Folks are tired of a reformation and hunger for a transformation, which Acts 2:38 will provide

[mailmandan]

Your problem is you think that Jesus taught "he that believeth and is not baptized shall be saved"....

Which is exactly opposite of what he actually said.

You also think that Jesus was pretty dumb, saying that unbelievers would also be baptized thus be condemned.

Your problem is you isolate half of one verse then build doctrine on it while ignoring the second half of the verse. Mark 16:16 - He who believes and is baptized will be saved (general cases without making a qualification for the unusual case of someone who believes but is not baptized) but he who does not believe will be condemned. The omission of baptized with "does not believe" shows that Jesus does not make water baptism absolutely necessary for salvation. Condemnation rests on unbelief and not on a lack of baptism. So salvation rests on belief. *NOWHERE does the Bible say "baptized or condemned."

So you choose to ignore these verses in John that were directly from Jesus? (John 3:15,16,18; 5:24; 6:29,40,47; 11:25,26) Also, there are plenty of people who don't truly believe in Jesus unto salvation, yet get water baptized anyway. Such people may believe "mental assent" in the existence and historical facts about Jesus, including that His death, burial and resurrection "happened," yet such people are not trusting in the death, burial and resurrection of Christ as the ALL-sufficient means of their salvation, but instead, are trusting in their baptism (along with other works) to save them.

 

[Truther]

Your problem is you isolate half of one verse then build doctrine on it while ignoring the second half of the verse. Mark 16:16 - He who believes and is baptized will be saved (general cases without making a qualification for the unusual case of someone who believes but is not baptized) but he who does not believe will be condemned. The omission of baptized with "does not believe" shows that Jesus does not make water baptism absolutely necessary for salvation. Condemnation rests on unbelief and not on a lack of baptism. So salvation rests on belief. *NOWHERE does the Bible say "baptized or condemned."

So you choose to ignore these verses in John that were directly from Jesus? (John 3:15,16,18; 5:24; 6:29,40,47; 11:25,26) Also, there are plenty of people who don't truly believe in Jesus unto salvation, yet get water baptized anyway. Such people may believe "mental assent" in the existence and historical facts about Jesus, including that His death, burial and resurrection "happened," yet such people are not trusting in the death, burial and resurrection of Christ as the ALL-sufficient means of their salvation, but instead, are trusting in their baptism (along with other works) to save them.

You just inadvertently admitted that Jesus said "He that believeth and is not baptized shall be saved..." or, "he that believes and is saved can get baptized or not, because it is unnecessary..."

Dan, you really do debunk Mark 16:16.

Is it worth it?

Will you get away with it?

I trow not.

 

[GRACE ambassador]

*NOWHERE does the Bible say "baptized or condemned."

So, this is Incorrect?:

Luk 7:29 And all the people that heard him, and the publicans,
justified God, being baptized with the baptism of John.
Luk 7:30 But the Pharisees and lawyers rejected the counsel of
God against themselves, being not baptized of him.

???

 

[mailmandan]

You just inadvertently admitted that Jesus said "He that believeth and is not baptized shall be saved..." or, "he that believes and is saved can get baptized or not, because it is unnecessary..."

Dan, you really do debunk Mark 16:16.

Is it worth it?

Will you get away with it?

I trow not.

If he who believes shall be saved (John 3:15,16,18,36; 5:24; 6:40,47; 11:25,26) then he who believes and is baptized shall be saved as well, but who did Jesus say would be condemned? Whoever is not baptized? NO. Whoever does not believe. (Mark 16:16(b); John 3:18) *Hermeneutics*

 

[mailmandan]

So, this is Incorrect?:

Luk 7:29 And all the people that heard him, and the publicans,
justified God, being baptized with the baptism of John.
Luk 7:30 But the Pharisees and lawyers rejected the counsel of
God against themselves, being not baptized of him.

???

