Do you believe the lie?

[Spiritual Israelite]

Is this all you have in response? You didn’t address a single thing…but that is not unexpected….when you have no answers you deflect with attacks….attacks are not defense.

Just answer the questions I put to you…..or are they too difficult?

LOL! I have addressed A LOT of what you've said and you dismiss it all and say I just believe what I do because I'm reading mistranslations of all those many verses which teach that Jesus is God. I have better things to do than try to debate someone who dismisses every single verse I use to support my view as having been mistranslated. What a joke. Get a clue. I'm done with this.

 

[Aunty Jane]

Hahaha! This is too funny. Guess what? They don't all agree with each other.

Pick your scholars….

Also, the translators of the English translations were/are fluent in the Bible's languages and you disagree with how they translated many verses. So, what is the point of this question?

What do you accept as truth? We will all be judged on the choices we make, but more importantly, on the reasons for those choices.

No matter what anyone says, we should be like the Bereans and study the scriptures for ourselves to see if what people say about the scriptures is true (Acts 17:10-11). That requires more than just studying the works of others, but requires submitting to the Holy Spirit and allowing Him to help us understand what we're reading. Human wisdom alone is not going to lead us to the truth because it is fallible. Scripture says to not lean on our own understanding (Proverbs 3:5-6). We need the Holy Spirit's guidance (1 Corinthians 2:9-16).

You assume a great deal…..I am a very diligent Bible student and always have been. I must prove things to myself and the Bible as a whole tells me the entire story, not just a small portion of it.
God’s spirit plays a big part in my studies…..and in my conclusions. Suffice it to say we will all stand before the same judge…..the majority will be offering their excuses to the one they call “Lord”…..but he will respond with words that will rip them in two. “I never knew you”. (Matt 7:21-23)

Let’s just wait and see who are abandoned and who are accepted. Jesus knows his own even if we do not….and that is all that matters.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

God’s spirit plays a big part in my studies

Using a lowercase "s" for God's Holy Spirit says it all about you.

John 14:26 (NASB): But the Helper, the Holy Spirit whom the Father will send in My name, He will teach you all things, and remind you of all that I said to you.

John 15:6 (NASB): “When the Helper comes, whom I will send to you from the Father, namely, the Spirit of truth who comes from the Father, He will testify about Me, 27 and you are testifying as well, because you have been with Me from the beginning.

I quoted these from the NASB which you have quoted from before. Of course, you don't accept how it translates many verses, so why you would use it at all is beyond me.

 

[Davidpt]

And you won’t, because all the mistranslations are designed to keep you hooked on a doctrine that Jesus himself never taught. The translators of the Bibles you accept were all trinitarians and so the translation bias is not obvious to you…..you see what you want to see, and believe what you want to believe, because of that bias in translation.….swallowed…hook, line and sinker.

Jesus said that if you build on a faulty foundation, no matter how impressive the outside appears to be, it will crumble when the storm hits….and the storm is coming.
It is the “many” who build on this faulty foundation according to Jesus…..and “few” will be found on the road to life…..why? (Matt 7:13-14; 21-23)

I use them because the truth is still contained in the Bibles that those in Christendom use….by using your own translations you cannot accuse me of referring to the NWT to back up my points. You overlook what you don’t want to see. You wouldn’t believe anything I quoted from the NWT, but you have to believe the translations that you all accept.

I like to compare different translation with a Concordance and an Interlinear……and I have to say that is very enlightening. Never have I been disappointed in the NWT’s rendering.

No, but I study the works of those who are fluent in the Bible’s languages….what about you?

My imagination has nothing to do with my conclusions….I simply take the whole Bible as one story, with one author, who tells us what happened in Eden, and how he sent his son to rectify everything so that his first purpose in creating humans to live on the earth forever, will be achieved. (Isa 55:11)

What was God’s first purpose in putting us humans here on this carefully prepared planet…..and why did he give his children free will when it has created so many problems for us? What was the reason why God chose some for life in heaven? Can you tell me?

What did Thomas believe concerning his Lord Jesus? Was he out of harmony with the other apostles, of whom Paul spoke collectively when he identified “the Father” as their ”one God”? AND Jesus as their “one Lord”? (1 Cor 8:5-6)

If the word “theos” means…

“a god or goddess, a general name of deities or divinities”……and can also mean….

