False Doctrine of the "Secret Rapture".

[The Light]

Which proves that dispens are incapable of understanding the Scriptural difference between wrath and tribulation.

Oh boy. Sorry bub. I understand that the tribulation is over at the sixth seal and wrath starts after the 7th seal is opened when the 1st trumpet of wrath sounds.

Which means you have the Church going through the wrath of God.................but we are not appointed to wrath.

 

[ewq1938]

The trumpets of wrath begin after the 7th seal is opened

They are not called trumpets of wrath. The vials/bowls are called wrath though. This is one of your mistakes.

, at the sounding of the 1st trumpet. So yes, you have the Church going through the wrath of God.

No, I don't. You always ignore the fact that the bible says God's wrath starts at the 7th trump. You refuse to acknowledge that, preferring your own beliefs that God's wrath ends at the 7th trump. That's literally the opposite of what is written. Why would you do that?

 

[covenantee]

Oh boy. Sorry bub. I understand that the tribulation is over at the sixth seal and wrath starts after the 7th seal is opened when the 1st trumpet of wrath sounds.

Which means you have the Church going through the wrath of God.................but we are not appointed to wrath.

Interpretive Scripture for your seals.

1 Thessalonians 5
9 For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ,

Revelation 7
14 And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.

 

[David in NJ]

Oh boy. Sorry bub. I understand that the tribulation is over at the sixth seal and wrath starts after the 7th seal is opened when the 1st trumpet of wrath sounds.

Which means you have the Church going through the wrath of God.................but we are not appointed to wrath.

The 6th Seal is not actualized until chapter 19.

You need to turn the Light On.................oopsies, your oil is almost out!

Good News - "the Truth will set you Free and Fill you UP"

 

[rebuilder 454]

This is true.

David also committed adultery and had Bathsheba's husband murdered to cover it up.

JESUS follows in David's footsteps???

When JESUS was a young boy and He read the Torah, do you think He said to Himself: "Boy, I want to be like King David and have many wives"

In the ultimate fulfilment, the throne of David will be re established and Jesus will occupy it.
Do a study on David as the forerunner of Jesus.
Or maybe a good start would be to understand the forerunner dynamic.

 

[David in NJ]

In the ultimate fulfilment, the throne of David will be re established and Jesus will occupy it.
Do a study on David as the forerunner of Jesus.
Or maybe a good start would be to understand the forerunner dynamic.

YES, my Brother = i do understand the dynamics of OT prophecy and types that point to Christ

We must be able to understand where the separation lies between the Messiah and the doings of men called to follow Messiah.

David was a Messianic believer/follower and the Holy Spirit manifested that in David's life = but not all of it was of God, was it now!

Which brings us back to the question = How many wives does JESUS have?

 

[The Light]

Interpretive Scripture for your seals.

1 Thessalonians 5
9 For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ,

Revelation 7
14 And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.

So you're telling me you don't understand the difference between tribulation and wrath.

 

[The Light]

The 6th Seal is not actualized until chapter 19.

Oh ok. So the great multitude in heaven in Revelation 7 is a mirage. They are not there.

You need to learn the difference between tribulation and wrath. I thought it was pretribbers that didn't understand the difference.

 

[David in NJ]

Oh ok. So the great multitude in heaven in Revelation 7 is a mirage. They are not there.

You need to learn the difference between tribulation and wrath. I thought it was pretribbers that didn't understand the difference.

How did the great multitude arrive in Heaven? What was the mode of operation that transferred them?

 

[The Light]

They are not called trumpets of wrath. The vials/bowls are called wrath though. This is one of your mistakes.

And yet they are trumpets of wrath and wrath is over when the 7th trumpet sounds, and Christ has set up His kingdom on earth.

No, I don't. You always ignore the fact that the bible says God's wrath starts at the 7th trump.

I don't ignore the fact that wrath is come. And is over when the Lord sets up His kingdom on earth and the dead are judged. You want to ignore the facts and pretend Christ has not set up His kingdom when the Word says He has.

