Amen to the Holy Spirit, Praise Him for the gift of Tongues, Praise Jesus, Praise Him for His power, His joy, His love, wooohoooooo! Joy overflowing onto these forums right now. 
Do you pray in tongues?
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Naomi25
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In regards to the OP question: No. I don't.
However....I feel I need to say....there seems to be two categories coming out here: those that do and those who don't (and deny it's validity).
What about those who do not pray in tongues, because they have not been gifted with it, but would like to? No one seems intent on addressing that, and well, you know...it might be nice, don't you think?
I am not a cessationist. I know plenty of people who pray in tongues and I have prayed for the gift, should God want me to have it. Thus far, he has not, apparently. What then?
Should I accept I am some sort of "lesser" Christian? I don't believe scripture teaches I am.
Should I believe you are some how "better" Christians than me because you can speak in tongues? I don't know, but sometimes, that's the impression I get, whether you mean to give it or not.
If I might suggest...perhaps some of you more experienced in tongues could suggest....what people like me should do about it. I suspect there are more people in this "third category" than you think. Wanting spiritual gifts that just don't seem to be forthcoming. Since you have experience, since you have been gifted, I think scripture teaches it falls to you to lead in this area.
However....I feel I need to say....there seems to be two categories coming out here: those that do and those who don't (and deny it's validity).
What about those who do not pray in tongues, because they have not been gifted with it, but would like to? No one seems intent on addressing that, and well, you know...it might be nice, don't you think?
I am not a cessationist. I know plenty of people who pray in tongues and I have prayed for the gift, should God want me to have it. Thus far, he has not, apparently. What then?
Should I accept I am some sort of "lesser" Christian? I don't believe scripture teaches I am.
Should I believe you are some how "better" Christians than me because you can speak in tongues? I don't know, but sometimes, that's the impression I get, whether you mean to give it or not.
If I might suggest...perhaps some of you more experienced in tongues could suggest....what people like me should do about it. I suspect there are more people in this "third category" than you think. Wanting spiritual gifts that just don't seem to be forthcoming. Since you have experience, since you have been gifted, I think scripture teaches it falls to you to lead in this area.
Hello Naomi!
I think it's wonderful that you seek God. He will give you His gifts wherever you are. He saved me and I didn't know what had happened then He baptized me in the Holy Spirit and gave me the gift of tongues and I didn't know what that was.
All outside of church walls. I owe, we all owe Him everything and not some man created religion or denomination.
EVERYONE that asks receives. Don't think that you have to have a guide or coach. Stick to the Scriptures. As to teaching others the resistance of traditional denominational teaching resists and fights against the Bible's words.
It's hard to find a believer that hasn't been influenced by the naysayers. Even Paul way back then had to write forbid not. All I can do is post experiences and scripture.
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Naomi25
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Hi Frank, thanks for your encouraging post! I will continue to seek and ask and pray. I suppose I should always remind myself that as God's child, he has a definite plan for me. That's exciting, whatever it is!
Jesus is so near. He still goes and saves sheep in the wilderness like me. The 34th chapter of Ezekiel tells us that due to the lack of effort by the shepherds He through His compassion goes after the scattered sheep Himself.
Ezekiel 34:11-12 KJVS
For thus saith the Lord God ; Behold, I, even I, will both search my sheep, and seek them out. [12] As a shepherd seeketh out his flock in the day that he is among his sheep that are scattered; so will I seek out my sheep, and will deliver them out of all places where they have been scattered in the cloudy and dark day.
Yes, we have the entire Bible and with it we have formed apparently more than 40,000 thousand different denominations with often conflicting beliefs or doctrines. As to disciples, what are they? Are they not followers, learners and/or pupils of Jesus?
As to Israelites? Who are they? Are they not the ones who will rule as God? [Israel From H8280 and H410; he will rule as God]
"Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel:" Rom 9:6
Should we then throw away the verses where you say He is not talking to us? When was it that God stopped talking to His people? Are we not his sheep who hear His voice while not hearing the voice of strangers? What makes you @Ac28 other than another stranger to us?
