"Special Revelation" #&*@ -- Seriously??

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amigo de christo

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Describe your "smell test."

Please rewatch the video . and then wait for the moment he pauses . You hear silence and then .........
THAT SMELL is what most doctrines in most churches smell like to these nostrils . WE BESS GET In bibles and fast .
Okay , you all may return to the original post now .
 
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amigo de christo

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If a revelation is truly from God then I agree. But people shouldn't accept a revelation just because someone says "God gave me a revelation." The spirits have to pass the smell test.
IF by smell you mean the doctrine in that bible , I FULLY AGREE . IT cannot contradict it .
For it it does , please watch the video below , its naught but stink to my nostrils .
 
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ScottA

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You aren't making a distinction between the spiritual Kingdom of God that Christ came to earth a man with, and the Kingdom of God that shall be physically upon the new earth when Christ comes again.

Yes, that is correct. Nor should I, for the new heavens and new earth are the act of God to make all things "on earth as they are in heaven." Which is to say, spirit, just as God is spirit, and perfect.

But don't misunderstand. What the world has known of what is "physical" was made by God merely speaking it into existence...by the Spirit. It is all spirit. Don't discount it. The mistake is to think that what is made manifest is greater than He who made if manifest--as if the clay is greater than the Potter. Don't be fooled. “Eye has not seen, nor ear heard, Nor have entered into the heart of man The things which God has prepared for those who love Him.
 
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ScottA

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Scott every eye will see (all who are still alive) Christ PHYSICALLY returning with the clouds of heaven in the same way He was seen departing from this earth. ALL without exception (even the dead) will see Him, because ALL without exception (living & dead) will be called before the Great White Throne Judgment, where those who remain DEAD will be judged by what is written in the books and the book of life.

By definition "every eye" is not just one generation, or one group within sight of Jerusalem. Do you too need to be told again that the scope of things, is "as the stars of the heaven and as the sand which is on the seashore?"

And how is it that you do not know that Christ gave His "PHYSICAL" form to the church to be His body? Meaning, that his "PHYSICAL" body cannot return, as many believe--because it never left.
 

rwb

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Yes, that is correct. Nor should I, for the new heavens and new earth are the act of God to make all things "on earth as they are in heaven." Which is to say, spirit, just as God is spirit, and perfect.

But don't misunderstand. What the world has known of what is "physical" was made by God merely speaking it into existence...by the Spirit. It is all spirit. Don't discount it. The mistake is to think that what is made manifest is greater than He who made if manifest--as if the clay is greater than the Popper. Don't be fooled. “Eye has not seen, nor ear heard, Nor have entered into the heart of man The things which God has prepared for those who love Him.

Every living creature upon the earth is a living soul. We are both flesh & bone and spirit. We don't ignore the fact that God created mankind to inhabit a physical, though mortal body with a spirit. The life we receive through the Spirit of Christ in us is not physical it is spiritual life, where our spirit together with the Spirit sent from Christ comes into man during this physical life, making us able to hear spiritual truths through His Spirit, and know that we have eternal spiritual life. And because we have eternal spiritual life, we know that when Christ comes again, He will resurrect our bodies to immortality and incorruptible, fit for life forever on the new earth. A truer statement has never been spoken, "Eye has not seen, nor ear heard, nor have entered into the heart of man the things which God has prepared for those who love Him." We can only IMAGINE, and cling tightly to His promises.
 

Waiting on him

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I’m really surprised at how long you’ve all read the testimony of what your all waiting and watching for, and haven’t concluded you’ve already witnessed it?
 
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rwb

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By definition "every eye" is not just one generation, or one group within sight of Jerusalem. Do you too need to be told again that the scope of things, is "as the stars of the heaven and as the sand which is on the seashore?"

And how is it that you do not know that Christ gave His "PHYSICAL" form to the church to be His body? Meaning, that his "PHYSICAL" body cannot return, as many believe--because it never left.