Luke 7:29-30 is not incorrect. Luke 7:29 - When all the people and the tax collectors heard this, they justified God/acknowledged God's justice, (signified by) having been baptized with the baptism of John. 30 But the Pharisees and the lawyers rejected God's purpose for themselves, (signified by) not having been baptized by John. Baptism did not magically make them become disciples, but their decision to become disciples was signified by receiving water baptism.

 

[Truther]

If he who believes shall be saved (John 3:15,16,18,36; 5:24; 6:40,47; 11:25,26) then he who believes and is baptized shall be saved as well, but who did Jesus say would be condemned? Whoever is not baptized? NO. Whoever does not believe. (Mark 16:16(b); John 3:18) *Hermeneutics*

Think Dan.

Jesus knows unbelievers don't get baptized, therefore they are damned.

You think the Apostles were morons and Jesus would have to say .."he that does not believe and is not baptized..." to them.

You are desperately trying to make Jesus look bad per Mark 16:16.

 

[mailmandan]

Think Dan.

Jesus knows unbelievers don't get baptized, therefore they are damned.

You think the Apostles were morons and Jesus would have to say .."he that does not believe and is not baptized..." to them.

You are desperately trying to make Jesus look bad per Mark 16:16.

So you truly believe that EVERYONE who has ever received water baptism is a genuine believer who trusts in Jesus Christ as the ALL-sufficient means of their salvation? Even people who attend false religions and cults, along with infants? Are you really that naive? Those who trust in works for salvation do not trust in Jesus Christ as the ALL-sufficient means of their salvation and are not genuine believers. You need to think really hard about that.

 

[Truther]

So you truly believe that EVERYONE who has ever received water baptism is a genuine believer who trusts in Jesus Christ as the ALL-sufficient means of their salvation? Even people who attend false religions and cults, along with infants? Are you really that naive? Those who trust in works for salvation do not trust in Jesus Christ as the ALL .-sufficient means of their salvation and are not genuine believers. You need to think really hard about that.

No, I think if a person decides to get baptized per Acts 2:38, they believe enough to do it. We are not the faith police.

We only ask them if they believe with all their heart as per Acts 8 with Phillip and the eunuch.

That confession is the qualifier to baptize them for the remission of sins.

And yes, Acts 2:38 will all we will reflect on as we exit this world.

I will, by faith, KNOW that my sins were remitted on Oct 7, 1979 at Apostolic Tabernacle when pastor Joe Arroyo baptized me by immersion in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of my sins, and I left that night completely delivered from all of my vices to prove it's transforming power.

That will be my defense before almighty God.

 

[mailmandan]

No, I think if a person decides to get baptized per Acts 2:38, they believe enough to do it. We are not the faith police.

So you admit that not everyone who receives water baptism is a genuine believer? One who has placed their faith in Jesus Christ as the ALL-sufficient means of their salvation. There have been plenty of people who have received water baptism because they are trusting in water baptism to save them instead of trusting exclusively in Jesus Christ to save them.

We only ask them if they believe with all their heart as per Acts 8 with Phillip and the eunuch.

Believing in water baptism + other works for salvation is not believing in Jesus Christ with all your heart.

That confession is the qualifier to baptize them for the remission of sins.

Lip service confession + faith in water baptism for salvation (instead of faith in Jesus Christ alone for salvation) is not a significant qualifier.

And yes, Acts 2:38 will all we will reflect on as we exit this world.

You mean faith in water baptism instead of faith in Jesus Christ alone for salvation is what you will reflect on as you exit this world. I will be reflecting on Acts 10:43-47; 11:17,18; 15:8,9; 16:31; 26:18; Romans 1:16; 3:24-28; 4:5-6; 5:1 and numerous other passages of scripture which make it clear man is saved through faith and not by works when I exit this world. Either we are trusting 100% in Jesus Christ as the ALL-sufficient means of our salvation or else we are 100% lost.

I will, by faith, KNOW that my sins were remitted on Oct 7, 1979 at Apostolic Tabernacle when pastor Joe Arroyo baptized me by immersion in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of my sins, and I left that night completely delivered from all of my vices to prove it's transforming power.

Moral self-reformation can get confused with regeneration.

That will be my defense before almighty God.

