Do We Still Have A Sin Nature...

[ChristisGod]

...and yet followers of the Way do commit acts of sin, where does that come from?
Christians who have been born from above are committing "acts" of sin, is this possible, or not?

There was only one sinless human that ever walked this earth and He just so happened to be God Incarnate.

Until the Resurrection of the saints all will struggle at one time or another with the flesh, sin and the devil. We all stuble and fall in many different ways. We are not sinless but believers do sin- less.

hope this helps !!!

 

[Johann]

There was only one sinless human that ever walked this earth and He just so happened to be God Incarnate.

Until the Resurrection of the saints all will struggle at one time or another with the flesh, sin and the devil. We all stuble and fall in many different ways. We are not sinless but believers do sin- less.

hope this helps !!!

Absolutely! Hi Christophany.

 

[Fool4Jesus]

Hi Christophany . Yes Saints that sin less I haven't heard that one in a while but it is so true.

If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness (Habitual sin), we lie, and do not the truth:
7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.
8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us. 1 John 1:6/10

I think they're playing my song:
I keep trying to find a life
On my own, apart from You
I am the king of excuses
I've got one for every selfish thing I do

What's going on inside of me?
I despise my own behavior
This only serves to confirm my suspicions
That I'm still a man in need of a Savior

[chorus]
I wanna be in the Light
As You are in the Light
I wanna shine like the stars in the heavens
Oh, Lord be my Light and be my salvation
Cause all I want is to be in the Light
All I want is to be in the Light

The disease of self runs through my blood
It's a cancer fatal to my soul
Every attempt on my behalf has failed
To bring this sickness under control

Tell me, what's going on inside of me?
I despise my own behavior
This only serves to confirm my suspicions
That I'm still a man in need of a Savior

 

[Blue Dragonfly's]

Question
Christ was sinless and His righteousness is imputed unto us, does it mean His sinlessness was also imputed to us?

When we are indwelt by the holy spirit we are saints,having been redeemed from the fallen condemned sinner state.

 

[Blue Dragonfly's]

...and yet followers of the Way do commit acts of sin, where does that come from?
Christians who have been born from above are committing "acts" of sin, is this possible, or not?

What's God tell you?

 

[Blue Dragonfly's]

No, you misunderstand.....it was not before Adam and his wife’s creation, but “the founding of the world” was the birth of their children...who were plunged into a perpetual cycle of sin and death through no fault on their part. It was for these ones that Christ came to offer his life. With the first righteous man (Abel) "the book of life" began to be written.



In some places in the Hebrew Scriptures the words ʼEl (the singular form of the word “God”) and ʼElo·himʹ (the plural form of excellence of the word “God”) are used one after the other. Thus at Joshua 22:22 and Psalms 50:1 the Hebrew text reads “ʼEl ʼElo·himʹ Yeho·wahʹ”. While some translations simply transliterate the first two words of this phrase, others render them as “the God of gods” (AT, JB)

ASV renders those verses....
“The Mighty One, God, Jehovah, the Mighty One, God, Jehovah, he knoweth; and Israel he shall know: if it be in rebellion, or if in trespass against Jehovah (save thou us not this day)” (Joshua 22:22)

“The Mighty One, God, Jehovah, hath spoken, And called the earth from the rising of the sun unto the going down thereof." (Psalm 50:1)

The Jews never considered Yahweh (Jehovah) to be a polytheistic god.
Polytheism is evidence of false worship. Christendom's god is three, not one.
The plural in those verses is the 'plural of excellence'.....like the “Royal We” used by the monarchy.

I'll stay with what the scripture says.

 

[Johann]

When we are indwelt by the holy spirit we are saints,having been redeemed from the fallen condemned sinner state.

Great
Then what do you make of this

Php_3:12 Not as though I had already attained, either were already perfect: but I follow after, if that I may apprehend that for which also I am apprehended of Christ Jesus.

1Jn_5:16 If any man see his brother sin a sin which is not unto death, he shall ask, and he shall give him life for them that sin not unto death. There is a sin unto death: I do not say that he shall pray for it.


1Jn_1:8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.

1Ki_8:46 If they sin against thee, (for there is no man that sinneth not,) and thou be angry with them, and deliver them to the enemy, so that they carry them away captives unto the land of the enemy, far or near;

2Ch_6:36 If they sin against thee, (for there is no man which sinneth not,) and thou be angry with them, and deliver them over before their enemies, and they carry them away captives unto a land far off or near;

Ecc_7:20 For there is not a just man upon earth, that doeth good, and sinneth not.

Same question to you
Is the flesh born again [valid question]

 

[Peterlag]

Question

Are you both a sinner and a saint? Or, are you a saint who sometimes sins? According to Romans 6, you are a saint who sometimes sins.

I don't think you can sin if you are in him. It's the "in him" that nobody seems to understand. Note the words "in him" from Romans 8:1-2

There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.

