Do you pray in tongues?

[JesusIsFaithful]

My apologies if this is in fact a true perception of what happened. I cannot comment for someone else. All I will say is that I didn't notice it.


Ok, but now let's address this: Without trying to defend what anyone else said (I don't teach that those without the baptism should automatically be considered "unsaved"), you do believe there were instances in NT times when some had become believers yet had not yet received the baptism in the Holy Spirit, correct?

If you are referring to incidents in the Book of Acts; you need to read those incidents with His discernment, because many tongue speakers refer to those passages as proof that one does not always receive the baptism with the Holy Spirit at their salvation ( which does not really help your cause because that just adds to the illusion that non-tongue speakers are not saved and yes, some tongue speakers, not in this forum, will use that as proof for why believers need to seek to receive the Holy Spirit by a sign of tongues ) See how a slippery slope this discussion can get?

Acts 19:1-7 were not believers in Jesus Christ, but disciples of John the Baptist's. Paul had to tell them about Jesus and then they got water baptized in His name and then they got saved.

Acts 8 is the only one that delays the receiving of the Holy Ghost but you have to discern why Luke was giving all the background on that incident and how they were believing in the "things" Philip was talking about which one could argue as not the same as believing in Him.

The background was that the people of the area had regard Simon highly in fear because he was the one that had afflicted the people with unclean spirits and now Philip was coming along seemingly undoing his work that it caught the attention of Simon's. They were NOW fans of Philip and Simon was in the limelight and had jealousy and bitterness in seeing his work undone supposedly by someone more powerful than him.

Jesus said about those born again, that no one can know when it is done in John 3rd chapter, but the promise is when they believe in Him, they shall be saved as when they are born again as explained to Nicodemus in John 3rd chapter.

So that is why Peter & John had to go down to lay hands on those potential believers because they might give Philip that credit & glory which may be why it was not happening; not to mention that Simon was there which may tempt the new believers into thinking Simon was up to his old tricks again.

You have to ask Him why Philip could not lay hands on them? Why Peter & John had to do this? I believe because of the fanfare and God wanted to lift their sights higher. Indeed, looking at Simon in how his heart was still not right with the Lord shows that his sight needed to be lifted higher when he thought he could buy this power from Peter & john to give the Holy Ghost.

So I believe Acts 8 was the Father drawing them unto the Son to eventually believe in Him, but their sights were on Philip because of how Simon had former infamy in having their attention.

I do point out that it was not reported that they had spoken in tongues because no foreigner was among them for God to manifest tongues towards.

Not every saved believer in Acts received tongues at their salvation. The Ethiopian eunuch did not speak in tongues, thus indicative that tongues were not for private use, being how the Lord was ministering through Philip when the eunuch was alone.

 

[JesusIsFaithful]

You go too far.

If I had tongues and believed it was for private use and understood it not, I would be wondering if God is not showing love towards me as I would be wondering if He is the God of confusion after all, but He is not and therefore that tongues for private use is not really God's gift of tongues.

It's less about God and more about His vessels, JIF. Paul urged the Corinthians to pray rather that they might prophecy, the implication being that many were not yet. Was that God's fault? No. The Corinthians needed to be seeking the higher gifts, and as I stated, if there is an abundance of those who are speaking in tongues yet few who can interpret (1 Corinthians 14:13), that imbalance needs to be corrected through prayer.

Actually Paul prayed that someone would interpret the tongue that was being manifested through him by the Holy Ghost as that was Paul's message meant for the tongue speakers so that if any speak in tongues, they were to pray so that another may interpret so that the tongue may be understood by the tongue speaker and thus actually be fruitful to the tongue speaker.

It was his spirit that was praying that someone may interpret that tongue, not the Holy Spirit praying.

 

[JesusIsFaithful]

Was Jesus serious in telling the ruler to sell all his possessions or not? (Matthew 19:21)

He was not asking this towards all believers. He was asking this from a religious man seeking to be justified by the deeds of the law to make the point that what is impossible for man is possible for God in how we are saved.