But you are confusing how only those having physical eyes to see His coming in the clouds, with every eye seeing Christ at the Judgment Throne. Those who physically see His coming again are all kindreds of the earth. It is THEY, not those who have physically died and departed from the earth. Although those who are spiritually alive who have physically died, will be with Christ when He comes again, so they too will be able to see His coming. The physically dead will not see His coming in the clouds because earth and heaven have fled away from them, and there was no place on earth found for them. It is true that all eyes shall see Him. Those still alive on earth shall see Him coming with the clouds of heaven, and every eye of all humankind shall see Christ at the Judgment Throne!

Revelation 1:7 (KJV) Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen.

Mark 13:26 (KJV)
And then shall they see the Son of man coming in the clouds with great power and glory.

Romans 14:10 (KJV) But why dost thou judge thy brother? or why dost thou set at nought thy brother? for we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ.

2 Corinthians 5:10 (KJV) For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad.

Revelation 20:11-12 (KJV)
And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them. And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
 

ScottA

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Every living creature upon the earth is a living soul. We are both flesh & bone and spirit. We don't ignore the fact that God created mankind to inhabit a physical, though mortal body with a spirit. The life we receive through the Spirit of Christ in us is not physical it is spiritual life, where our spirit together with the Spirit sent from Christ comes into man during this physical life, making us able to hear spiritual truths through His Spirit, and know that we have eternal spiritual life. And because we have eternal spiritual life, we know that when Christ comes again, He will resurrect our bodies to immortality and incorruptible, fit for life forever on the new earth. A truer statement has never been spoken, "Eye has not seen, nor ear heard, nor have entered into the heart of man the things which God has prepared for those who love Him." We can only IMAGINE, and cling tightly to His promises.

You still seem to be leaning in a physical direction not fully wanting to give up the flesh as Christ did, who committed His spirit only to the Father, and not His flesh. But do remember also that the end of all things is that we who are His are to be One with Christ in God, an inheritance which flesh and bone cannot inherit, for the elements of such are destroyed. In other words, the resurrection is not of the flesh, in spite of it being enacted as such after the crucifixion of Christ, but only pointed to the spiritual not unlike the temple of stone.
 

rwb

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You still seem to be leaning in a physical direction not fully wanting to give up the flesh as Christ did, who committed His spirit only to the Father, and not His flesh. But do remember also that the end of all things is that we who are His are to be One with Christ in God, an inheritance which flesh and bone cannot inherit, for the elements of such are destroyed. In other words, the resurrection is not of the flesh, in spite of it being enacted as such after the crucifixion of Christ, but only pointed to the spiritual not unlike the temple of stone.

Earth was created for physical beings Scott. Why would the earth be made new again and immortal & incorruptible bodies of flesh resurrected from death to inhabit it, if we shall not be flesh & bone again when Christ comes again? You seem to be leaning in a spiritual direction which the Kingdom of God in heaven is, and that's why heaven is the temporary home of our spirit alive through His Spirit in us after our physical body dies. But there will be a new heaven and new earth after this first heaven and earth pass away. Christ will bring us (eternal spirit) back with Him to give immortal life to our resurrected bodies of flesh and bone. If we are to remain spiritual beings after the spiritual Kingdom of God in heaven is complete, our eternal home would be in heaven and not on the new earth.

1 Thessalonians 4:14 (KJV) For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.
1 Thessalonians 4:15 (KJV) For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.

1 Corinthians 15:51-53 (KJV) Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.
 

ScottA

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But you are confusing how only those having physical eyes to see His coming in the clouds, with every eye seeing Christ at the Judgment Throne. Those who physically see His coming again are all kindreds of the earth. It is THEY, not those who have physically died and departed from the earth. Although those who are spiritually alive who have physically died, will be with Christ when He comes again, so they too will be able to see His coming. The physically dead will not see His coming in the clouds because earth and heaven have fled away from them, and there was no place on earth found for them. It is true that all eyes shall see Him. Those still alive on earth shall see Him coming with the clouds of heaven, and every eye of all humankind shall see Christ at the Judgment Throne!

Revelation 1:7 (KJV) Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen.

