Don't deny the Rapture and be left behind!!!

[Taken]

Noah was delivered from God's Wrath = 100% TRUTH = 100% AMEN

Noah was not pre-trib raptured = Noah endured the Greatest Tribulation the world had seen.

I was not saying Noah was pre-Trib raptured.
But refer to This…regarding Noah…

Gen 7:
[17] And the flood was forty days upon the earth; and the waters increased, and bare up the ark, and it was lift up above the earth.
[18] And the waters prevailed, and were increased greatly upon the earth; and the ark went upon the face of the waters.
[19] And the waters prevailed exceedingly upon the earth; and all the high hills, that were under the whole heaven, were covered.
[20] Fifteen cubits upward did the waters prevail; and the mountains were covered.


Noah didn’t go through the tribulation on the Earth. Noah was lifted up above the Earth.
If you have ever been 15 cubits above the mountain peaks…you are in the clouds.

Nothing new under the sun, what was shall be again.

Trib from Heaven begins with the Lambs Wrath (7 seals). Why would the Lamb be angry with a man Converted IN Christ, that such a man would be appointed to the Lambs Wrath?


1Thes 5:
[9] For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ,

? In Christ have already obtained their gift of Salvation. Yes?

 

[David in NJ]

The resurrection happens at death, your flesh will not rise , it's over and done with , back to dust never to be needed again.

If one believes people are still in the ground , they must believe that Christ is as well. Why is it so hard to believe that at death we do the exact thing that He did . It's written

I Thessalonians 4:13 "But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope."

What's the subject in the above verse ?

This concern is over "them which are asleep". The concern is over the loved ones that have died and left them, and their decaying bodies are out there in their grave. Paul is saying for us not to be sorry about those Christians who are dead and gone, for that is the concern of the heathen. The heathen's fear comes from their ignorance of God's word, and His promises. The heathen have no hope, for they believe it's over at the burial.

I Thessalonians 4:14 "For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him."

If we believe, as a Christian, that Christ set the example for us; so that we will follow as He did, in dying, and rising again, then "to sleep" is to be dead from the flesh body. The Greek is a simple language, for it's structure allows one to be more precise. The subject in the frame of this verse is; "that ye not be ignorant as to where the dead are." If you're a Christian, you know and believe that Jesus Christ died, was buried, and on the third day arose and came out of the tomb. If you do not believe this, Paul classifies you as ignorant, and heathen [non-believer].

Even those who died before Christ were not in no dust in the ground , I mean who did He go preach to?

I Peter 3:19 "By which also He went and preached unto the spirits in prison,"

These spirits that Christ preached to in prison, were the spirits of the saints that died prior to His death on the cross.

YES, i know that when our bodies die our spirit goes to Heaven = this is crystal clear especially in Revelation.

When Christ Returns, He brings us back with Him for the Resurrection of those dead bodies in the graves which will be transformed into Glorious Immortal Bodies.

 

[David in NJ]

I was not saying Noah was pre-Trib raptured.
But refer to This…regarding Noah…

Gen 7:
[17] And the flood was forty days upon the earth; and the waters increased, and bare up the ark, and it was lift up above the earth.
[18] And the waters prevailed, and were increased greatly upon the earth; and the ark went upon the face of the waters.
[19] And the waters prevailed exceedingly upon the earth; and all the high hills, that were under the whole heaven, were covered.
[20] Fifteen cubits upward did the waters prevail; and the mountains were covered.


Noah didn’t go through the tribulation on the Earth. Noah was lifted up above the Earth.
If you have ever been 15 cubits above the mountain peaks…you are in the clouds.

Nothing new under the sun, what was shall be again.

Trib from Heaven begins with the Lambs Wrath (7 seals). Why would the Lamb be angry with a man Converted IN Christ, that such a man would be appointed to the Lambs Wrath?


1Thes 5:
[9] For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ,

? In Christ have already obtained their gift of Salvation. Yes?

Noah 100% went thru the Greatest Tribulation the world had seen.

Noah was lifted ABOVE the Wrath of God = the Flood.

The Flood was the Wrath of God = it was not the Great Tribulation that covered the earth prior to the Flood.

Follow every detailed step from 1 Thessalonians beginning with 1:10

and to await His Son from heaven, whom He raised from the dead—Jesus our deliverer from the coming wrath.

