Absolutely. The cults bring false gospels, are enemies of the cross, and are anathema maranatha (accursed at Christ's return.)
Does Anyone Here Believe in The Trinity?
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I believe in the trinity in that Jesus is part of God as the son of God and is God. The way I've been taught is that God is one mind and purpose or will. And the Father, the Son and the Holy Ghost are God. But they are persons.
Respect. I encounter far more trinitarians these days who say it isn’t than I do who say it is. It wasn’t always like that. Strange times we’re living in.
" I solemnly exhort you in the presence of God and of Christ Jesus, who is to judge the living and the dead, and by His appearing and His kingdom: preach the word; be ready in season and out of season; correct, rebuke, and exhort, with great patience and instruction. For the time will come when they will not tolerate sound doctrine; but wanting to have their ears tickled, they will accumulate for themselves teachers in accordance with their own desires, and they will turn their ears away from the truth and will turn aside to myths."
2 Timothy 4:1-4
Since Christians are being increasingly hated and villianized in "the western world", I suspect the religious folk will be weeded out by persecutions. The Spirit of Christ gives the power to persevere in the face of death. Cultic self deception doesn't have that power, but stands in the flesh.
There have been times when I have felt like giving up because of all the discussions arising out of false doctrines but felt that we should continue to promote the truth of the full gospel so I have stayed. However I do not get into these controversial discussions or those that are merely supposition. What I try to do is to offer encouragement and inspiration with positive threads which hopefully bring glory to God.
It was not based on this one comment or verse alone RLT. There was more previous discussion that led to this clincher of a statement.
So let me see, I can do one better. I will go back to the verses prior to this one and show you who Yahshua was calling himself, as they finally got the message with such a passionate disgust and hatred for the Christ.
John 8:16, 18-19, 24, 27-29 Yahshua said he is the Son of his Father who is from, of heaven
John 8:35-36, 38 Yahshua said he is the Son of God
John 8:40-43, 54-55 Yahshua said his Father is God
Notice the logical sequence of verses developed in this discussion.
1, Yahshua the Son of his Father
2. Yahshua the Son of God
3. Yahshua's Father is God
Therefore Yahshua is the Son of God, who is his Father
And then Yahshua spoke about their (Pharisees) father, who they claimed was Abraham. And he criticized them for not even doing their father's work as Yahshua shoved in their faces that he though was doing the work of his Father, who is God, and their father Abraham would approve of it in gladness.
So they believed that Yahshua was a blasphemous fraudster as he not only belittled them and their father Abraham (as they thought he did and he really didn't), he also elevated himself above Abraham as he claimed to be the Son of the most High, God, his Father and he also claimed to be their Messiah as the icing on the cake.
It all brought their blood to a boil...
So they went for the stones out of fiery anger to kill him...
And welcome to the CB site RLT. Enjoy your stay here where you can not only contribute as I see you are doing already, also you can pick up some gems or great pointers.
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Exhorted in the presence of God and of God.
Christians being hated and villanized is an old, old story - throughout the world, from the 1st century even to today.
Trinitarians moving away from the historic trinitarian view of trinitarianism (I have in mind here the anathema of the Athanasian Creed as an example of the seriousness of that historic view) toward the doctrine of the Trinity (“right, good, nice” - but not a salvation issue) is a 20th / 21st century development. Trinitarianism isn’t dead but it’s dying.
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Aunty Jane
Well-Known Member
I have lost count of the number of times I have addressed this scripture....but for the benefit of those who say we never address it....here it is again...
The title “the Alpha and the Omega” applies to “the Almighty”, stressing that there was no Almighty God before him and that there will be none after him. He is “the beginning and the end.” (Revelation 21:6; Revelation 22:13) Although Yahweh is referred to as “the first and the last” at Revelation 22:13 (that there is none before or after him) the context in the first chapter of Revelation shows that the title “the First and the Last” there applies to Jesus Christ. (that he was the first human to be resurrected to immortal spirit life and the last one to be so resurrected by His Father personally. (Colossians 1:18)
So here we have rather ambiguous titles, not actual names and these titles can apply equally to both Father and son for a number of reasons. There is no unequivocal statement anywhere in the entire Bible that says that Jesus is God Almighty, or even equal to him in any way. There is not a single statement from either God or his son claiming what Christendom believes.