1. whatever can in any respect be likened unto God, or resemble him in any way
   
   1. God's representative or viceregent
      
      1. of magistrates and judges” (Strongs)

What did Thomas’ expression really mean? He called Jesus “theos” but not “ho theos”……that one little word (“ho”) that is invariably missing from English translations of the Bible, most notably in John 1:1.
Only one “theos” in that verse is “ho theos” meaning Yahweh/Jehovah….the other is just “theos”.

Jesus is never referred to as “ho theos”.

So then what was Thomas actually saying”? Was he saying that Jesus was Yahweh? For a Jew that would be blasphemy! Jesus and his apostles, as well as his target audience, were all Jewish.

Even satan is called “theos” in 2 Cor 4:4….is he Yahweh?
Paul referred to the “many gods” of this world as “theos”. (1 Cor 8:5-6)
The word doesn’t have the exclusive meaning that Christendom wants to give it.

The depth of study in Christendom’s “theology” never even scratches the surface when it comes to genuine study of the Scriptures as a whole…..they cherry pick their mistranslated verses to prop up a doctrine that Jesus and his apostles never taught.

Since you brought up John 1:1, well there is also verse 3 in that same chapter.

John 1:3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.

John 1:3 says Jesus made everything.

It undeniably says nothing that was made came into being without him.

Which would have to mean per your view that since Jesus Himself was made, then He would be part of the category of things that were made.

But the verse says nothing that was made came into being without Jesus.

Therefore, Jesus could not have been made, because that would mean He made himself, which is logically impossible.

You might argue that God first made Jesus, then after He made Him, this then is applicable--but not before He made Him, but after He made Him---and without him was not any thing made that was made. Which then undeniably contradicts this part---All things were made by him. How could He make Himself? Or how could God make Jesus and that it then equals, without him was not any thing made that was made? How can everything that was made, which would have to include Jesus per your view, be made without Jesus, including Himself, since you are arguing that Jesus was a created being?

 

[Hiddenthings]

Adam evidently did not possess (his own) immortality, or have eternal life IN HIMSELF, but of Christ, the Son of God it is written that "He (Christ) alone possesses immortality" (1 Timothy 6:15-16); and "For as the Father has life in Himself, so He has given to the Son to have life within Himself" (John 5:26).

The Son of God alone can possess immortality, because the Creator alone has eternal life in Himself. ​

-- "I am the First and the Last, and the Living One,
and I became dead, and behold, I am alive for ever and ever, Amen.
And I have the keys of hades and of death." -- Revelation 1:17-18.​

Christ alone can possess the keys of hades and of death, because He died, and rose again from the dead because death could not hold Him. He is the Word of God in Whom is life [zoe], made flesh (John 1:4,14).

Immortality - which is associated with being alive in a human body that does not die - is dependent upon having eternal life, but life exists IN God alone, and only because God exists. Without the existence of God there is no life. Paul said,​

"In Him (God) we live | are alive [zao], and move, and have our being;
For we are also his offspring." (Acts 17:28).​

No CREATED human being has eternal life in himself. The eternal life of any created human being who has been given eternal life is in Christ: Jesus told those who believed in Him:​

​

Zao, as I was reading your post, I wasn’t sure whether 1 Timothy 6:15–16 may have been misapplied, or if perhaps the significance of verse 13 wasn’t fully considered. It seems possible that there’s some confusion between the One who alone possesses immortality, the sole Giver of life and the one to whom that life was granted. As the Gospel clearly states: “concerning His Son, who was born of the seed of David according to the flesh, and was declared to be the Son of God with power... by the resurrection from the dead” (Romans 1:3–4).

I’d really encourage you to take a closer look at the context of 1 Timothy 6. I believe you’ll see that the One who possesses immortality is not Christ himself, but His Father (his God). This is in line with the consistent testimony of the Gospels and the Epistles. Don’t get me wrong, I understand why you might be inclined to read it that way. But in all honesty, attributing to the Son what belongs uniquely to the Father risks diminishing God's sovereign power, something the Lord Jesus himself would never endorse.

God is the one who “gives life to all things” (1 Tim 6:13) and that statement actually appears in the same Greek sentence as “who alone has immortality,” which is significant. He has within Himself an endless source of creative power, never drained, never diminished. As Jeremiah says, “He is the living God and the everlasting King” (Jer 10:10), and He’s the same “living God” who works in both the physical world (Acts 14:15–17) and the spiritual (1 Tim 4:10).