That same Bible from which have come the over 40,000 denominations? Why is your denomination a better one? Because you say so? Without God to lead us, will we not all end up in ditches?
The Bible is the unquickened flesh of Jesus. Without the quickening it is dead to anyone no matter that those who wrote it were anointed by God. Those who read it must also be anointed with that same Spirit or find themselves in that ditch:
"[God] Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life." II Cor 3:6
I won't attempt to educate you in where all of your errors are as you have made up you mind, but you should read the scriptures and ask God for help. Alone you will be unable to find the truth unless you do sincerely ask of Him. You will be as Pontius Pilate who asked what truth was for he was unable to see that it was standing before him in Jesus.
"Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call." Acts 2:38-39
God has called many who are not natural children of Jacob the son of Isaac. To say that we have not been called as per verse 39 above is a quite arbitrary decision on your part.
Study alone will get you to a weariness of the flesh [Ecc 12:12] and nothing more.
"Then Peter opened his mouth, and said, Of a truth I perceive that God is no respecter of persons:
But in every nation he that feareth him, and worketh righteousness, is accepted with him." Acts 10:34-35
God who have never changed has never been a respecter of persons.
Truth7t7
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The only people in the Bible that have a hope of being resurrected into Heaven are those who SEE, BELIEVE, and CLAIM this hope in Paul's last 7 epistles, all written after Acts. Actually, it says, Far above all Heavens, where Christ sits at the right hand of God. This is where Satan aspired to go and he tries to prevent humans from going there by keeping them in Acts, specifically, by conning them into believing the lies that the rapture, the gifts of the Spirit, and other all-Israel things, available during the all-Israel Acts period, are available today, although Israel and EVERYTHING associated with Israel was set aside in Ac 28:28 and Israel has not existed, in God's eyes, for 1950 years.
The wiles of Satan keeps much of Christendom focused on the presently dead doctrine of Acts instead of the live doctrine found ONLY in Paul's post-Acts epistles. Since Paul's 7 Acts books were written to both believing Jews and Gentiles in the all-Israel Acts church, and ALL saved Gentiles in Acts were part of Israel (grafted into), and Israel doesn't exist today, no doctrine found in those books (Rom, Thess, Cor, Gal, Heb) applies directly to any Saint living today. Quotes from any of those Acts books (or Acts, itself) cannot be used to prove anything about the rapture or the gifts, or most anything else from the Acts period, being truth for today If we want to know what applies to us today, we must look in today's Gentile books written by Paul, mainly Eph and Col.
We are not Abraham's seed. We are not spiritual Israel. The church today is not true Israel. The ONLY purpose of the Gifts during Acts was to provide better witnessing to Israel, who required a sign, so they would accept Christ, so He would return and restore Israel's earthly Kingdom. When Israel ceased to exist, the gifts were no longer needed.
The wiles of Satan keeps much of Christendom focused on the presently dead doctrine of Acts instead of the live doctrine found ONLY in Paul's post-Acts epistles. Since Paul's 7 Acts books were written to both believing Jews and Gentiles in the all-Israel Acts church, and ALL saved Gentiles in Acts were part of Israel (grafted into), and Israel doesn't exist today, no doctrine found in those books (Rom, Thess, Cor, Gal, Heb) applies directly to any Saint living today. Quotes from any of those Acts books (or Acts, itself) cannot be used to prove anything about the rapture or the gifts, or most anything else from the Acts period, being truth for today If we want to know what applies to us today, we must look in today's Gentile books written by Paul, mainly Eph and Col.
We are not Abraham's seed. We are not spiritual Israel. The church today is not true Israel. The ONLY purpose of the Gifts during Acts was to provide better witnessing to Israel, who required a sign, so they would accept Christ, so He would return and restore Israel's earthly Kingdom. When Israel ceased to exist, the gifts were no longer needed.
