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Brakelite

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But someone pointed out to me that the church is not mentioned after revelation 5. That is very interesting.

If the church is mentioned in Revelaton 2+3 then there should be a mention of them being removed before Rev 5.
Right?
But if they are not mentioned.... maybe you just are not looking at the right references.
Would not the following be references to the church?
Those in white robes
Candlesticks
Saints
Those who had not taken the Mark of the Beast
Those called to the marriage supper of the Lamb
ETC.
KJV Revelation 10:11
11 And he said unto me, Thou must prophesy again before many peoples, and nations, and tongues, and kings.

The above regrets to the church in the last days, just before the 7th seal which is the second coming...

In Revelation 12, the woman is a symbol of God people from the time of Christ's birth, to the second coming, when they shall keep all the commandments of God and have the testimony of Jesus.
In Revelation 14 the church preaches that 3 angel message warning the world against receiving the mark. Later in the same chapter the church is harvested. They have overcome, their fruit is ripe, they are ready, the 144,000 is a symbiotic number of God people, they have been made pure, they are faithful only to Christ and His truth (virgins, untainted by Babylon), and are not liers.

It is after the plagues are poured out, that Jesus says,
KJV Revelation 16:15
15 Behold, I come as a thief. Blessed is he that watcheth, and keepeth his garments, lest he walk naked, and they see his shame .

And there are other times the church is described and revealed. Revelation is not one timeline. The same timeline is repeated several times. Shorter time lines are revealed within the larger framework. And it isn't all applicable to the future. By far, the vast majority of Revelation is a description of history... From the time of the apostle John to the present day, and a short time beyond. The church is there, throughout, from the first to the last. It goes through the plagues, witness the just and fair judgement upon those that hated Christ and His people, but are untouched by their effects, just as they are untouched by the wrath of Satan whose government lackeys declare a death sentence upon those who refuse the mark. They fail. Jesus comes in person to take His people home, and the wicked are destroyed by the brightness of His coming.
 

Brakelite

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Noah and his family were safe!!! Those that must try to live in the tribulation years Billions will die!!
Indeed, although I would disagree with "years".
KJV Psalms 91:1-11
1 He that dwelleth in the secret place of the most High shall abide under the shadow of the Almighty.
2 I will say of the LORD, He is my refuge and my fortress: my God; in him will I trust.
3 Surely he shall deliver thee from the snare of the fowler, and from the noisome pestilence.
4 He shall cover thee with his feathers, and under his wings shalt thou trust: his truth shall be thy shield and buckler.
5 Thou shalt not be afraid for the terror by night; nor for the arrow that flieth by day;
6 Nor for the pestilence that walketh in darkness; nor for the destruction that wasteth at noonday.
7 A thousand shall fall at thy side, and ten thousand at thy right hand; but it shall not come nigh thee.
8 Only with thine eyes shalt thou behold and see the reward of the wicked.
9 Because thou hast made the LORD, which is my refuge, even the most High, thy habitation;
10 There shall no evil befall thee, neither shall any plague come nigh thy dwelling.

11 For he shall give his angels charge over thee, to keep thee in all thy ways.
 

Brakelite

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Think!! Noah and his family were safe inside the ark no swimming needed!! LOL! We born-again believers will be caught up to be with Jesus while the great tribulation is on earth and after the tribulation years we will return with Jesus when Jesus sits His foot down on the Mount of Olives in Jerusalem!!!PTL
Your views might be taken more seriously when you stop laughing at others. Noah's ark was in the midst of the greatest perfect storm in Earth's history. So drastic, it reshaped continents, , and turned the planet on its axis. How safe do you think Noah felt? Do you think his faith was tested? Do you think his wife didn't doubt and ask Noah if he was sure he had done the right thing?
 
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Heart2Soul

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I'm stocked up on popcorn.

Sozomen (ca. A.D.375-447)
"Ecclesiastical History"
Book V, Chapter XXII


Though the emperor [Julian the Apostate] hated and oppressed the Christians, he manifested benevolence and humanity towards the Jews. He wrote to the Jewish patriarchs and leaders, as well as to the people, requesting them to pray for him, and for the prosperity of the empire. In taking this step he was not actuated, I am convinced, by any respect for their religion; for he was aware that it is, so to speak, the mother of the Christian religion, and he knew that both religions rest upon the authority of the patriarchs and the prophets; but he thought to grieve the Christians by favoring the Jews, who are their most inveterate enemies. But perhaps he also calculated upon persuading the Jews to embrace paganism and sacrifices; for they were only acquainted with the mere letter of Scripture, and could not, like the Christians and a few of the wisest among the Hebrews, discern the hidden meaning.

