Does "LAW" matter?

[Truth]

Orthodoxy says "The Law" (however you consider it) does not apply today, at all. How do you see it? Why are any commands even mentioned in the New Testament?

Well! from what I understand, God the Father said that there would come A time when the Torah would not be on tablet's of Stone. Stone would relate to the Hardness of people's hearts, imo, then that they would be written on the Heart's of those that Love Him, and I would say that would happen when anyone Accepted the Gift Of Salvation, For God so Loved the World, He Loved Us First, so in return we also should Love Him, and if we Love Him!!! Our Savior declared, If You Love Me Keep My Commandment's! The World has a enmity toward being under any Authority from a GOD! Man doesn't want to be controlled by any form of decency. You can see this with the perversion that exist's today.
We know when we fall short of even the 10 Commandment's, WHY, because they are written on our Heart's, so the Spirit move's us to realize the stumble, we repent and pick are selves up and continue. So with that all said, Yes the Law still does apply today, as we try to Walk Uprightly Before the Lord! what the Law could not do was control people's, it was weak in that it was a demand Command, now it is a choice, You Laid down Your Life, an Innocent Righteous Man, Just For ME, I will do Anything that You Ask me to Do, how could I refuse You who Granted me Life, through Grace and Mercy! The Law of the Bond Slave- I Love My Master, I Love the Wife and Children My Master has Given me, so out Of Love I will not go out a Free Man, I will Serve my Master for as Long as I Live- Hopefully for Eternity

 

[Helen]

Yes agree....Love is our restraint. If the life shows no restraint , love does not live there.

 

[Truth]

Even with respect to the future millennial era, there is never any detailed discussion of ethical cause and effect in our forum discussions. There is no detailed discussion of how Jesus Christ will rule on earth through His people. Will there still be politics? Will government be entirely bureaucratic?

What laws will Jesus require governments to enforce? What penalties will be imposed? Will civil judges and juries still hand down sentences? How will appeals be conducted? Will the line of justice-seekers in front of Jesus' headquarters be a thousand times longer than the line in front of Moses' tent (Exo. 18:13)? We are not told — not by by anyone I have ever heard discuss it, anyway.

Good Question-- If you are speaking about the time when we are in the realm, which some call Heaven, I think that there will not be long lines, for everyone will know the Truth, our so called mental capacities will no longer be limited!

For an example, My brother made many lie's about me, and I could not bring myself to try to explain this to my dad, in other words I could not bring a railing accusation against my brother, which is a Commandment written on my heart, so when my dad would question me, I would say, dad there will come a time when you will know the Truth, for nothing hidden, will not be uncovered, everything done in secret will be revealed!

 

[charity]

Orthodoxy says "The Law" (however you consider it) does not apply today, at all. How do you see it? Why are any commands even mentioned in the New Testament?

@Truth, @Windmillcharge, @"ByGrace", @amadeus, @bbyrd009

Hello there, @Willie T ,
Reading through this thread has been a pleasure, for it has not been combative, but constructive. Thank you.

Paul, speaking to those who know the law (ie., his own countrymen) in Romans chapter seven, says, that the law itself is 'holy, just and good', and that it is, 'spiritual', it has the ability to act as a plumb-line, against which measure, sin becomes 'exceedingly sinful'. It brings man to the realization, like Paul, that 'in me dwelleth no good thing', for man is 'carnal', 'sold under sin', incapable of meeting it's standard.

As a gentile I was never under the law, so Paul is not speaking to me here. For me there is no struggle between law and grace, for I have only ever known the grace of God, but I do have what all men have to measure myself by, and that is the law of conscience (Acts 24:16).

You ask, 'Why are any commands even mentioned in the New Testament?' I would suggest it is because the New Testament is an extension of the Old Testament, and that the enlightenment of the nation of Israel was it's primary objective until the end of the Acts period. For it is God's intention that Israel should be a nation of Priests (Exod. 19:6), and that through them the gentile nations will be brought to enlightenment. This will now happen at the end of the age (Matt. 24:14), when through redeemed Israel, 'the gospel of the Kingdom' will again be preached.

In Christ Jesus
Chris

 

[bbyrd009]

to that i would say "heaven forbid."

 

[Willie T]

to that i would say "heaven forbid."

As do I.

 

[bbyrd009]

@Willie T, @bbyrd009

Why do you react in this manner to someone who has taken the trouble to enter a response? Why don't you have the courtesy to answer directly, with politeness at the very least? As a child of my Father, am I not worth that in your eyes?

In Christ Jesus
Chris

ah, i meant to Quote Paul there, where he puts this to bed, not so much to make a comment per se.

As a gentile I was never under the law, so Paul is not speaking to me here

but this demonstrates a misunderstanding of law imo; where was this that Gentiles were never under any law again?
you were not under the law before you found grace?
if your house got robbed you would not call the police, is this what you mean?
are you sure you're not "under the law," right now?

