ESV Bible says Sodom will suffer "ETERNAL" fire but ESV Bible also says Sodom will be restored
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I guess I think it means people who didn't believe in Jesus but who otherwise lived fairly moral lives.
Aunty Jane
Well-Known Member
Yes, the term applies to those who have good hearts, even though ignorance may have led them to transgress in some ways as we all do.
So these "good" people are those who will come back in the general resurrection of the dead....many of whom died without ever hearing about God or his Christ. Now they will all learn about God's purpose for them. This is the 'second resurrection', once Jesus has established his kingdom over the earth and is ruling with his elect. Those who practiced evil will come back to be judged on their behavior after they have been raised back to life. At death they are acquitted or justified from sin, (Rom 6:7) all are given a fresh start with a clean slate.....under the rule of the Prince of Peace.
Aren't we all transformed into perfection by Christ at his return?
Aunty Jane
Well-Known Member
Not right away.....that is what the kingdom's rule of a thousand years is for...to bring alienated mankind back into reconciliation with their Creator. It will take a thousand years to complete that task....
Bob Estey
Well-Known Member
Off the top of my head: The fire always burns, but when we repent, we come out of the fire.
NOT TRUE! John 6:53-58 reads:
53 Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, ye have no life in you.
54 Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath (present tense) eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day.
55 For my flesh is meat indeed, and my blood is drink indeed.
56 He that eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, dwelleth in me, and I in him.
57 As the living Father hath sent me, and I live by the Father: so he that eateth me, even he shall live by me.
58 This is that bread which came down from heaven: not as your fathers did eat manna, and are dead: he that eateth of this bread shall live for ever.
LOL! "Life without end" is synonymous with "Eternal Life."
To God Be The Glory
Jesus said, "There is none good but one, that is, God." Matthew 19:17.
There will no where be that Jesus will reign for a thousand years in this sin cursed earth! No where in Revelation 20 teach of a 1,000 years earthly rule of Christ
Hebrews 9:26-28 reads:
26 For then must he often have suffered since the foundation of the world: but now once in the end of the world hath he appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself.
27 And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:
28 So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation.
To God Be The Glory
Aunty Jane
Well-Known Member
The word translated "eternal" there is a mistranslation, or should I say a misinterpretation?
The word is "aiōnios" and it has three possible meanings according to how it is translated into English....
- "without beginning and end, that which always has been and always will be.
- without beginning.
- without end, never to cease, everlasting." (Strongs)
It cannot mean #1 "without beginning or end" because it speaks about humans...all of whom had a beginning.
It cannot mean #2 for the same reason.
So logically it has to be the third meaning...."without end, never to cease, everlasting".
When is "the last day"?
"Life without end" is not "eternal" but "everlasting".....Only God is eternal. (#1 above)
It's the same with the word "immortal".....it literally means "the power of an indestructible life". No one can kill an immortal.
In speaking of his fellow elect, Paul said....
"For this which is corruptible must put on incorruption, and this which is mortal must put on immortality. 54 But when this which is corruptible puts on incorruption and this which is mortal puts on immortality, then the saying that is written will take place: “Death is swallowed up forever.” (1 Cor 15:53-54)
For the elect, life in heaven will mean that formerly mortal humans will become immortals.....immortality is something that even the angels do not have. As spirit creatures who inhabit a completely different realm, they have 'everlasting life' with no natural cause of death, just as humans were offered in the beginning. The difference was that mortal humans had to rely on external means to keep living....air, food, water, and shelter....Angels do not. Yet both are obligated to be obedient to their Universal Sovereign. Disobedience meant death.
Aunty Jane
Well-Known Member
Since Jesus said this and excluded himself, then Jesus was not "good" either.
Revelation 20:1-6...ESV
"Then I saw an angel coming down from heaven, holding in his hand the key to the bottomless pit and a great chain. 2 And he seized the dragon, that ancient serpent, who is the devil and Satan, and bound him for a thousand years, 3 and threw him into the pit, and shut it and sealed it over him, so that he might not deceive the nations any longer, until the thousand years were ended. After that he must be released for a little while.