 

[Hidden In Him]

So that is why Peter & John had to go down to lay hands on those potential believers because they might give Philip that credit & glory which may be why it was not happening; not to mention that Simon was there which may tempt the new believers into thinking Simon was up to his old tricks again.

Brother. :) You are building assumption upon assumption here without support. Where is your evidence from the text that the Samaritans were in danger of giving Phillip the glory? It's an entirely made up argument, LoL, and my guess is it was created by someone out there so they wouldn't have to deal with the possibility that a believer placing faith in Christ and later experiencing the baptism in the Holy Spirt could be two different experiences.

 

[JesusIsFaithful]

Brother. :) You are building assumption upon assumption here without support. Where is your evidence from the text that the Samaritans were in danger of giving Phillip the glory? It's an entirely made up argument, LoL, and my guess is it was created by someone out there so they wouldn't have to deal with the possibility that a believer placing faith in Christ and later experiencing the baptism in the Holy Spirit could be two different experiences.

Paul & Barnabas had that problem when miracles was being performed by the Lord through them.

Acts 14:12 And they called Barnabas, Jupiter; and Paul, Mercurius, because he was the chief speaker. 13 Then the priest of Jupiter, which was before their city, brought oxen and garlands unto the gates, and would have done sacrifice with the people. 14 Which when the apostles, Barnabas and Paul, heard of, they rent their clothes, and ran in among the people, crying out,

You have to ask Him in normal prayer why Philip could not just lay hands on them. Why did He led Peter & John down to do it?

When you lean on Him to wonder why Luke is giving all this background about Simon and the people, then you can see why the delay in their salvation.

They were not saved until they had received the Holy Ghost. They did not speak in tongues for they were all of the same area.

Romans 8:9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

So you see how this becomes a slippery slope when you argue that not every believer will receive the Holy Ghost at their salvation? And all of this by your insisting as you are pointing to tongues as a sign of receiving that baptism with the Holy Ghost.

For the readers out there; you are promised the Holy Ghost from the Father when you come to & believe in Jesus Christ.

Galatians 3:14 That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith...........26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.

We are not children of God by the sign of tongues. That is not our gospel.

Ephesians 1:11 In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will: 12 That we should be to the praise of his glory, who first trusted in Christ. 13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise, 14 Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory. 15 Wherefore I also, after I heard of your faith in the Lord Jesus, and love unto all the saints,

Rest in Jesus Christ that you are saved simply by believing in Him and that you had received the promise of the Holy Spirit by faith in Jesus Christ; not by sight of tongues.

 

[Hidden In Him]

If I had tongues and believed it was for private use and understood it not, I would be wondering if God is not showing love towards me as I would be wondering of He is the God of confusion after all, but He is not and therefore that tongues for private use is not really God's gift of tongues.

Brother, you are speaking here as one who has not experienced it. You don't hear these kinds of doubts coming from those who have on this thread. And you automatically attribute this to "bragging," when I for one can tell you I couldn't care less what anyone thought of me. I am not the focus, and no amount of accusations are going to make it true.

It was his spirit that was praying that someone may interpret that tongue, not the Holy Spirit praying.

My apologies, but this comes out of left field somewhere to me. If it's similar to your position on Phillip and the Samaritans then I think I'll wait to wrap my head around it till some point down the road, LoL. No offense, I'm just not making much intelligible sense out of it. You appear to come from a background steeped in the refutation of Pentecostalism, and I suppose this is my introduction to absolute staunch opposition to it.

 

[JesusIsFaithful]

Brother, you are speaking here as one who has not experienced it. You don't hear these kinds of doubts coming from those who have on this thread. And you automatically attribute this to "bragging," when I for one can tell you I couldn't care less what anyone thought of me. I am not the focus, and no amount of accusations are going to make it true.


