ESV Bible says Sodom will suffer "ETERNAL" fire but ESV Bible also says Sodom will be restored

[Patrick1966]

Why the contradiction?

Jude 1:7 esv
just as Sodom and Gomorrah and the surrounding cities, which likewise indulged in sexual immorality and pursued unnatural desire, serve as an example by undergoing a punishment of eternal fire.

Ezekiel 16:53 esv
“I will restore their fortunes, both the fortunes of Sodom and her daughters, and the fortunes of Samaria and her daughters, and I will restore your own fortunes in their midst,

 

[quietthinker]

Why the contradiction?

Jude 1:7 esv
just as Sodom and Gomorrah and the surrounding cities, which likewise indulged in sexual immorality and pursued unnatural desire, serve as an example by undergoing a punishment of eternal fire.

Ezekiel 16:53 esv
“I will restore their fortunes, both the fortunes of Sodom and her daughters, and the fortunes of Samaria and her daughters, and I will restore your own fortunes in their midst,

Sharp eyes Patrick! .....understanding that both are true will depend on how you see......and how you see is contingent on the type of enquiry or lack of it.

Matthew 6:22-23
22 “The lamp of the body is the eye. If therefore your eye is good, your whole body will be full of light.23 But if your eye is bad, your whole body will be full of darkness. If therefore the light that is in you is darkness, how great is that darkness!

 

[Patrick1966]

Sharp eyes Patrick!

Thanks for the compliment my brother but another pointed this out to me.

 

[Patrick1966]

With that said, this guy says that the Bible versions that talk about "restoring" Sodom are mistranslations, including the YLT.

God will restore Sodom's CAPTIVITY!!! not fortunes.

For those of you why who don’t know, The Wondering Pilgrims YouTube channel (link - youtube.com/channel/UCwfF9tYji7kfImqXjcd2vZw/videos) is back and has released Episode 1 of Season 3 of The Evangelical Universalist Show titled “The One Who Has Authority To Destroy The Soul In Hell” (link -...

forum.evangelicaluniversalist.com

 

[Aunty Jane]

Why the contradiction?

Jude 1:7 esv
just as Sodom and Gomorrah and the surrounding cities, which likewise indulged in sexual immorality and pursued unnatural desire, serve as an example by undergoing a punishment of eternal fire.

Ezekiel 16:53 esv
“I will restore their fortunes, both the fortunes of Sodom and her daughters, and the fortunes of Samaria and her daughters, and I will restore your own fortunes in their midst,

Please read the whole of Ezekiel ch 16.....it is comparing the wickedness of Sodom with the wickedness of God's own people....those who sinned in a disgusting manner in ignorance (Sodom), compared to those who offended God in spiritual prostitution (Israel) that was unforgivable by comparison. The people of Sodom did not have God's laws, but Israel did.

Jesus named those ancient peoples and inhabitants of ancient cities and indicated something regarding their future. He spoke of the cities of Tyre, Sidon and Sodom.....

“Then he started to reproach the cities in which most of his powerful works had taken place, because they did not repent: ‘Woe to you, Chorazin! Woe to you, Bethsaida! because if the powerful works had taken place in Tyre and Sidon that took place in you, they would long ago have repented in sackcloth and ashes. Consequently I say to you, It will be more endurable for Tyre and Sidon on Judgment Day than for you. And you, Capernaum, will you perhaps be exalted to heaven? Down to Haʹdes you will come; because if the powerful works that took place in you had taken place in Sodom, it would have remained until this very day. Consequently I say to you people, It will be more endurable for the land of Sodom on Judgment Day than for you.’” (Matt 11:20-24; Luke 10:11-15)

 

[Patrick1966]

‘Woe to you, Chorazin! Woe to you, Bethsaida!

Did their demise already occur or is that something yet to come? Thanks.

 

[quietthinker]

With that said, this guy says that the Bible versions that talk about "restoring" Sodom are mistranslations, including the YLT.

God will restore Sodom's CAPTIVITY!!! not fortunes.

For those of you why who don’t know, The Wondering Pilgrims YouTube channel (link - youtube.com/channel/UCwfF9tYji7kfImqXjcd2vZw/videos) is back and has released Episode 1 of Season 3 of The Evangelical Universalist Show titled “The One Who Has Authority To Destroy The Soul In Hell” (link -...

forum.evangelicaluniversalist.com

I'd say, more a misunderstanding of the meaning of Sodom

 

[Patrick1966]

I'd say, more a misunderstanding of the meaning of Sodom

Well it seems that I may have made the mistake of taking the reference to Sodom literally instead of figuratively as our brother @Fullness of the Gentiles was kind enough to point out to me. As I told him, I need to read up a bit more on Ezekiel.