Events proved that this was his real motive; for he sent for some of the chiefs of the race and exhorted them to return to the observance of the laws of Moses and the customs of their fathers. On their replying that because the temple in Jerusalem was overturned, it was neither lawful nor ancestral to do this in another place than the metropolis out of which they had been cast, he gave them public money, commanded them to rebuild the temple, and to practice the cult similar to that of their ancestors, by sacrificing after the ancient way. The Jews entered upon the undertaking, without reflecting that, according to the prediction of the holy prophets, it could not be accomplished. They sought for the most skillful artisans, collected materials, cleared the ground, and entered so earnestly upon the task, that even the women carried heaps of earth, and brought their necklaces and other female ornaments towards defraying the expense. The emperor, the other pagans, and all the Jews, regarded every other undertaking as secondary in importance to this. Although the pagans were not well-disposed towards the Jews, yet they assisted them in this enterprise, because they reckoned upon its ultimate success, and hoped by this means to falsify the prophecies of Christ. Besides this motive, the Jews themselves were impelled by the consideration that the time had arrived for rebuilding their temple. When they had removed the ruins of the former building, they dug up the ground and cleared away its foundation; it is said that on the following day when they were about to lay the first foundation, a great earthquake occurred, and by the violent agitation of the earth, stones were thrown up from the depths, by which those of the Jews who were engaged in the work were wounded, as likewise those who were merely looking on. The houses and public porticos, near the site of the temple, in which they had diverted themselves, were suddenly thrown down; many were caught thereby, some perished immediately, others were found half dead and mutilated of hands or legs, others were injured in other parts of the body. When God caused the earthquake to cease, the workmen who survived again returned to their task, partly because such was the edict of the emperor, and partly because they were themselves interested in the undertaking. Men often, in endeavoring to gratify their own passions, seek what is injurious to them, reject what would be truly advantageous, and are deluded-by the idea that nothing is really useful except what is agreeable to them. When once led astray by this error, they are no longer able to act in a manner conducive to their own interests, or to take warning by the calamities which are visited upon them.

The Jews, I believe, were just in this state; for, instead of regarding this unexpected earthquake as a manifest indication that God was opposed to the re-erection of their temple, they proceeded to recommence the work. But all parties relate, that they had scarcely returned to the undertaking, when fire burst suddenly from the foundations of the temple, and consumed several of the workmen.

This fact is fearlessly stated, and believed by all; the only discrepancy in the narrative is that some maintain that flame burst from the interior of the temple, as the workmen were striving to force an entrance, while others say that the fire proceeded directly from the earth. In whichever way the phenomenon might have occurred, it is equally wonderful. A more tangible and still more extraordinary prodigy ensued; suddenly the sign of the cross appeared spontaneously on the garments of the persons engaged in the undertaking. These crosses were disposed like stars, and appeared the work of art. Many were hence led to confess that Christ is God, and that the rebuilding of the temple was not pleasing to Him; others presented themselves in the church, were initiated, and besought Christ, with hymns and supplications, to pardon their transgression. If any one does not feel disposed to believe my narrative, let him go and be convinced by those who heard the facts I have related from the eyewitnesses of them, for they are still alive. Let him inquire, also, of the Jews and pagans who left the work in an incomplete state, or who, to speak more accurately, were able to commence it.
That was then...this is now...
 

Heart2Soul

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Popcorn is for when the fireworks begin.
I am confident in what God spoke to me in 2016. He said to keep my eyes on Israel and watch prophesy being fulfilled.
One thing that is certain, when God says My Will Be Done...it will be done.
 
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covenantee

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I am confident in what God spoke to me in 2016. He said to keep my eyes on Israel and watch prophesy being fulfilled.
One thing that is certain, when God says My Will Be Done...it will be done.
He told me to keep my eyes on Jesus (Hebrews 12:2), because Jesus is the fulfillment of all of the promises of God. (2 Corinthians 1:20)

That is fulfilled certainty which has been done.
 