Just as Noah was delivered from God's Wrath = the Flood.

 

[strepho]

I respect other people's beliefs. The rapture is false doctrine, Ezekiel chapter 13 to document. Everyone is is entitled to believe what they want. Second thessalonians chapter 2:10. And with all deception of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved. 2:11. And for this cause God shall send them strong delusions; that they should believe a lie. The strong delusions are here. Some people have spirit of slumber. Those who worshipped antichrist in the flesh. Will be in their spiritual body at the 7th trump, millennium. During millennium the spirtualty dead will be taught God's word. The millennium is time of teaching and discipline for the spirtualty dead. I'm not judging anyone or criticizing anyone. Ephesians chapter 6, wisdom and knowledge of Gods word makes up the gospel armour. The gospel armour is only way past antichrist lies and deception near future.

 

[David in NJ]

I respect other people's beliefs. The rapture is false doctrine, Ezekiel chapter 13 to document. Everyone is is entitled to believe what they want. Second thessalonians chapter 2:10. And with all deception of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved. 2:11. And for this cause God shall send them strong delusions; that they should believe a lie. The strong delusions are here. Some people have spirit of slumber. Those who worshipped antichrist in the flesh. Will be in their spiritual body at the 7th trump, millennium. During millennium the spirtualty dead will be taught God's word. The millennium is time of teaching and discipline for the spirtualty dead. I'm not judging anyone or criticizing anyone. Ephesians chapter 6, wisdom and knowledge of Gods word makes up the gospel armour. The gospel armour is only way past antichrist lies and deception near future.

The Rapture is 100% TRUTH

pre-trib rapture is 100% falsehood

 

[David in NJ]

The resurrection happens at death, your flesh will not rise , it's over and done with , back to dust never to be needed again.

If one believes people are still in the ground , they must believe that Christ is as well. Why is it so hard to believe that at death we do the exact thing that He did . It's written

I Thessalonians 4:13 "But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope."

What's the subject in the above verse ?

This concern is over "them which are asleep". The concern is over the loved ones that have died and left them, and their decaying bodies are out there in their grave. Paul is saying for us not to be sorry about those Christians who are dead and gone, for that is the concern of the heathen. The heathen's fear comes from their ignorance of God's word, and His promises. The heathen have no hope, for they believe it's over at the burial.

I Thessalonians 4:14 "For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him."

If we believe, as a Christian, that Christ set the example for us; so that we will follow as He did, in dying, and rising again, then "to sleep" is to be dead from the flesh body. The Greek is a simple language, for it's structure allows one to be more precise. The subject in the frame of this verse is; "that ye not be ignorant as to where the dead are." If you're a Christian, you know and believe that Jesus Christ died, was buried, and on the third day arose and came out of the tomb. If you do not believe this, Paul classifies you as ignorant, and heathen [non-believer].

Even those who died before Christ were not in no dust in the ground , I mean who did He go preach to?

I Peter 3:19 "By which also He went and preached unto the spirits in prison,"

These spirits that Christ preached to in prison, were the spirits of the saints that died prior to His death on the cross.

Isaiah 26:19
Your dead will live; their bodies will rise.
Awake and sing, you who dwell in the dust!
For your dew is like the dew of the morning,
and the earth will bring forth her dead.

Daniel 12:1-3
At that time Michael, the great prince who stands watch over your people, will rise up. There will be a time of distress, the likes of which will not have occurred from the beginning of nations until that time. But at that time your people—everyone whose name is found written in the book—will be delivered.

And many who sleep in the dust of the earth will awake, some to everlasting life, but others to shame and everlasting contempt. Then the wise will shine like the brightness of the heavens, and those who lead many to righteousness will shine like the stars forever and ever.

 

[David in NJ]

I was not saying Noah was pre-Trib raptured.
But refer to This…regarding Noah…

Gen 7:
[17] And the flood was forty days upon the earth; and the waters increased, and bare up the ark, and it was lift up above the earth.
[18] And the waters prevailed, and were increased greatly upon the earth; and the ark went upon the face of the waters.
[19] And the waters prevailed exceedingly upon the earth; and all the high hills, that were under the whole heaven, were covered.
[20] Fifteen cubits upward did the waters prevail; and the mountains were covered.


Noah didn’t go through the tribulation on the Earth. Noah was lifted up above the Earth.
If you have ever been 15 cubits above the mountain peaks…you are in the clouds.