Mark 13:26 (KJV)
And then shall they see the Son of man coming in the clouds with great power and glory.

Romans 14:10 (KJV) But why dost thou judge thy brother? or why dost thou set at nought thy brother? for we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ.

2 Corinthians 5:10 (KJV) For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad.

Revelation 20:11-12 (KJV)
And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them. And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.

No, but all go before God in the Judgement, both the dead and the living, whether good or evil. This is the only thing that qualifies to be stated as "every eye shall see", which is also stated as "every knee shall bow." And "coming in the clouds"--is not the clouds of this earth, but "of heaven" just as it was stated.
 

rwb

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No, but all go before God in the Judgement, both the dead and the living, whether good or evil. This is the only thing that qualifies to be stated as "every eye shall see", which is also stated as "every knee shall bow." And "coming in the clouds"--is not the clouds of this earth, but "of heaven" just as it was stated.

This is true! With one BIG difference we are physically resurrected immortal & incorruptible when the last trumpet sounds. Believers will be standing before the Judgment Throne already clothed in immortal & incorruptible bodies, that's why it is only the DEAD who are judged according to what is written in the books and the book of life. Yes, this is why every eye shall see Christ at the GWTJ. To see with physical eyes Christ coming with the clouds "of heaven" will only be those who are still among the physically living on earth. Because heaven and earth will have fled away from the DEAD.

Revelation 20:11-15 (KJV) And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them. And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works. And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works. And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.
 

ScottA

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Earth was created for physical beings Scott. Why would the earth be made new again and immortal & incorruptible bodies of flesh resurrected from death to inhabit it, if we shall not be flesh & bone again when Christ comes again? You seem to be leaning in a spiritual direction which the Kingdom of God in heaven is, and that's why heaven is the temporary home of our spirit alive through His Spirit in us after our physical body dies. But there will be a new heaven and new earth after this first heaven and earth pass away. Christ will bring us (eternal spirit) back with Him to give immortal life to our resurrected bodies of flesh and bone. If we are to remain spiritual beings after the spiritual Kingdom of God in heaven is complete, our eternal home would be in heaven and not on the new earth.

1 Thessalonians 4:14 (KJV) For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.
1 Thessalonians 4:15 (KJV) For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.

1 Corinthians 15:51-53 (KJV) Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.

You are under the wrong impression.

Indeed, God created the heavens and the earth and formed man of the dust of the earth--but it is also written that Adam walked in the cool of the evening with God...whom is spirit. Not beside God, nor as one would walk physically by his natural father, but "with" God, as God who is spirit walks. Do not consider that Adam walking with God means that the flesh walks in the spirit--for it does not. But rather that the spirit that is "alive and remains" walks rather in the flesh. But when such a one is no longer remaining, but is "one taken" he no longer walks in the flesh, and "the other is left."

Heaven is no one's "temporary home." Much of what has been taught was false, just as it was foretold to occur and now has occurred.

As for the new heaven and earth, the two are made One.
 

ScottA

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This is true! With one BIG difference we are physically resurrected immortal & incorruptible when the last trumpet sounds. Believers will be standing before the Judgment Throne already clothed in immortal & incorruptible bodies, that's why it is only the DEAD who are judged according to what is written in the books and the book of life. Yes, this is why every eye shall see Christ at the GWTJ. To see with physical eyes Christ coming with the clouds "of heaven" will only be those who are still among the physically living on earth. Because heaven and earth will have fled away from the DEAD.

Revelation 20:11-15 (KJV) And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them. And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works. And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works. And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

That comes from the misunderstandings and teachings of men. On the contrary--I will explain: The flesh sees in the physical and not in the spirit, but the Spirit sees all--so shall every eye see.
 

Stumpmaster

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Before I get accused again of my own "private interpretation"-- let's get one thing straight:

All revelations from God are "special."

Why is it that most seem to think that revelations must be delivered on a silver platter by the consensus of a learned group of peers? That's not biblical--not even! God even sent a donkey! The closest thing to what most expect would be by the mouth of two or three witnesses among the apostles or the early church fathers--of which Christ had "somewhat against" 5 out of 7. Even among them were disagreements.