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shortangel

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i haven't been able to post on this topic yet so here goes, it's really intresting about the red hefiers & the 3rd temple, you never know it could happen where a 3rd temple could be built, i'm not denying that, & yes it could happen within this generation, but you never know
 
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Heart2Soul

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He told me to keep my eyes on Jesus (Hebrews 12:2), because Jesus is the fulfillment of all of the promises of God. (2 Corinthians 1:20)

That is fulfilled certainty which has been done.
Oh I see...your are thinking I don’t keep my eyes on God? Well I don't know why you are seemingly trying to one-up me on everything but you have no clue of my relationship with my Abba, Father God.
I am not going to do this with you. I will humbly walk away, pray you have a blessed day and go on to another topic.
 
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Heart2Soul

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Wow... Wrong again.
"There is only one holy place... within the temple at Jerusalem"
What about the Tabernacle?
Was there not a holy place in the Tent of God?
The Tabernacle was built because God instructed Moses to build it and they were to carry it with them until they reached the promise land. Then King Solomon was instructed by God to build the Holy Temple as a permanent structure because they had reached their destination.
 

Daniel777

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The Pre-Tribulation Resurrection/Rapture is guaranteed.

Show your work.
Where is it guaranteed?
Chapter and Verse.
It must be very plainly stated for you to be so sure of your conclusion.
So if you could just post the one or two verses that prove the Pre-Trib Rapture that would settle this matter for everyone.

One of the most common verses the pre-rapture people quote is "Come up here," from Rev. 4:1. They claim it could refer to the entire church. It's obvious from the context, it referred to John only, and in Rev. 11:12, to the two witnesses:

Proof #6: “Come up here.” (Revelation 4:1)

A voice called for the apostle John to “Come up here,” and immediately he was in heaven. This could be a prophetic reference to the rapture of the Church. The words “Come up here” are spoken to the two witnesses who are killed in the middle of the Tribulation, who are resurrected and ascend into heaven (Rev. 11:12). Therefore, the phrase “Come up here” could mean the church is raptured in Rev. 4:1. The word “church” is mentioned 22 times in Rev. 1-3, but is not mentioned again until Rev. 22:17.

16 Proofs of a Pre-Tribulation Rapture - Rapture Forums
 
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David Boyer

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One of the most common verses the pre-rapture people quote is "Come up here," from Rev. 4:1. They claim it could refer to the entire church. It's obvious from the context, it referred to John only, and in Rev. 11:12, to the two witnesses:

Proof #6: “Come up here.” (Revelation 4:1)

A voice called for the apostle John to “Come up here,” and immediately he was in heaven. This could be a prophetic reference to the rapture of the Church. The words “Come up here” are spoken to the two witnesses who are killed in the middle of the Tribulation, who are resurrected and ascend into heaven (Rev. 11:12). Therefore, the phrase “Come up here” could mean the church is raptured in Rev. 4:1. The word “church” is mentioned 22 times in Rev. 1-3, but is not mentioned again until Rev. 22:17.

16 Proofs of a Pre-Tribulation Rapture - Rapture Forums

And Rev 4:2 shows that this is a vision of John. Not a physical transport... it is directed to John... not the entire Church.
So Rev 4:1 is not the Rapture.
 
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David Boyer

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The Tabernacle was built because God instructed Moses to build it and they were to carry it with them until they reached the promise land. Then King Solomon was instructed by God to build the Holy Temple as a permanent structure because they had reached their destination.

Right, so there were two Holy Places during the time of construction of the Temple.
Just pointing out the inconstant arguments of these posts.
 

covenantee

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Oh I see...your are thinking I don’t keep my eyes on God? Well I don't know why you are seemingly trying to one-up me on everything but you have no clue of my relationship with my Abba, Father God.
I am not going to do this with you. I will humbly walk away, pray you have a blessed day and go on to another topic.
God confirms in His Word that we are to look unto Jesus, in Whom all of His promises are yes and amen.

Nowhere does God confirm in His Word that we are to "keep our eyes on Israel and watch prophesy being fulfilled".
 
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Enoch111

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One of the most common verses the pre-rapture people quote is "Come up here," from Rev. 4:1. They claim it could refer to the entire church. It's obvious from the context, it referred to John only, and in Rev. 11:12, to the two witnesses:
Did you notice that I did not refer to that verse?