 

[bbyrd009]

When did "not under the law" come to mean "i don't have to obey the law any more?"
of course we were never under ancient Israeli law, but these are nonetheless invoked for some reason,
even though Paul never referred to them
i guess so ppl can dismiss Paul?

Romans 6:15 Lexicon: What then? Shall we sin because we are not under law but under grace? May it never be!
Paul knew the words for those laws, yet he did not use them
Strong's Greek: 3551. νόμος (nomos) -- that which is assigned, hence usage, law
and fwiw i guess virtually no 1st century Jews were keeping them anyway, contrary to the impression we are usually given.
Jubilee was kept like maybe once, etc.

So iow "law" is poorly defined, for all of us i guess, me included

 

[Willie T]

I would like us each to go down through this list, and although it is obvious that many of these would not pertain to people who are no longer under a system of sacrifice, can any of us say all these laws should be thrown out?

I think most of us already live by many of them in our everyday lives as Christians.

The Law: All 613 Commandments!

 

[Phoneman777]

Antinomialists are positively the most cognitively challenged people in church. Ask one of them, "Didja hear that the legislature repealed the law last week?" and he will immediately understand that you aren't referring to every law on the books, but that a particular law is repealed, while the rest remain intact and enforced.

But, when Antinomialists read in the Bible, "the law was nailed to the Cross", for some strange reason they absurdly conclude every law in the Bible is gone and that the only negative fallout for behavior contrary to the law that used to exist is fewer jewels in their heavenly crown.

 

[charity]

ah, i meant to Quote Paul there, where he puts this to bed, not so much to make a comment per se.

but this demonstrates a misunderstanding of law imo; where was this that Gentiles were never under any law again?
you were not under the law before you found grace?
if your house got robbed you would not call the police, is this what you mean?
are you sure you're not "under the law," right now?

Hello @bbyrd009,

The only nation given the laws of Sinai was Israel, as part of the Old Covenant, that was my meaning, nothing more.

In Christ Jesus
Chris

 

[bbyrd009]

The only nation given the laws of Sinai was Israel, as part of the Old Covenant, that was my meaning, nothing more.

Are you saying the Ten Commandments don't apply to you?

but there was, is a common word for that law that Paul did not use; he used nomos instead
Strong's Greek: 3551. νόμος (nomos) -- that which is assigned, hence usage, law

and that is just part 1; the second 5 of the Decalogue were around in Babylon, and surely predate Hammurabi.

 

[charity]

Are you saying the Ten Commandments don't apply to you?

but there was, is a common word for that law that Paul did not use; he used nomos instead
Strong's Greek: 3551. νόμος (nomos) -- that which is assigned, hence usage, law

and that is just part 1; the second 5 of the Decalogue were around in Babylon, and surely predate Hammurabi.

The law covers more than the 10 commandments, doesn't it? But, yes, the law as contained in the Pentateuch was not given to any nation other than Israel. It was incumbent upon them to 'keep' it, for it was part of a covenant made between God and Israel.

In Christ Jesus
Chris

 

[Josho]

Orthodoxy says "The Law" (however you consider it) does not apply today, at all. How do you see it? Why are any commands even mentioned in the New Testament?

I believe all of the 10 commandments fall under the 2 commandments Jesus gave, love the Lord your God and love thy neighbour, but when we are talking about Law, the Law was much broader than the 10 commandments, it included circumcision, only eating certain foods, strictly no work on the Sabbath, parts of the Tabernacle others could not be entered unless if you were a high priest, if someone had leprosy they had to be brought to a priest, laws of how to do different sacrifices, and there's lots more you can find in Leviticus, and that's was the Law. But Jesus than came to fulfill the Law, when Jesus died on the cross as the ultimate sacrifice, the curtain in the temple was torn into two, and i believe there was a great symbolical significance when the curtain ripped in the temple, when the curtain ripped it was a sign that any Jew and Gentile who believed in Jesus is allowed into the Holy of Holys, they were now allowed to enter the presence of God, the Old Testament temple was finished and the new temple is the believer who had accepted Jesus as their Lord and Savior. So the Old Law structure and rigmarole was finished, Jesus paid for our sins, and by doing that he fulfilled the Law, the structure, the lengthy procedures, and there now is the much easier New Covenant of Jesus, the New Covenant of love, grace and forgiveness.

And why did the curtain rip into 2, why not 3, why not 4? Was it the separation of the Old and the New? The Old Testament man (Israelite) gaining his Salvation through works, through following each and every procedure of the Law to please God, The New Testament man (Jew and Gentile) being rewarded with Salvation through Faith in Jesus Christ, Salvation being only for Israel in the Old, Salvation made available for both Jew and Gentile in the New. So I believe it is greatly symbolic, just from the fact the curtain ripped into two when Jesus was crucified.

So does the Law apply for today? The Law has already been fulfilled by Jesus on the cross.