 

[Peterlag]

Yes we as Christians still... have a sin nature, and it's built into our flesh. In Romans 7 Paul pointed to it with the phrase "law of sin" in his fleshy members. Later modern New Testament revisions try to confuse this issue with philosophical terms like "sin nature" (NIV), but the reality is that via our flesh is the bounds that God set for us during this present world. Our flesh represents imperfection, and it always will, until we are done with it either at flesh death, or at the 'change' on the "last trump" with Christ's future return.

How do we as Christian then deal with this? Per 1 John 1, we are to repent to Christ of FUTURE SINS we may find ourselves doing, and get back to serving Christ Jesus. And repentance means doing our best not to do it again. We all struggle with bad habits, and with some bad habits it takes a while to break, but Lord Jesus can help us break it, but it takes discipline and Faith and prayer. The opposite of that are those listening to the devil's workers that say after having believed on Jesus and been baptized, we never need to repent of sins ever again.

I do not believe we have a sin nature. Every single person I know has told me about Romans 7 when I tell them I do not believe Paul taught about a "sin nature" for the Christian. What Paul talks about in the seventh chapter of Romans is what occurs to the believer who still thinks the Law applies to them. They end up spiritually dying by the commandment and realize that the commandment does not produce life. The war is with their flesh because they are still believing the Law has power over them. In the eighth chapter of Romans is where it explains how we overcome this whole issue by living in the spirit and being dead to the Law. We cannot live by faith in what Christ has done for us and still think our obedience to written laws are necessary. To do so takes away from the perfect work of Christ and places salvation and righteousness back in our own hands. 1 John was not talking to the Christian in the way that you think.

John is warning believers that some had infiltrated the Church with the false doctrine of Gnosticism. He addresses both genuine Christians and Gnostics in the same letter. The Gnostics claimed that a truly enlightened man would have a superior spiritual knowledge. In fact, the word "gnosis" means "to know." They taught an enlightened man would realize all matter is evil and man is spirit and pure because what is spirit is not matter. They argued that Jesus was a phantom and did not die on the cross since you cannot kill a spirit. John responds with "That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen, with our eyes, which we have looked upon, and our hands have handled, the Word of life." John has made it clear that Jesus was no phantom spirit. He was real, and he was flesh, and he died on that cross for our sins.

John then transitions into dealing with the Gnostic doctrine of sin that claimed sin could not permeate spirit and so they could sin with impunity since sin could not taint their spirit. One of their favorite illustrations was an image of a ring of pure gold that was embedded in a pile of dung. They pointed out that the ring, although surrounded by dung, still remains pure. The dung does not permeate the ring in any way whatsoever. Thus, they argued sin cannot defile the spirit. The Gnostics saw themselves as enlightened and as possessing a superior higher knowledge, and John was disdained by this group. Many claimed they knew God, abided in Christ, and were in the light.

In verse six, John exposes the false doctrine of the Gnostic infiltrators. They claimed the truth was they could walk in darkness and continue to fellowship with God. John counters the Gnostic heresy in verse seven by stating the true Christian doctrine. He says that only if they walk in the light as God is in the light. Then and only then can the blood of Jesus Christ cleanse them from all sin. In verse eight, John claims that they are deceived in thinking they had no sin for the blood of Jesus Christ to cleanse away. John then states the remedy to their error by telling them God will forgive if they confess their sins. He also continues on to talk about the removal of sin in their lives by asserting that along with this forgiveness, God will cleanse them from ALL unrighteousness.

Verse ten states that if we do not feel that we have sins to be cleansed of, because we do not believe we ever sinned, then we would be calling God a liar. The Apostle John is fighting against the error of Gnosticism and not legalism. Nothing within this context would give us the warrant to believe John's words in verses eight and ten are to Christians. Scripture never contradicts Scripture. This is the basic law of hermeneutics. This principle must be even more so if we compare the work of one writer. The most solid proof that John is not saying that Christians sin is contained within this very letter. In verse 7 John tells us that Christians are cleansed from all sin. If ALL SIN is cleansed, how can there be anything left? In Chapter 2:1 he states the purpose of his letter "My little children, these things write I unto you, that you sin not."

This is plain on its own, but the Greek says "that you may not have a sin once." In chapter 3:8-9 we are told plainly that "he who sins is of the devil" and "Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin." To make verse 1:8 say that John admitted sin in Christians and himself while he claimed to be walking in the light is to make him the most self-contradictory writer to be found in all of secular and sacred writing! How can one say we must sin because we are saved, but then we are not saved if we do violate the commandments of Christ (2:4). That we can be of the devil and of the Lord at the same time. "If we say we have no sin" is referring to an unregenerate person who declares they have no sin to be forgiven and therefore no guilt to wash away. It was the Gnostic belief that they had no sin.