So at the judgment, you will be saying Lord, Lord, didn't I receive water baptism, attend the church of Christ and do many wonderful works? That will be your defense? I will be saying, Lord, Lord didn't YOU die for my sins, were buried and rose again the third day to provide for me eternal life. (1 Corinthians 15:1-4) I trust in YOU as the ALL-sufficient means of my salvation.

I received Jesus Christ through faith several years ago late one Saturday night after diligently searching the scriptures and knew without a doubt that I had become born again that night, yet I was unable to receive water baptism until Sunday morning. I actually could not wait to get water baptized on Sunday morning and I even gave a 5 minute testimony just prior to receiving water baptism on how I was raised in the Roman Catholic church and had also temporarily attended the church of Christ and was taught the false doctrine of baptismal regeneration/remission/salvation by works, but now finally understand what it truly means to believe the gospel (Romans 1:16) and my life has been transformed ever since. Praise God!

1 John 5:11 - And this is the testimony: that God has given us eternal life, and this life is in His Son. 12 He who has the Son has life; he who does not have the Son of God does not have life. 13 These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, that you may know that you have eternal life, and that you may continue to believe in the name of the Son of God.

 

[Truther]

So you admit that not everyone who receives water baptism is a genuine believer? One who has placed their faith in Jesus Christ as the ALL-sufficient means of their salvation. There have been plenty of people who have received water baptism because they are trusting in water baptism to save them instead of trusting exclusively in Jesus Christ to save them.

Believing in water baptism + other works for salvation is not believing in Jesus Christ with all your heart.

Lip service confession + faith in water baptism for salvation (instead of faith in Jesus Christ alone for salvation) is not a significant qualifier.

You mean faith in water baptism instead of faith in Jesus Christ alone for salvation is what you will reflect on as you exit this world. I will be reflecting on Acts 10:43-47; 11:17,18; 15:8,9; 16:31; 26:18; Romans 1:16; 3:24-28; 4:5-6; 5:1 and numerous other passages of scripture which make it clear man is saved through faith and not by works when I exit this world. Either we are trusting 100% in Jesus Christ as the ALL-sufficient means of our salvation or else we are 100% lost.

Moral self-reformation can get confused with regeneration.

So at the judgment, you will be saying Lord, Lord, didn't I receive water baptism, attend the church of Christ and do many wonderful works? That will be your defense? I will be saying, Lord, Lord didn't YOU die for my sins, were buried and rose again the third day to provide for me eternal life. (1 Corinthians 15:1-4) I trust in YOU as the ALL-sufficient means of my salvation.

I received Jesus Christ through faith several years ago late one Saturday night after diligently searching the scriptures and knew without a doubt that I had become born again that night, yet I was unable to receive water baptism until Sunday morning. I actually could not wait to get water baptized on Sunday morning and I even gave a 5 minute testimony just prior to receiving water baptism on how I was raised in the Roman Catholic church and had also temporarily attended the church of Christ and was taught the false doctrine of baptismal regeneration/remission/salvation by works, but now finally understand what it truly means to believe the gospel (Romans 1:16) and my life has been transformed ever since. Praise God!

1 John 5:11 - And this is the testimony: that God has given us eternal life, and this life is in His Son. 12 He who has the Son has life; he who does not have the Son of God does not have life. 13 These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, that you may know that you have eternal life, and that you may continue to believe in the name of the Son of God.

I don't have my mustard seed of faith meter.

Did you buy yours on Amazon?

Are they made in China specifically for Acts skippers?

 

[mailmandan]

I don't have my mustard seed of faith meter.

Did you buy yours on Amazon?

Are they made in China specifically for Acts skippers?

It's not about quantity of faith. It's about placing our faith in the right OBJECT and that would be JESUS CHRIST ALONE.
Acts skipper is a repeated straw man.

 

[Truther]

Dan, since you are a faith measurer, and every man is given by God the measure of faith,... is every man saved by faith alone or is there another kind of faith that saves which God gives as a particular kind?