My apologies, but this comes out of left field somewhere to me. If it's similar to your position on Phillip and the Samaritans then I think I'll wait to wrap my head around it till some point down the road, LoL. No offense, I'm just not making much intelligible sense out of it. You appear to come from a background steeped in the refutation of Pentecostalism, and I suppose this is my introduction to absolute staunch opposition to it.

I cannot convince you, brother. If you rely on experience as proof when you should be proving or reproving the experience per the scripture kept in the KJV by trusting Jesus Christ as your Good Shepherd to help you prove all things in abstaining from all appearances of evil, then you will fall for anything.

 

[Hidden In Him]

Paul & Barnabas had that problem when miracles was being performed by the Lord through them.

Acts 14:12 And they called Barnabas, Jupiter; and Paul, Mercurius, because he was the chief speaker. 13 Then the priest of Jupiter, which was before their city, brought oxen and garlands unto the gates, and would have done sacrifice with the people. 14 Which when the apostles, Barnabas and Paul, heard of, they rent their clothes, and ran in among the people, crying out,

Yes brother, I know. But you are transposing one text unto another, and changing the immediate context based entirely on assumption.

They were not saved until they had received the Holy Ghost.

So Phillip had baptized them in the name of Jesus Christ (Acts 8:16), but they were not yet saved? Why would he baptize them in the name of Jesus Christ if they did not yet believe? You are now contradicting your own arguments I think. You are saying that they believed upon the Lord Jesus Christ, yet they were not yet saved?!

"But when they believed Philip as he preached the things concerning the kingdom of God and the name of Jesus Christ, both men and women were baptized." (Acts 8:12).

 

[Ac28]

My friend, I don't want to make it sound like I am making fun of you because I'm not. But these words right here explain a lot about why you seem to be espousing a mountain of strange theology. A lot of it is so out there that no one has even bothered addressing it.

My experience with believers deeply rooted in demonism is that they often have to struggle for many years to fully come out from the influence, especially when the demons they gave themselves to were of the class involved in false religion.

Have you gotten deliverance from this demon you summoned everyday? I'm asking honestly.

I'm convinced that demons were present in every charismatic church I attended and were manifested in the fake speaking of tongues, fake slaying in the spirit, fake healing and all the other fake, counterfeit, satanic practices that ALWAYS occur in those churches. Everyone who gets sucked into this trash gets this "buzz" or "rush" in these churches and, although no one would ever admit it, I'm convinced that that's the main reason they keep filling the pews. The 2nd reason is they love the "magic" involved. The 3rd is that they believe they're special because they have received the fake, non-scriptural 2nd blessing. Since all of these gifts ceased to exist almost 2000 years ago, their manifestation can be contributed to Mass hysteria, mass hypnosis, demonic possession, or any other non-scriptural reason you can dream up. If you compare the way the gifts are manifested in Acts and Paul's Acts books, with the way they are manifested in those charismatic churches, any honest person would have to say that they're totally different. If they're different than the Bible, even in the slightest, they're fake.

For anyone that has attended these fake-gifts churches, I might ask the same question: Have you gotten deliverance from the demons that possess you every time you walk into one of those churches and succumb to any of their satanic teaching? I'm asking honestly.

If you would obey 2Tim 2:15 and started rightly dividing God's word, you would soon realize that, scripturally, it is IMPOSSIBLE for anyone living today to have any of the gifts of the spirit that were first given to the 120 Jews at Pentecost in Ac 2. So, how do the counterfeit gifts manifest in those churches?

 

[Helen]

Jesus Is My Lord And Savior, My Personal Testimony Is True.

I Received The Gift Of Speaking In Other Tongues At 18 Years Old, And It's Still The Same 40 Years Later.

Agree....for me at age 26....and still the same 50 years later....

...And I praise the Lord. I am just not smart or wise enough to know how to pray in every given circumstance. Therefore by praying in an unknown tongue ...I know then that His Spirit Himself prayed ...then need for that person or circumstance was heard.

The beauty of 'tongues of men and angels...' God be glorified.