You refuse to acknowledge that, preferring your own beliefs that God's wrath ends at the 7th trump.

I acknowledge what the scripture clearly says.

Revelation 10
7 But in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he shall begin to sound, the mystery of God should be finished, as he hath declared to his servants the prophets.

That's literally the opposite of what is written. Why would you do that?

It's obvious that you ignore what is written because it disagrees with your doctrine. You have the Church going through the wrath of God. We are not appointed to wrath.

 

[The Light]

How did the great multitude arrive in Heaven? What was the mode of operation that transferred them?

His angels gather the elect shown both in Matthew 24 and Revelation 14. This happens immediately after the tribulation and BEFORE the wrath of God, as we can see in Revelation 6 and Revelation 14. And Matthew 24 occurs at the sixth seal as marked by signs of the sun, moon and stars.

Matthew 24
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

Revelation 14
14 And I looked, and behold a white cloud, and upon the cloud one sat like unto the Son of man, having on his head a golden crown, and in his hand a sharp sickle.

15 And another angel came out of the temple, crying with a loud voice to him that sat on the cloud, Thrust in thy sickle, and reap: for the time is come for thee to reap; for the harvest of the earth is ripe.

16 And he that sat on the cloud thrust in his sickle on the earth; and the earth was reaped.

17 And another angel came out of the temple which is in heaven, he also having a sharp sickle.

18 And another angel came out from the altar, which had power over fire; and cried with a loud cry to him that had the sharp sickle, saying, Thrust in thy sharp sickle, and gather the clusters of the vine of the earth; for her grapes are fully ripe.

19 And the angel thrust in his sickle into the earth, and gathered the vine of the earth, and cast it into the great winepress of the wrath of God.

 

[David in NJ]

His angels gather the elect shown both in Matthew 24 and Revelation 14. This happens immediately after the tribulation and BEFORE the wrath of God, as we can see in Revelation 6 and Revelation 14. And Matthew 24 occurs at the sixth seal as marked by signs of the sun, moon and stars.

Matthew 24
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

Revelation 14
14 And I looked, and behold a white cloud, and upon the cloud one sat like unto the Son of man, having on his head a golden crown, and in his hand a sharp sickle.

15 And another angel came out of the temple, crying with a loud voice to him that sat on the cloud, Thrust in thy sickle, and reap: for the time is come for thee to reap; for the harvest of the earth is ripe.

16 And he that sat on the cloud thrust in his sickle on the earth; and the earth was reaped.

17 And another angel came out of the temple which is in heaven, he also having a sharp sickle.

18 And another angel came out from the altar, which had power over fire; and cried with a loud cry to him that had the sharp sickle, saying, Thrust in thy sharp sickle, and gather the clusters of the vine of the earth; for her grapes are fully ripe.

19 And the angel thrust in his sickle into the earth, and gathered the vine of the earth, and cast it into the great winepress of the wrath of God.

YEP, another iteration of the Second Coming = there are at least 7 of them in Revelation

Does this mean, chronologically, that chapter 14 is the exact time of His Coming in Revelation = Nope

Chronological detail of His Second Coming is given in the Gospel, OT Prophets and the Apostles.
Revelation is a continuous REVEALING of the many aspects that occur prior to, during and up to His Second Coming

 

[covenantee]

So you're telling me you don't understand the difference between tribulation and wrath.

So you're telling me you don't understand the difference between 1 Thessalonians 5:9 and Revelation 7:14.

 

[Timtofly]

After that ends, the rapture happens then the wrath of God pours on the unsaved who are the only people on the Earth.

Even the 2 witnesses are laying dead in Jerusalem, and not raptured during the pouring out of God's wrath. They lay there dead for 3.5 days.

All the rest were beheaded. No one considered a saint is alive on earth at that point. The 2 witnesses return to life and then caught up. Are you saying that Paul was wrong, and that we will actually all be dead for 3 days and then resurrected and then caught up?

