

 

[theefaith]

Show me in scripture where any one man has authority over scripture as the Pope has claimed.

He has made himself an abomination to God!

what authority does Christ have?
What mission does Christ have?
What ministry does Christ have?
What power does Christ have?

Peter and the apostles and their successors have the same! Jn 20:21-23

matt 5:21 Ye have heard that it was said of them of old time, Thou shalt not kill; and whosoever shall kill shall be in danger of the judgment:

22 But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire.

Christ has the authority to make the commandments more strict