Failed Prophecies

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marks

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If disembodiment was a real thing, why does Paul have a problem with it? Won't he be in heaven anyway?

I'm not sure what you mean here. God tells us that if our body here goes away, we have a celestial body there. We don't want to be unclothed! Not to worry, we won't be! We Already have a celestial body, seated in the heavenlies. And when our terrestrial life ends, our celestial life does not. That's the beauty of being born of God!

Much love!
 

Nancy

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Oh, stop. Sweethearts like you and ByGrace and Naomi, etc. should have a handicap imposed on y'all like in golf or bracket drag racing...just to make if fair for the rest of us LOL
Surely you jest :rolleyes: :D
And no, I'm not calling you "Shirley" :)
 
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Phoneman777

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Hi Phoneman,

God told Adam that on the day Adam ate from the forbidden tree, on that day he would die. Did Adam die on that same day?

Much love!
LOL actually yes...spiritually. And, when you consider that "a day with the Lord is 1,000 years" and Adam died a few years short of that 1,000, well...
 
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Phoneman777

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On these . . . let's be sure to include Samuel speaking with Saul. Scripture says that Samuel spoke to Saul after Samuel had died. Did he?

Much love!
Good point, but was it reeeeeeeeeally Samuel? Solomon says no. David says no. Lotsa inconsistencies with making the spirit Samuel, too. Like why did he come "up" instead of "down from heaven"? How could he know stuff if the "the dead know not anything"? The obvious answer is that is was a demonic spirit taking the form of one "familiar" to the living, a "familiar spirit".
 

marks

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LOL actually yes...spiritually. And, when you consider that "a day with the Lord is 1,000 years" and Adam died a few years short of that 1,000, well...
OK, the 1000 year thing aside, you believe Adam died the same actual 24 hour period?

Much love!
 

Phoneman777

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OK, the 1000 year thing aside, you believe Adam died the same actual 24 hour period?

Much love!
Nah, Adam lived almost to 1,000. I heard someone say the only reason Adam and Eve didn't die was because the lambs from which they got skins died in their place.
 
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bbyrd009

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God tells us that if our body here goes away, we have a celestial body there.
only "There" is within you bro, no guess there right?
dont be deceived ok, the kingdom of heaven is plainly located by our High Priest, but you just wanna get high i guess see.
 
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marks

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Good point, but was it reeeeeeeeeally Samuel? Solomon says no. David says no. Lotsa inconsistencies with making the spirit Samuel, too. Like why did he come "up" instead of "down from heaven"? How could he know stuff if the "the dead know not anything"? The obvious answer is that is was a demonic spirit taking the form of one "familiar" to the living, a "familiar spirit".
The Bible uses a simple declarative statement.

I don't make the spirit Samuel, the text does. The Book says it was Samuel. Do you not believe it was?

As far as Soloman knew, the dead know nothing. In the context of Ecclesiates, the whole point of the book is to show that no one knew anything about what really happened after this life was over, both in this world and the world to come. But simply stated, his focus was concerning what happens "under the sun", and when people die, they are so completely done with this world.

Soloman even made a point of declaring that we don't Really know the difference between men and animals. Of course, God has given much more information since then.

Oh, and sheol is in the heart of the earth, that's why he came up through the earth.

Much love!
 

marks

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only "There" is within you i guess bro
dont be deceived ok, the kingdom of heaven is plainly located by our High Priest, but you just wanna get high i guess see.
Everybody knows what I want! That's nice!
 

marks

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Nah, Adam lived almost to 1,000. I heard someone say the only reason Adam and Eve didn't die was because the lambs from which they got skins died in their place.
OK, so we read the Bible differently. I think Adam died the same day just like God said. I've heard the lamb thing, but I can't seem to find it in the Bible.

Much love!
 

bbyrd009

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Everybody knows what I want! That's nice!
ah, did i say i knew? Lemme go slog my way up this postage stamp with my mag glass and see...hmm.
Must be guessing a bit too much, huh? Ha! There, i fixed it, ty :)
You do hope to go up to heaven after you have died, yes?
you and your sons will be here with me
 

Phoneman777

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The Bible uses a simple declarative statement.