Jesus was granted immortality by his resurrection from the dead when His Father & God raised him. Because of his sinless life and obedient death, he now holds the keys to death and the grave, meaning he has the authority to give life to what was once dead. The full weight of Rev 1:17-18 reveals he did not have any of these qualities prior to him being given life.

Of course, Revelation 1:17–18 loses its meaning entirely if Jesus is God in the absolute sense, there’s no true victory, no “firstfruits” significance. Everything spoken of as given to him by God, his inheritance...wouldn’t truly be an inheritance at all. Imagine that!

 

[Hiddenthings]

You might argue that God first made Jesus, then after He made Him, this then is applicable--but not before He made Him, but after He made Him---and without him was not any thing made that was made. Which then undeniably contradicts this part---All things were made by him. How could He make Himself? Or how could God make Jesus and that it then equals, without him was not any thing made that was made? How can everything that was made, which would have to include Jesus per your view, be made without Jesus, including Himself, since you are arguing that Jesus was a created being?

Have you considered the implications if Jesus was not brought into being by the Logos of God? Where do you see the greatest impact on the Gospel if Jesus did not become the Word made flesh, but instead was always the Word made flesh?

 

[Hiddenthings]

.I am a very diligent Bible student and always have been. I must prove things to myself and the Bible as a whole tells me the entire story, not just a small portion of it.

I agree with your general point; however, I believe your understanding of the nature of angels and the saints is somewhat lacking, I don’t think that area has been fully examined or tested (more work to do here!).

Also, it’s important to note that the throne promised to Christ, and the one the Apostles expected him to ascend to, is on earth.

As Matthew 25:31 says: “When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then he will sit on the throne of his glory.”

What is the throne of his glory? Well, it's the one his Father promised him (and David)...

“He will be great, and will be called the Son of the Highest; and the Lord God will give him the throne of His father David. And he will reign over the house of Jacob forever, and of his kingdom there will be no end.” (Luke 1:32–33)

More study could be done here also.

 

[Aunty Jane]

Since you brought up John 1:1, well there is also verse 3 in that same chapter.

John 1:3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.

John 1:3 says Jesus made everything.

It undeniably says nothing that was made came into being without him.

What are you assuming here that the Bible does not say?

John 1:1 aside, let’s have a look at verses 2 and 3….

Take a closer look….what is stated in verse 2 that actually reiterates what is said in verse 1?

“2 He was in the beginning with God”….
Can I ask you what you believe this is the “beginning” of?
And how is the son “with” a Being that is suppose to be himself?

An eternal God has no beginning. He is, in fact, the only Being that has always existed….every other intelligent creature did have a beginning…..of which, the being who became Jesus Christ, is the “firstborn”. (Col 1:15; Rev 3:14) He is not the first human “son of God” because Adam is said to hold that title. (Luke 3:38)

“3 All things came into being through Him, and apart from Him nothing came into being that has come into being.” (NASB)

Nowhere does the Bible call Jesus “the Creator”. There are some words you need to notice in these verses.
”all things came into being THROUGH” him….what does that mean? If you do something “through” someone else, that is called ‘agency’……you know what an agent does? They represent a person and act in their behalf.

Prov 8 talks about a personified wisdom who was with the Creator “from the beginning”, as his “master workman”, delighting and rejoicing at the creation he was helping to bring into existence.

”From everlasting I was established, From the beginning, from the earliest times of the earth. While He had not yet made the earth and the fields, Nor the first dust of the world. “When He established the heavens, I was there, When He inscribed a circle on the face of the deep, When He set for the sea its boundary So that the water would not transgress His command, When He marked out the foundations of the earth; Then I was beside Him, as a master workman; And I was daily His delight, Rejoicing always before Him, Rejoicing in the world, His earth, And having my delight in the sons of men.” ( excerpts NASB)

What is that describing to you? When Genesis 1:26 speaks of “us” and “our” can you see from Prov 8 that being an agent of creation, doesn’t make Jesus a Creator?

So no back up from verses 2 and 3.

Which would have to mean per your view that since Jesus Himself was made, then He would be part of the category of things that were made.