 

[Johann]

I do not believe we have a sin nature. Every single person I know has told me about Romans 7 when I tell them I do not believe Paul taught about a "sin nature" for the Christian. What Paul talks about in the seventh chapter of Romans is what occurs to the believer who still thinks the Law applies to them. They end up spiritually dying by the commandment and realize that the commandment does not produce life. The war is with their flesh because they are still believing the Law has power over them. In the eighth chapter of Romans is where it explains how we overcome this whole issue by living in the spirit and being dead to the Law. We cannot live by faith in what Christ has done for us and still think our obedience to written laws are necessary. To do so takes away from the perfect work of Christ and places salvation and righteousness back in our own hands. 1 John was not talking to the Christian in the way that you think.

John is warning believers that some had infiltrated the Church with the false doctrine of Gnosticism. He addresses both genuine Christians and Gnostics in the same letter. The Gnostics claimed that a truly enlightened man would have a superior spiritual knowledge. In fact, the word "gnosis" means "to know." They taught an enlightened man would realize all matter is evil and man is spirit and pure because what is spirit is not matter. They argued that Jesus was a phantom and did not die on the cross since you cannot kill a spirit. John responds with "That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen, with our eyes, which we have looked upon, and our hands have handled, the Word of life." John has made it clear that Jesus was no phantom spirit. He was real, and he was flesh, and he died on that cross for our sins.

John then transitions into dealing with the Gnostic doctrine of sin that claimed sin could not permeate spirit and so they could sin with impunity since sin could not taint their spirit. One of their favorite illustrations was an image of a ring of pure gold that was embedded in a pile of dung. They pointed out that the ring, although surrounded by dung, still remains pure. The dung does not permeate the ring in any way whatsoever. Thus, they argued sin cannot defile the spirit. The Gnostics saw themselves as enlightened and as possessing a superior higher knowledge, and John was disdained by this group. Many claimed they knew God, abided in Christ, and were in the light.

In verse six, John exposes the false doctrine of the Gnostic infiltrators. They claimed the truth was they could walk in darkness and continue to fellowship with God. John counters the Gnostic heresy in verse seven by stating the true Christian doctrine. He says that only if they walk in the light as God is in the light. Then and only then can the blood of Jesus Christ cleanse them from all sin. In verse eight, John claims that they are deceived in thinking they had no sin for the blood of Jesus Christ to cleanse away. John then states the remedy to their error by telling them God will forgive if they confess their sins. He also continues on to talk about the removal of sin in their lives by asserting that along with this forgiveness, God will cleanse them from ALL unrighteousness.

Verse ten states that if we do not feel that we have sins to be cleansed of, because we do not believe we ever sinned, then we would be calling God a liar. The Apostle John is fighting against the error of Gnosticism and not legalism. Nothing within this context would give us the warrant to believe John's words in verses eight and ten are to Christians. Scripture never contradicts Scripture. This is the basic law of hermeneutics. This principle must be even more so if we compare the work of one writer. The most solid proof that John is not saying that Christians sin is contained within this very letter. In verse 7 John tells us that Christians are cleansed from all sin. If ALL SIN is cleansed, how can there be anything left? In Chapter 2:1 he states the purpose of his letter "My little children, these things write I unto you, that you sin not."

This is plain on its own, but the Greek says "that you may not have a sin once." In chapter 3:8-9 we are told plainly that "he who sins is of the devil" and "Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin." To make verse 1:8 say that John admitted sin in Christians and himself while he claimed to be walking in the light is to make him the most self-contradictory writer to be found in all of secular and sacred writing! How can one say we must sin because we are saved, but then we are not saved if we do violate the commandments of Christ (2:4). That we can be of the devil and of the Lord at the same time. "If we say we have no sin" is referring to an unregenerate person who declares they have no sin to be forgiven and therefore no guilt to wash away. It was the Gnostic belief that they had no sin.