I don't make the spirit Samuel, the text does. The Book says it was Samuel. Do you not believe it was?

As far as Soloman knew, the dead know nothing. In the context of Ecclesiates, the whole point of the book is to show that no one knew anything about what really happened after this life was over, both in this world and the world to come. But simply stated, his focus was concerning what happens "under the sun", and when people die, they are so completely done with this world.

Soloman even made a point of declaring that we don't Really know the difference between men and animals. Of course, God has given much more information since then.

Oh, and sheol is in the heart of the earth, that's why he came up through the earth.

Much love!
Bible called it "Samuel" because it took the form of Samuel. So, the dead know something?
 
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Phoneman777

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OK, so we read the Bible differently. I think Adam died the same day just like God said. I've heard the lamb thing, but I can't seem to find it in the Bible.

Much love!
How? Doesn't it say he lived almost 1,000 years?
 

bbyrd009

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OK, so we read the Bible differently. I think Adam died the same day just like God said. I've heard the lamb thing, but I can't seem to find it in the Bible.

Much love!
seems like you're both adding to the Book to me, wadr. Although i agree Adam did die in a sense, the only sense that matters to Abba, prolly, i detect that that is not what you are saying?

And why would God, Who um knows how to make sheep, need to kill a sheep to make a coat of skin? one might ask
 
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amadeus

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I thought some of you might get a kick out of this excerpt from an old book I almost forgot I had.

Failed Prophecies

What's a failed prophet to do? What would you do? Since 1855, dispensationalism's supposed experts in "fulfilled prophecy in our day” have told millions of their followers (i.e., victims) that the Rapture was just around the corner because Russia ("Magog") will soon invade Israel. Then came the establishment of the nation of Israel on May 14, 1948. The generation of the fig tree had begun! Only 40 more years until the Millennium! Only 33 more years until the absolutely Secret Rapture! 1981 is coming! Get ready! Get Set!

[This was written 26 years ago. (It is 2019 as of this post) Willie T]

No go; 1981 came and went. Nothing happened. The next major date was May 14, 1988, the 40th anniversary of the establishment of the State of Israel — the "generation of the fig tree,” 1948-1988. May 14 came and went. Nothing happened. No Rapture. Again.

"No, no,” said Edgar C. Whisenant in July, 1988, "it's going to be this September!” September came and went. Nothing happened. "No, no,” said Mr. Whisenant, "I forgot about the extra year in zero A.D. It's going to be in September, 1989.” September, 1989, came and went. Nothing happened. In November, the Berlin Wall came down. A big problem was brewing. Where was national Israel's invader? No invasion — no Rapture!

But then came hope! Saddam Hussein invaded Kuwait on August 2, 1990. "Wait, wait!” the cries came from The Church of Paperback Sensationalism. (I call this theology dispensensationalism.) "It really will be Babylon. It won't be Russia after all. We've been wrong since 1855. No problem, though. We just need to shift a few gears. It's Iraq. Baghdad. The restoration of Babylon is almost here. It's coming soon!” Dallas Seminary professor Charles Dyer's book was published in January, 1991, The Rise of Babylon: Sign of the End Time. Babylon was on the map again! So was Dallas Seminary. Hot stuff!

Even before Dr. Dyer got into the race for royalties, retired Dallas Seminary president John Walvoord spotted a fabulous new market for his 1974 Armageddon prophecy book that had gone out of print. Once again, the gullible victims streamed into the book stores to get the inside dope. The cash registers hummed. Royalties flowed. One million copies of this resurrected potboiler had been sold by February (Time, Feb. 11, 1991).

But then a funny thing happened on the night of January 16, 1991. Our Air Force began the smashing of "Babylon.” Over the next month, bombs smashed Iraq flat. Flatter than the collected works of Hal Lindsey. Thud. "It's revised edition time!"