Paul tells us that the son is ”the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of ALL creation” (Col 1:15)
if he is the “firstborn of ALL creation”, then he is a part of that creation.
Rev 3:14 tells us that he is “the beginning of God’s creation”. Why is that so hard to accept…..the trinity will not allow it.

But the verse says nothing that was made came into being without Jesus.

As the “master workman” at his Father’s side, he was preset and involved in creation, but it came “through” him…not “from” him. He was a construction worker, but he was not the architect.

Therefore, Jesus could not have been made, because that would mean He made himself, which is logically impossible.

You said it…it is logically impossible for God to have made himself. He is called a Father because he caused the “birth” (creation) of his son. Why call each other by those designations if they do not apply in our understanding? Those roles do not really exist in heaven. All spirit beings are genderless.

You might argue that God first made Jesus, then after He made Him, this then is applicable--but not before He made Him, but after He made Him---and without him was not any thing made that was made. Which then undeniably contradicts this part---All things were made by him. How could He make Himself? Or how could God make Jesus and that it then equals, without him was not any thing made that was made? How can everything that was made, which would have to include Jesus per your view, be made without Jesus, including Himself, since you are arguing that Jesus was a created being?

Are you hearing yourself now….?
God in his past existence was alone…self contained…needing nothing and no one….but at some point, he decided to become a Father and share his boundless love with other beings. Since the “firstborn” son is the agent of ALL creation, and he alone is “only begotten”…..he logically was created first, as the only direct creation of his Father, and all other things, including the angels, (also called sons of God) came through his agency. What is complicated about that?
The son is always pictured at his Father’s right hand….but there is not a single mention of the Holy Spirit being at his left…..did you know that?

 

[Hiddenthings]

Paul tells us that the son is ”the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of ALL creation” (Col 1:15)
if he is the “firstborn of ALL creation”, then he is a part of that creation.
Rev 3:14 tells us that he is “the beginning of God’s creation”. Why is that so hard to accept…..the trinity will not allow it.

Some empathy is needed here, Jane. They've been taught extra-biblical ideas that they feel obligated to apply to the Word of God. In truth, this is something many denominations have struggled with to some extent or another. However, Christendom as a whole has been significantly misled, particularly when it comes to the doctrine of the Trinity. In my experience maybe 1 person out of 10,000 Christians can open their minds enough to see the wisdom you are sharing. When the Lord returns these matters will all be dealt with.

 

[Aunty Jane]

Using a lowercase "s" for God's Holy Spirit says it all about you.

John 14:26 (NASB): But the Helper, the Holy Spirit whom the Father will send in My name, He will teach you all things, and remind you of all that I said to you.

John 15:6 (NASB): “When the Helper comes, whom I will send to you from the Father, namely, the Spirit of truth who comes from the Father, He will testify about Me, 27 and you are testifying as well, because you have been with Me from the beginning.

I quoted these from the NASB which you have quoted from before. Of course, you don't accept how it translates many verses, so why you would use it at all is beyond me.

You are another one who doesn’t read carefully….nor apparently do you refer to Interlinear translations for reference….you can learn a lot by checking these with a good concordance…..so many resources are available…there is no excuse for ignorance.

e.g. If you know anything about Greek, you will know that there is no upper or lower case….and no punctuation…..so all the English translators had to add them. Think about that.…because the “spirit“ originally had no “case”.
And spirits have no gender, so calling the Paraclete (helper) “he” has to do with Greek grammar, (masculine gender) not a indication that the Holy Spirit is a person.

The “spirit of the truth” had to come from the Father….why? If Jesus was God, couldn’t it come from him?

You getting all bent out of shape over a lower case “s” says it all about you as well. As they say…”a little knowledge is a dangerous thing”.

I use a few different translations, usually those that are more commonly used on the site.…because when I show people from their own translations that they have mistranslated verses, it upsets them because they have nothing to throw back at me….I rarely use the NWT because the mistranslations in the commonly used translations are so obvious.

 

[Aunty Jane]

Some empathy is needed here, Jane. They've been taught extra-biblical ideas that they feel obligated to apply to the Word of God. In truth, this is something many denominations have struggled with to some extent or another. However, Christendom as a whole has been significantly misled, particularly when it comes to the doctrine of the Trinity. In my experience maybe 1 person out of 10,000 Christians can open their minds enough to see the wisdom you are sharing. When the Lord returns these matters will all be dealt with.