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Truth7t7
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Those posting in this thread "Hidden In Him", "ByGrace" and "Truth7t7" have openly told you they have received the gift of speaking in the "Unknown Tongue" as Identified below.
In the mouth of two or three witnesses may every word be established, will you call those witnesses liars?
1 Corinthians 14:2KJV
2 For he that speaketh in an unknown tongue speaketh not unto men, but unto God: for no man understandeth him; howbeit in the spirit he speaketh mysteries.
2 Corinthians 13:1KJV
This is the third time I am coming to you. In the mouth of two or three witnesses shall every word be established.
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Sorry, but Corinthians doesn't apply to us today, at least not anything that would tell us what belongs to us Gentiles now or will belong to us in the future.
You, like most all Saints, have very little understanding of the New Testament, because of your utter refusal to obey 2Tim 2:15, and rightly divide (correctly cut, correctly dissect) God's word. If you did rightly divide, all of this stuff pertaining to Israel that you now think applies to you would be eliminated from your doctrine. Also, according to that verse, you would be approved unto God and would have no need to feel ashamed. Rightly dividing the Word of Truth is the #1 secret to understanding scripture.
There are many minor things in the Bible that should be rightly divided, but the main thing, separating that which belongs to Israel from that which belongs to us Gentiles, is by far the main thing, and that would take care of most, if not all, of the minor things. Strong's says that rightly dividing means, "make a straight cut". To me, that implies that only one single cut is necessary. The only place in scripture that one single cut would result in 100% Israel on one side of the cut and 100% Gentile on the other side, is Acts 28:28.
I'm not saying that everything in those 59 all-Israel books should be eliminated. God forbid! All scripture is God-breathed and all is FOR us. What doesn't apply to us directly is what must be removed from our doctrine. This includes our calling, the hope of our calling, our rules and directions, and anything given to Israel that is not specifically given to us Gentiles, also, as spelled out in Paul's 7 post-Acts epistles. If it's not in Eph, Col, etc., it's not for us.
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I read your post several times and, besides being very confusing, nothing you said proves or disproves anything. Out of those 40,000 different Biblical mind-sets, there can be only one correct answer for each question posed and applying things given only to Israel, to Gentiles, will not work as a proof. Everything in Acts was all-Israel, since the saved Gentiles in the Acts church were all grafted into Israel, the good olive tree. The only Gentile books in the Bible are Paul's 7 books written after Acts. If you want to prove anything that applies directly to us Gentiles today, you must quote only from those 7 books. Paul, throughout his ministry, continually received unique special revelations from Jesus Christ. His books written after Acts were his last books written and, therefore, were the last and final word concerning Gentile doctrine. Therefore, what is contained in his last 7 books (Eph, Phil, Col, 1&2Tim, Titus, and Philemon) certainly takes precedence over anything written in his 7 Acts books (Rom, Gal, 1&2Th, 1&2Cor, Hebrews). Therefore, if you want to prove anything regarding what belongs to us Gentiles, you can't quote anything from his Acts books, unless it is backed up by his post-Acts books.
A proof of this lies in the stated fact that everything contained in Paul's post-Acts books was a mystery hid in God and not ever revealed in scripture until Paul wrote those last 7 books, after the end of Acts.
Eph 3:3
How that by revelation he made known unto me the mystery; (as I wrote afore in few words --- (afore in Eph 1:9).
Col 1:26
Even the mystery which hath been hid from ages and from generations, but now is made manifest to his saints:
Scripture contains many mysteries.The mid-Acts people erroneously say the mystery in Romans 16:25 is the same mystery that is in Eph and Col. However, the mystery in Romans was hidden in the scriptures of the prophets -Rom 16:26.
The truth in Paul's last 7, all-Gentile, books is entirely different than anything written in the other 59 books, which were all-Israel. Different church, Different Calling, No ordinances. Etc, etc.
