The heart of the issue, picking up where the argument really begins:
entire sanctification is an obtainable goal.
entire sanctification is an obtainable goal.
entire sanctification*
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I thought luther taught justification by faith alone only imputed righteousness and that you remain unrighteousness?
Thanks
Thanks
I agree by becoming a member of Christ thru baptism we are sanctified by His grace, and grace vivifies our good works making them meritorious! Titus 3:8
Works are never meritorious (see Isaiah 64:6).
The only merit that saves is the merits of Christ's perfect life as it is applied to our account through justification by faith.
I only sin when I am not abiding in Christ.
I do believe that it is possible to abide in Christ consistently for the rest of one's life (1 John 2:17)...
As for whether I have succeeded in doing that...I have not...which does not necessarily speak of the future of my life.
For I believe that the Lord is able to do exceedingly abundantly above all that I can ask or think...and this includes setting me free from the power of sin so that I will not sin any more.
My faith in this has waned over time; because I have sought after this second benefit and have not obtained it: and I should have obtained it by now.
But, Mark 9:24 comes to mind...and Romans 4:20-22...so I will not give up.
Deuteronomy 4:29 and Jeremiah 29:13 also come to mind.
The Lord promises me that He will "sanctify me wholly" (1 Thessalonians 5:23-24)...that He will "perfect me for ever" (Hebrews 10:14)...that He will place such a spirit in me that I "cannot sin" (1 John 3:9).
I also do not have to stumble or fall (Jude 1:24, 2 Peter 1:10, 1 John 2:10).
He is able to make me as righteous as He is righteous (1 John 3:7)...as pure as He is pure (1 John 3:3)....and to walk even as He walked (1 John 2:6).
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Perhaps you are closer than you think. The negative thoughts come because sometimes of negative actions, but be slow to express them aloud to others for that admits to a negative faith. Remember what God saw in David when he had committed adultery and murder. It is in our hearts and our efforts and our purpose that God sees more so, I believe, than in what we consider failures. Don't dwell on any perceived failure, but dwell rather on the promises of God as you have when you posted the above verses:
Give God the glory!
Sorry, I believe that you're taking passages that are either referring to the Kingdom, or to the principle of Grace, out of context, and attempting to apply them to man's temporal walk on earth.
You can believe what you want to.
As for me, I am going to press in to the sanctification that the Lord has promised to me.
If you want to reject certain verses for that you have unbelief or an unwillingness to be changed, then that is on you; but I am not your judge: yet Jesus certainly is your judge.
The word that He has spoken will judge everyone on the last day;
So if I were you, I would be certain that I am not rejecting any of His words.
I do believe that there is no such thing as a "scripture taken out of context".
The context of any given scripture is never going to nullify the plain meaning of that scripture; for the Lord does not contradict Himself in what He has inspired to be written.
No, but do you contradict yourself?
What does 'eat my flesh, and drink my blood' mean? Context does not override hyper-literalism?
I didn't say that we ought not to take context into account.
I am merely saying that I know of many situations where men have rejected the testimony of scripture and its claim on their lives because they excused themselves by saying, "that scripture is taken out of context."
But even the apostle Matthew, in Matthew 2:15, under the inspiration of the Holy Ghost, took a scripture (Hosea 11:1) out of context and applied it to Jesus whereas in the original passage it applied to Israel.
And also, in 2 Corinthians 9:6, you come up with a "name-it-and-claim-it, word of faith" type of doctrine if you take it in its immediate context; while if you utilize the biblical hermeneutic of 1 Corinthians 2:13 (kjv), and apply Luke 8:11, to the verse, you will come up with a more orthodox interpretation. (Ecclesiastes 11:6 also applies to that verse nicely; that's a freebie).
I am merely saying that I know of many situations where men have rejected the testimony of scripture and its claim on their lives because they excused themselves by saying, "that scripture is taken out of context."
But even the apostle Matthew, in Matthew 2:15, under the inspiration of the Holy Ghost, took a scripture (Hosea 11:1) out of context and applied it to Jesus whereas in the original passage it applied to Israel.
And also, in 2 Corinthians 9:6, you come up with a "name-it-and-claim-it, word of faith" type of doctrine if you take it in its immediate context; while if you utilize the biblical hermeneutic of 1 Corinthians 2:13 (kjv), and apply Luke 8:11, to the verse, you will come up with a more orthodox interpretation. (Ecclesiastes 11:6 also applies to that verse nicely; that's a freebie).
The heart of the issue, picking up where the argument really begins:
entire sanctification is an obtainable goal.
entire sanctification is an obtainable goal.
Ziggy
Well-Known Member
Sanctify..
Set apart
Sanctified for His purpose.
Don't walk like a duck, don't talk like a duck. because then you become like a duck.
Walk like a man. talk like a man. because God made you man.
Don't run with the crowd. Follow Him
Even though you are in the world, don't be like the world.
The world thrives on Hate, God is Love.. Be loving like God is loving.
Be sanctified in him.
HUGS
Set apart
Sanctified for His purpose.
Don't walk like a duck, don't talk like a duck. because then you become like a duck.
Walk like a man. talk like a man. because God made you man.
Don't run with the crowd. Follow Him
Even though you are in the world, don't be like the world.
The world thrives on Hate, God is Love.. Be loving like God is loving.
Be sanctified in him.
HUGS
ChristisGod
Well-Known Member
Paul Christensen
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Entire sanctification will happen when we rise up to meet the Lord in the air when He comes again.