Also, the term “the First [“pro’tos”, not “alpha”] and the Last [“e’skha·tos”, not “omega”] occurs at Revelation 1:17-18 and 2:8. In these verses, the context shows that the one referred to died and later returned to life. Thus, these verses cannot refer to God because he has never died. (Habakkuk 1:12) However, Jesus died and was resurrected. (Acts 3:13-15)
The speaker at Revelation 22:13 is not specifically identified, and there are various speakers in this chapter, making it very difficult to be sure who is the actual speaker. So like all references to Jesus in the Christian scriptures, there is no clear statement confirming what the church came to believe....that the son is somehow also God. I say this because the actual doctrine of the trinity was not officially introduced into the Catholic Church until the 4th century after Jesus died. It is not taught in scripture. “The church” introduced many other doctrines that were not biblical in origin, and many of these remain to this day.....lost in time and accepted without question.
If Jesus foretold that Christianity would be corrupted in the same way that Judaism was, due to negligent and power hungry leadership, looking back in history, the corruption is clearly evident.
We all need to examine what we believe and who told us that it was the truth....?
The Jews were desperate to pin a charge of blasphemy on him because it was a capital offence in Judaism, and the scriptures reveal that the Romans knew that Jesus had broken no Roman law, so bringing this very serious Jewish law into play they hoped it would give them the excuse they needed to get rid of this trouble maker.
When Pilate refused to cooperate with their scheme, the crowd threatened to report him to Caesar for treason. He washed his hands of the whole affair and even had Jesus flogged to appease them. How can you not know these things that are clearly stated in the Bible?
Read John 10:31-36.....what did Jesus call himself? If he was God, here was a perfect opportunity to confirm it as the Jews had accused him of claiming to be God anyway.....confirming his position as “the son of God”, Jesus did not ever say that he was God incarnate.
The scriptures used to *prove* that “Jesus is God” are all suggestions....based on interpretation of ambiguous verses that can be read according to original language, in other ways. This is why your own personal study is important.
The favoured *proof* text in John 1:1, does not say in Greek what is translated into English.
I can show you if you are interested. Not holding my breath, however. :
hmm:We all know about “indoctrination”.....but what if the real indoctrination took place centuries ago, and that what people assume is “Christianity” today, is nothing but the devil’s Counterfeit? It was prophesied by Jesus himself....so do you think it didn’t happen?
Are the indoctrinated pointing fingers at those who are trying to show them the truth? Place yourself at the time when Jesus walked the earth....would you have believed a hated minority or stuck with the what the accepted majority believed.....and put Jesus to death, imagining that you were doing God a favor?
You will never know unless you open your mind and heart and ask God to guide you to HIS truth. (John 6:65) You might be shocked to find out that all you have been taught to believe is nothing but lies.
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Aunty Jane
Well-Known Member
“Strange” only to those who are on the wrong road.....we actually expect these ‘strange times’ because Jesus foretold them. The kind of apostasy that undid Judaism was executed also upon Christendom, just as Jesus said when he foretold that the “weeds” would be sown in the same “field” by the same “enemy”, and would “grow together” with the genuine “wheat”until the "harvest"......but which is which?
Since only “few” are said to be on the “cramped road to life” (Matthew 7:13-14) and Jesus said that his disciples would be hated and persecuted for living up to their name.....“CHRISTians”, (John 15:18-21) ....all we have to do is step back and see who are copping all the flack as a global brotherhood, and who are fulfilling all the requirements Jesus said were necessary in order to be found “doing the will of the Father”. (Matthew 7:21-23) Calling yourself a Christian doesn’t make you one.