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Truth7t7
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Your claim of God's word applying specifically to "Jews/Israel" in the New Testament is in left field, as Timothy below clearly states "All Scripture" For Doctrine And Instruction, To The "Man Of God", no two peoples mentioned.
2 Timothy 3:16-17KJV
16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
17 That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works.
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And who was it that decided these rules you have set before us?
You say I have written nothing that proves anything. My proof is what God has written on my heart. The only proof of truth that any of us have has come to of us from God.
You do not even use the scriptures to prove your point. You say divide up what Apostle Paul has written, but you do not show us in scripture why it must be so. You do not refer us to someone from whom you have received your wisdom. You do not go through verses to explain why you are right and we are wrong. But nonetheless we should simply throw all that God has shown to us through the scriptures over many years and accept what you write here as truth. I am quite afraid that unless you have more than that you will continue to stand alone here.
Hidden In Him
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Greetings, Naomi!
Listen, do not worry yourself over this, and most of all do not think yourself some "lesser" Christian just because you have not experienced tongues or other spiritual gifts yet. Just trust God and keep walking with Him. Eventually He will lead you to the right time and place where it will happen, even if the Holy Spirit just falls on you after you pull over to the side of the road some night. Or you find yourself caught up in worship surrounded by a group of believers upon whom the Spirit rests mightily, and the experience just comes upon you. Just trust Him and keep walking with Him, and don't give any nonsense about Him loving you less a moment's thought. That's gibberish. I will tell you why in a moment.
Listen to me here. Gifts are given for the sake of ministry. They are not for personal encouragement, though they can have this effect. But watch. Let me highlight just how much ministry is the purpose behind the spiritual gifts:
Pursue love, and desire spiritual gifts, but especially that you may prophesy. 2 For he who speaks in a tongue does not speak to men but to God, for no one understands him; however, in the spirit he speaks mysteries. 3 But he who prophesies speaks edification and exhortation and comfort to men. 4 He who speaks in a tongue edifies himself, but he who prophesies edifies the church. 5 I wish you all spoke with tongues, but even more that you prophesied; for he who prophesies is greater than he who speaks with tongues, unless indeed he interprets, that the church may receive edification.
6 But now, brethren, if I come to you speaking with tongues, what shall I profit you unless I speak to you either by revelation, by knowledge, by prophesying, or by teaching? 7 Even things without life, whether flute or harp, when they make a sound, unless they make a distinction in the sounds, how will it be known what is piped or played? 8 For if the trumpet makes an uncertain sound, who will prepare for battle? 9 So likewise you, unless you utter by the tongue words easy to understand, how will it be known what is spoken? For you will be speaking into the air. 10 There are, it may be, so many kinds of languages in the world, and none of them is without significance. 11 Therefore, if I do not know the meaning of the language, I shall be a foreigner to him who speaks, and he who speaks will be a foreigner to me. 12 Even so you, since you are zealous for spiritual gifts, let it be for the edification of the church that you seek to excel. (1 Corinthians 14:1-12).
According to verse 6, even tongues is ultimately designed to minister to others by being interpreted and/or understood by someone speaking a foreign language. And verse 12 states clearly that those who desire the spiritual gifts should do so out of a need to minister to others. The gifts I have been given all just came upon me without asking, most at the very time when I was starting to enter online ministry. They just started happening. Why? Because I was entering into a place where God was going to use me to minister to others, and He desired to empower me to do so to an even greater extent.
The point is this: Pray for the gifts, but pray that the Lord keeps preparing you for ministry. Pray He starts revealing to you your calling. Once you start entering into it, you may suddenly find that gifts just start showing up in your life. This is why I say don't be worried about it at all. Just focus on continuing to grow in Christ and His word. The time will come, if you just keep pursuing Him, where He will anoint you for greater service unto God.
God bless, and please keep asking questions. There are many here who can help you.
Sometimes I use the word "doctrine", which simply means teaching, when I actually mean what applies directly to us Gentiles or what applies directly to Israel. My apologies.