Nothing new under the sun, what was shall be again.

Trib from Heaven begins with the Lambs Wrath (7 seals). Why would the Lamb be angry with a man Converted IN Christ, that such a man would be appointed to the Lambs Wrath?


1Thes 5:
[9] For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ,

? In Christ have already obtained their gift of Salvation. Yes?

see Posts 119 and 126

 

[David in NJ]

I was not saying Noah was pre-Trib raptured.
But refer to This…regarding Noah…

Gen 7:
[17] And the flood was forty days upon the earth; and the waters increased, and bare up the ark, and it was lift up above the earth.
[18] And the waters prevailed, and were increased greatly upon the earth; and the ark went upon the face of the waters.
[19] And the waters prevailed exceedingly upon the earth; and all the high hills, that were under the whole heaven, were covered.
[20] Fifteen cubits upward did the waters prevail; and the mountains were covered.


Noah didn’t go through the tribulation on the Earth. Noah was lifted up above the Earth.
If you have ever been 15 cubits above the mountain peaks…you are in the clouds.

Nothing new under the sun, what was shall be again.

Trib from Heaven begins with the Lambs Wrath (7 seals). Why would the Lamb be angry with a man Converted IN Christ, that such a man would be appointed to the Lambs Wrath?


1Thes 5:
[9] For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ,

? In Christ have already obtained their gift of Salvation. Yes?

Good Nite Brother

 

[Enoch111]

Enoch was "taken Up" just as Christ was "taken Up" = Enoch only represents Christ

This is just a nonsensical statement. "Just as Christ was taken up" is totally false. Anyone who reads of the glorious ascension of Christ in the presence of, and with the worship of, His disciples will tell you this is nonsense. However, Enoch was a saint of God, and just as he was on earth at one moment and was in Heaven the next moment, so will the Church be in Heaven. No hangin' around for any Tribulation or any such thing.

 

[Enoch111]

Does the Rapture occur before or after His Second Coming?

The Rapture must occur before the Second Coming for the simply reason that the Marriage of the Lamb is also before the Second Coming. All the saints will be in Heaven for the Marriage of the Lamb. Then they will descend with Christ at His Second Coming.

 

[Gottservant]

The thing you have to remember, is that the Rapture was foreshadowed at the Cross.

People came out of the graves, and didn't have to change clothes at all.

The Rapture will be the same, what we hunger for, will be irrelevant.

 

[David in NJ]

The Rapture must occur before the Second Coming for the simply reason that the Marriage of the Lamb is also before the Second Coming. All the saints will be in Heaven for the Marriage of the Lamb. Then they will descend with Christ at His Second Coming.

Brother, your statement goes against Scripture = against the Truth

There is no such thing as a rapture before the Second Coming of Christ.

There is not a single passage of scripture that declares a pre-trib rapture or any rapture before His Second Coming.


Not only is this nonsensical it is IMPOSSIBLE according to Matthew ch24, 1 & 2 Thess , 1 John , OT Prophets and Revelation.

1 Thess 3:13 That He may establish your hearts in blamelessness and holiness before our God and Father at the coming of our Lord Jesus with all His saints

1 Thess 4:13-18
Brothers, we do not want you to be uninformed about those who sleep in death, so that you will not grieve like the rest, who are without hope. For since we believe that Jesus died and rose again, we also believe that
God will bring with Jesus those who have fallen asleep/died in Him.
By the word of the Lord, we declare to you that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who have fallen asleep/died.
For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a loud command, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God, and the dead in Christ will be the first to rise.
After that, we who are alive and remain will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will always be with the Lord.

 

[rockytopva]

Remember Lot's wife. - Luke 17:32

 

[Enoch111]

Not only is this nonsensical it is IMPOSSIBLE according to Matthew ch24, 1 & 2 Thess , 1 John , OT Prophets and Revelation.

Just because you have a problem in properly interpreting those passages does not mean that others have the same problem. For example Matthew 24 has absolutely nothing to say about the Rapture of the Church. So why did you bring it up? And 1 John 3:1-3 plainly reveals a Pre-Tribulation Rapture. So does 1 & 2 Thessalonians. But when you approach Scripture with biased preconceptions, you will never arrive at the truth.