Scripture on the other hand is not a product of the consensus of men and their teachings, but rather from among them only what is approved by the providence of God alone--no man or group of men [actually] have the last say.

As for "special revelations", they are not "private interpretations" (which no scripture is). "Private interpretation" means according to one's own understanding. Heaven forbid, that is the actual source of what is taught...and yet it commonly is the case. Many teachers, preachers, pastors, leaders, and even seminaries do exactly that. The hand-me-down teachings of men are made popular by the common lack of understanding known otherwise to be the best of learned minds among scholarly Christian men, by their own assumptions and conjecture are then published and made official...which have been corrupt from the beginning, as the anti-Christ spirit was "already at work" even then.

So, no, Christians cannot out vote what is true and what is not. Many have, and many continue to try--but it doesn't work that way. As a result, church history is full of heretics calling "Heretic!" against many who may very well have been speaking the truth. Just take the apostles--many of whom were persecuted and killed (as were the prophets of old) for telling the truth.

Meanwhile the history of the church and this age was to include (as foretold) "false teachers" bringing in "destructive doctrines" and lies causing "strong delusion"--making everything we have learned suspect... While at the same time, we were to received the revelation of "all truth" being lead by the Holy Spirit, which is to be "finished" before the sounding of the seventh angel. What does that even look like? It looks very much like the past when Israel carrying the water of the truth from God...killed the prophets, and marched on to eventually crucify their own Messiah sent to them.

In other words, as history will attest, Israel rejected "special revelations", just as the church has also.

What's the answer then? It is written, "test the spirits, whether they are of God; because many false prophets have gone out into the world." But also expect that God has been and is doing just as He did in times of old. And how is that? Look it up--read it for yourself that you may be convinced! What was His method then? I tell you He "is the same" even now!
There's no call for expletives or their substitutes, but definitely a call to put the matter straight.

Quote from BingChat:
General and special revelation are two different ways in which God has revealed Himself to mankind in the Bible.
General revelation is the way in which God reveals Himself to all people through nature, history, and human conscience. It is available to everyone and is non-redemptive in nature. For instance, the beauty of nature, the complexity of the universe, and the moral law written on our hearts are all examples of general revelation. Special revelation, on the other hand, is the way in which God reveals Himself to specific individuals or groups of people through supernatural means such as visions, dreams, and prophecy. The Bible is the most significant example of special revelation, as it is the written record of God’s self-revelation to humanity. It is through special revelation that God has revealed His redemptive plan for humanity, which is the salvation of mankind through faith in Jesus Christ 123.
I hope this helps!
 
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rwb

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You are under the wrong impression.

Indeed, God created the heavens and the earth and formed man of the dust of the earth--but it is also written that Adam walked in the cool of the evening with God...whom is spirit. Not beside God, nor as one would walk physically by his natural father, but "with" God, as God who is spirit walks. Do not consider that Adam walking with God means that the flesh walks in the spirit--for it does not. But rather that the spirit that is "alive and remains" walks rather in the flesh. But when such a one is no longer remaining, but is "one taken" he no longer walks in the flesh, and "the other is left."

Heaven is no one's "temporary home." Much of what has been taught was false, just as it was foretold to occur and now has occurred.

As for the new heaven and earth, the two are made One.

We walk with God too when we have the Spirit of Christ in us. We walk with Him just as Enoch, and Noah also did. Just as all who are of faith walk with Him. The spirit in Adam before the fall was not tainted with sin and death. He had not yet become spiritually dead in trespasses and sins. So through his spirit, that came from the breath of God, Adam walked with God. The verse does not say that Adam as a spirit walked with God. He heard the voice of God walking in the garden and they hid themselves from the presence of God knowing they had sinned and that they were physically naked. Adam, like Enoch and Noah were righteous before God, an in righteousness through His Spirit in us we have access to and walk with Him. It wasn't until Adam sinned and showed himself to be a sinner that he lost access and could no longer walk with God through His Spirit, being sent from the garden of Eden, and unable to have access to the tree of life, which is the only way that mankind may walk and commune with Holy God.