 

[Ac28]

Paul spoke in the gift of "Unknown Tongues"
You look towards pentecost and known tongues of man's language?

Paul explains the actual gift as "Unknown Tongues" a "Mystery"

1 Corinthians 14:2KJV
2 For he that speaketh in an unknown tongue speaketh not unto men, but unto God: for no man understandeth him; howbeit in the spirit he speaketh mysteries.

The word "unknown" is not in the Greek. It has been added by the interpreters.

 

[amadeus]

Assume that you are addressing 10 people, each of which is from a different country and all speak a different language. When you address them in your native language, each of the 10 will simultaneously hear you speak in their own native language.

If you can't do this, you can't speak in tongues.

And you will also teach God what speaking in tongues is and what it is not? Consider Job's position before he was set straight by God.

We cannot get understanding of God's message to us in the scriptures by study alone:

"But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you." John 14:26

 

[Hidden In Him]

I'm convinced that demons were present in every charismatic church I attended and were manifested in the fake speaking of tongues, fake slaying in the spirit, fake healing and all the other fake, counterfeit, satanic practices that ALWAYS occur in those churches. Everyone who gets sucked into this trash gets this "buzz" or "rush" in these churches and, although no one would ever admit it, I'm convinced that that's the main reason they keep filling the pews. The 2nd reason is they love the "magic" involved. The 3rd is that they believe they're special because they have received the fake, non-scriptural 2nd blessing. Since all of these gifts ceased to exist almost 2000 years ago, their manifestation can be contributed to Mass hysteria, mass hypnosis, demonic possession, or any other non-scriptural reason you can dream up. If you compare the way the gifts are manifested in Acts and Paul's Acts books, with the way they are manifested in those charismatic churches, any honest person would have to say that they're totally different. If they're different than the Bible, even in the slightest, they're fake.

For anyone that has attended these fake-gifts churches, I might ask the same question: Have you gotten deliverance from the demons that possess you every time you walk into one of those churches and succumb to any of their satanic teaching? I'm asking honestly.

If you would obey 2Tim 2:15 and started rightly dividing God's word, you would soon realize that, scripturally, it is IMPOSSIBLE for anyone living today to have any of the gifts of the spirit that were first given to the 120 Jews at Pentecost in Ac 2. So, how do the counterfeit gifts manifest in those churches?

Thanks for utterly and completely ignoring my questions, LoL. You know, just repeating yourself all over again without ever addressing the questions I presented to you doesn't make the best case. It just sort of makes you look... obnoxious. No disrespect intended. I would certainly give your points the time of day if I thought this was anything resembling a conversation. Unfortunately it is not.

 

[Truth7t7]

Agree....for me at age 26....and still the same 50 years later....

...And I praise the Lord. I am just not smart or wise enough to know how to pray in every given circumstance. Therefore by praying in an unknown tongue ...I know then that His Spirit Himself prayed ...then need for that person or circumstance was heard.

The beauty of 'tongues of men and angels...' God be glorified.

So that means your 40 now Grace :)

You remember the conservative world we lived in, things have changed "EH"?

50 years ago a Canadian PM marching down the main street in Toronto waving a rainbow flag?

 

[Ac28]

And you will also teach God what speaking in tongues is and what it is not? Consider Job's position before he was set straight by God.

We cannot get understanding of God's message to us in the scriptures by study alone:

"But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you." John 14:26

In Jn 14, Christ was talking to the disciples. They only had the Old Testament at that time. According to several verses, Christ was only sent to Israel - see Mt 15:24. You're not a disciple, you're not an Israelite, and you have the entire Bible.

Are you one of Christ's original disciples? If not, you can't assume He was talking to you. If Paul, the only apostle any of us have today, repeated this in his last 7 books, this would be valid for us also. But he didn't.

We have the entire word of God today and we are completely on our own as far as our learning is concerned. The Bible is all we have and that's all we need. In Paul's last 7 books, he said his present dispensation fulfils the Word of God. That means filled full, filled to the brim, complete. God hasn't said a word to anyone since Paul completed those last 7 books. The only source of truth you need is the Bible The Bible is the Spirit from start to finish.

