Do We Still Have A Sin Nature...

[Johann]

Careful brother, not the Jehudi only, us also.

The Thompson chain reference study bible gives an excellent synopsis on Hebrews.
And I have decided not to read anything from the Reformers, Puritans, Calvinism or any other ism.

 

[Johann]

There was only one sinless human that ever walked this earth and He just so happened to be God Incarnate.

Until the Resurrection of the saints all will struggle at one time or another with the flesh, sin and the devil. We all stuble and fall in many different ways. We are not sinless but believers do sin- less.

hope this helps !!!

Glad you've mentioned flesh, sin, AND Satan....


Eph 6:10 Finally, be strong in the Lord, and in the strength of his might.
Eph 6:11 Put on the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil.
Eph 6:12 For our wrestling is not against flesh and blood, but against the principalities, against the powers, against the world-rulers of this darkness, against the spiritual hosts of wickedness in the heavenly places.

 

[Blue Dragonfly's]

Careful brother, not the Jehudi only, us also.

No, just the Jews.

 

[Johann]

No, just the Jews.

Christian theology has always maintained that the human agents responsible for Jesus’ death are irrelevant: he gave his life willingly as a sacrifice for sin (Mark 10:45; John 18:11). Christians regularly confess that it was their sins (not the misdeeds of either Romans or Jews) that brought Jesus to the cross (Rom 5:8-9; 1Tim 1:15). In most liturgical churches, when Matthew’s Passion Narrative is read in a worship service, all members of the congregation are invited to echo Matt 27:25 aloud, crying, “Let his blood be upon us and upon our children!”

Do you understand?

 

[Blue Dragonfly's]

Christian theology has always maintained that the human agents responsible for Jesus’ death are irrelevant: he gave his life willingly as a sacrifice for sin (Mark 10:45; John 18:11). Christians regularly confess that it was their sins (not the misdeeds of either Romans or Jews) that brought Jesus to the cross (Rom 5:8-9; 1Tim 1:15). In most liturgical churches, when Matthew’s Passion Narrative is read in a worship service, all members of the congregation are invited to echo Matt 27:25 aloud, crying, “Let his blood be upon us and upon our children!”

Do you understand?

Yes. I understand those to whom you refer don't know what they're talking about.

 

[Johann]

Yes. I understand those to whom you refer don't know what they're talking about.

Seems like you don't like Jews, forgetting that Christ was A Jew, and our bible is Jewish, yes?

 

[Aunty Jane]

God knows.
The Lamb of God was slain before the foundation of the world. His Book of Life was written before the foundation of the world.

God made those for glory and for the day of destruction.

Don't you see that this completely negates the reason why God gave us free will....if there was no free will we would not be in this mess...

Why would God create this awful scenario with foreknowledge as to its dire consequences on purpose?
He could have created us like the animals with instinct alone to guide all our actions....but we alone are made in God's image....can you tell me why?

 

[Blue Dragonfly's]

Seems like you don't like Jews, forgetting that Christ was A Jew, and our bible is Jewish, yes?

I tell you your doctrine about the curse is in error and you think I'm antisemitic?

 

[Johann]

I tell you your doctrine about the curse is in error and you think I'm antisemitic?

My doctrine about the curse? Kindly remind me again? Or correct me, always open for correction...
And my apologies for my assumption to think that you might be anti-sematic, there are a lot of Jew haters, however, a common phenomenon.

 

[Blue Dragonfly's]

Don't you see that this completely negates the reason why God gave us free will....if there was no free will we would not be in this mess...

Why would God create this awful scenario with foreknowledge as to its dire consequences on purpose?
He could have created us like the animals with instinct alone to guide all our actions....but we alone are made in God's image....can you tell me why?

We can't have free will. And we don't.
And he tells us this.
God is sovereign. We make our choices, but it is God who sets our steps.
Surely you know the scriptures.