4 Then I saw thrones, and seated on them were those to whom the authority to judge was committed. Also I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for the testimony of Jesus and for the word of God, and those who had not worshiped the beast or its image and had not received its mark on their foreheads or their hands. They came to life and reigned with Christ for a thousand years. 5 The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were ended. This is the first resurrection. 6 Blessed and holy is the one who shares in the first resurrection! Over such the second death has no power, but they will be priests of God and of Christ, and they will reign with him for a thousand years."
It says plainly that his elect will rule with Christ for a thousand years.....who are they going to rule? If they are priests, then for whom are they to act as priests? Each other? If they are to reign with Christ, who are they ruling? Each other?
Revelation 21 tells us exactly who they will rule....
"And I saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. 3 And I heard a loud voice from the throne saying, “Behold, the dwelling place of God is with man. He will dwell with them, and they will be his people, and God himself will be with them as their God. 4 He will wipe away every tear from their eyes, and death shall be no more, neither shall there be mourning, nor crying, nor pain anymore, for the former things have passed away.”
After Christ has cleansed the earth of all wickedness, then he and his "joint heirs" will rule redeemed humans, bringing about reconcilliation with their Creator. Its the whole reason why Jesus came to redeem mankind...to offer his life for theirs and to bring them back to God's first purpose for them. Earth was never designed to be a training ground for heaven......
Read it in context...in a plain English Bible.
"For Christ has entered, not into holy places made with hands, which are copies of the true things, but into heaven itself, now to appear in the presence of God on our behalf. 25 Nor was it to offer himself repeatedly, as the high priest enters the holy places every year with blood not his own, 26 for then he would have had to suffer repeatedly since the foundation of the world. But as it is, he has appeared once for all at the end of the ages to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself. 27 And just as it is appointed for man to die once, and after that comes judgment, 28 so Christ, having been offered once to bear the sins of many, will appear a second time, not to deal with sin but to save those who are eagerly waiting for him."
In separating the "sheep" from the "goats" Jesus will consign the "goats" to "the everlasting fire"....the place reserved for satan and his demons. "The lake of fire" (Gehenna) is a symbolic place meaning "everlasting death".....there is no "hell".
These wicked spirits will languish in an abyss for the whole time that Jesus is ruling. He will not be able to interfere with mankind's recovery. (Matt 25:31-34, 41, 46)
Ronald David Bruno
Well-Known Member
Ezekiel 16 symbolically spoke of Jerusalem as being a prostitute, her sins, her sisters ( cities) around her and their judgments. Sodom was destroyed (1000+ years prior to Ezekiel's prophecy). He didn't say he was going restore the city or the people in it - HE SAID "fortunes". What are fortunes? What we reap from the land. So He would restore the lands or regions. As a forest burns to the ground, years later growth begins again.
Jude however, is speaking about the sinners who will suffer destruction, not restoration.
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theJW
Member
quietthinker
Well-Known Member
Jesus at that moment did not have to mention He is good, but claimed rather in John 10:30 that He and the Father are one.
First you must define the term "thousand years." It is NOT a literal number as many thinks, but rather, symbolic.
For example, if there be any spiritual significance to numbers, we know that the number "forty" signifies "testing" as we read of the Nation of Israel wondering in the wilderness for "forty" years. Likewise, we also see the temptation of Jesus as He was led by the Holy Spirit to be tempted by the Devil after fasting for forty days. Therefore, the term "thousand years" must also have a spiritual connotation! THERE IS, but
I'll leave that part to your brilliant opinion to elaborate.
Your summation of the "joint heirs" and "redeemed humans" I believe, are one and the same.
I only read the KJV Bible. Does this mean I'm lost not having the knowledge of the Hebrew and Greek language?