I have little empathy for ignorance when it is a choice. I grew up with the trinity…immortal souls….and hellfire….something inside me kept gnawing away at my conscience….these things didn’t paint a very good picture of a loving God. Nor did I find his love in churches that took sides in supporting corrupt politics and sanctioning bloodshed in the wars of their nations.

No one can come to the Father except through the son…but no one can come to the son without an invitation from his Father (John 6:65)…..the only job we have is to inform people and show then the truth from God’s word.…God will do the rest.

 

[Hiddenthings]

I have little empathy for ignorance when it is a choice. I grew up with the trinity…immortal souls….and hellfire….something inside me kept gnawing away at my conscience….these things didn’t paint a very good picture of a loving God. Nor did I find his love in churches that took sides in supporting corrupt politics and sanctioning bloodshed in the wars of their nations.

No one can come to the Father except through the son…but no one can come to the son without an invitation from his Father (John 6:65)…..the only job we have is to inform people and show then the truth from God’s word.…God will do the rest.

I agree. I attended a Baptist church for a while, and while I certainly experienced a lot of love there their uncritical acceptance of certain doctrines led me to dig deeper in search of the hidden things of God. It can be challenging at times to remain patient with those who oppose themselves.

 

[Zao is life]

I will simply point out that there are no additional qualifications in that passage other than we now be risen with Christ. The real question is how much weight we give to that fact. If we believe it exactly as written, all who are raised with Him now will appear with Him then. That's not interpretation, that's the plain saying of the Bible.

1 John 3:1-3 KJV
1) Behold, what manner of love the Father hath bestowed upon us, that we should be called the sons of God: therefore the world knoweth us not, because it knew him not.
2) Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.
3) And every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as he is pure.

We see the same thing here. If we are now the sons of God, we know that when He appears, we shall be like Him. Is that true exactly as written?

Philippians 3:20-21 KJV
20) For our conversation (citizenship) is in heaven; from whence also we look for the Saviour, the Lord Jesus Christ:
21) Who shall change our vile body, that it may be fashioned like unto his glorious body, according to the working whereby he is able even to subdue all things unto himself.

If we are citizens of heaven now, our bodies will be transformed then. Again, no other qualifications. If it doesn't happen to any who are currently citizens of heaven, this passage is not true. And that's not right, it is in fact true. I least, I believe it is.

Exactly as written.

Much love!

So continuing to compare scripture with scripture and with the examples from nature that Jesus and His apostles so often gave us, let's start again with this:

I'm sure that if a branch that is IN the vine isn't bearing fruit but is alive, the gardener would never cut that branch off, so to kill it. He'll probably lift it up - airo (bear with and assist) - or do something to help it to bear fruit,

and even the branches that are bearing fruit he will prune. (I haven't ever tended a grape vine, but I imagine the pruning helps the branch bear even more fruit).

But if I were a gardener tending a vine I imagine I definitely would pull off the dead branches and throw them away. The dead branch that I throw away was in the vine. So it must have been alive once, but then it died.

Jude calls certain people, "twice-dead people":

Jude 1
"There are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ. These are spots in your feasts of charity, when they feast with you, feeding themselves without fear: clouds they are without water, carried about of winds; trees whose fruit withereth, without fruit, twice-dead, plucked up by the roots." (Jude 1:4, 12).

--- "If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned." -- John 15:6 (Jesus).

"The angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day.

Therefore woe unto the ungodly men who have turned the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denied the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ for they have gone in the way of Cain, and ran greedily after the error of Balaam for reward, and perished in the gainsaying of Korah. (Jude 1:4, 12, 6).

Twice-dead people:

"For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,
If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.
For the earth which drinketh in the rain that cometh oft upon it (i.e "those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost", etc)

.. and bringeth forth herbs meet for them by whom it is dressed, receiveth blessing from God:
But that which beareth thorns and briers is rejected, and is nigh unto cursing; whose end is to be burned." (Hebrews 6:4-8).

2 Every branch IN ME that beareth not fruit he airo (bears with and assists), and every branch that beareth fruit, he purgeth it, that it may bring forth more fruit.
5 He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.