''I believe that every particle of dust that dances in the sunbeam does not move an atom more or less than God wishes – that every particle of spray that dashes against the steamboat has its orbit, as well as the sun in the heavens – that the chaff from the hand of the winnower is steered as the stars in their courses. The creeping of an aphid over the rosebud is as much fixed as the march of the devastating pestilence – the fall of . . . leaves from a poplar is as fully ordained as the tumbling of an avalanche.''
Charles Spurgeon

 

[Blue Dragonfly's]

The The curse the people placed on themselves and their children in Matthew 27 was related to the law.
What they were saying is, if they were wrong for seeking the death of Jesus let that wrong , that sin, be on their heads.Let the punishment come upon them.

That's a reflection too upon those who think Jesus did away with the law. He didn't.
Atonement and substitution are at the heart of the law.

My doctrine about the curse? Kindly remind me again? Or correct me, always open for correction...
And my apologies for my assumption to think that you might be anti-sematic, there are a lot of Jew haters, however, a common phenomenon.

 

[Aunty Jane]

We can't have free will. And we don't.
And he tells us this.
God is sovereign. We make our choices, but it is God who sets our steps.
Surely you know the scriptures.

Yes, and because I have carefully studied them for decades, I know what they teach.....if you check, you will see that everything God did after the fall, was a *reaction* to what his free willed creatures decided to do of their own volition. Free will was a powerful gift, but also a powerful curse if it was abused.....God allowed it to go on being abused so that his free willed creatures could observe first hand how its abuse can lead to the world we have now.....who would want to repeat this nightmare?

Jehovah is the Sovereign of all, but he forces no one to serve him or to worship him. To force any of us to do that is counter to why he gave us free will in the first place. He wants devotion from our hearts because we WANT to love and serve him, not because he threatens or forces us to. It is love, not fear of punishment that he seeks in us. Nor is he after empty performance, but he desires willing obedience because we see the love that motivates his commands....always for our good.

''I believe that every particle of dust that dances in the sunbeam does not move an atom more or less than God wishes – that every particle of spray that dashes against the steamboat has its orbit, as well as the sun in the heavens – that the chaff from the hand of the winnower is steered as the stars in their courses. The creeping of an aphid over the rosebud is as much fixed as the march of the devastating pestilence – the fall of . . . leaves from a poplar is as fully ordained as the tumbling of an avalanche.''
Charles Spurgeon

I find large holes in Spurgeon's doctrines....though some of his quotes are very poetic...but then, most charismatic leaders draw people to their ideas....I guess that is what advertisers look for to sell their products....? People influence other people....like Adam did with Eve. Satan knew this.. :hmm: Its always worked for him.

 

[Blue Dragonfly's]

Yes, and because I have carefully studied them for decades, I know what they teach.....if you check, you will see that everything God did after the fall, was a *reaction* to what his free willed creatures decided to do of their own volition. Free will was a powerful gift, but also a powerful curse if it was abused.....God allowed it to go on being abused so that his free willed creatures could observe first hand how its abuse can lead to the world we have now.....who would want to repeat this nightmare?

Jehovah is the Sovereign of all, but he forces no one to serve him or to worship him. To force any of us to do that is counter to why he gave us free will in the first place. He wants devotion from our hearts because we WANT to love and serve him, not because he threatens or forces us to. It is love, not fear of punishment that he seeks in us. Nor is he after empty performance, but he desires willing obedience because we see the love that motivates his commands....always for our good.


I find large holes in Spurgeon's doctrines....though some of his quotes are very poetic...but then, most charismatic leaders draw people to their ideas....I guess that is what advertisers look for to sell their products....? People influence other people....like Adam did with Eve. Satan knew this.. :hmm: Its always worked for him.

OK.Thanks.

 

[Peterlag]

I see so many various interpretations that is why I go to the Greek and Hebrew, not to understand the word's meanings, but the morphology, now, having said that, I am no scholar and this is my way of studying the scriptures.