Genesis 3:8 (KJV) And they heard the voice of the LORD God walking in the garden in the cool of the day: and Adam and his wife hid themselves from the presence of the LORD God amongst the trees of the garden.

Genesis 5:22 (KJV) And Enoch walked with God after he begat Methuselah three hundred years, and begat sons and daughters:

Genesis 6:9 (KJV) These are the generations of Noah: Noah was a just man and perfect in his generations, and Noah walked with God.

Genesis 3:23-24 (KJV)
Therefore the LORD God sent him forth from the garden of Eden, to till the ground from whence he was taken. So he drove out the man; and he placed at the east of the garden of Eden Cherubims, and a flaming sword which turned every way, to keep the way of the tree of life.
 

ScottA

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We walk with God too when we have the Spirit of Christ in us. We walk with Him just as Enoch, and Noah also did. Just as all who are of faith walk with Him. The spirit in Adam before the fall was not tainted with sin and death. He had not yet become spiritually dead in trespasses and sins. So through his spirit, that came from the breath of God, Adam walked with God. The verse does not say that Adam as a spirit walked with God. He heard the voice of God walking in the garden and they hid themselves from the presence of God knowing they had sinned and that they were physically naked. Adam, like Enoch and Noah were righteous before God, an in righteousness through His Spirit in us we have access to and walk with Him. It wasn't until Adam sinned and showed himself to be a sinner that he lost access and could no longer walk with God through His Spirit, being sent from the garden of Eden, and unable to have access to the tree of life, which is the only way that mankind may walk and commune with Holy God.

Genesis 3:8 (KJV) And they heard the voice of the LORD God walking in the garden in the cool of the day: and Adam and his wife hid themselves from the presence of the LORD God amongst the trees of the garden.

Genesis 5:22 (KJV) And Enoch walked with God after he begat Methuselah three hundred years, and begat sons and daughters:

Genesis 6:9 (KJV) These are the generations of Noah: Noah was a just man and perfect in his generations, and Noah walked with God.

Genesis 3:23-24 (KJV)
Therefore the LORD God sent him forth from the garden of Eden, to till the ground from whence he was taken. So he drove out the man; and he placed at the east of the garden of Eden Cherubims, and a flaming sword which turned every way, to keep the way of the tree of life.

None of that really addresses the point. What I posted did, because I was explaining things in the same way God did in manifesting the world--by example, referring to what is of this world to explain what is not of this world. But again you make it all about this physical world...which it is not...but is rather (as you even said) only a preparation by physical means demonstrating what is to be which is not physical, but spirit. In other words, the image that God has made visible to us is only the object of the lesson and not actually the subject--making it only an example and a parable...which is what He told us he would do (speak in parables) and why I have been explaining in the way that I have.

Sooo...you can keep reverting back to the physical non-subject objects if you prefer them until the elements are destroyed with fervent heat and with fire--surely you can. But the fact that you would prefer them...is an unwise investment in your future.
 

rwb

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None of that really addresses the point. What I posted did, because I was explaining things in the same way God did in manifesting the world--by example, referring to what is of this world to explain what is not of this world. But again you make it all about this physical world...which it is not...but is rather (as you even said) only a preparation by physical means demonstrating what is to be which is not physical, but spirit. In other words, the image that God has made visible to us is only the object of the lesson and not actually the subject--making it only an example and a parable...which is what He told us he would do (speak in parables) and why I have been explaining in the way that I have.

Sooo...you can keep reverting back to the physical non-subject objects if you prefer them until the elements are destroyed with fervent heat and with fire--surely you can. But the fact that you would prefer them...is an unwise investment in your future.