The trouble with those who attain to entire sanctification by faith is that every time they "fall off the wagon", even with the most minor lapse in holiness, they have to go through the process of being entirely sanctified by faith all over again. So what if this happens many times in one day. This means that there is a constant flip flop from less sanctification, to entire sanctification, back to less sanctification, to entire sanctification, etc and so on. Doesn't make sense. (some people leave their brains in bed when they get up in the morning).
What makes common sense is developmental sanctification where a person progresses in linear fashion toward greater degrees of sanctification as he grows in grace and in the knowledge of God, with full sanctification occurring when he is instantly changed as he rises up to meet the Lord in the air.
The trouble with those who attain to entire sanctification by faith is that every time they "fall off the wagon", even with the most minor lapse in holiness, they have to go through the process of being entirely sanctified by faith all over again. So what if this happens many times in one day. This means that there is a constant flip flop from less sanctification, to entire sanctification, back to less sanctification, to entire sanctification, etc and so on. Doesn't make sense. (some people leave their brains in bed when they get up in the morning).
What makes common sense is developmental sanctification where a person progresses in linear fashion toward greater degrees of sanctification as he grows in grace and in the knowledge of God, with full sanctification occurring when he is instantly changed as he rises up to meet the Lord in the air.
Paul Christensen
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Sinless perfection belongs in cloud cuckoo land. It is not necessary because we are already the righteousness of God in Christ and so we run the race toward the ultimate prize of the high calling of God in Christ which will happen when the dead in Christ will rise first, and those who are alive will be caught up to meet the Lord in the air when He comes. We will be changed in the twinkling of an eye when our mortality will be change to immortality.
"sinless perfection" is a misnomer applied to the doctrine of entire sanctification in order to produce a straw man argument that is easily toppled by 1 John 1:8.
In all reality, the doctrine of entire sanctification does not teach that the element of sin is eradicated from us when we are sanctified.
It teaches that it remains in us but is rendered dead (Romans 6:6, Galatians 5:24, Romans 7:8) so that it no longer has any say over our behaviour (Romans 6:14).
Again, 1 John 1:8 does not say, "If we say that we do no sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us."
Read it again.
It is speaking of indwelling sin rather than practical sins. Otherwise it is in contradiction to 1 John 3:9, 1 John 3:6, and 1 John 2:17; also all of 1 John 3:5-9.
See also Jude 1:24, 2 Peter 1:10, and 1 John 2:10. We do not have to commit sin in the practical sense.
A person can come to the point in their lives where they do not flip back to not being entirely sanctified (see Hebrews 10:14 (kjv), 1 John 3:6, 1 John 2:17).
If you want to deal with a convicted conscience every day you are alive, then by all means reject the concept of entire sanctification. If you can sin without being convicted in your conscience, then there is more of a problem to deal with there. For you are a psychopath.
But Romans 7:24 shows us that the attitude of the believer (or of one who is about to become a true believer) in a Romans 7:14-25 lifestyle is that he is discontented with his lifestyle of sinning.
If you have this biblical attitude, then the doctrine of entire sanctification is good news as a sound to your ear.
But if you are happy as a sinner; and if you love the idea that Christ has redeemed you from the penalty of your sins without actually redeeming you from your sins (see Matthew 1:21, Titus 2:14), then the doctrine of entire sanctification is abhorrent to you.
For you are a slave of sin and do not desire freedom; because in order to be free you would have to become a slave of righteousness. I am speaking in human terms because of the infirmity of your flesh.
In all reality, the doctrine of entire sanctification does not teach that the element of sin is eradicated from us when we are sanctified.
It teaches that it remains in us but is rendered dead (Romans 6:6, Galatians 5:24, Romans 7:8) so that it no longer has any say over our behaviour (Romans 6:14).
Again, 1 John 1:8 does not say, "If we say that we do no sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us."
Read it again.
It is speaking of indwelling sin rather than practical sins. Otherwise it is in contradiction to 1 John 3:9, 1 John 3:6, and 1 John 2:17; also all of 1 John 3:5-9.
See also Jude 1:24, 2 Peter 1:10, and 1 John 2:10. We do not have to commit sin in the practical sense.
A person can come to the point in their lives where they do not flip back to not being entirely sanctified (see Hebrews 10:14 (kjv), 1 John 3:6, 1 John 2:17).
If you want to deal with a convicted conscience every day you are alive, then by all means reject the concept of entire sanctification. If you can sin without being convicted in your conscience, then there is more of a problem to deal with there. For you are a psychopath.
But Romans 7:24 shows us that the attitude of the believer (or of one who is about to become a true believer) in a Romans 7:14-25 lifestyle is that he is discontented with his lifestyle of sinning.
If you have this biblical attitude, then the doctrine of entire sanctification is good news as a sound to your ear.
But if you are happy as a sinner; and if you love the idea that Christ has redeemed you from the penalty of your sins without actually redeeming you from your sins (see Matthew 1:21, Titus 2:14), then the doctrine of entire sanctification is abhorrent to you.
For you are a slave of sin and do not desire freedom; because in order to be free you would have to become a slave of righteousness. I am speaking in human terms because of the infirmity of your flesh.
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Jesus, of course, said in Matthew 23 that we need to cleanse the inside of the cup and platter so that the outside may also be clean.
This is doable through faith in the blood of Christ (see 1 John 1:7, 1 John 1:9, Titus 2:14).
Not according to the kjv (1 Thessalonians 5:23-24 (kjv)).
This is one of the reasons I believe that modern translations are watered down and not to be trusted.