I think Vincent summed it up correctely


That we have no sin
Ὅτι that, may be taken merely as a mark of quotation: “If we say, sin we have not.” On the phrase to have sin, see on Joh_16:22, and compare have fellowship, 1Jn_1:3. Sin (ἁμαρτίαν) is not to be understood of original sin, or of sin before conversion, but generally. “It is obvious that this ἔχειν ἁμαρτίαν (to have sin), is infinitely diversified, according to the successive measure of the purification and development of the new man. Even the apostle John does not exclude himself from the universal if we say” (Ebrard).
Heathen authors say very little about sin, and classic paganism had little or no conception of sin in the Gospel sense. The nearest approach to it was by Plato, from whose works a tolerably complete doctrinal statement might be gathered of the origin, nature, and effects of sin. The fundamental idea of ἁμαρτία (sin) among the Greeks is physical; the missing of a mark (see on Mat_1:21; see on Mat_6:14); from which it develops into a metaphysical meaning, to wander in the understanding. This assumes knowledge as the basis of goodness; and sin, therefore, is, primarily, ignorance. In the Platonic conception of sin, intellectual error is the prominent element. Thus: “What then, I said, is the result of all this? Is not this the result - that other things are indifferent, and that wisdom is the only good, and ignorance the only evil?” (“Euthydemus,” 281). “The business of the founders of the state will be to compel the best minds to attain that knowledge which has been already declared by us to be the greatest of all - they must continue to rise until they arrive at the good” (“Republic,” vii., 519). Plato represents sin as the dominance of the lower impulses of the soul, which is opposed to nature and to God (see “Laws,” ix., 863. “Republic,” i., 351). Or again, as an inward want of harmony. “May we not regard every living being as a puppet of the gods, either their plaything only or created with a purpose - which of the two we cannot certainly know? But this we know, that these affections in us are like cords and strings which pull us different and opposite ways, and to opposite actions; and herein lies the difference between virtue and vice” (“Laws,” i., 644). He traces most sins to the influence of the body on the soul. “In this present life, I reckon that we make the nearest approach to knowledge when we have the least possible communion or fellowship with the body, and are not infected with the bodily nature, but remain pure until the hour when God himself is pleased to release us. And then the foolishness of the body will be cleared away, and we shall be pure, and hold converse with other pure souls, and know of ourselves the clear light everywhere, which is no other than the light of truth” (“Phedo,” 67).
We find in the classical writers, however, the occasional sense of the universal faultiness of mankind, though even Plato furnishes scarcely any traces of accepting the doctrine of innate depravity. Thus Theognis: “The sun beholds no wholly good and virtuous man among those who are now living” (615). “But having become good, to remain in a good state and be good, is not possible, and is not granted to man. God only has this blessing; but man cannot help being bad when the force of circumstances overpowers him” (Plato, “Protagoras,” 344). “ How, then: is it possible to be sinless? It is impossible; but this is possible, to strive not to sin” (“Epictetus,” iv., 12, 19).
We deceive ourselves (ἑαυτοὺς πλανῶμεν)
Lit., we lead ourselves astray. See on Mar_7:24; see on Mat_27:63, Mat_27:64; see on Jud_1:13. Not only do we err, we are responsible for it. The phrase only here in the New Testament. For the verb as applied to deceivers of various kinds, see Mat_24:4; Rev_2:20; Rev_13:14; Rev_19:20; Rev_12:9; Rev_20:3. Compare πλάνοι deceivers (2Jn_1:7); πλάνη error (Jud_1:11; 1Jn_4:6).
The truth
The whole Gospel. All reality is in God. He is the only true God (ἀληθινός Joh_17:3; see on Joh_1:9). This reality is incarnated in Christ, the Word of God, “the very image of His substance,” and in His message to men. This message is the truth, a title not found in the Synoptists, Acts, or Revelation, but in the Catholic Epistles (Jas_5:19; 1Pe_1:22; 2Pe_2:2), and in Paul (2Co_8:8; Eph_1:13, etc.). It is especially characteristic of the Gospel and Epistles of John. The truth is represented by John objectively and subjectively.

 

[Blue Dragonfly's]

WUOTE="Johann, post: 1400914, member: 18257"]Great
Then what do you make of this

Php_3:12 Not as though I had already attained, either were already perfect: but I follow after, if that I may apprehend that for which also I am apprehended of Christ Jesus.

1Jn_5:16 If any man see his brother sin a sin which is not unto death, he shall ask, and he shall give him life for them that sin not unto death. There is a sin unto death: I do not say that he shall pray for it.


1Jn_1:8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.

1Ki_8:46 If they sin against thee, (for there is no man that sinneth not,) and thou be angry with them, and deliver them to the enemy, so that they carry them away captives unto the land of the enemy, far or near;

2Ch_6:36 If they sin against thee, (for there is no man which sinneth not,) and thou be angry with them, and deliver them over before their enemies, and they carry them away captives unto a land far off or near;

Ecc_7:20 For there is not a just man upon earth, that doeth good, and sinneth not.

Same question to you
Is the flesh born again [valid question][/QUOTE]
What I make of it is that context is lost with those excerpted verses.

 

[Peterlag]