Do commands apply for today? New Testament commands certainly, Love your God and Love Thy Neighbor and everything else Jesus instructed falls under those 2 New Testament Commandments. But following these commandments of Jesus is done not by works of the flesh, but faith, trusting in God to help you in all situations & help make your paths straight, by trusting in Jesus to help us keep focus on Him (Jesus), we will still sin of course, because we are not perfect and no one can stay focused on Jesus all the time when they are living on this planet, it only takes a moment when someone takes their eyes of Jesus for them to sin, but when there is more reliance and trust in Jesus there is a lot less sin, to follow those 2 commandments well is to say humbly to God "Lord, I cannot do this on my own, I need your help Lord Jesus. Help me to Love, help me to live in your ways, help me to be wise." You cannot turn away from sin by doing it in your own human effort, you need God's grace and forgiveness, and God's help.

 

[Willie T]

I believe all of the 10 commandments fall under the 2 commandments Jesus gave, love the Lord your God and love thy neighbour, but when we are talking about Law, the Law was much broader than the 10 commandments, it included circumcision, only eating certain foods, strictly no work on the Sabbath, parts of the Tabernacle others could not be entered unless if you were a high priest, if someone had leprosy they had to be brought to a priest, laws of how to do different sacrifices, and there's lots more you can find in Leviticus, and that's was the Law. But Jesus than came to fulfill the Law, when Jesus died on the cross as the ultimate sacrifice, the curtain in the temple was torn into two, and i believe there was a great symbolical significance when the curtain ripped in the temple, when the curtain ripped it was a sign that any Jew and Gentile who believed in Jesus is allowed into the Holy of Holys, they were now allowed to enter the presence of God, the Old Testament temple was finished and the new temple is the believer who had accepted Jesus as their Lord and Savior. So the Old Law structure and rigmarole was finished, Jesus paid for our sins, and by doing that he fulfilled the Law, the structure, the lengthy procedures, and there now is the much easier New Covenant of Jesus, the New Covenant of love, grace and forgiveness.

And why did the curtain rip into 2, why not 3, why not 4? Was it the separation of the Old and the New? The Old Testament man (Israelite) gaining his Salvation through works, through following each and every procedure of the Law to please God, The New Testament man (Jew and Gentile) being rewarded with Salvation through Faith in Jesus Christ, Salvation being only for Israel in the Old, Salvation made available for both Jew and Gentile in the New. So I believe it is greatly symbolic, just from the fact the curtain ripped into two when Jesus was crucified.

So does the Law apply for today? The Law has already been fulfilled by Jesus on the cross.

Do commands apply for today? New Testament commands certainly, Love your God and Love Thy Neighbor and everything else Jesus instructed falls under those 2 New Testament Commandments. But following these commandments of Jesus is done not by works of the flesh, but faith, trusting in God to help you in all situations & help make your paths straight, by trusting in Jesus to help us keep focus on Him (Jesus), we will still sin of course, because we are not perfect and no one can stay focused on Jesus all the time when they are living on this planet, it only takes a moment when someone takes their eyes of Jesus for them to sin, but when there is more reliance and trust in Jesus there is a lot less sin, to follow those 2 commandments well is to say humbly to God "Lord, I cannot do this on my own, I need your help Lord Jesus. Help me to Love, help me to live in your ways, help me to be wise." You cannot turn away from sin by doing it in your own human effort, you need God's grace and forgiveness, and God's help.

I take it you have not looked at the list I posted in post #29?

 

[bbyrd009]

The law covers more than the 10 commandments, doesn't it?

the laws (re)given at Sinai? no. But regardless, pick whatever "law" you like, it had a name, that Paul was familiar with--you would have to say "knew by heart" even.

I see you avoided the Q of whether the Decalogue applies to you or not

 

[bbyrd009]

But, yes, the law as contained in the Pentateuch was not given to any nation other than Israel.

ah, what is your source for this? ty
"
Israel's Codes of Conduct Compared to Surrounding Nations
www.crivoice.org › Bible Topics › Historical and Cultural Context
Mar 25, 2013 - Yet, Israelites were not the only people of the Ancient Near East who had such codes of conduct. Much of what is contained in Israelite codes can be found in other cultures, some pre-dating the Old Testament by centuries. Often these are attributed to..."

my understanding is that Israel lost their copy of Deuteronomy lol, at least for a few generations

 

[bbyrd009]

But, yes, the law as contained in the Pentateuch was not given to any nation other than Israel. It was incumbent upon them to 'keep' it, for it was part of a covenant made between God and Israel.

gee then you'd think that Paul--a former Zealot--would have been careful to use the term that applied to that law, wouldn't you?

 

[Josho]

I take it you have not looked at the list I posted in post #29?

Well good on that person for going through the effort to list them all out. All I can say to that, is thank God we aren't living in Old Testament days.

 

[bbyrd009]

ok Josho, keep telling yourself that if it helps

might help if you stated a difference or something maybe
a functional difference