For those who don't believe in prophets today....explain this

[justbyfaith]

I believe there is solid proof. But then again, I am faithful to my wife.

 

[justbyfaith]

but have we tested to see if the one message and several interpretations are the same in several groups?

Like I said, some who believe that they have the gift of interpretation in all reality do not. The real acid test of whether tongues are valid is if they are of the type spoken of in Acts of the Apostles 2:7-11 and if there is a repeat in modern circumstance of that kind of happening. And I have heard of cases like that. You can choose to disbelieve that all you want, and that is your prerogative. But I agree that we are getting nowhere; because it appears to me that you are not open to the truth of the matter.

 

[farouk]

Simply not true. Tongues by nature is speaking in a language foreign to the speaker's native language (Acts of the Apostles 2:7-11).



Their heart isn't right towards the Holy Spirit, although they may have mental assent to the tenets of the gospel. I believe that we were talking about this somewhere recently on these boards (whether in this thread or another), how mental assent to sound doctrine doesn't necessarily make you one of the elect.

Understanding does edify; incomprehensible sound does not.

 

[justbyfaith]

Understanding does edify; incomprehensible sound does not.

If you say so...

 

[farouk]

If you say so...

Paul says so...

 

[Dave L]

Like I said, some who believe that they have the gift of interpretation in all reality do not. The real acid test of whether tongues are valid is if they are of the type spoken of in Acts of the Apostles 2:7-11 and if there is a repeat in modern circumstance of that kind of happening. And I have heard of cases like that. You can choose to disbelieve that all you want, and that is your prerogative. But I agree that we are getting nowhere; because it appears to me that you are not open to the truth of the matter.

My experience is that tongues are not spontaneous today as thy were in Acts. But it is a learned and coached skill.

 

[justbyfaith]

If anyone speaks in an unknown tongue, he edifies himself.

re #423, #425.

But I am getting tired of arguing.

There will always be division in the church, is my conclusion; because some people are simply stubborn and do not want to see it the way the word of the Lord declares it. And also, those who have the truth are commanded not to strive and so we are prone to let people believe just what they want to after a season if there is no visible change of opinion.

 

[Dave L]

I believe there is solid proof. But then again, I am faithful to my wife.

I've never seen any proof while running in Charismatic circles.

 

[justbyfaith]

Suffice it to end with this: no one is going to convince me to stop praying in my own prayer language because I am commanded in scripture to continue in it.

 

[Willie T]

It seems to be the case at Pentecost.

Not at all. Two foreigners, probably communicating in Greek, which seems to have been universal in commerce, say to each other, "How is it that each of us hears what is being spoken in the native tongue of our own distant and separate lands?"

They would never have even considered such a question unless they BOTH had suddenly been surprised and shocked, and turned to one another, one saying "Hey! That dude is speaking in MY language".... while the other said, "No, he isn't, he is speaking in MY language!"

THEN, they would have asked the question recorded in Scripture.

 

[Dave L]

If anyone speaks in an unknown tongue, he edifies himself.

But I am getting tired of arguing.

There will always be division in the church, is my conclusion; because some people are simply stubborn and do not want to see it the way the word of the Lord declares it. And also, those who have the truth are commanded not to strive and so we are prone to let people believe just what they want to after a season if there is no visible change of opinion.

This is why there is division in the church.

 

[Dave L]

Not at all. Two foreigners, probably communicating in Greek, which seem so have been universal in commerce, say to each other, "How is it that each of us hears what is being spoken in the native tongue of our own distant and separate lands."

But Paul says;

“For he that speaketh in an unknown tongue speaketh not unto men, but unto God: for no man understandeth him; howbeit in the spirit he speaketh mysteries.” (1 Corinthians 14:2) (KJV 1900)

So what gives? The devout Jews also received the gift of interpretation.

 

[justbyfaith]

Not at all. Two foreigners, probably communicating in Greek, which seems to have been universal in commerce, say to each other, "How is it that each of us hears what is being spoken in the native tongue of our own distant and separate lands?"

Of course, there were approximately 13 different languages counted that the people were speaking in on the day of Pentecost.

 

[justbyfaith]

But Paul says;

“For he that speaketh in an unknown tongue speaketh not unto men, but unto God: for no man understandeth him; howbeit in the spirit he speaketh mysteries.” (1 Corinthians 14:2) (KJV 1900)

So what gives? The devout Jews also received the gift of interpretation.

I am bowing out of this conversation.

 

[Dave L]

Of course, there were approximately 13 different languages counted that the people were speaking in on the day of Pentecost.

It was probably one language all heard in their own native tongues through the gift of interpretation they also received.

 

[Dave L]

I am bowing out of this conversation.

Thanks for time well spent. It's good to move on and maybe take a fresh run at it later.

 

[justbyfaith]

This is why there is division in the church.

Then maybe division in the church is ordained by God. (since this was a different subject I felt liberty to comment).

 

[justbyfaith]

It was probably one language all heard in their own native tongues through the gift of interpretation they also received.

I can't resist this one...it was the people who were speaking in tongues on that day who had received the Holy Ghost for the first time dwelling in the upper room....those who heard them were not among them and therefore could not have had the gift of interpretation, since that was the first day that the Holy Spirit was ever poured out. I am surprised that you did not see that. It indicates to me that you are simply out to win an argument and are not looking at the information objectively.

 

[Dave L]

I can't resist this one...it was the people who were speaking in tongues on that day who had received the Holy Ghost for the first time dwelling in the upper room....those who heard them were not among them and therefore could not have had the gift of interpretation, since that was the first day that the Holy Spirit was ever poured out. I am surprised that you did not see that. It indicates to me that you are simply out to win an argument and are not looking at the information objectively.

Devout Jews = born again Jews who received the gift of interpretation. They were believers (had the Holy Spirit) because they asked Peter what should we do in Acts 2:37? Had they not believed, they would have probably become violent.

 

[ScottA]

You are covering in detail everything but the point of the conversation. Interpretation of scripture does not replace direct quotes.

Yes...I have covered it.

The point which seems to have escaped you, is that by those whom are the living in Christ, to whom He as returned, Christ is with us until the end of the age, during which time it is no longer we who are in Him who live, but Christ who lives in us. Which indeed means there are no more prophets because it is not a prophet who speaks, but Christ, whom continues the gift of prophecy to those of every generation. But then again, that is true of all prophets...which I would have to say is another point of confusion on your part - as you have been treating prophecy as men speaking, which is not true. In which case, I refer you to the old term: "man of God." Nonetheless, there are also false prophets, even as there were in the days of old. That is the way of the world.

So, no, just as there are no prophets of God except by the word of Christ, there are no interpretations except by those who are not in Him. As Jesus said, "We speak what we know." And yet for one who denies the very idea and has closed that door until what you have incorrectly understood to be the end...you are in no position to comment - to question, yes, but not to have authority. You are one guilty of interpretations based on your own understanding.

Keep knocking.