I agree there is no hell. For years I've taught this in these forums that hell is NOT a place but rather hell is a "condition."
To God Be The Glory
St. Joseph
Active Member
I've never cracked one open,but i heard ESV is not reliable.
I'm one of those that believe the KJV is the only way to go.
I'm one of those that believe the KJV is the only way to go.
St. Joseph
Active Member
S
Must have been some liberal writer
Sorry i saw no errors in all ot that.
Must have been some liberal writer
St. SteVen
Well-Known Member
Why would there be a need for repentance at that time?
What is actually being turned away from? (or toward)
Bob Estey
Well-Known Member
There is a need for repentance, I believe, because sin gets us into trouble. And that would be what we are turning away from: Sin.
Robert Gwin
Well-Known Member
No doubt you don't believe God's word contradicts itself Pat, so here is our understanding of the seeming contradiction, perhaps you will agree with it sir: When persecution grew intense and believing Jewish Christians were scattered, they went everywhere preaching. The evangelist Philip went to Samaria, where Jesus had preached some time previous. Many of the Samaritans believed, more preachers were sent to them, and the holy spirit descended upon them. They were brought into God’s congregation. There, as represented in that Samaritan remnant, Ezekiel 16:53-55 was fulfilled.—John 4:39-42; Acts 8:1-25.
Then the gospel went to the Gentiles. The Jews thought of them as dogs. (Matt. 15:26, 27; Mark 7:27, 28) Dogs were unclean animals, viewed as sexually depraved, and linked in with sodomy: “There shall be no prostitute of the daughters of Israel, neither shall there be a sodomite of the sons of Israel. Thou shalt not bring the hire of a harlot, or the wages of a dog, into the house of Jehovah thy God for any vow: for even both these are an abomination unto Jehovah thy God.” (Deut. 23:17, 18, AS) The female prostitute’s gain is likened to the hire of a harlot, and the male sodomist’s gain is likened to the wages of a dog. Instead of “dog” An American Translation uses “male prostitute” and Moffatt’s version uses “catamite”, which means a boy kept for unnatural purposes. These sexual depravities were flagrant in Sodom, the base sin of sodomy taking its name from that city. So all this shows how the Jews associated Sodom and dogs and Gentiles.
To buttress this view of matters note the following quotation from the introductory material of volume 7 of The Interpreter’s Bible, published last year. The first paragraph under “Morality”, beginning on page 80, reads: “The moral life of the pagan world was often referred to by early Christian writers whose view of the morality of the time was a stereotyped one inherited from their Jewish predecessors. Both Jewish and Christian authors agreed that the Gentiles were morally degenerate. The Old Testament story of Sodom and Gomorrah, on which the Lord had rained down fire and brimstone, represents the Hebrew attitude toward pagan wickedness, whether of Egyptians, Canaanites, Philistines, Assyrians, Babylonians, or Romans.”
The apostle Peter had this view of Gentiles as being sodomic and doglike, and that is why it was so hard for him to grasp God’s purpose for him to take the gospel to the Gentiles. Yet when he did understand he obeyed, and God poured out his spirit on Gentile believers, receiving them into the same restored congregation along with believing Jews and Samaritans. (Acts 10:9-48) When the faithful Jewish remnant saw uncircumcised Gentiles, whom they had previously viewed as dogs and Sodomites, restored with them they felt some shame. They had thought the Jews specially holy and that God would use only Jews to make up Messiah’s bride. Now they learn they are not so important or holy, but that God makes worthy for the Kingdom not only Samaritans but also uncircumcised Gentiles. Thus fulfillment of Ezekiel 16:53-55 was started off in early Christian times. Ezekiel did not mean literal Sodom, no more than did Isaiah when he called Israel Sodom, or did John when he wrote that Jesus died in Sodom. (Isa. 1:10; Rev. 11:8) Ezekiel used it symbolically for uncircumcised Gentiles, and when discussing restoration of the theocratic organization, not resurrection.
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