The Comforter did come, in Ac 2 at Pentecost, at first to 120 Jews, and provided all those spiritual gifts, for the sole purpose of converting Israel. However, since Israel refused to accept Christ, they were set aside in Ac 28:28. At the same time, everything associated with Israel. the gifts of the Spirit, the rapture, the Jewish Acts church, the calling of the New Jerusalem, you name it, were also set aside. None of these things have been available for 1950 years. If you want to see the glorious calling that is available for us Gentiles today, you'll only find it in Paul's 7 books written after Acts - Eph, Phil, Col, 1&2Tim, Titus, and Philemon. The other 59 books are entirely Israel. They contain vast quantities of excellent information but, if you want to know exactly what God's plan is for YOU and your loved ones, today, you'll find it ONLY in Paul's 7 post-Acts books.

That's what right division in 2Tim 2:15 is all about, making a single straight cut of scripture in a place where it is 100% Israel on one side of the cut and 100% Gentile on the other side. Why? Because there are 100's of things pertaining to Israel that you don't get (or want - the Gentile blessings are far superior). You would only be confused. The only place in the Bible where that All Israel/All Gentile division possibility exists is Acts 28:28. You will find that nothing in Paul's post-Acts books is found any place else in the Bible. It is a Mystery said to have been hid in God until revealed by Paul after Israel was gone. You find that you can spend eternity in heavenly places, defined as far above all Heavens, where Christ now sits at the right hand of God. No one in the other 59 books ever had a chance of going to Heaven - Search and see.

 

[Frank Lee]

Those that have not experienced the gift of the Holy Spirit and FIRE with the always accompanying gift of tongues are the experts we see. If it weren't a serious matter the comments of the naysayers would be laughable.

If any man be ignorant let him be ignorant. Please please those that have rejected God's gift of His Holy Spirit, don't lecture believers on subjects you are completely clueless on. You only reveal your complete lack of knowledge.

Just be content receiving your learning from the good doctors of the denomination whose member book you signed and soaking in the doctrines of traditional powerless religion.

1 John 2:27 KJVS
But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.

The anointing, the baptism in the Holy Spirit must be experienced in order to be taught by the Lord. Unbelief always attempts to destroy the simplicity of God's word.

You do not have to be baptized in the Holy Spirit to be saved. You are denying what Jesus promised if you refuse it. You leave much of your inheritance of the believer at the table and walk away because of fear and unbelief.

God spoke to this unbelief first.

Isaiah 28:11-12 KJVS
For with stammering lips and another tongue will he speak to this people. [12] To whom he said, This is the rest wherewith ye may cause the weary to rest; and this is the refreshing: yet they would not hear.

 

[Frank Lee]

Things I've been told after witnessing that Jesus saved me then baptized me in the Holy Spirit and FIRE and gave me the wonderful gift of tongues. I and things I've read from dominational (denominational) members.

1. You are deceived and what you have experienced is from Satan.
Funny, he never did this while I was living wide open as a sinner and trying everything he suggested.
2. You're not even saved.
Pardon me? Not worth replying to.
3. God stopped all of that stuff after the Canon of the Bible was complete.
Ecclesiastes 3:14

4. We have modern medicine today. Miracles of healing and those others are not necessary.
What? Get a life or death situation in your family and see what you do. You'll begin to pray for things your denomination says are not for today.

5. You can't understand the Scriptures unless you know Greek, Latin and Hebrew.
Who says? The doctor or priest?

6. Tongues are only for church with an interpreter. There are no other uses for this tongues thing.

Brother Jude disagrees, Jude verse 20. In the new testament praying in the spirit, praying in tongues, praying in the Holy Spirit, praying in the Holy Ghost are synonymous.

7. Its a sin to speak in tongues outside of a congregation.

Refer to previous answer.