I believe the King James has this Galatians 2:20 translated correctly when it says "... I live by the faith of the Son..." You have it "... I live by the faith in the Son..."

 

[Johann]

I believe the King James has this Galatians 2:20 translated correctly when it says "... I live by the faith of the Son..." You have it "... I live by the faith in the Son..."

Gal 2:20 χριστω συνεσταυρωμαι ζω δε ουκετι εγω ζη δε εν εμοι χριστος ο δε νυν ζω εν σαρκι εν πιστει ζω[I live] τη[in] του υιου[the son] του θεου του αγαπησαντος με και παραδοντος εαυτον υπερ εμου

Better, as Rev., in faith, the faith which is in the Son of God. Thus the defining and explicative force of the article τῆ after πίστει is brought out. In faith is better than by faith, although ἐν is sometimes used instrumentally. In corresponds better with ἐν σαρκὶ in the flesh. It exhibits faith as the element in which the new life is lived.

Question
Is Christ "faithing" for you
Or are you to have faith in the Son

 

[Davy]

...and here I thought that at the cross our future sins were also dealt with...or that we were set free from past, present and future sins, correct?

That's what a lot of modern preachers preach, but Apostle Paul showed in Romans 3:25 that our original belief was forgiveness of sins that are 'past'. We still need to repent of sins we may commit in the future, which is why when Christ's Apostles asked Him how to pray, He showed them in Luke 11, which includes our asking forgiveness of sins.

So just like many man-made doctrines that creep into Christ's Church by those who treat preaching like a business, and whom God did not call, likewise the wrong thinking that we never have any future need to repent of sins is made by them a marketing ploy.

 

[Davy]

I do not believe we have a sin nature. Every single person I know has told me about Romans 7 when I tell them I do not believe Paul taught about a "sin nature" for the Christian.

Then you are wrapped up in man's dogma, and have left The Word of God.

Rom 7:14-25
14 For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.
15 For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that do I.
16 If then I do that which I would not, I consent unto the law that it is good.
17 Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.
19 For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do.
20 Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
21 I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me.
22 For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:
23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.
24 O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?
25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.
KJV


Good luck with your OCCULT thinking of perfect flesh, for there is no such thing.

 

[Johann]

Then you are wrapped up in man's dogma, and have left The Word of God.

Rom 7:14-25
14 For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.
15 For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that do I.
16 If then I do that which I would not, I consent unto the law that it is good.
17 Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.
19 For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do.
20 Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
21 I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me.
22 For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:
23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.
24 O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?
25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.
KJV


Good luck with your OCCULT thinking of perfect flesh, for there is no such thing.

Rom_6:6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.

Gal_2:20 I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.

Gal_5:24 And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.

...what say you? Are we not to crucify the sarx?
Before you say to another.."Occult!" what do you make of these verses re the flesh?
When you shouted "Occult!" was it not in the sarx?!

 

[bbyrd009]

Yes. I understand those to whom you refer don't know what they're talking about.

hmm, really? strikes me as something that most Christians actually get right! You dont think you crucified Christ, all by yourself, before the foundation of the world?

 

[Davy]

Rom_6:6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.

Gal_2:20 I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.

Gal_5:24 And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.

...what say you? Are we not to crucify the sarx?
Before you say to another.."Occult!" what do you make of these verses re the flesh?
When you shouted "Occult!" was it not in the sarx?!

Lot of folks can't read Scripture properly, they tend to spiritualize things written that are meant literally, like the Romans 6:6 verse above about the body of sin. That body of sin Paul points to is about our literal flesh body; it is to be destroyed. It is a body type of THIS PRESENT WORLD, not the world to come. Now Paul's idea in Galatians about crucifying the flesh, that is about after having believed on Jesus, we are to subdue the desires and lusts our flesh causes. You did read that "affections and lusts" part, right?

So just who... wants to keep that flesh type body and live forever? Satan's little workers here on earth. That's actually one of their OCCULT doctrines, the idea of perfection of the flesh. So I'm not making this stuff up.