All scripture is written FOR everyone, FOR doctrine, FOR reproof, FOR correction, FOR instruction in righteousness, but all scripture is NOT written directly TO everyone. How many Gentiles, that weren't proselytes, ever offered an animal sacrifice as the Jews were commanded to? Here's another example. We know, by Mt 10:5, Mt 15:24, Rom 15:8, and Jn 1:31, that Christ's ministry was only to Israel. He did talk to a couple of Gentiles, but He didn't preach His Gospel of the Kingdom to them. In Mt 19:16, a man asked Christ what he should do to have eternal life and Christ told him to "Keep the Commandments." If any Gentile believes that a person, today, can get saved by keeping the commandments, I have this bridge for sale.
1- The 10 commandments are part of the law and no Gentile ever had to keep the Law.
2- The 10 commandments are works and Paul, the ONLY apostle for Gentiles says in Eph 2:8-9 that you can't get saved by doing works. If you object that James said that faith without works is dead, please note that the book of James was written to Israel, Jam 1:1
3- Believing Paul's gospel of salvation in 1Cor 15:1-4, which is the only thing I'm sure of that carried over to Paul's post-Acts dispensation, says that you must believe in the death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus Christ, in order to get saved. Since this was not all known until 3 days after Christ's death, it is impossible that anything Christ spoke before His death will assure salvation for any of us.
This is just one of many, many things given to Israel that doesn't apply to us. In fact, I can't think of anything given to Israel that does apply to use. If a Gentile included the book of John, along with Paul's last 7 books, he could learn most everything that he actually needs to know. We must practice right division if we want to have even a basic understanding of scripture.
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Truth7t7
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I agree Frank!
I was 18 , and saved for like 3 months, leaving drugs and the party scene as a teenager, I was in the Assembly Of God church where the gift was active.
I went home and prayed on my knees in my room, the gift came perfectly, in unknown tongues flowing, My brothers and father were in the living room and heard the words, they thought I went off the deep end of the cliff.
My brothers and father have been saved since, I look back at the time, and my heart was sincere before the Lord, if he gave I was willing to receive, and the heavens opened!
Amen!
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You never seem to say anything that has any meaning or validity.
God is not in the business of writing truth or anything else on your heart. You have the complete 66 book Bible and that's the only place today that God has written anything. What you said sounds like a cop-out, an excuse for not knowing the Bible. I knew a guy that didn't study the Bible because he erroneously believed the the Holy Spirit would guide him in all truth - John 16:13. He must have thought he was one of Christ's disciples, since that's who Christ was talking to. Also, that already took place in Ac 2 at Pentecost in the form of the gifts, which lasted 33 years, before being set aside.
The rules were written by Paul and, since he is your only apostle, and since he, only, had constantly been receiving special revelations directly from Christ, his God-breathed word is the last word, as far as what applies directly to you. His main 2 rules on how to understand scripture are
2Tim 2:15
Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.
Phil 1:10
That ye may approve things that are excellent (see Strong's = try or test things that differ); that ye may be sincere and without offence till the day of Christ.
It is interesting to note that both of these verses appear only in Paul's books written after Acts. Why? Because they were not needed earlier, since all of the other 59 books involved ONLY Israel. But now, with these brand new 7 books, the only books in the Bible written TO Gentiles, we need some instruction from God on what to do with all that other stuff pertaining only to Israel, and that's where those 2 verses come into play. Otherwise, since the rules, hopes, callings, etc., for the Jews are totally different than those given to the Gentiles. we would run across contradictory rules and would, thus, be confused.
So, a person has 2 options:
1- They can study and apply these 2 verses to their Bible study, Since this isn't as simple as it looks, it might take years before one can expunge all that denominational brainwashing they've been soaking up for much of their lives. It took me 10 years to get rid of it, and from looking around, that's not extreme. If one keeps plugging, all of that 100% Jewish Acts stuff will start to fade in your mind and you'll be back to square 1. At that point, you can start to learn truth. After awhile, you may know enough truth to be approved unto God, have no need to feel ashamed, and be sincere and without offense til the Day of Christ.