I think Vincent summed it up correctely


That we have no sin
Ὅτι that, may be taken merely as a mark of quotation: “If we say, sin we have not.” On the phrase to have sin, see on Joh_16:22, and compare have fellowship, 1Jn_1:3. Sin (ἁμαρτίαν) is not to be understood of original sin, or of sin before conversion, but generally. “It is obvious that this ἔχειν ἁμαρτίαν (to have sin), is infinitely diversified, according to the successive measure of the purification and development of the new man. Even the apostle John does not exclude himself from the universal if we say” (Ebrard).
Heathen authors say very little about sin, and classic paganism had little or no conception of sin in the Gospel sense. The nearest approach to it was by Plato, from whose works a tolerably complete doctrinal statement might be gathered of the origin, nature, and effects of sin. The fundamental idea of ἁμαρτία (sin) among the Greeks is physical; the missing of a mark (see on Mat_1:21; see on Mat_6:14); from which it develops into a metaphysical meaning, to wander in the understanding. This assumes knowledge as the basis of goodness; and sin, therefore, is, primarily, ignorance. In the Platonic conception of sin, intellectual error is the prominent element. Thus: “What then, I said, is the result of all this? Is not this the result - that other things are indifferent, and that wisdom is the only good, and ignorance the only evil?” (“Euthydemus,” 281). “The business of the founders of the state will be to compel the best minds to attain that knowledge which has been already declared by us to be the greatest of all - they must continue to rise until they arrive at the good” (“Republic,” vii., 519). Plato represents sin as the dominance of the lower impulses of the soul, which is opposed to nature and to God (see “Laws,” ix., 863. “Republic,” i., 351). Or again, as an inward want of harmony. “May we not regard every living being as a puppet of the gods, either their plaything only or created with a purpose - which of the two we cannot certainly know? But this we know, that these affections in us are like cords and strings which pull us different and opposite ways, and to opposite actions; and herein lies the difference between virtue and vice” (“Laws,” i., 644). He traces most sins to the influence of the body on the soul. “In this present life, I reckon that we make the nearest approach to knowledge when we have the least possible communion or fellowship with the body, and are not infected with the bodily nature, but remain pure until the hour when God himself is pleased to release us. And then the foolishness of the body will be cleared away, and we shall be pure, and hold converse with other pure souls, and know of ourselves the clear light everywhere, which is no other than the light of truth” (“Phedo,” 67).
We find in the classical writers, however, the occasional sense of the universal faultiness of mankind, though even Plato furnishes scarcely any traces of accepting the doctrine of innate depravity. Thus Theognis: “The sun beholds no wholly good and virtuous man among those who are now living” (615). “But having become good, to remain in a good state and be good, is not possible, and is not granted to man. God only has this blessing; but man cannot help being bad when the force of circumstances overpowers him” (Plato, “Protagoras,” 344). “ How, then: is it possible to be sinless? It is impossible; but this is possible, to strive not to sin” (“Epictetus,” iv., 12, 19).
We deceive ourselves (ἑαυτοὺς πλανῶμεν)
Lit., we lead ourselves astray. See on Mar_7:24; see on Mat_27:63, Mat_27:64; see on Jud_1:13. Not only do we err, we are responsible for it. The phrase only here in the New Testament. For the verb as applied to deceivers of various kinds, see Mat_24:4; Rev_2:20; Rev_13:14; Rev_19:20; Rev_12:9; Rev_20:3. Compare πλάνοι deceivers (2Jn_1:7); πλάνη error (Jud_1:11; 1Jn_4:6).
The truth
The whole Gospel. All reality is in God. He is the only true God (ἀληθινός Joh_17:3; see on Joh_1:9). This reality is incarnated in Christ, the Word of God, “the very image of His substance,” and in His message to men. This message is the truth, a title not found in the Synoptists, Acts, or Revelation, but in the Catholic Epistles (Jas_5:19; 1Pe_1:22; 2Pe_2:2), and in Paul (2Co_8:8; Eph_1:13, etc.). It is especially characteristic of the Gospel and Epistles of John. The truth is represented by John objectively and subjectively.

It's the "in him" that nobody seems to understand. What I write is for those who are in Christ. You cannot understand my writings if you are walking by the flesh.

Romans 8:1-2

There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.

 

[Johann]

It's the "in him" that nobody seems to understand. What I write is for those who are in Christ. You cannot understand my writings if you are walking by the flesh.

Romans 8:1-2

There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.

I hear you brother

 

[Johann]

WUOTE="Johann, post: 1400914, member: 18257"]Great
Then what do you make of this

Php_3:12 Not as though I had already attained, either were already perfect: but I follow after, if that I may apprehend that for which also I am apprehended of Christ Jesus.

1Jn_5:16 If any man see his brother sin a sin which is not unto death, he shall ask, and he shall give him life for them that sin not unto death. There is a sin unto death: I do not say that he shall pray for it.


1Jn_1:8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.

1Ki_8:46 If they sin against thee, (for there is no man that sinneth not,) and thou be angry with them, and deliver them to the enemy, so that they carry them away captives unto the land of the enemy, far or near;

2Ch_6:36 If they sin against thee, (for there is no man which sinneth not,) and thou be angry with them, and deliver them over before their enemies, and they carry them away captives unto a land far off or near;

Ecc_7:20 For there is not a just man upon earth, that doeth good, and sinneth not.

Same question to you
Is the flesh born again [valid question]

What I make of it is that context is lost with those excerpted verses.[/QUOTE]
I can understand why you say context is lost, makes perfect sense to me though.
The same for Hebrews, who were the recipients? Hebrew Christians.