 

[Sabertooth]

It is ridiculous (and not Biblically-supported) to declare that otherwise faithful Christians will not be included in the Rapture just because they lack clarity in how it is to be fulfilled. That can be said for ALL of eschatology.

Pray for pre-. Prepare for post-.

 

[St. SteVen]

I don’t think “denying” the rapture will get you left behind. Denying Jesus will get that done….

I agree. That's the way to look at this.

A rapture will accomplish its purpose despite whether we understand, or believe in it.

Some actually believe the believers will be left behind at the beginning of the Millennium.
The unbelievers will be the ones raptured out.

 

[Taken]

The Rapture is 100% TRUTH

pre-trib rapture is 100% falsehood

I think many times when people are discussing Scripture it results in disagreement; Because they are not in agreement of what WORDS Mean.

For Example;
Tribulation…basic means affliction
(People for multiple reasons suffer afflictions)

Tribulation…delineated as Great Tribulation, IMO, is notice, that it is an affliction expressly sanctioned BY The Lord God Himself, as Judgements /Testing upon the Earth and the inhabitants thereof.

For Example;
Rapture…basic means bodily risen up
(People all the time bodily rise up…from sleeping to awake, from ocean skin diving to earth, from grave body exhumed)

Rapture…expressly risen from Earth TO the Clouds;
IMO expressly is in regard to Bodys rising up From the Earth TO Above the Earth.
** WHAT Specific Body's?
Expressly Body’s that were Crucified WITH Christ Jesus.
** WHY?
They already willingly Gave their Body’s unto Death For their Belief IN the Lord God.

Gods GREAT Tribulation is a series of specific Judgements Against and Upon People ON the Earth WHO have MADE NO Dedication of their BODY to become DEAD expressly for their Love and Belief IN the Lord God.

All mens Body's SHALL Die…God requires that.

All men have FREEWILL TO give their Body unto Death For their love and belief IN the Lord God …or Not.

During the Days of Gods Great Tribulations…iT’s a signal….Notice….To occupants upon the Earth…Time for Deciding, Choosing, to give one’s Body to God, (or Not) is coming to an End.

Rapture is Bodys Rising Above the Earth To the Clouds.
Resurrection is Bodys Rising From IN the Earth (graves, dust of the earth) TO the Face of the Earth.

See the Difference of where body’s ARE to Where they are Risen TO?
See the Difference of WHY?

God Bless,
Taken

 

[Gottservant]

You guys need to remember that the Rapture was Foreshadowed at the Cross.

That's where the Devil, starts all his arguments.

 

[David in NJ]

I think many times when people are discussing Scripture it results in disagreement; Because they are not in agreement of what WORDS Mean.

For Example;
Tribulation…basic means affliction
(People for multiple reasons suffer afflictions)

Tribulation…delineated as Great Tribulation, IMO, is notice, that it is an affliction expressly sanctioned BY The Lord God Himself, as Judgements /Testing upon the Earth and the inhabitants thereof.

For Example;
Rapture…basic means bodily risen up
(People all the time bodily rise up…from sleeping to awake, from ocean skin diving to earth, from grave body exhumed)

Rapture…expressly risen from Earth TO the Clouds;
IMO expressly is in regard to Bodys rising up From the Earth TO Above the Earth.
** WHAT Specific Body's?
Expressly Body’s that were Crucified WITH Christ Jesus.
** WHY?
They already willingly Gave their Body’s unto Death For their Belief IN the Lord God.

Gods GREAT Tribulation is a series of specific Judgements Against and Upon People ON the Earth WHO have MADE NO Dedication of their BODY to become DEAD expressly for their Love and Belief IN the Lord God.

All mens Body's SHALL Die…God requires that.

All men have FREEWILL TO give their Body unto Death For their love and belief IN the Lord God …or Not.

During the Days of Gods Great Tribulations…iT’s a signal….Notice….To occupants upon the Earth…Time for Deciding, Choosing, to give one’s Body to God, (or Not) is coming to an End.

Rapture is Bodys Rising Above the Earth To the Clouds.
Resurrection is Bodys Rising From IN the Earth (graves, dust of the earth) TO the Face of the Earth.

See the Difference of where body’s ARE to Where they are Risen TO?
See the Difference of WHY?

God Bless,
Taken

God's words are the most important element for our Salvation and understanding.

If we change just a word in His word it can change the meaning of a sentence and the Truth can be changed into a lie.
Sanctify them by the truth; Your word is truth.