And God always gathered his worshippers into one body of believers, who all learn and teach the same truth, reinforcing the scripture in Ezekiel that you mentioned....
In context we can see how it applies today....
“And you, son of man, do not be afraid of them nor be afraid of their words, though briers and thorns are with you and you dwell among scorpions; do not be afraid of their words or dismayed by their looks, though they are a rebellious house. You shall speak My words to them, whether they hear or whether they refuse, for they are rebellious. But you, son of man, hear what I say to you. Do not be rebellious like that rebellious house; open your mouth and eat what I give you.” Now when I looked, there was a hand stretched out to me; and behold, a scroll of a book was in it. Then He spread it before me; and there was writing on the inside and on the outside, and written on it were lamentations and mourning and woe. (Ezekiel 2:6-10 - NKJV)
Like the “house of Israel”, his “house” is a recognized religious body. Today that “house” is Christendom whose doctrines, taken from paganism, make her part of “Babylon the great”. All her teachings can be traced back to original Babylon, the birthplace of all false religious ideas.We are told to get out of that establishment.....pronto. (Revelation 18:4-5)
Ezekiel was given visions and messages for various purposes and audiences. He had to listen carefully and then speak and act as God directed him. New information and procedures were revealed to him progressively during some 22 years of prophetic service.
Sometimes Ezekiel spoke a specially worded message. At other times, he resorted to pantomime, as in lying before a brick symbolizing Jerusalem. (Ezekiel 4:1-8)
He had to be current, always presenting the right message and taking the right action at the right time. This reminds me of what Jesus said in Matthew 24:45-46....concerning another servant who has a similar assignment....feeding his fellow slaves their “food at the proper time” or “in due season”.
“Who then is the faithful and wise servant, whom his master made ruler over his household, to give them food in due season? Blessed is that servant whom his master, when he comes, will find so doing." (NKJV)
We are now awaiting the arrival of that master in his capacity as King and appointed judge of all the earth at the end of these last days......we are witnessing the lead up to the foretold end of this entire world system. Its all happening exactly as Jesus said it would. The greatest tribulation in man's history will take us to Armageddon and the wiping clean of a very dirty slate, to start again.....lessons learned, precedents set, God's Sovereignty vindicated for all time to come, and a restoration of God's original purpose for this earth and the living souls he created to inhabit it.
So not “strange” if we know what we are looking at. Luke 21:28 gives us reason to rejoice.
What is Biblical Unitarianism? | GotQuestions.orgI have lost count of the number of times I have addressed this scripture....but for the benefit of those who say we never address it....here it is again...
The title “the Alpha and the Omega” applies to “the Almighty”, stressing that there was no Almighty God before him and that there will be none after him. He is “the beginning and the end.” (Revelation 21:6; Revelation 22:13) Although Yahweh is referred to as “the first and the last” at Revelation 22:13 (that there is none before or after him) the context in the first chapter of Revelation shows that the title “the First and the Last” there applies to Jesus Christ. (that he was the first human to be resurrected to immortal spirit life and the last one to be so resurrected by His Father personally. (Colossians 1:18)
So here we have rather ambiguous titles, not actual names and these titles can apply equally to both Father and son for a number of reasons. There is no unequivocal statement anywhere in the entire Bible that says that Jesus is God Almighty, or even equal to him in any way. There is not a single statement from either God or his son claiming what Christendom believes.
Also, the term “the First [“pro’tos”, not “alpha”] and the Last [“e’skha·tos”, not “omega”] occurs at Revelation 1:17-18 and 2:8. In these verses, the context shows that the one referred to died and later returned to life. Thus, these verses cannot refer to God because he has never died. (Habakkuk 1:12) However, Jesus died and was resurrected. (Acts 3:13-15)
The speaker at Revelation 22:13 is not specifically identified, and there are various speakers in this chapter, making it very difficult to be sure who is the actual speaker. So like all references to Jesus in the Christian scriptures, there is no clear statement confirming what the church came to believe....that the son is somehow also God. I say this because the actual doctrine of the trinity was not officially introduced into the Catholic Church until the 4th century after Jesus died. It is not taught in scripture. “The church” introduced many other doctrines that were not biblical in origin, and many of these remain to this day.....lost in time and accepted without question.