 

[quietthinker]

Well it seems that I may have made the mistake of taking the reference to Sodom literally instead of figuratively as our brother @Fullness of the Gentiles was kind enough to point out to me. As I told him, I need to read up a bit more on Ezekiel.

Patrick, the Old Testament Prophets need to be understood through the lens of Jesus (I understand this might not be understood very well)
Without that insight, the Prophets will be misunderstood by most. So, one of the questions that needs asking is, how do we do that? ie, what is the criteria?

 

[Patrick1966]

Patrick, the Old Testament Prophets need to be understood through the lens of Jesus (I understand this might not be understood very well)
Without that insight, the Prophets will be misunderstood by most. So, one of the questions that needs asking is, how do we do that? ie, what is the criteria?

I confess; I don't know.

 

[quietthinker]

I confess; I don't know.

Thank you for your honesty.
Might I suggest this...... Jesus is the only one who has had direct contact with the Father. The Prophets were given visions and other forms of contact with the divine (dreams) etc and then left to describe those experiences in their own words. God did not hold their pens. They relied on, just as we do, the cultural understandings to interpret. Jesus on the other hand had a window far above and beyond what the Prophets had.

When Moses and Elijah appeared with Jesus on the mount of transfiguration the voice from the cloud said 'This is my Son, listen to him'.....in other words Moses and Elijah who were representatives of the Law and the Prophets respectively were relegated second place re being listened to. It was the Son who had the greater light, the better insight, the most pertinent information. Jesus is the one who is to inform us on The Truth.

Once that is clear in our understanding we can then begin to unravel the many distortions and misunderstandings we have collected on our journey. We are to keep asking, to keep challenging our preprogrammed views ......preprogrammed by the cultural and the religious influences we all are subject to......using Jesus as our North Star, so to speak.

 

[Aunty Jane]

Did their demise already occur or is that something yet to come? Thanks.

The ones Jesus preached to, who came to accept him as Messiah, would have been the first ones accepted as God's elect. Those who rejected him may well receive a resurrection in the future, but it will be back to life on this earth as those whom Jesus said he would return to life.....both the good and the evil.....

Jesus said...."Do not marvel at this, for an hour is coming when all who are in the tombs will hear his voice 29 and come out, those who have done good to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil to the resurrection of judgment." (John 5:28-29 ESV)

......"the righteous" are raised to life and "the unrighteous" to a period of "judgment". They get a second chance because most did not get the opportunity to hear the gospel message. God will not punish people who died in ignorance.

"The wages of sin is death", so those in their tombs have paid sins wages and through Christ's sacrifice, they are granted life under kingdom rulership....it will be a time of education, along with peace and prosperity under the leadership of Christ and his elect.

The devil will be incarcerated for 1,000 years so there will be no temptation to do wrong that will come from his influence. (Rev 20:1-3)

 

[Patrick1966]

"the righteous" are raised to life and "the unrighteous"

Well, this translation uses "good" and "evil", not "righteous" and "unrighteous".

 

[Patrick1966]

They get a second chance because most did not get the opportunity to hear the gospel message. God will not punish people who died in ignorance.

Well, if they were "good" then they are raised to eternal life, unless I am misunderstanding the verse.

 

[Aunty Jane]

@Patrick1966 if you'd like a condensed overview of the book of Ezekiel...this is a favorite one of mine.
Its a book called "All Scripture is Inspired of God and Beneficial" and it outlines all the books of the Bible in a clear understandable way without having to read a book on each book. See what you think....
Book of Ezekiel

 

[Aunty Jane]

Well, this translation uses "good" and "evil", not "righteous" and "unrighteous".

At Acts 24:15 Paul makes this distinction....I should have cited the scripture, sorry.

Well, if they were "good" then they are raised to eternal life, unless I am misunderstanding the verse.

Yes, they have qualified for "everlasting life" if they have proven faithful unto death....but there is really no such thing as 'eternal" life unless you are God.
"Eternal" means no beginning or end....so only God qualifies for that designation. Life without end is what God held out to all of his intelligent creation, including the angels because they all had a beginning....even Jesus. (Rev 3:14; Col 1:15)

 

[Patrick1966]

@Patrick1966 if you'd like a condensed overview of the book of Ezekiel...this is a favorite one of mine.
Its a book called "All Scripture is Inspired of God and Beneficial" and it outlines all the books of the Bible in a clear understandable way without having to read a book on each book. See what you think....
Book of Ezekiel

Are you JW?

 

[Patrick1966]

Yes, they have qualified for "everlasting life" if they have proven faithful unto death

Again, the verse says if they were "good". It doesn't say "faithful".

 

[Aunty Jane]

Are you JW?

Yep...have been for over 50 years....that is how long I have been carefully studying scripture. I came out of Christendom after discovering that I had been lied to for the first part of my life.

 

[Aunty Jane]

Again, the verse says if they were "good". It doesn't say "faithful".

What do you think "good" means?