2- They can continue as they are without obeying those 2 verses, and end up spending their lives being 100% wrong about most everything in the NT. They will, therefore, not be approved unto God, will need to feel ashamed, and will be insincere and offensive until the Day of Christ. The only good thing is that they will know as much as most all mainstream denominational preachers, none of whom obey either of those verses.
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I don't want to push on you my beliefs which are quite bit away from yours. But I will give you a taste to see if you are hungry and thirsty fpr righteousness or for something else.
That which rightly divides the truth is the Holy Ghost in us. It is not rightly divided in some because instead of following the lead of the Spirit they quench the Spirit. This is the primary reason I see for the 40,000 plus so-called Christian denominations. If it were man using his brain and his logic to encounter truth and it worked then those with brains like Einstein would those closest in their approach to God. This is not the Way that God has made it to be.
The confusion comes from following our own minds or the minds of other men instead of being led by God via the Holy Ghost. So we have the CC plus a multitude Protestants following their own ways instead of God's Way. His sheep know His voice and follow Him. They don't know strangers. Let us all come the Way of sheep rather than the way of goats.
Naomi25
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Thank you! That was an extremely helpful post! And...it may explain why I have not been gifted! As much as I often think of ministry...I find that my mission field is home. I have a chronic illness that doesn't let me out much, and my kids are homeschooled because of autism/anxiety. So...no...we don't get out much!
But...there is still my family I try and minister to, which is important. And, like you, I get online when I can and try promote God's word as I can...the truth of the gospel. So...I will pray for God to grant me gifts in line with those things...for his glory and the benefit of others!
Helen
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[QUOTE="Ac28, post: 403498, member: 7152"]Sorry, but Corinthians doesn't apply to us today, at least not anything that would tell us what belongs to us Gentiles now or will belong to us in the future.[/QUOTE]
1 Corinthians 13
1 Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, and have not charity, I am become as sounding brass, or a tinkling cymbal.
2 And though I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all mysteries, and all knowledge; and though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, and have not charity, I am nothing.
3 And though I bestow all my goods to feed the poor, and though I give my body to be burned, and have not charity, it profiteth me nothing.
4 Charity suffereth long, and is kind; charity envieth not; charity vaunteth not itself, is not puffed up,
5 Doth not behave itself unseemly, seeketh not her own, is not easily provoked, thinketh no evil;
6 Rejoiceth not in iniquity, but rejoiceth in the truth;
7 Beareth all things, believeth all things, hopeth all things, endureth all things.
8 Charity never faileth: but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail; whether there be tongues, they shall cease; whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away.
9 For we know in part, and we prophesy in part.
10 But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away.
11 When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things.
12 For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known.
13 And now abideth faith, hope, charity, these three; but the greatest of these is charity. "
Applies to the Church. At Corinth , not Jews...
The living Church.
1 Corinthians 13
1 Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, and have not charity, I am become as sounding brass, or a tinkling cymbal.
2 And though I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all mysteries, and all knowledge; and though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, and have not charity, I am nothing.
3 And though I bestow all my goods to feed the poor, and though I give my body to be burned, and have not charity, it profiteth me nothing.
4 Charity suffereth long, and is kind; charity envieth not; charity vaunteth not itself, is not puffed up,
5 Doth not behave itself unseemly, seeketh not her own, is not easily provoked, thinketh no evil;
6 Rejoiceth not in iniquity, but rejoiceth in the truth;
7 Beareth all things, believeth all things, hopeth all things, endureth all things.
8 Charity never faileth: but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail; whether there be tongues, they shall cease; whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away.
9 For we know in part, and we prophesy in part.
10 But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away.
11 When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things.
12 For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known.
13 And now abideth faith, hope, charity, these three; but the greatest of these is charity. "
Applies to the Church. At Corinth , not Jews...
The living Church.
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