I'm scratching my head Scott, because you've lost me! I've been trying to understand how you believe that physical life was never really the intent of God when He created man from the dust and formed the clay into a human with flesh and bone, then breathed the breath of life into them (spirit) and man became a living soul. Just as with every other living soul upon the earth mankind was physically created for eternity upon the earth. Why would God create humankind a physical being if He wanted them to be spiritual beings? For that matter, why create earth and all things if all that really matters to God is spirit?

If you stop and remember that God knew before creation what the outcome for humankind would be. That's why a plan was ordained in heaven before creation that God would send His Son in human form to the earth, and through Him, God's whole creation would be saved. God took on human form, and He was called Jesus Christ, our Lord and Savior of the world. And that same Jesus in human form would return to this earth again when the spiritual Kingdom of God is complete in heaven.

Don't you realize that when Christ returns to the earth in human form and the physical form of every human that died in faith will be resurrected immortal & incorruptible physical form as it was when created, it will be to inhabit with Christ the whole earth that shall be made new again. God has a purpose for giving mankind physical bodies, and Himself becoming flesh & bone. It is to enjoy God forever in physical form without defect, sin or death on the new earth just as God had intended it to be. Then we shall be able to speak to God face to face, and to see and to know Him as He is.

One thing I try very hard to cling to when trying to understand biblical doctrine is this...my understanding must be logical, if it doesn't seem logical, I most likely have not rightly understood, AND my understanding must not force God to contradict Himself, the Bible never contradicts. Sorry, but in my opinion both could apply to your understanding here.
 

ScottA

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I'm scratching my head Scott, because you've lost me! I've been trying to understand how you believe that physical life was never really the intent of God when He created man from the dust and formed the clay into a human with flesh and bone, then breathed the breath of life into them (spirit) and man became a living soul. Just as with every other living soul upon the earth mankind was physically created for eternity upon the earth. Why would God create humankind a physical being if He wanted them to be spiritual beings? For that matter, why create earth and all things if all that really matters to God is spirit?

If you stop and remember that God knew before creation what the outcome for humankind would be. That's why a plan was ordained in heaven before creation that God would send His Son in human form to the earth, and through Him, God's whole creation would be saved. God took on human form, and He was called Jesus Christ, our Lord and Savior of the world. And that same Jesus in human form would return to this earth again when the spiritual Kingdom of God is complete in heaven.

Don't you realize that when Christ returns to the earth in human form and the physical form of every human that died in faith will be resurrected immortal & incorruptible physical form as it was when created, it will be to inhabit with Christ the whole earth that shall be made new again. God has a purpose for giving mankind physical bodies, and Himself becoming flesh & bone. It is to enjoy God forever in physical form without defect, sin or death on the new earth just as God had intended it to be. Then we shall be able to speak to God face to face, and to see and to know Him as He is.

One thing I try very hard to cling to when trying to understand biblical doctrine is this...my understanding must be logical, if it doesn't seem logical, I most likely have not rightly understood, AND my understanding must not force God to contradict Himself, the Bible never contradicts. Sorry, but in my opinion both could apply to your understanding here.

It is good that you respond with questions, at least in part, as there is a lot to cover. I will be brief.

First, understand that God being "the same yesterday, today, and forever" ("I AM"--not I will be), means that there was and is no actual chronology or sequence of events regarding a pre-creation plan, no foreseen human fall, and no pre-planned fix. If you continue to think chronologically (thinking as a man according to the terms of this world) rather than according to the clear terms of God, there is no possibility of understanding all that is true with God. Let me put it this way: you can continue to render all thing according to this world as unto Caesar, or you can render what is God's unto God. But do realize that leaning one way or the other, will cause the outcome and your understanding will be as different as heaven and earth...just as it has already.

If you are willing and able then, that makes void much of what you have just said. Which brings us back to your questions. If you are not able or willing--that's fine, but it greatly limits your ability to understand the fulness of what is written, in which case you are better to remain a babe, not make any claims about what is true and what is not, not indulge in conjecture, but put your head down and follow the flock until such things are made know at the end of days.