Hoaxed Again!
The realization began to dawn on the hapless troops in the pews: hoaxed again. Again! Nuts! People don't like to be hoaxed. Christians don't like to be hoaxed in the name of Jesus. Fundamentalists love to be thrilled. They love sensationalism. But at some point, their resentment about being hoaxed overcomes their love of endlessly false prophecies.

Then came the week of August 19. Thud. Down went Dzerzhinsky's statue. Down went the dreams of the Communist Party's leaders. Boris Pugo shot his wife and killed himself. Marshal Akhromeyev committed suicide. Soviet Communism died. It's over.

So is Hal Lindsey's reputation as a prophet. So is John Walvoord's. Walvoord, at 80, lived to see it. I regard this as evidence that God has a marvelous sense of humor.

I wonder how it feels. To be a Communist who lives long enough to have seen this. To be a best-selling paperback book author whose specialty is false prophecies about Russia's coming invasion of Israel. To see the work of your life get flushed down the commode of history. ("This can't be happening. It just can't!") It must be painful. I hope so.

The day after Dzerzhinsky's statue crashed to the ground in what was then called Dzerzhinsky Square, but what will soon be called something else, Paul Crouch announced to his Trinity Broadcasting Network (TBN) viewers: "We need to get Hal Lindsey on the show to explain the meaning of what has happened.” Indeed you do, Paul. Let him try to reconcile these events for your emotionally victimized followers. Let him play the "identify Babylon” game one more time. Let's see Hal Lindsey dance the "Whisenant two-step.” It greatly resembles "Montezuma's two-step.” In both dances, the pressure is intense. There will be dozens of Whisenant two-steppers in 1992, the year of the revised editions.

Rapture Postponed
It's all over. The curtain has come down. The Rapture has been postponed. Again. A dispensationalist can still argue that the inevitable invasion of Israel by Russia may take place in a hundred years or a thousand, but the troops in the pews have been told for 135 years that this event is imminent. The Rapture was due at any moment because Russia was going to invade the State of Israel in any moment plus seven years. "The clock of prophecy is ticking again!” shouted all those best-selling authors who never bothered to tell their hapless followers that according to original dispensational theology, the clock of prophecy will not start ticking until after the Rapture. It's "any-moment Rapture” vs. "ticking clock today."

Even John Walvoord couldn't resist those fabulous book royalties (1.6 million copies, as of August). He had to get back into the pop-dispensationalist parade. He announced that the clock of prophecy was again ticking (USA Today, Jan. 19, 1991). He abandoned the doctrine of the any-moment Rapture, which he had long taught. He thereby baptized Hal Lindsey's "just around the corner” eschatology. And then… thud. Goodbye reputation.

Smashed. Smashed. Smashed by Norman Schwarzkopf in January and by Boris Yeltsin in August. Flattened. Dead. "Rapture postponed indefinitely.” What now?

"This is the day which the LORD hath made; we will rejoice and be glad in it." Psalm 118:24
 
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marks

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Bible called it "Samuel" because it took the form of Samuel. So, the dead know something?
All I'm saying is that the Bible tells us that Saul instructed the lady to bring up Samuel, and it goes on to say that Samuel came and spoke with Saul. And the conversation was as if this was Samuel. Is God trying to fool us?

One thing I look at is genre, when comparing these sorts of things. This is simple narrative, just the same as in telling us that Israel passed through the Red Sea on dry land. If I accept the one, I should accept the other.

Your thoughts?

Much love!
 

marks

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How? Doesn't it say he lived almost 1,000 years?
How do we define life, for one thing? How do we define death?

To me death is separation. Adam's spirit was separated from God resulting in spiritual death, on that day. Physical death followed, as his spirit was later separated from his body.

Resurrection is to reconstitute the body, and rejoin it to the spirit.

How do we see rebirth? Is it receiving some new qualitative state, or is it being born a new being? And if it's being born a new being, what is the relationship of this new being, the child of God, and the body I use?

"I am the God of your father, the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob", in this, Jesus declared, these men live, because God is the God of the living. These men know God.

That which is dead is dead, but that which is alive is alive.

Much love!