SUPERIORITY OF THE NEW DISPENSATION, OVER THE OLD
(1) General References to
Heb_7:19; Heb_8:6; Heb_9:23; Heb_11:40; Heb_12:22; Heb_12:27
(2) Shown in the Key-word "Better", in the Epistle of Hebrews
Better Revelation
Heb_1:1-4
Better Hope
Heb_7:19
Better Priesthood
Heb_7:20-28
Better Covenant
Heb_8:6
Better Promises
Heb_8:6
Better Sacrifices
Heb_9:23
Better Possessions
Heb_10:34
Better Country
Heb_11:16
Better Resurrection
Heb_11:35

If I was a Jew, this book would make a lot of sense to me, especially if it was read in the Shul.

 

[Johann]

It's the "in him" that nobody seems to understand. What I write is for those who are in Christ. You cannot understand my writings if you are walking by the flesh.

Romans 8:1-2

There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.

I see so many various interpretations that is why I go to the Greek and Hebrew, not to understand the word's meanings, but the morphology, now, having said that, I am no scholar and this is my way of studying the scriptures.

 

[Aunty Jane]

I'll stay with what the scripture says.

Well, so do I....and we read them very differently....it will be interesting to see who is right and who has it all wrong, won’t it?

Since “few” are said to be ‘on the road to life’, we already know that the majority are on the wrong road entirely....(Matthew 7:13-14) Do they know that they are? According to Jesus, they are completely oblivious. (Matthew 7:21-23)
That is going to be a very rude awakening for those “many”......isn’t it?

 

[Blue Dragonfly's]

Well, so do I....and we read them very differently....it will be interesting to see who is right and who has it all wrong, won’t it?

Since “few” are said to be ‘on the road to life’, we already know that the majority are on the wrong road entirely....(Matthew 7:13-14) Do they know that they are? According to Jesus, they are completely oblivious. (Matthew 7:21-23)
That is going to be a very rude awakening for those “many”......isn’t it?

God knows.
The Lamb of God was slain before the foundation of the world. His Book of Life was written before the foundation of the world.

God made those for glory and for the day of destruction.

 

[Johann]

I think Vincent summed it up correctely


That we have no sin
Ὅτι that, may be taken merely as a mark of quotation: “If we say, sin we have not.” On the phrase to have sin, see on Joh_16:22, and compare have fellowship, 1Jn_1:3. Sin (ἁμαρτίαν) is not to be understood of original sin, or of sin before conversion, but generally. “It is obvious that this ἔχειν ἁμαρτίαν (to have sin), is infinitely diversified, according to the successive measure of the purification and development of the new man. Even the apostle John does not exclude himself from the universal if we say” (Ebrard).
Heathen authors say very little about sin, and classic paganism had little or no conception of sin in the Gospel sense. The nearest approach to it was by Plato, from whose works a tolerably complete doctrinal statement might be gathered of the origin, nature, and effects of sin. The fundamental idea of ἁμαρτία (sin) among the Greeks is physical; the missing of a mark (see on Mat_1:21; see on Mat_6:14); from which it develops into a metaphysical meaning, to wander in the understanding. This assumes knowledge as the basis of goodness; and sin, therefore, is, primarily, ignorance. In the Platonic conception of sin, intellectual error is the prominent element. Thus: “What then, I said, is the result of all this? Is not this the result - that other things are indifferent, and that wisdom is the only good, and ignorance the only evil?” (“Euthydemus,” 281). “The business of the founders of the state will be to compel the best minds to attain that knowledge which has been already declared by us to be the greatest of all - they must continue to rise until they arrive at the good” (“Republic,” vii., 519). Plato represents sin as the dominance of the lower impulses of the soul, which is opposed to nature and to God (see “Laws,” ix., 863. “Republic,” i., 351). Or again, as an inward want of harmony. “May we not regard every living being as a puppet of the gods, either their plaything only or created with a purpose - which of the two we cannot certainly know? But this we know, that these affections in us are like cords and strings which pull us different and opposite ways, and to opposite actions; and herein lies the difference between virtue and vice” (“Laws,” i., 644). He traces most sins to the influence of the body on the soul. “In this present life, I reckon that we make the nearest approach to knowledge when we have the least possible communion or fellowship with the body, and are not infected with the bodily nature, but remain pure until the hour when God himself is pleased to release us. And then the foolishness of the body will be cleared away, and we shall be pure, and hold converse with other pure souls, and know of ourselves the clear light everywhere, which is no other than the light of truth” (“Phedo,” 67).
We find in the classical writers, however, the occasional sense of the universal faultiness of mankind, though even Plato furnishes scarcely any traces of accepting the doctrine of innate depravity. Thus Theognis: “The sun beholds no wholly good and virtuous man among those who are now living” (615). “But having become good, to remain in a good state and be good, is not possible, and is not granted to man. God only has this blessing; but man cannot help being bad when the force of circumstances overpowers him” (Plato, “Protagoras,” 344). “ How, then: is it possible to be sinless? It is impossible; but this is possible, to strive not to sin” (“Epictetus,” iv., 12, 19).
We deceive ourselves (ἑαυτοὺς πλανῶμεν)
Lit., we lead ourselves astray. See on Mar_7:24; see on Mat_27:63, Mat_27:64; see on Jud_1:13. Not only do we err, we are responsible for it. The phrase only here in the New Testament. For the verb as applied to deceivers of various kinds, see Mat_24:4; Rev_2:20; Rev_13:14; Rev_19:20; Rev_12:9; Rev_20:3. Compare πλάνοι deceivers (2Jn_1:7); πλάνη error (Jud_1:11; 1Jn_4:6).
The truth
The whole Gospel. All reality is in God. He is the only true God (ἀληθινός Joh_17:3; see on Joh_1:9). This reality is incarnated in Christ, the Word of God, “the very image of His substance,” and in His message to men. This message is the truth, a title not found in the Synoptists, Acts, or Revelation, but in the Catholic Epistles (Jas_5:19; 1Pe_1:22; 2Pe_2:2), and in Paul (2Co_8:8; Eph_1:13, etc.). It is especially characteristic of the Gospel and Epistles of John. The truth is represented by John objectively and subjectively.