The Tribulation is not God's Wrath upon the Saints.
Jesus, the Gospel, the OT Prophets and the Apostles make a clear distinction between Tribulation and God's Wrath.

John 16:33 - I have told you these things so that in Me you may have peace. In the world you will have tribulation.
But take courage; I have overcome the world!”

Romans 5:3 - we also glory in tribulations, knowing that tribulation produces perseverance; and perseverance, character; and character, hope. Now hope does not disappoint, because the love of God has been poured out in our hearts by the Holy Spirit who was given to us.

1 Thess 3:3 that no one should be shaken by these afflictions; for you yourselves know that we are appointed to this.
For, in fact, we told you before when we were with you that we would suffer tribulation, just as it happened, and you know.

1 Peter 4:12 - Beloved, do not think it strange concerning the fiery trial which is to try you, as though some strange thing happened to you; but rejoice to the extent that you partake of Christ’s sufferings, that when His glory is revealed, you may also be glad with exceeding great joy.

Matthew ch24
And Jesus answered and said to them: “Take heed that no one deceives you. For many will come in My name, saying, ‘I am the Christ,’ and will deceive many. And you will hear of wars and rumors of wars. See that you are not troubled; for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet. For nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom. And there will be famines, pestilences, and earthquakes in various places. All these are the beginning of sorrows.

“Then they will deliver you up to tribulation and kill you, and you will be hated by all nations for My name’s sake.
And then many will be offended, will betray one another, and will hate one another. Then many false prophets will rise up and deceive many. And because lawlessness will abound, the love of many will grow cold. But he who endures to the end shall be saved

“Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. Then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. And He will send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they will gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

Like NOAH, we will suffer Tribulation but we will not suffer God's Wrath.
"and to wait for His Son from heaven, whom He raised from the dead, even Jesus who delivers us from the wrath to come."

Tribulation will be in the world and will be Great Tribulation when the Antichrist is revealed = this is not God's Wrath.

 

[David in NJ]

Just because you have a problem in properly interpreting those passages does not mean that others have the same problem. For example Matthew 24 has absolutely nothing to say about the Rapture of the Church. So why did you bring it up? And 1 John 3:1-3 plainly reveals a Pre-Tribulation Rapture. So does 1 & 2 Thessalonians. But when you approach Scripture with biased preconceptions, you will never arrive at the truth.

Brother - you just spoke a complete LIE by saying: "example Matthew 24 has absolutely nothing to say about the Rapture of the Church."

JESUS was speaking to His Bride/Church Elect, and to us, in Matthew ch24

ERROR #2 - "1 John 3:1-3 plainly reveals a Pre-Tribulation Rapture."

ERROR #3 & #4 - "So does 1 & 2 Thessalonians."

TRUTH = Matthew 24:3 Now as He sat on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to Him privately, saying, “Tell us, when will these things be? And what will be the sign of Your coming, and of the end of the age?”

TRUTH = 1 John 2:18 Little children, it is the last hour; and as you have heard that the Antichrist is coming, even now many antichrists have come, by which we know that it is the last hour.

TRUTH = 2 Thess 2:1-4 Now, brethren, concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to Him, we ask you, not to be soon shaken in mind or troubled, either by spirit or by word or by letter, as if from us, as though the day of Christ had come. Let no one deceive you by any means; for that Day will not come unless the falling away comes first, and the man of sin is revealed, the son of perdition, who opposes and exalts himself above all that is called God or that is worshiped, so that he sits as God in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God.

TRUTH = Revelation 2:10 Do not fear any of those things which you are about to suffer. Indeed, the devil is about to throw some of you into prison, that you may be tested, and you will have tribulation ten days. Be faithful until death, and I will give you the crown of life.

TRUTH = Revelation 13:5-10
And he was given a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies, and he was given authority to continue for forty-two months. Then he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme His name, His tabernacle, and those who dwell in heaven. It was granted to him to make war with the saints and to overcome them. And authority was given him over every tribe, tongue, and nation. All who dwell on the earth will worship him, whose names have not been written in the Book of Life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

If anyone has an ear, let him hear. He who leads into captivity shall go into captivity; he who kills with the sword must be killed with the sword. Here is the patience and the faith of the saints.

If you preoccupy yourself believing a lie then you will be blinded to the TRUTH.