 

[Truther]

It's not about quantity of faith. It's about placing our faith in the right OBJECT and that would be JESUS CHRIST ALONE.
Acts skipper is a repeated straw man.

But you think that some that proclaim faith to be baptized are faking, right?

If they fall, they were faking all along?

It is not how you finish, but how you start?

 

[Truther]

Dan, if the Pope says(confesses) that he believes in Jesus, is he automatically saved, even staying as he is?

 

[Truther]

Dan, the devils believe that Jesus is the son of God and this even makes them tremble.

Is this kind of faith a bit overboard to be saved by faith alone, or would they have to repent also if they could to be saved like humans?

 

[Truther]

I will be reflecting on Acts 10:43-47; 11:17,18; 15:8,9; 16:31; 26:18; Romans 1:16; 3:24-28; 4:5-6; 5:1 and numerous other passages of scripture which make it clear man is saved through faith and not by works when I exit this world. Either we are trusting 100% in Jesus Christ as the ALL-sufficient means of our salvation or else we are 100% lost.
I received Jesus Christ through faith several years ago late one Saturday night after diligently searching the scriptures and knew without a doubt that I had become born again that night, yet I was unable to receive water baptism until Sunday morning. I actually could not wait to get water baptized on Sunday morning and I even gave a 5 minute testimony just prior to receiving water baptism on how I was raised in the Roman Catholic church and had also temporarily attended the church of Christ and was taught the false doctrine of baptismal regeneration/remission/salvation by works, but now finally understand what it truly means to believe the gospel (Romans 1:16) and my life has been transformed ever since. Praise God!

You blew it....

16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned...

38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.


...you disobeyed Jesus and Peter.

You are not an Acts Christian, but a new age one.

 

[mailmandan]

Dan, since you are a faith measurer, and every man is given by God the measure of faith,... is every man saved by faith alone or is there another kind of faith that saves which God gives as a particular kind?

I don't personally measure everyone's faith and it's not about do I have enough faith but do I have the right kind of faith that trusts in Jesus Christ alone for salvation. (Romans 4:5-6; Ephesians 2:8,9) My faith trusts in Jesus Christ alone for salvation. You have demonstrated that your faith trusts in works for salvation (with a heavy emphasis on water baptism).

 

[mailmandan]

But you think that some that proclaim faith to be baptized are faking, right?

If they fall, they were faking all along?

It is not how you finish, but how you start?

There are people who receive water baptism who may sincerely believe they have sufficient faith, but may be sincerely wrong. Mere "mental assent" belief in Jesus and in historical facts about Jesus doesn't equate to saving faith in Christ. You can believe "mental assent" that the death, burial and resurrection of Christ "happened" (even the demons believe that) but if you are not TRUSTING in the death, burial and resurrection of Christ as the ALL-sufficient means of your salvation, then you don't have saving faith in Christ. Starting off on the wrong foot and finishing on the wrong foot profits nothing.

 

[mailmandan]

Dan, the devils believe that Jesus is the son of God and this even makes them tremble.

Is this kind of faith a bit overboard to be saved by faith alone, or would they have to repent also if they could to be saved like humans?

No and this straw man gets mentioned a lot by works-salvationists. In James 2:19, we see that the demons believe "mental assent" that "there is one God," but they do not believe in/have faith in/trust in/reliance in Jesus Christ for salvation. In other words, they do not believe in/on the Lord Jesus Christ (Acts 16:31) and are not saved. Their trust and reliance is in Satan, as demonstrated by their rebellion in heaven and continuous evil works.

 

[mailmandan]

You blew it....

16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned...

38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

...you disobeyed Jesus and Peter.

You are not an Acts Christian, but a new age one.

I blew nothing and this has been explained to you numerous times. I have not disobeyed Jesus or Peter. (John 3:15,16,18; 6:40,47; 11:25,26; Acts 10:43-47) You are a broken record of "baptized or condemned" and you continue to fail to properly harmonize scripture with scripture before reaching the proper conclusion on doctrine and there is a reason for that. Been there, done that so I understand why you are spiritually discerned.