If Jesus foretold that Christianity would be corrupted in the same way that Judaism was, due to negligent and power hungry leadership, looking back in history, the corruption is clearly evident.
We all need to examine what we believe and who told us that it was the truth....?
The Jews were desperate to pin a charge of blasphemy on him because it was a capital offence in Judaism, and the scriptures reveal that the Romans knew that Jesus had broken no Roman law, so bringing this very serious Jewish law into play they hoped it would give them the excuse they needed to get rid of this trouble maker.
When Pilate refused to cooperate with their scheme, the crowd threatened to report him to Caesar for treason. He washed his hands of the whole affair and even had Jesus flogged to appease them. How can you not know these things that are clearly stated in the Bible?
Read John 10:31-36.....what did Jesus call himself? If he was God, here was a perfect opportunity to confirm it as the Jews had accused him of claiming to be God anyway.....confirming his position as “the son of God”, Jesus did not ever say that he was God incarnate.
The scriptures used to *prove* that “Jesus is God” are all suggestions....based on interpretation of ambiguous verses that can be read according to original language, in other ways. This is why your own personal study is important.
The favoured *proof* text in John 1:1, does not say in Greek what is translated into English.
I can show you if you are interested. Not holding my breath, however. :
We all know about “indoctrination”.....but what if the real indoctrination took place centuries ago, and that what people assume is “Christianity” today, is nothing but the devil’s Counterfeit? It was prophesied by Jesus himself....so do you think it didn’t happen?
Are the indoctrinated pointing fingers at those who are trying to show them the truth? Place yourself at the time Jesus when walked the earth....would you have believed a hated minority and stuck with the what the accepted majority believed.....and put Jesus to death, imagining that you were doing God a favor?
You will never know unless you open your mind and heart and ask God to guide you to HIS truth. (John 6:65) You might be shocked to find out that all you have been taught to believe is nothing but lies.
Aunty Jane
Well-Known Member
That does not describe my beliefs....I believe what the Bible says about who God is, and who Jesus is, and what the Holy Spirit is.
Please find me one direct statement in the Bible where either Jesus or his Father tell us unambiguously that they are equal parts of the same godhead along with the Holy Spirit.
You cannot build a doctrine on inference or suggestion. The trinity depends on both.
Please read our Statement of Faith re: the Trinity. This is a Trinity affirming Christian forum and our SoF has been updated and clarified as per the changing environment re: growing membership and times we are living in. Statement on the Trinity
BeyondET
Well-Known Member
Don't mean to be rude but if every believer has the Holy Spirit in them that is alot more than one Holy Spirit or is it divided into millions millions, imo 3 is a little small of a number
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Deuteronomy 4:39, Job 34:21, Isaiah 57:15, Jeremiah 23:23-24, Psalm 11:4, Psalms 139:2, Psalms 139:7-10, Matthew 6:6, Matthew 10:29-30
Luke 17:21, 1 Corinthians 12:13, Hebrews 4:13, Revelation 21:3 The Spirit of God is omnipresent. He is everywhere at once.
Numerous scriptures have been provided in these discussions but they are dismissed or not addressed
What practical impact does that have on non-trinitarian Christian members of the forum?
You are welcome to fellowship here. There are other topics to discuss other than the Trinity that you may find commonality with. You are welcome to ask questions about the Trinity and anything regarding it. You do not have to agree with the doctrine of the Trinity however, any anti-trinitarian threads will be either deleted, or moved to the appropriate forum. This is a closed-handed issue as stated by the original owner and creator of CyB.
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