Well, so do I....and we read them very differently....it will be interesting to see who is right and who has it all wrong, won’t it?

Since “few” are said to be ‘on the road to life’, we already know that the majority are on the wrong road entirely....(Matthew 7:13-14) Do they know that they are? According to Jesus, they are completely oblivious. (Matthew 7:21-23)
That is going to be a very rude awakening for those “many”......isn’t it?

Now this will be interesting to observe, throw in the elect, chosen, predestination,...

2Ti_2:19 But God's firm foundation stands, bearing this seal: “The Lord knows those who are his,” and, “Let everyone who names the name of the Lord depart from iniquity.”

the number saved spoken of a few
Mat_7:14; Mat_22:14; Luk_13:24; 1Pe_3:20; Rev_3:4


PREDESTINATION
Pro_16:4; Act_4:28; Rom_8:29; Rom_9:11; Eph_1:4; Eph_3:11; 1Pe_1:20
--SEE The Elect, PEOPLE, GOD’S
Election, ELECTION
The Chosen Ones, PEOPLE, GOD’S


SANCTIFIED ONES
Joh_17:19; Act_20:32; 1Co_1:2; 1Co_6:11; Eph_5:26; Heb_2:11; Jud_1:1


RIGHTEOUS-WICKED
(A) THE RIGHTEOUS, promises to
Job_36:7; Psa_34:15; Psa_37:25; Psa_92:12; Pro_3:32; Pro_4:18; Pro_12:13
Pro_20:7; Isa_3:10; Mat_13:43
--SEE Obedience, OBEDIENCE
Blessings, BLESSINGS-AFFLICTIONS
Reward, FUTURE, THE
& FUTURE, THE
& REWARD
---, Death of. See DEATH
---, Seed of. See HEREDITY
(B) SAINTS
(1) Contrasted with Sinners
Pro_10:6; Pro_10:16; Pro_10:25; Pro_11:5; Pro_12:7; Pro_13:21; Pro_14:32; Pro_15:6; Pro_21:15
Rom_2:9; 1Pe_4:18
--SEE Wicked, WICKED
(2) The Feet of
1Sa_2:9; 2Sa_22:34; Psa_40:2; Isa_52:7; Eph_6:15
(3) Portion of
Psa_16:5; Psa_73:26; Psa_119:57; Psa_142:5; Lam_3:24
--SEE Spiritual Heritage, INHERITANCE
(4) Promises to
Psa_37:28; Psa_97:10; Psa_116:15; Psa_132:16; Psa_149:9; Dan_7:27
1Co_6:2; Rev_11:18
--SEE Sons of God, CHURCH, THE
God’s People, PEOPLE, GOD’S
Divine Promises, PLOTTING
(5) Sealed by God
Eze_9:4; 2Co_1:22; Rev_7:3; Rev_9:4; Rev_14:1; Rev_22:4
(6) Steps of
Job_14:16; Job_31:4; Psa_18:36; Psa_37:23; Psa_40:2; Pro_4:12; Pro_16:9
--SEE The Saints (2), RIGHTEOUS
(C) THE UNGODLY
(1) The Punishment of
Rom_1:18; 1Ti_1:9; 1Pe_4:18; 2Pe_2:4; 2Pe_2:5; 2Pe_3:7; Jud_1:4
--SEE Punishment, PUNISHMENT
& PUNISHMENT
Wicked, WICKED
Chaff, WICKED
(2) A Great Host Arrayed against God’s People
Jdg_7:12; 1Sa_28:5; 1Ki_20:27; 2Ki_6:15; 2Ki_18:17; 2Ch_14:9; 2Ch_20:2
Psa_3:6; Psa_27:3; Luk_22:47
(3) Names Given to
(a) Children of the Devil
Mat_13:38; Joh_8:44; Act_13:10; 1Jn_3:10
(3) Names Given to
(b) Children of the World
Luk_16:8; Luk_20:34; Eph_2:3; Eph_5:6; Col_3:6
--SEE Chaff, WICKED
Stubble, STUBBLE
---, other titles of. SEE Titles, TITLES AND NAMES
(D) THE WICKED
(1) Characteristics of
Psa_5:9; Psa_37:12; Psa_52:3; Psa_64:3; Pro_4:16; Isa_1:4; Isa_57:20
2Ti_3:3; Jud_1:13
--SEE Evil Generation, GENERATION, EVIL
(2) Contrasted with the Righteous