Now then, the earth and everything in it was not created as a new development of new physical life forms of things, creatures, and peoples. But is rather the revelation of all that was in God before the foundation of the world, made manifest in a way of showing both the good and the evil. Which does not actually exist on a timeline of chronology per se, but is as a book first written then read. In other words, the would-be timeline is actually a storyline. Which is to say, the would-be timeline within the story that is written is not actual, but what is actual is the non-timeline of the Author. Contrastingly, God (who is perfect as He is) and the realm of God (heaven), as it is written, is "without shadow of turning"--meaning without form where light and darkness are both clearly shown, and yet divided. The purpose of creating this world then, is to divide the light from the darkness, dissolving or destroying the darkness (evil), which is accomplished by destroying the form which causes the darkness to exist.

In addition, as a revealing of all things whether good or evil ("there is nothing covered that will not be revealed"), the world is the eyewitness testimony and the last will and testament of all who are involved, and "the man of sin revealed"--not of what is or shall be--but of what was "before the foundation of the world."

"Then comes the end."

And because God is perfect and is spirit, it is not wise to speak against the Spirit and what is spiritual.

As for Christ's return--He does not return in human form as you seem to believe, but rather as Paul feared to utter, saying, "for me, to live is Christ." Which ought not to be unclear, as Jesus laid it out, saying "Take, eat, this is my body" leaving it behind with the church, that we should be His "human" body. After which He did not commit His flesh "human" body to the Father, but only His spirit. Then by revelation He even explained just how His returning or "come in the flesh" would occur, saying, "Behold, I stand at the door and knock. If anyone hears My voice and opens the door, I will come in to him and dine with him, and he with Me." Which Paul also eluded to saying, "but each one in his order."

All of which, granted, after 2,000 years of "destructive doctrines" being taught and the "believing of a lie" causing "strong delusion" and great apostacy--is a lot to take in. The good news however, is that He also promised to "lead us unto all truth" and to "finish" all the mysteries of God before "the seventh angel is about to sound."

PS, I do commend you for your discipline in attempting to logically understand what is written...just so you understand that our thoughts are low than His.
 
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rwb

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First, understand that God being "the same yesterday, today, and forever" ("I AM"--not I will be), means that there was and is no actual chronology or sequence of events regarding a pre-creation plan, no foreseen human fall, and no pre-planned fix.

If this were true, Christ would not be the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world. In addition to that there would not be names recorded in the book of life from the foundation of the world.

Revelation 13:8 (KJV) And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

Revelation 3:5 (KJV)
He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels.

Luke 10:20 (KJV)
Notwithstanding in this rejoice not, that the spirits are subject unto you; but rather rejoice, because your names are written in heaven.

Ephesians 1:4 (KJV)
According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

Titus 1:2 (KJV) In hope of eternal life, which God, that cannot lie, promised before the world began
;

None of these verses make any sense whatsoever unless there was a plan ordained in heaven before the creation of mankind. And that plan would be enacted through the human birth of the Son of God, when the virgin would conceive through the Holy Spirit, and after death His body would be resurrected by the power of the Father. This is the Covenant of Redemption that was ordained in heaven, and recorded in Scripture by Zechariah.

Zechariah 3:8 (KJV) Hear now, O Joshua the high priest, thou, and thy fellows that sit before thee: for they are men wondered at: for, behold, I will bring forth my servant the BRANCH.

Zechariah 6:12-13 (KJV)
And speak unto him, saying, Thus speaketh the LORD of hosts, saying, Behold the man whose name is The BRANCH; and he shall grow up out of his place, and he shall build the temple of the LORD: Even he shall build the temple of the LORD; and he shall bear the glory, and shall sit and rule upon his throne; and he shall be a priest upon his throne: and the counsel of peace shall be between them both.
Now then, the earth and everything in it was not created as a new development of new physical life forms of things, creatures, and peoples. But is rather the revelation of all that was in God before the foundation of the world, made manifest in a way of showing both the good and the evil.

You are not reading the Bible, which is the true and faithful Words of God. At least not the same Bible that I read. You appear to be following some form of mysticism or some kind of new age spiritual learning that finds no validation from the Word of God.
 
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