6 If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned. (John 15).

No one who is alive in Christ AND DOES NOT REMAIN IN CHRIST remains risen WITH Christ - because Christ is ALIVE - but the ones who have died are twice-dead.

It's not the same as the one who realizes too late when the Lord returns, that all their lives they were rejecting Him, though in their hearts they knew the message was true, calling those who do abide in Him religious fanatics; and then sneaking into the wedding feast pretending they were always there (those without wedding garments).
​

In my opinion your way of interpreting the scriptures about this, and your interpretation of the Greek words and the illustrations given by Jesus and His apostles, is causing all the scriptures relating to this subject, to mean what they do not mean.

I'm going to agree to disagree with you on it because we are just going to be going around in circles.

 

[Zao is life]

Your argument about this verse does not make any sense. All references to people who are in Christ in John 15 compare them to being like branches. He's never referring to literal branches there. The branches figuratively represent those who are in Christ, so in that way all of those who are in Christ are like branches whether they are fruitful or not.

Verse 2 shows that Jesus contrasted branches who are in Him and are fruitful with those branches who are in Him and are not fruitful. He does the exact same thing in verses 5 and 6.

I agree, Our Savior so often used illustrations from nature that we should understand, and yet those who believe in Him still manage to interpret the things He was saying to mean things they do not mean.

 

[Zao is life]

"We should be like the Bereans and study the scriptures for ourselves to see if what people say about the scriptures is true (Acts 17:10-11). That requires more than just studying the works of others, but requires submitting to the Holy Spirit and allowing Him to help us understand what we're reading. Human wisdom alone is not going to lead us to the truth because it is fallible. Scripture says to not lean on our own understanding (Proverbs 3:5-6). We need the Holy Spirit's guidance (1 Corinthians 2:9-16)."​

The entire JW cult is based on human wisdom and intellect. The Holy Spirit is "a force" according to them. What does their "force" know?

 

[Zao is life]

Using a lowercase "s" for God's Holy Spirit says it all about you.

John 14:26 (NASB): But the Helper, the Holy Spirit whom the Father will send in My name, He will teach you all things, and remind you of all that I said to you.

John 15:6 (NASB): “When the Helper comes, whom I will send to you from the Father, namely, the Spirit of truth who comes from the Father, He will testify about Me, 27 and you are testifying as well, because you have been with Me from the beginning.

I quoted these from the NASB which you have quoted from before. Of course, you don't accept how it translates many verses, so why you would use it at all is beyond me.

They believe the Holy Spirit is "a force".

No created human being can be spiritually born [gennao] of a 'force' and receive eternal life [zoe] from a 'force'.

A created human being can be born of the Spirit of the living [zao] God who has eternal life [zoe] in Himself and be given eternal life [zoe], which is in Christ.

A 'force' cannot be grieved:

"And do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, by whom you are sealed until the day of redemption." (Ephesians 4:30).

A 'force' cannot comfort those who believe in and follow Jesus, and teach them all things and bring all things to their remembrance, whatever He said to them:

"Jesus said, "But the Comforter, the Holy Spirit whom the Father will send in My name, He shall teach you all things and bring all things to your remembrance, whatever I have said to you." (John 14:26).

A 'force' cannot bear testimony of anyone to the heart and mind of anyone, or make the one who rejects its witness guilty of calling God Himself a liar:

"And when the Comforter has come, whom I will send to you from the Father, the Spirit of truth who proceeds from the Father, He (the Spirit of truth) shall testify of Me." (John 15:26). "He who believes on the Son of God has the witness in himself. He who does not believe God has made Him a liar, because he does not believe the record that God gave of His Son." (1 John 5:10).

Their "force" helps them to translate the scriptures in accordance with their fallible and finite human intellects.

But to those in Christ,

"There is one body and one Spirit, even as you are called in one hope of your calling, one Lord, one faith, one baptism, one God and Father of all, who is above all and through all and in you all." (Ephesians 4:4-6).

 

[Zao is life]

I’d really encourage you to take a closer look at the context of 1 Timothy 6. I believe you’ll see that the One who possesses immortality is not Christ himself, but His Father (his God).

In the New Testament eternal life [zoe] is associated with God the Father, who is a Spirit.

Immortality is ALWAYS associated with being eternally alive [zao] in a human body that does not die or decay.