Psa_11:5; Psa_32:10; Psa_37:17; Psa_75:10; Pro_28:1; Isa_65:14; Mal_3:18
Rom_2:9
--SEE Saints, RIGHTEOUS
(3) Confounded
Gen_11:8; Job_5:12; Job_12:17; Isa_37:27; Isa_40:23; Isa_41:11; Isa_44:25; Isa_45:16
Jer_20:11
--SEE Humiliation, ABASEMENT
& ABASEMENT
Men Silenced, SILENCE
(4) Die Before their Time
Job_22:16; Psa_37:22; Psa_37:38; Psa_55:23; Pro_10:27; Ecc_7:17; Isa_40:24
--SEE Sin, SIN
(5) End of
Psa_37:38; Psa_73:17; Pro_14:12; Rom_6:21; 2Co_11:15; Php_3:19
Heb_6:8; 1Pe_4:17; Rev_21:8
--SEE Death, DEATH
(6) Fate of
Psa_37:2; Psa_37:10,Psa_37:23; Psa_75:8; Psa_92:7; Psa_112:10; Psa_139:19; Pro_5:22
2Pe_2:17; Jud_1:13
--SEE Future State, FUTURE STATE OF THE WICKED
Punishment, PUNISHMENT
& PUNISHMENT
Separation, SEPARATION
(7) Portion of
Job_20:29; Job_24:18; Job_27:13; Psa_11:6; Jer_13:25; Mat_24:51; Luk_12:46
(8) Rejection of, by God
1Sa_15:23; 2Ki_17:20; Mat_25:12; Luk_13:27; Heb_12:17
--SEE Castaways, ESTRANGEMENT
Reprobation, ISRAEL-THE JEWS
Divine Curse, CURSE, DIVINE
(9) Rooted up
Deu_29:28; 1Ki_14:15; 2Ch_7:20; Psa_52:5; Pro_2:22; Jer_1:10
Mat_15:13
--SEE Sin, SIN
(10) Snared by the Own Acts
Job_18:8; Psa_9:15; Pro_22:5; Pro_26:27; Pro_28:10; Pro_29:6; Ecc_10:8
Isa_8:15
(11) Pass Away Unlamented
2Ch_21:20; Jer_16:4; Jer_22:18; Jer_25:33; Eze_7:11
--SEE Wicked, OBLIVION
(12) Compared to Chaff
Job_21:18; Psa_1:4; Isa_5:24; Isa_17:13; Hos_13:3; Mat_3:12

Not hijacking your thread @Aunty Jane, just embellish it a bit.

 

[Blue Dragonfly's]

What I make of it is that context is lost with those excerpted verses.

Do you think the epistle would be read aloud in the synagogue? When it was written as a testimony of the teachings of the condemned blasphemer executed by Rome at the behest of local Sanhedrin. And afterward, those Jews responsible cursed themselves and their future generations saying of the crucified Jesus, let his blood be on our heads and those of our children.

An Introduction To The Book Of Hebrews | Bible.org
I can understand why you say context is lost, makes perfect sense to me though.
The same for Hebrews, who were the recipients? Hebrew Christians.


SUPERIORITY OF THE NEW DISPENSATION, OVER THE OLD
(1) General References to
Heb_7:19; Heb_8:6; Heb_9:23; Heb_11:40; Heb_12:22; Heb_12:27
(2) Shown in the Key-word "Better", in the Epistle of Hebrews
Better Revelation
Heb_1:1-4
Better Hope
Heb_7:19
Better Priesthood
Heb_7:20-28
Better Covenant
Heb_8:6
Better Promises
Heb_8:6
Better Sacrifices
Heb_9:23
Better Possessions
Heb_10:34
Better Country
Heb_11:16
Better Resurrection
Heb_11:35

If I was a Jew, this book would make a lot of sense to me, especially if it was read in the Shul.[/QUOTE]

 

[Johann]

And afterward, those Jews responsible cursed themselves and their future generations saying of the crucified Jesus, let his blood be on our heads and those of our children.

Careful brother, not the Jehudi only, us also.