Faith Doctrine--any real defense?

[Randy Kluth]

I lived for some time in a church that partly emphasized Faith Doctrine. I was ready to quit, but persisted because I knew my brothers and sisters in leadership were genuine Christians and otherwise ministered the word of God. That leadership has now suddenly gone away.

My pastors--a husband and wife team--refused to engage others on biblical matters, and yet explicitly and openly invited questions from the congregation. I asked questions, was given email, and then both pastors refused to respond to my concerns over many months and even years.

The church, in fact, had come to a division even earlier than this. A number of board members, other leaders, and other members of the congregation--a small group--had been asking questions about non-theological issues. They were concerned about things like power, exclusivity in decision-making, and money. They were marginalized and demonized by the pastors. And I stood by the pastors, for the most part.

But our church divided, and has not grown since. And in the interim a man came into our congregation and began to declare Faith Doctrine--Kenneth Copeland--was the answer--just as our brother is now declaring Jesse Duplantis is the answer.

The pastors gave this man wide berth to put his ideas into motion. He taught giving, led the worship at times, and openly promoted Faith Doctrine, or confession. After many months, zilch. The problem was spiritual, and he was glossing this over with false hope, and, I believe, false doctrine.

This is when I approached this brother and the pastors with the issue of Faith Doctrine. Every one of them wanted to preach to me about Faith, but *not one of them* even tried to answer any of the questions I had for them, in regard to the Bible.

The brother responded to me the way some are responding to me now, with a degree of hostility and resistance. This brother, who ended his time with us, packed up and moved to Missouri--I live in the Pacific NW. The pastors were forced to leave the church a short while later, because some of the people believed the pastors had health issues in their family that should be their priority.

If those in Faith Doctrine want to have their beliefs treated with respect they *must* be willing to engage questions about how biblical their beliefs are. Disagreement itself is okay, as long as an effort is being made to answer legitimate questions about the biblical basis for their beliefs. Otherwise, their resistance and their hostility will be noted as a form of carnal partisanship. We should all, as Christians, be on the same page and trust we can disagree agreeably and address the same biblical issues honestly.

 

[Randy Kluth]

Here are some important questions that Faith Proponents have refused to respond to on this forum.
1) What is the difference between Faith in the Present Age and Faith in the coming Age of the Kingdom?
2) What are the limits to what things we can "claim?"

These are two simple questions, and the response thus far has been for the Faith Proponents to dig in, circle the wagons, and attack those who ask questions.

All can be forgiven if there is some effort to respond--a real effort. I haven't demanded complete agreement. But it should be acknowledged that I have legitimate biblical concerns about Faith Doctrine, from its origins in Mind Science and Hypnosis to the doctrines of confession and healing and prosperity.

1 Cor 4.8 Already you have all you want! Already you have become rich! You have begun to reign—and that without us! How I wish that you really had begun to reign so that we also might reign with you! 9 For it seems to me that God has put us apostles on display at the end of the procession, like those condemned to die in the arena. We have been made a spectacle to the whole universe, to angels as well as to human beings. 10 We are fools for Christ, but you are so wise in Christ! We are weak, but you are strong! You are honored, we are dishonored! 11 To this very hour we go hungry and thirsty, we are in rags, we are brutally treated, we are homeless. 12 We work hard with our own hands. When we are cursed, we bless; when we are persecuted, we endure it; 13 when we are slandered, we answer kindly. We have become the scum of the earth, the garbage of the world—right up to this moment.
14 I am writing this not to shame you but to warn you as my dear children.

 

[Timtofly]

I think that part of the works of the Holy Spirit stopped is because they were personal and only led to the truth. In those fruits, there was no growth nor stability. The only stability, and for the most part unchanging truth, is the written Word of God. It was the Bible that was supposed to be kept from ever changing doctrine and heresy. The words as given were not supposed to change on a whim. That is how we obtained the mountain of extra-biblical writings. The Word of God was left alone. But hundreds of human opinions entered the church, via that body of writings. Even the uncertain doctrine of spiritual gifts was passed down, instead of phased out.

The issue is that those gifts are for the church. The church will not be around when those gifts again come into the human experience as God uses them. Any one with those gifts in the tribulation will not be part of the church, the body of Christ. And those who think they are going to be used of God now, and by God later, will be rudely awakened. Those humans have not been sealed yet. Only those 144K direct descendants of Jacob, after the 7th Seal is opened will be used for God with those gifts, and the pouring out of the Holy Spirit on them, in the judgments of the Trumpets.

 

[Keraz]

Multitudes of people throughout the world await the Glorious Return of Jesus to reign as King of the world. Many others doubt this and would like to eliminate the possibility, because they do not want to face the consequences.

Belief in the reality of Christ’s Return and His Kingdom, as against disbelief, means that there are two major categories of people in the world:- Those referred to in Scripture as “the people of God”, 1 Peter 2:10 and those who do not belong to Him – John 8:47.

For His people still living at the Return, who can be from every race, nation and language, there will be rejoicing, praise, worship, and unending happiness. For those who have refused the salvation offered, it will be an opposite kind of destiny or just annihilation, but for both: the consequences will be eternal.
The distinction between the two groups is not based on education, race, wealth, culture, or religious affiliation. It is based on our relationship with God. We are all in one category or the other. The Bible calls unrepentant sinners “evildoers”. It calls forgiven sinners “saints”.

Romans 2:9-11 There will be trouble and distress for every human who does evil, first for the Israelite, then for the Gentile. But for everyone who does what is right, there will be glory, honor and peace. God has no favorites.


We who are followers of Jesus Christ are to keep faithful, praying, proclaiming the Gospel, manifesting His love and mercy, living for Him and doing His will– until He comes.
An attitude of faithful consistency in serving and obeying our Lord, is different from the escapist attitude of some who talk so much about the prospect of being raptured out of this wicked world at any moment.

The prophetic truth: “we shall be caught up in the air to meet Him,” as He Returns to earth, should not obscure the importance of being prepared for the trials and tribulations to come before His Millennial reign.



James 5:7-11 You must be patient, my friends, until the Lord comes. Consider the farmer, looking for a good crop, waiting patiently for the rains to fall. You, too, must be patient and strong, for the coming of the Lord is near. My friends, do not blame your troubles on one another, or you will be judged and there at the door stands the Judge. As your example of patience, look at the prophets, who stood firm under ill treatment. See how Job stood firm and how God blessed him in the end, for the Lord is merciful and compassionate. Those who keep their faith will be happy and blessed.

1 Peter 1:5 Because you have put your faith in God, you are under the protection of His power, until the salvation now in readiness is revealed at the end of this age.

Philippians 1:9-11 And this is my prayer: that your love may grow ever richer in knowledge and insight of every kind, enabling you to learn by experience what things really matter. Then on the Day of Christ, [His Return] you will be flawless and without blame, yielding the full harvest of righteousness that comes through Jesus Christ, to the glory and praise of God. John 3:16-21
Ref; REB. Some verses abridged.