8. There is no purpose to speak in tongues without others present that do not speak your language.

Tongues and interpretation of tongues in a congregation is just one facet of the gift. The primary purpose is prayer and "giving thanks well".
1 Corinthians 14:17 KJVS
For thou verily givest thanks well, but the other is not edified.

Prayer in the spirit, tongues, is an anointed encrypted message from your spirit man to God. This WHY the devil fights so hard against this gift of God.

Paul was ALREADY FIGHTING against this unbelief in his era. This is WHY HE had to command DO NOT FORBID TO SPEAK WITH TONGUES.

may I yell for a moment? DENOMINATIONAL BELIEVERS FIGHTING AGAINST THE BAPTISM IN THE HOLY SPIRIT AND THE GIFT OF TONGUES ARE SIDING AGAINST GOD.

Unbelievers in this gift of God At the least take the position of Gamaliel,

Acts 5:38-39 KJVS
And now I say unto you, Refrain from these men, and let them alone: for if this counsel or this work be of men, it will come to nought: [39] But if it be of God, ye cannot overthrow it; lest haply ye be found even to fight against God.

 

[Helen]

And you will also teach God what speaking in tongues is and what it is not? Consider Job's position before he was set straight by God.

We cannot get understanding of God's message to us in the scriptures by study alone:

"But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you." John 14:26

I agree, rather than tongues being something to "brag" or boast about...it is actually just the opposite!!

It needs humility ...to be willing to look like and sound like a fool ...especially for my husband , too a lot of yielding and letting go. He just couldn't release control. Back in those days, the saying being " Let go and let God." :)

For me. Being a 26 year old young mother.
I remember being in what was called 'a tarrying meeting' in the back room after the regular meeting was over. ( to which my brother and I had been to many yet 'not received since we believed..')

Some other people were receiving the Holy Spirit... In the end I remember getting cross...I raised my head , looked upward and said.

"Lord I need Your infilling, I need Your Holy Spirit, I need Your daily power to live the Christian life, to sweep my kitchen floor, to raise my children, I just need all that I can get of You Lord."
That was my prayer.

I immediately felt a pressure on my head pressing my dead down to my knees. ( I had been sitting straight upright with annoyance )
Then, in the pit of my stomach I felt the moving and the fluttering ...then an overwhelming joy...and the up and out of my mouth flooded the Holy Spirit in words I had never heard...on and on and on , like He would never stop.

It was a few years after this that while reading a Watchmen Nee book, he said-
" The Holy Spirit is within the Christian...when we get baptized in the Spirit...it is from inside out, not outside in.
At Pentecost He came down upon...but since then it has been "the release of the Spirit", from within. "

When I just can't, He can and enables me.

The gift is for everyone...but many are too proud to let go and just let God.
It does take trust and a letting go...which we all so often find hard to do. :)

 

[Frank Lee]

The Holy Spirit baptism and speaking in tongues for me was literally manna - "what is it"?

I'd never heard of this AT ALL. But after a lifetime of sin and affliction did I ever hitch my wagon to Jesus' train!

When Paul asked do all speak with tongues he wasn't saying the gift was not for everyone, but rather many rejected it as we see with the unbelievers now.

 

[Hidden In Him]

1. You are deceived and what you have experienced is from Satan.
Funny, he never did this while I was living wide open as a sinner and trying everything he suggested.
2. You're not even saved.
Pardon me? Not worth replying to.
3. God stopped all of that stuff after the Canon of the Bible was complete.
Ecclesiastes 3:14

4. We have modern medicine today. Miracles of healing and those others are not necessary.
What? Get a life or death situation in your family and see what you do. You'll begin to pray for things your denomination says are not for today.

5. You can't understand the Scriptures unless you know Greek, Latin and Hebrew.
Who says? The doctor or priest?

LoL. Got some good chuckles out of these.

About number one, a friend of mine points out that if all the present gifts are all of the Devil then where are God's gifts in the midst of all this? It makes Him out to be either inferior, incompetent or just plain lazy, LoL.

Enjoyed your post.