"For IN HIM (God) we live | are alive [zao], and move, and have our being; as certain also of your own poets have said, For we are also his offspring." (Acts 17:28).

We will not be resurrected from the dead and become immortal by the eternal life [zoe] of the Father, but by the eternal life [zoe], the resurrection [anastasis] and immortality of the Son of man, the Son of God, our Savior, who is alive [zao] to the ages of the ages:

"Fear not; I am the first and the last: I am he that liveth [zao], and was dead [nekros]; and, behold, I am alive [zao] to the Ages of the ages [Greek the aeons of the aeons], Amen; and I have the keys of hades and of death."

Jesus is telling you that He is immortal: He is alive [zao] to the ages of the ages. He alone has the keys of death and of hades, because He is the One that liveth [zao], and was dead [nekros]; and rose again from the dead:
​

God is a Spirit who is alive [zao] and has eternal life [zoe] in Himself, and He created human beings to live | to be alive [zao] in their created bodies, on the created earth.

He did not created human beings to "die and go to heaven when they die". Death is the enemy of God.

Christ is not a created human being, nevertheless He took on human flesh for this reason:

"For this reason Christ died [apothnesko] and rose again from the dead [anistemi], and lived again [anazao: lived again in a body that is not dead], so that he may be the Lord of both the dead [nekros] and living [zao: those who are alive in a body that is not dead]." (Romans 14:9).​

 

[Hiddenthings]

Immortality in the New Testament is ALWAYS associated with being eternally alive [zao] in a human body that does not die or decay.

Eternal life [zoe] is associated with God the Father, who is a Spirit.

"For IN HIM (God) we live | are alive [zao], and move, and have our being; as certain also of your own poets have said, For we are also his offspring." (Acts 17:28).

We will not be resurrected from the dead and become immortal by the eternal life [zoe] of the Father, but by the eternal life [zoe] and the resurrection [anastasis] and immortality of the Son of man, the Son of God, our Savior, who is alive [zao] to the ages of the ages.

The God who is alive [zao] has eternal life [zoe] in Himself, and He created human beings to live | to be alive [zao] in their created bodies, on the created earth.

He did not created human beings to "die and go to heaven when they die". Death is the enemy of God.

Christ is not a created human being, nevertheless He took on human flesh for this reason:

"For this reason Christ died [apothnesko] and rose again from the dead [anistemi], and lived again [anazao: lived again in a body that is not dead], so that he may be the Lord of both the dead [nekros] and living [zao: those who are alive in a body that is not dead]." (Romans 14:9).

And He said to His churches:

"Fear not; I am the first and the last: I am he that liveth [zao], and was dead [nekros]; and, behold, I am alive [zao] to the Ages of the ages [Greek the aeons of the aeons], Amen; and I have the keys of hades and of death."

Jesus is telling you that He is immortal: He is alive [zao] to the ages of the ages. He alone has the keys of death and of hades, because He is the One that liveth [zao], and was dead [nekros]; and rose again from the dead:

"Jesus said to her, I am the [ἀνάστασις anástasis] Resurrection (of the body) and the (eternal) Life! [zoe]. He who believes in Me, though he die [apothnesko], yet he shall live [zao].”

We will not be resurrected from the dead and become immortal by the eternal life [zoe] of the Father, but by the eternal life [zoe] and the resurrection [anastasis] and immortality of the Son of man, the Son of God, our Savior, who is alive [zao] to the ages of the ages.​

Interesting, you didnt comment on "God is the one who gives life to all things” (1 Tim 6:13)...including the Lord Jesus Christ

Was it that you were afraid to look, in case the Word taught you something different? or were you more focused on sharing what you already knew?

 

[Zao is life]

Interesting, you didnt comment on "God is the one who gives life to all things” (1 Tim 6:13)...including the Lord Jesus Christ

Was it that you were afraid to look, in case the Word taught you something different? or were you more focused on sharing what you already knew?

You have decided what the Word teaches though the Word teaches you something different.

Christ is God. Your JW nonsense is not going to making your false assertion about me asserting that God is not the giver of life magically come true.

 

[Hiddenthings]

Christ is not a created human being, nevertheless He took on human flesh for this reason:

It's astonishing what can emerge from the minds of men....often packaged in contradictions that, in the end, amount to little more than an unknowable mystery.