 

[Timtofly]

The 6th Seal is not actualized until chapter 19.

Then how are Jesus and the angels on the earth during the final harvest if every one is already dead? The final harvest is not physically dead people, but physically alive people. Matthew 13 is not after all are dead. Matthew 25 is not after all are dead. The 10 virgins are not waiting there in physical death, are they? All of humanity is alive on the earth when Jesus comes with all the angels. Except the church, they are caught up while Jesus and the angels are on the way down. Since when have angels needed to ride horses? Is that why the stars appear white, because they are white horses?

Seems to me, those on white horses are the firstfruits gathered by Jesus and the angels during the 7 Trumpets and 7 Thunders. So the Trumpets and Thunders are the final harvest, also called Jacob's trouble and the GT. They leave earth during Satan's 42 months of AoD. That is why we see them return in Revelation 19. The 6th Seal is the beginning of the final harvest. The 7th Trumpet ends the final harvest. The reason for Revelation 19, is because the final harvest is not on the earth during Satan's 42 months of AoD. Yet you claim the church did not leave at the Second Coming, nor with the final harvest, but still hanging out on earth as the 2 witnesses. Who are also killed, lay dead in Jerusalem for 3.5 days and then caught up. How many of the church can fit in the streets of Jerusalem?

 

[The Light]

So you're telling me you don't understand the difference between 1 Thessalonians 5:9 and Revelation 7:14.

They have nothing to do with each other.

 

[The Light]

YEP, another iteration of the Second Coming = there are at least 7 of them in Revelation

No. Go Fish.

Does this mean, chronologically, that chapter 14 is the exact time of His Coming in Revelation = Nope

The coming of Jesus in Revelation 14 confirms Revelation 6 that Jesus comes BEFORE wrath for the harvest.

Chronological detail of His Second Coming is given in the Gospel, OT Prophets and the Apostles.
Revelation is a continuous REVEALING of the many aspects that occur prior to, during and up to His Second Coming

= lack of understanding

 

[David in NJ]

No. Go Fish.


The coming of Jesus in Revelation 14 confirms Revelation 6 that Jesus comes BEFORE wrath for the harvest.

= lack of understanding

YEP - i am heading to Vermont to do some fishing.

Meanwhile, Revelation continues to reveal the revealings of His Second Coming on multiple levels not understood by most.

Pre-trbbers cannot get past Matthew ch24, let alone try and understand Revelation!!!

 

[Timtofly]

How did the great multitude arrive in Heaven? What was the mode of operation that transferred them?

The angels have been gathering them for the last 1993 years. They took the soul of the thief on the cross. They took the soul of Stephen as he was stoned to death, the start of great tribulation that ends at the Second Coming. The Lamb has been in their midst since Jesus ascended in Acts 1. They have been serving God day and night in the heavenly temple. They all will meet those alive on the earth at the opening of the 5th Seal, and the entire church body will be glorified, as symbolized by the putting on of white robes. As Paul put it death putting on life. No more separation from our spirit.

The work of the Holy Spirit is finished at that point, as sons of God, the church is completed, soul, body, and spirit. Then the 6th Seal is opened.

 

[David in NJ]

The angels have been gathering them for the last 1993 years. They took the soul of the thief on the cross. They took the soul of Stephen as he was stoned to death, the start of great tribulation that ends at the Second Coming. The Lamb has been in their midst since Jesus ascended in Acts 1. They have been serving God day and night in the heavenly temple. They all will meet those alive on the earth at the opening of the 5th Seal, and the entire church body will be glorified, as symbolized by the putting on of white robes. As Paul put it death putting on life. No more separation from our spirit.

The work of the Holy Spirit is finished at that point, as sons of God, the church is completed, soul, body, and spirit. Then the 6th Seal is opened.

They all will meet those alive on the earth at the opening of the 5th Seal, and the entire church body will be glorified, as symbolized by the putting on of white robes.

Revelation ch6 and the 5th Seal does not say this = please read again AND reject the temptation to add to God's words